Arfa Daily wrote:
"PeterC" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 19:24:23 +0100, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Well, I hope to have the same pleasure on Tuesday! Got p'd off with
the Powercraft jigsaw (it needs a guide dog) wandering around and
cutting random slopes, so ordered a Makita 720W from Axminster
(£12 cheaper than TS) as it gets good reviews.

Its a jigsaw Jim, but not as we know it. You are in for a major
treat :-)

:-)) I've stopped work on the loft until the new jigsaw arrives, so
that I
can have fun!
The cheapo was OK for quick jobs where just a rough cut was needed,
but a handsaw is much better!
Circular saw next, methinks.
--
Peter.


Interestingly, although I have absolutely nothing good to say about
my B&D jigsaw, my B&D 1200 watt circular saw is an excellent
performer, and does exactly what it says on the can. Funny how they
can make one tool that's very good for the money, and another that is
expensive junk !

I think that applies to all makes. Even a cheapo circular saw works pretty
well, but you have to pay top money for a decent jigsaw.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

John Rumm wrote:
On 21/06/2010 13:46, dennis@home wrote:

IME jigsaws don't cut much faster than a hand saw and that takes
about 35 seconds to cut 8x2.

Which shows your experience is of the typical DIY shed jigsaw and
nothing more. Kind of makes this discussion pointless.

Have a look at the video link I posted to see what you have been
missing.

I should add that the video isn't doctored at all, I have that model & they
really do cut that well.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 03:33:15 -0500, TheOldFellow wrote:
Agree completely. B&D have always been very variable.

Seconded. I had a cheapo B&D jigsaw back in Blighty that did suprisingly
well for itself. Then I bought a cheapo B&D when I moved to the US, and
the thing is total and utter crud (I still have it but only use it when I
need to make quick, crappy cuts on something and it happens to be within
arms reach - otherwise I would have given it some form of interesting
death a long time ago).

Maybe it's an age thing, and the "old + cheap" ones are vastly superior
to the "new + cheap" ones (certainly the more recent US one had plastic
components for the sole plate's bevel - which naturally wore out within a
few months; forget making a 90 degree cut with the thing!).

cheers

Jules

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 15:23:49 -0700, Andy Dingley wrote:
Toy of choice these days is one of the several CNC mills between us. I'd
have a Cupcake 3D printer too, if only they'd get their finger out and
ship it.

Mmmm, cupcakes...

*salivates*

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:29:45 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
So you don't even have one, but you'll gob off about how useless they
are.

I didn't say I hadn't used one.
They are useless.
Nearly everything can be done more easily with something else.

Actually, I would be tempted to agree with that - but "nearly" is the
important part; the number of DIY jobs that benefit from power tools is
vast, so "nearly" still covers quite a few of them.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 21/06/2010 13:46, dennis@home wrote:

IME jigsaws don't cut much faster than a hand saw and that takes about
35 seconds to cut 8x2.

Which shows your experience is of the typical DIY shed jigsaw and nothing
more. Kind of makes this discussion pointless.

Have a look at the video link I posted to see what you have been missing.

I have looked and I don't think the video is very good.
They don't attempt to follow a line but just shove it about at random in
what looks like a low density board not a high density board (it has big
chips). I would say its not very informative from a product point of view.

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:53:05 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:
a chocolate tool set;

But no bleedin' angle grinder or pressure washer!?

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 21/06/2010 20:02, dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 21/06/2010 13:46, dennis@home wrote:

IME jigsaws don't cut much faster than a hand saw and that takes about
35 seconds to cut 8x2.

Which shows your experience is of the typical DIY shed jigsaw and
nothing more. Kind of makes this discussion pointless.

Have a look at the video link I posted to see what you have been
missing.

I have looked and I don't think the video is very good.
They don't attempt to follow a line but just shove it about at random in
what looks like a low density board not a high density board (it has big

Shifting argument again Dennis?

You introduced the video.
If you don't want me to comment on it don't introduce it.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...


You introduced the video.

To demonstrate your claims of 35 seconds to make an 8" cut were complete
cobblers. Job done.

