Dave Osborne
wibbled on Wednesday 14 July 2010 14:46

Tim Watts wrote:
stuart noble
wibbled on Wednesday 14 July 2010 10:36


And what do they have to do to be viewed as a ****? I trust wanting to
know how, and by whom, the item will be delivered doesn't count.

Certainly in the "old days" I've wasted a whole day waiting for a courier
who couldn't be arsed to even manage to give an AM vs PM slot.

First thing they need is a central common registry of generic recipient
instructions to leave the package with a neighbour, behind the plant,
local- ish communual drop point or return to depot.

Excellent data-mining opportunity for scumbags...

Wouldn't get my vote, I'm afraid.

Well, you don't *have to* use it. You could say the same about lots of
useful things like TPS/MPS etc.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

chris French
wibbled on Wednesday 14 July 2010 15:08


I guess the question is not so much can they do it - the technology is
already there of course, but is the extra costs (to the courier, the
supplier and hence the customer) worth it? But really, is all the
realtime tracking and stuff entirely necessary. Once the van has it's
load, then delivery times can be predicted. Though I'm guessing at least
some of the courier companies have GPS tracking stuff in the vans
already.

It would work better, but without it they could probably guess to the
nearest 2 hours which would be better than nothing.

Though I notice DPD seem to now have a system for a giving a 1 hour
window for delivery. We had something delivered by them recently and I
got an email in the morning at about 8 saying it would be delivered
between 09.53 and 10.53. Presumably once the vans load is allocated and
the route planned giving a 1 hour window isn't that hard to do, and for
most situations is plenty precise enough and will take account of most
traffic holdups. i don't know if they update the time at all,presumably
it's an extra cost option for the supplier? (this was an urgent
redelivery of an item which was ent out incorrectly the first time)

Like I said - all of them (bar DPD apparantly) are still wobbling around in
tar pits.

Once someone major does it for little extra cost, everyone else will start
doing it.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

stuart noble wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
stuart noble wrote:
geoff wrote:
In message %fW_n.157473$NM4.150841@hurricane, stuart noble
writes

My bits finally arrived yesterday morning. Ordered on Friday
morning, acknowledged and dispatched by Friday lunchtime, and in a
Jiffy bag. If RS had only done the sensible thing, and sent them
via Royal Mail, they would have arrived Saturday morning.
Wouldn't have mattered if it was a business or private address.
The postie could just have shoved the envelope through the letter
box. The post was here yesterday by 9am. DHL finally turned up
with my bits, at lunchtime. I was on the phone at the time, so
did not answer the door immediately. By the time I got there, the
guy was ready to leave a note, and take the package back away with
him. But why ? It was a Jiffy bag, addressed to the door that he
was standing at. And that door has a bloody great brass letterbox
by the side of it. It's just stuff like this that makes me wish
that there was still some common sense in the I'd like to see
the Post Office survive, which it won't, if all deliveries that
would most sensibly make use of it, are given to couriers.
Arfa

What ****es me off is not knowing whether a signature is going to
be required, and/or whether the package can be left with a
neighbour. Seems like the sender or the courier decides that with
no regard for the recipient's preferences.

Its quite simple - the recipient's preferences have nothing to do
with it as far as the courier is concerned

The contract is between the sender and the courier who needs to
have, if required by the sender, proof of delivery

I always get the customer to state that there will be someone at the
delivery address OR a contingency plan (e.g. leave in porch) if not.


Fine. I ask for no more than that. What I won't do is wait in all
day, or drive to some distant depot to collect, when I am quite
prepared to have it delivered a neighbour or left in the porch. If
the sender's arrangements with the courier are not sufficiently
flexible to accommodate my wishes, then I look elsewhere. If there's
no alternative, I have to put up with it, but it hasn't happened yet.

What every cutsomer wants, of course, is exactly the same as every
supplier wants: a parcel delivery service that delivers *intact*
parcels at whatever time of the day the person expecting them is in,
that is tracked to within 20 meters by GPS at all times, and costs
50P, and reaches every part of the world in 48 hours, without
attracting customs or requiring hours of form filling.

When you find such. let me know, and I will switch all of our
deliveries to it.

Meantime in the real world, its a total compromise. People want
tracking and signing, to know where there stuff is, and to know that
it has arrived, so they don't get claims against them for non
shipment. Yes, about 1% of customers do just that. Some want it
delivered to their homes, out of hours. Some want it delivered to
work, so their wives/husbands don't find out how much they have
spent..or what they have spent it on..and of course they want it for
peanuts.




.
All I ask is that suppliers give details of how the item will be
delivered before I place the order. Is that too much to ask?