But you haven't done any such thing.
You have shown a video where a cut was made in about twice the time you said
it took and in an unknown material.


If you don't want me to comment on it don't introduce it.

Comment all you like. However since you by your own admission have only
used a crap jigsaw, and believe them to be useless, your comments are of
limited interest or relevance.

You have no idea what jigsaws I have used other than the fact I think they
are cr@p.
Even I don't know what some of them as I didn't take any notice of what
they were.

We may as well agree to disagree as it is obviously down to what you use
them for.

PS. zip saws and good routers cut sink top holes rather well.

dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...


You introduced the video.

To demonstrate your claims of 35 seconds to make an 8" cut were
complete cobblers. Job done.

But you haven't done any such thing.
You have shown a video where a cut was made in about twice the time you
said it took and in an unknown material.


If you don't want me to comment on it don't introduce it.

Comment all you like. However since you by your own admission have
only used a crap jigsaw, and believe them to be useless, your comments
are of limited interest or relevance.

You have no idea what jigsaws I have used other than the fact I think
they are cr@p.
Even I don't know what some of them as I didn't take any notice of what
they were.

We may as well agree to disagree as it is obviously down to what you use
them for.

PS. zip saws and good routers cut sink top holes rather well.

But I'd rather freehand a jigsaw than a router.
I've owned a decent jigsaw for well over 30 years, and I can't recall a
job where it wasn't used at some point.

On 21 June, 13:29, "dennis@home"
wrote:

Classic andy assumes that because someone doesn't own a piece of sh!t like a
jigsaw they haven't used one.

So far we know that you've used one bad jigsaw, haven't used a good
one, and you think they're all that bad.

I rest my case...

dennis@home wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...


You introduced the video.

To demonstrate your claims of 35 seconds to make an 8" cut were
complete cobblers. Job done.

But you haven't done any such thing.
You have shown a video where a cut was made in about twice the time
you said it took and in an unknown material.


If you don't want me to comment on it don't introduce it.

Comment all you like. However since you by your own admission have
only used a crap jigsaw, and believe them to be useless, your
comments are of limited interest or relevance.

You have no idea what jigsaws I have used other than the fact I think
they are cr@p.
Even I don't know what some of them as I didn't take any notice of
what they were.

We may as well agree to disagree as it is obviously down to what you
use them for.

PS. zip saws and good routers cut sink top holes rather well.

And shower sawdust everywhere. And need multiple passes. And use expensive
cutters.

You have clearly never used a decent jigsaw.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...


You introduced the video.

To demonstrate your claims of 35 seconds to make an 8" cut were complete
cobblers. Job done.

But you haven't done any such thing.
You have shown a video where a cut was made in about twice the time you said
it took and in an unknown material.


If you don't want me to comment on it don't introduce it.

Comment all you like. However since you by your own admission have only
used a crap jigsaw, and believe them to be useless, your comments are of
limited interest or relevance.

You have no idea what jigsaws I have used other than the fact I think they
are cr@p.
Even I don't know what some of them as I didn't take any notice of what
they were.

We may as well agree to disagree as it is obviously down to what you use
them for.

PS. zip saws and good routers cut sink top holes rather well.

In order to prevent any chance of the bit snapping you'd need a 12mm dia
cutter minimum on the router. Unless you're going to make multiple passes.

Quite how removing 12mm of material with a router as against 0.75mm of material
with a jigsaw can be seen as more efficient either in terms of the energy
used or the amount of waste generated is something even you couldn't
argue your way out of.

As to sink cutouts and similar, its fairly obvious you've never had to cut out
too many square inside corners in your time. For which the jigsaw is the only
tool for the job.

As it happens all the jigsaws I've ever come across have far too small a base
plate for accurate work. Although as supplied they're the best tool available
for quick reducing jobs.