Yes.

It is not possible to find out the best shipment method until you know
the weight, the physical size and the geographical location of the customer.

That is, essentially information that is 90% of what is in the order
itself.

As one who is partway through trying to write software to cover the
bases, its almost feckin' impossible.

Mots suppliers give up, and put one excessive charge to cover 90% of the
bases, and use one large but reliable and expensive supplier, to do the
shipping.

I don't blame them.

stuart noble wrote:
geoff wrote:
In message Ou%_n.142136$wi5.92064@hurricane, stuart noble
writes
Man at B&Q wrote:
On Jul 13, 3:11 pm, stuart noble wrote:
Man at B&Q wrote:
On Jul 13, 1:26 pm, stuart noble wrote:
So find out, rather than whinging about it here. Most courier firms
have a system of disclaimers that you have to fill in for
subsequent
deliveries. One (Either Fedex or UPS I believe) carry the forms
on the
van. It works for me.
It's not for me to "find out", it's up to the supplier to provide
details of the delivery method if he wants my business.
shrug
Shrug sums up the attitude of a lot of shortly to go out of business
companies.
Business has never been better.
MBQ

Could be better still if you got rid of the shrug.

No - there are some customers who it's just better to do without

its not always just about the money

If a customer insists on being a ****, I'm quite happy to tell them to
go elsewhere. Of course, that involves them finding the elusive
"elsewhere". They stand to lose out and I don't need the custom

And what do they have to do to be viewed as a ****?

Typically wants 24 hour signed for delivery to a place that has no one
at home IME ;-)



I trust wanting to
know how, and by whom, the item will be delivered doesn't count.

What's your postman's name then? we can put that on the
parcel.'Delivered to Prat, by Pat'

chris French wrote:


I guess the question is not so much can they do it - the technology is
already there of course, but is the extra costs (to the courier, the
supplier and hence the customer) worth it? But really, is all the
realtime tracking and stuff entirely necessary. Once the van has it's
load, then delivery times can be predicted.

Bull****.

Or at least the predictions are only as good as a long range weather
forecast.

Its when a package from New Mexico arrives 6 weeks later having gone via
Toronto that you begin to ask questions..

Though I'm guessing at least
some of the courier companies have GPS tracking stuff in the vans already.

Though I notice DPD seem to now have a system for a giving a 1 hour
window for delivery. We had something delivered by them recently and I
got an email in the morning at about 8 saying it would be delivered
between 09.53 and 10.53. Presumably once the vans load is allocated and
the route planned giving a 1 hour window isn't that hard to do, and for
most situations is plenty precise enough and will take account of most
traffic holdups.

Snow. Car crashes.

But te main reason for GPS is to make sure that the parcel returned to
depot with 'no one in' was actually taken to the adress, and the driver
wasn't having a knee trembler with his best mates ex in a Tesco car
park, instead.

i don't know if they update the time at all,presumably
it's an extra cost option for the supplier? (this was an urgent
redelivery of an item which was ent out incorrectly the first time)


Couriers are paid peanuts and behave like monkeys. That's the price you
pay for getting cheap delivery.

If you want better, pay 60 quid for uk, and about 250 quid europe, for a
man who collects and travels to the destination and guarantees its in
your greasy mitt before he goes home.

Snow. Car crashes.

But te main reason for GPS is to make sure that the parcel returned to
depot with 'no one in' was actually taken to the adress, and the driver
wasn't having a knee trembler with his best mates ex in a Tesco car
park, instead.

Gawd you do come up with some odd ******** NP!, if its a self respecting
White van man he'd have room in the back of his van with a comfy
mattress far more private too!....

A bit of silver foil over the GPS foils that too...
--
Tony Sayer

snip


OK. So here's today's one. Some more small parts ordered this time from
Farnell (no other stockist option). Order placed yesterday morning,
acknowledgement and dispatch verification emails received by early
afternoon. Parts arrived this morning, 9:45 am, in a Jiffy bag, through
my
letter box without needing a signature, and delivered by .....

TA-RA !! Royal Mail

So these places can do it if they try. That use of Royal Mail was not as
a
result of any special request by me, but clearly someone, somewhere in
their
dispatch department, determined that it was a better option, in this case
for this package, to use them over UPS. But all this actually serves to
tell us, is that they still have a Royal Mail collection, and have not
turned everything over to courier delivery despite how it appears, but
that
they actually have no logical or cohesive policy in place, as to which
service gets used by default, for which packages.