Wider baseplates are easily knocked up out of ply. An advantage of mild steel
baseplates is that they're easy to drill. Two holes one front, one back, no need
for any great accuracy as the ply base is cut to fit. So drill two holes in
the baseplate. Then using the baseplate a template, drill two holes in a suitable
piece of ply, plus further holes for the blade and for access to any adjustement
screws. Countersink the holes in the ply, mount it on the baseplate and
draw around the baseplate. Remove the ply and then draw lines parallel to
the drawn baseplate lines according to how wide you want the base. At this stage
by measuring from the blade to the edge of the baseplate you could also determine
a specific offset at the side and front if required. The one illustrated is 44
side, 60 front. Having a wider baseplate makes checking the blade angle a lot
simpler as well (3). Its then a piece of cake to run up a template to accomodate
inside angles with the correct offset at the side and front for each cut.(4)

http://i47.tinypic.com/2ijrc0j.jpg


michael adams

michael adams wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...


You introduced the video.

To demonstrate your claims of 35 seconds to make an 8" cut were
complete cobblers. Job done.

But you haven't done any such thing.
You have shown a video where a cut was made in about twice the time
you said it took and in an unknown material.


If you don't want me to comment on it don't introduce it.

Comment all you like. However since you by your own admission have
only used a crap jigsaw, and believe them to be useless, your
comments are of limited interest or relevance.

You have no idea what jigsaws I have used other than the fact I
think they are cr@p.
Even I don't know what some of them as I didn't take any notice of
what they were.

We may as well agree to disagree as it is obviously down to what you
use them for.

PS. zip saws and good routers cut sink top holes rather well.

In order to prevent any chance of the bit snapping you'd need a 12mm
dia
cutter minimum on the router. Unless you're going to make multiple
passes.

Quite how removing 12mm of material with a router as against 0.75mm
of material with a jigsaw can be seen as more efficient either in
terms of the energy
used or the amount of waste generated is something even you couldn't
argue your way out of.

As to sink cutouts and similar, its fairly obvious you've never had
to cut out too many square inside corners in your time. For which the
jigsaw is the only tool for the job.

As it happens all the jigsaws I've ever come across have far too
small a base plate for accurate work. Although as supplied they're
the best tool available for quick reducing jobs.

The B&Q cheapy in the pictures isn't a decent jigsaw. Makita/Blue Bosch
have baseplates large enough for any job.

Wider baseplates are easily knocked up out of ply.

You do like making work for yourself don't you?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"michael adams" wrote in message
...


As to sink cutouts and similar, its fairly obvious you've never had to cut
out
too many square inside corners in your time. For which the jigsaw is the
only
tool for the job.

Actually I plunge a circular saw in and do the straight bits and then finish
them with a hand saw.
Never done one with a jigsaw as the last one I tried was pathetic, some Bosh
muck I think.
I also tried someone's battery jigsaw and that was even worse, a charged
battery lasted about a foot.

If I want to rough out a hole I have a sabre saw that is pretty quick
although, for me, its really a chain saw substitute.

Not that I do many sinks, I have done more hobs than sinks.

You can also do worktop joins with a circular saw that just don't work with
jigsaws of any sort that I have seen.
I guess when they are good enough to do joinery they will be good enough to
buy.


As it happens all the jigsaws I've ever come across have far too small a
base
plate for accurate work. Although as supplied they're the best tool
available
for quick reducing jobs.

Wider baseplates are easily knocked up out of ply. An advantage of mild
steel
baseplates is that they're easy to drill. Two holes one front, one back,
no need
for any great accuracy as the ply base is cut to fit. So drill two holes
in
the baseplate. Then using the baseplate a template, drill two holes in a
suitable
piece of ply, plus further holes for the blade and for access to any
adjustement
screws. Countersink the holes in the ply, mount it on the baseplate and
draw around the baseplate. Remove the ply and then draw lines parallel to
the drawn baseplate lines according to how wide you want the base. At this
stage
by measuring from the blade to the edge of the baseplate you could also
determine
a specific offset at the side and front if required. The one illustrated
is 44
side, 60 front. Having a wider baseplate makes checking the blade angle a
lot
simpler as well (3). Its then a piece of cake to run up a template to
accomodate
inside angles with the correct offset at the side and front for each
cut.(4)

http://i47.tinypic.com/2ijrc0j.jpg

That sounds like it might be useful if I ever feel the need to buy a jigsaw.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember robgraham
saying something like:

Parkside, which means it's Aldis.