It's all to do with relative pricing structures of RM and courier,
together with the value of the consignment. Rapid do it by size and
weight. The limits used to be that if it was under 1kg in weight AND
worth less than £60 it went by first class post, otherwise by courier.
These quantities may have changed.

MBQ



Yes indeedy. That would be the logical way to do it, and I'm sure that it
was the way that Farnell did it not so many years back. Sadly, that is no
longer the case with them. Most of the parts that I order are low value and
low weight. usually transistors or chips for a specific job, and usually in
normal 'standard' ordering quantities. Sometimes they come by Royal Mail,
sometimes by Royal Mail Parcels, sometimes by UPS in a Jiffy bag, and
sometimes in a box the size of your head packed with plastic balloons or
polychips. You would have thought that in a fully computer controlled
warehouse system, it would be a trivial task for the picking computer to
make an order by order decision based on size, value, weight etc as to what
method of packing and shipping is to be used as most appropriate and cost
effective. It's very frustrating never knowing whether your half an ounce of
transistors are going to arrive first thing the next morning with the
postman, or anything up to 6pm the next day with a man in a big brown truck
with a signing-for thingy in his hand ... I've actually been caught out by
this a couple of times on urgent jobs, where I've assured the customer that
if I order the parts now, I'll have them first thing in the morning, and
their item should be ready for when they need it that afternoon. I know we
shouldn't do it, but sometimes, we all do, trying to help someone out or do
them a favour !

Arfa

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
chris French wrote:

I guess the question is not so much can they do it - the technology
is already there of course, but is the extra costs (to the courier,
the supplier and hence the customer) worth it? But really, is all
the realtime tracking and stuff entirely necessary. Once the van has
it's load, then delivery times can be predicted.

Bull****.

nope. Once it's in the delivery depot and they know which van it's going
out on and with other packages, they should be able to make a pretty
good stab at the delivery times. Then give a delivery window of an hour
or two to the recipient, which would be fine for most people I think.

Or at least the predictions are only as good as a long range weather
forecast.

You appear to be talking about something else.

what relevance has the long range weather forecast got to predicting
that day when a package that has arrived in the delivery depot and is
waiting to be dispatched should eb delivered?


Though I'm guessing at least
some of the courier companies have GPS tracking stuff in the vans already.
Though I notice DPD seem to now have a system for a giving a 1 hour
window for delivery. We had something delivered by them recently and I
got an email in the morning at about 8 saying it would be delivered
between 09.53 and 10.53. Presumably once the vans load is allocated
and the route planned giving a 1 hour window isn't that hard to do,
and for most situations is plenty precise enough and will take
account of most traffic holdups.

Snow. Car crashes.

Yup there are various things that might screw it up but I'm not talking
time to the minute delivery here. Wide enough delivery window would
probably cover most things causing short to moderate delays. For those
situations where there is a major delay some sort of system for sending
out texts to customers wouldn't be difficult.

i don't know if they update the time at all,presumably
it's an extra cost option for the supplier? (this was an urgent
redelivery of an item which was ent out incorrectly the first time)


Couriers are paid peanuts and behave like monkeys. That's the price you
pay for getting cheap delivery.

Actually, I've no real complaints about the drivers we get on the whole,
this has got more to do with the systems that are used.


If I want a more guaranteed service i can pay for it, but we were
really talking about that, just a system that could give you an idea of
when a parcel will arrive so as not having to wait in all day when the
parcel is not going to arrive until mid afternooon.

I reckon in a few years time, it's be a pretty standard thing.
--
Chris French

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
stuart noble wrote:
geoff wrote:
In message Ou%_n.142136$wi5.92064@hurricane, stuart noble
writes
Man at B&Q wrote:
On Jul 13, 3:11 pm, stuart noble wrote:
Man at B&Q wrote:
On Jul 13, 1:26 pm, stuart noble wrote:
So find out, rather than whinging about it here. Most courier
firms
have a system of disclaimers that you have to fill in for
subsequent
deliveries. One (Either Fedex or UPS I believe) carry the forms
on the
van. It works for me.
It's not for me to "find out", it's up to the supplier to provide
details of the delivery method if he wants my business.
shrug
Shrug sums up the attitude of a lot of shortly to go out of
business
companies.
Business has never been better.
MBQ

Could be better still if you got rid of the shrug.

No - there are some customers who it's just better to do without

its not always just about the money

If a customer insists on being a ****, I'm quite happy to tell them
to go elsewhere. Of course, that involves them finding the elusive
"elsewhere". They stand to lose out and I don't need the custom

And what do they have to do to be viewed as a ****?

Typically wants 24 hour signed for delivery to a place that has no one
at home IME ;-)



I trust wanting to know how, and by whom, the item will be delivered
doesn't count.

What's your postman's name then? we can put that on the
parcel.'Delivered to Prat, by Pat'

Very droll but hardly constructive

In message
, Man
at B&Q writes
On Jul 13, 7:54*pm, geoff wrote:
In message %fW_n.157473$NM4.150841@hurricane, stuart noble
writes





My bits finally arrived yesterday morning. Ordered on Friday morning,
acknowledged and dispatched by Friday lunchtime, and in a Jiffy bag.
If *RS had only done the sensible thing, and sent them via Royal Mail,
they *would have arrived Saturday morning. Wouldn't have mattered if
it was a *business or private address. The postie could just have
shoved the *envelope through the letter box. The post was here
yesterday by 9am. DHL *finally turned up with my bits, at lunchtime. I
was on the phone at the *time, so did not answer the door immediately.
By the time I got there, *the guy was ready to leave a note, and take
the package back away with him. But why ? It was a Jiffy bag,
addressed to the door that he was *standing at. And that door has a
bloody great brass letterbox by the *side of it. It's just stuff like
this that makes me wish that there was *still some common sense in the
I'd like to see *the Post Office survive, which it won't, if all
deliveries that would *most sensibly make use of it, are given to
couriers.
*Arfa

What ****es me off is not knowing whether a signature is going to be
required, and/or whether the package can be left with a neighbour.
Seems like the sender or the courier decides that with no regard for
the recipient's preferences.

Its quite simple - the recipient's preferences have nothing to do with
it as far as the courier is concerned

Quite simply wrong. At least two courier companies follow *my* written
instructions as to what to do when no one is in.

So, if the sender states that the consignment is to be signed for (the
default condition) and the courier follows the recipient's instructions
and the consignment goes astray ...

The courier is liable


--
geoff

In message Fpf%n.241695$w51.30423@hurricane, Arfa Daily
writes


"stuart noble" wrote in message
news:Gul_n.148475$_F1.11776@hurricane...
geoff wrote:
In message kOj_n.156784$tH4.149064@hurricane, stuart noble
writes
tony sayer wrote:
All of the component companies have always done nonsense like
that, but I think that is more down to the morons employed in
dispatch, rather than company policy. RS, and Farnell for that
matter, used to send out small items by Royal Mail, in a Jiffy
bag, by default, and for the most part, the bits arrived in the
post, at a predictable time, the next morning when you needed them, and undamaged.
Couldn't agree more with you Arfa totally on the nail;!...

The shipping policies that both of these companies have now, for
the most part preclude this ever happening any more, and it is
unhelpful to all concerned, including them, because if I can find
an alternative supplier for my orders each time, who will ship
them Royal Mail, then they will get the order, irrespective of
whether they are a few pennies dearer, or charge for shipping.
Yes you can tell them that, but the reply usually is Oh' dear!,
your the
only one who's had that problem/complained;(...

If a company, large or small, can't muster the resources to send
something out by first class post, they're probably not very
resourceful in other areas of their business either.

Simply not true

I don't use the postal service because there is no "buck stops here"
person I can get straight through to and deal with

If I send out to a customer with royal mail and it disappears, they
don't want to freeze to death for 30 days while waiting to see if
itr has turned up.

I need to be dealing with companies who can deal with problems
quickly and efficiently

In the winter, we are flat out working, there is no mileage to be
gained in saving a customer maybe a couple of quid at a cost to us
of probably £50 or more

I think you need to reassess your idea of how companies function


But we're talking here about offering customers the option of sending
small, probably low cost, components out by post. If somebody's boiler
pcb gets lost, that's another matter and, as you say, it isn't worth
trying to save a couple of quid.

OK. So here's today's one. Some more small parts ordered this time from
Farnell (no other stockist option). Order placed yesterday morning,
acknowledgement and dispatch verification emails received by early
afternoon. Parts arrived this morning, 9:45 am, in a Jiffy bag, through
my letter box without needing a signature, and delivered by .....

TA-RA !! Royal Mail

So these places can do it if they try. That use of Royal Mail was not
as a result of any special request by me,

Fine - until it goes wrong

As I said, give me a direct line to a "buck stops here" person who can
sort the problem straight away

Royal Mail can't do that




--
geoff

In message , geoff
writes

As I said, give me a direct line to a "buck stops here" person who can
sort the problem straight away

Royal Mail can't do that

RM can, and do. However, a BIG fuss is required. OK, I realise that it
should not be that way - you should not have to make a fuss to get to
the person who can make things happen. However, that is life, sadly.
--
Graeme, sub postmaster.

In message , Tim Watts
writes

First thing they need is a central common registry of generic recipient
instructions to leave the package with a neighbour, behind the plant,

The big problem there, is what happens, and who pays, when things go
wrong? Many of you know I'm a sub postmaster, with a small, local
delivery office. Six postal rounds, rural area, fifty miles by ten.
Many people leave 'standard instructions' with the postie. I'm not in?
Leave it in the shed/behind the freezer/in the conservatory/porch/or
wherever. Postie follows instructions, and item is not there when
customer returns home. Then the sh*t hits the fan, and guess who is to
blame? Posties are not supposed to leave things, and could be fired for
doing so, yet they go out of their way to help customers, day in, day
out. Seriously. Keep in mind this is a rural area, almost everyone
knows everyone else, they're all great pals until something goes wrong.

What would YOU do, if postie followed your instructions (verbal only, of
course), and a parcel disappeared?
--
Graeme, NE Scotland

In message , Graeme
writes
In message , geoff
writes

As I said, give me a direct line to a "buck stops here" person who can
sort the problem straight away

Royal Mail can't do that

RM can, and do.

No they can't

The principle and practice diverge from the moment you dial

Actually getting through is the first sticking point - If you have time
enough to wait until you finally get through (which I don't - it's
taking up valuable contact time with the phone engaged), you end up with
some bint on the other end of the phone who tells you that if it doesn't
turn up in 30 days, fill in this form.

Sorry, I'd rather use a company with a more professional approach


However, a BIG fuss is required. OK, I realise that it should not be
that way - you should not have to make a fuss to get to the person who
can make things happen. However, that is life, sadly.

--
geoff

In message , geoff
writes
In message , Graeme
writes

RM can, and do.

No they can't

Yes, they can. You give up too easily. Pointless phoning the national
'helpline', where, as you say, some bint will tell you to fill in a
form. Phone the local depot and raise hell until the manager speaks to
you. Get his name and number, for future reference.
--
Graeme

In message , Graeme
writes
In message , geoff
writes
In message , Graeme
writes

RM can, and do.

No they can't

Yes, they can. You give up too easily. Pointless phoning the national
'helpline', where, as you say, some bint will tell you to fill in a
form. Phone the local depot and raise hell until the manager speaks to
you. Get his name and number, for future reference.

Usually either engaged or not answered. When I've been down the local
sorting office, I see them sitting around, the phone ringing, and nobody
answering

excuse me, it's not a matter of giving up too easily, I'm not in the
business of sitting on a phone waiting. All the time I spend tied up on
the phone is time spent not answering customers

The post office just isn't up to the standard I need



--
geoff

We have company Blackberries . One went faulty and was exchnaged
under warranty
UPS were instructed to do a swap out.
Their agency driver did not collect the broken phone.

Next UPS send a letter which is delayed for 3 weeks by RM as UPS did
not put enough postage on and which we had to pay £1.10 to receive.
( you might think someone who runs a business delivering post ought
to know better!)

This letter states that they tried to collect three times which I
suspect is a lie as we are in a business center with excelent
reception who really care about us ( He meant the driver did not leave
his van. Predictabily when I drilled down to what was on the logs
these were unavailable)

They then go on to tell us that if we fail to contact them then they
will treat this as theft and call the police ( this is the first
letter they are sending bear in mind).

I have informed the phone network that these jokers after acting so
incompetantly then treat the networks customers as dishonest and call
them thieves
.. I shudder to think about subcontaractors behaving like this to my
customers

I am struggling to understand why UPS did not write a polite letter
asking us to call as they had been unable to contact us
I suspect that after the phone call I made to the man who sent the
letter he will do it properly next time
Kind Regards

geoff wrote:
In message , Graeme
writes
In message , geoff
writes
In message , Graeme
writes

RM can, and do.

No they can't

Yes, they can. You give up too easily. Pointless phoning the
national 'helpline', where, as you say, some bint will tell you to
fill in a form. Phone the local depot and raise hell until the
manager speaks to you. Get his name and number, for future reference.

Usually either engaged or not answered. When I've been down the local
sorting office, I see them sitting around, the phone ringing, and nobody
answering

excuse me, it's not a matter of giving up too easily, I'm not in the
business of sitting on a phone waiting. All the time I spend tied up on
the phone is time spent not answering customers

The post office just isn't up to the standard I need



Horses for courses. If I were returning somebody's boiler pcb, I would
do exactly as you do. However, if I were sending out memory sticks at a
tenner a time I would use RM and run the risk of the odd one going astray.