No, the other one.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "dennis@home"
saying something like:

I didn't say I hadn't used one.
They are useless.

Not for cutting the tops off barrels.
Not for cutting out any and sundry things.
I bought a DeWalt (a proper one, not the recent stuff) jigsaw some years
ago and it's still a pleasure to use. The only mistake I made with that
one was buying the 110V version as I had some site work on the go.
Still, lugging a transformer is a small price to pay for the excellence
of the tool.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "dennis@home"
saying something like:

Actually I plunge a circular saw in

Dangerous.

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 20:36:24 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember robgraham
saying something like:

Parkside, which means it's Aldis.

No, the other one.

Aldi's are Powercraft.
Getting back upthread a bit, the Makita arrived yesterday. Haven't used it
much (too hot to work in the loft) but so far it's a good'un.
Bit disappointed at lack of a guide; also the extraction coupling's
non-standard - presumably for a Makita vac. I bought a Nilfisk 25-21 last
week; it has a PTO socket and I've just found a length of rubber pipe of
the OD/ID to join the two :-)

BTW, called in TBS (Towcester Building Supplies) today and the place now
specialises in Makita and the prices are on a par with TS and SF (and are
negotiable). Only 7 miles away and don't have to wait in for a carrier to
(not) call.
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.

"PeterC" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 20:36:24 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember robgraham
saying something like:

Parkside, which means it's Aldis.

No, the other one.

Aldi's are Powercraft.
Getting back upthread a bit, the Makita arrived yesterday. Haven't used it
much (too hot to work in the loft) but so far it's a good'un.
Bit disappointed at lack of a guide; also the extraction coupling's
non-standard - presumably for a Makita vac. I bought a Nilfisk 25-21 last
week; it has a PTO socket and I've just found a length of rubber pipe of
the OD/ID to join the two :-)

BTW, called in TBS (Towcester Building Supplies) today and the place now
specialises in Makita and the prices are on a par with TS and SF (and are
negotiable). Only 7 miles away and don't have to wait in for a carrier to
(not) call.
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.

Towcester ? Blimey! You must be right on my doorstep. You show me your
Makita, and I'll show you my Bosch (c/w laser guide) :-)

Arfa

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 00:57:17 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

"PeterC" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 20:36:24 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember robgraham
saying something like:

Parkside, which means it's Aldis.

No, the other one.

Aldi's are Powercraft.
Getting back upthread a bit, the Makita arrived yesterday. Haven't used it
much (too hot to work in the loft) but so far it's a good'un.
Bit disappointed at lack of a guide; also the extraction coupling's
non-standard - presumably for a Makita vac. I bought a Nilfisk 25-21 last
week; it has a PTO socket and I've just found a length of rubber pipe of
the OD/ID to join the two :-)

BTW, called in TBS (Towcester Building Supplies) today and the place now
specialises in Makita and the prices are on a par with TS and SF (and are
negotiable). Only 7 miles away and don't have to wait in for a carrier to
(not) call.
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.

Towcester ? Blimey! You must be right on my doorstep. You show me your
Makita, and I'll show you my Bosch (c/w laser guide) :-)

Arfa

Huh! No laser guide either, but the one on the Powercraft is slightly
inebriated.
I'm in Ashton (aka Makita Country).

Apart from Festool, which are silly prices, my preference is for blue Bosch
and Makita. The other expensive makes, such as Metabo, I know nothing
about.
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.

"PeterC" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 00:57:17 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

"PeterC" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 20:36:24 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember robgraham
saying something like:

Parkside, which means it's Aldis.

No, the other one.

Aldi's are Powercraft.
Getting back upthread a bit, the Makita arrived yesterday. Haven't used
it
much (too hot to work in the loft) but so far it's a good'un.
Bit disappointed at lack of a guide; also the extraction coupling's
non-standard - presumably for a Makita vac. I bought a Nilfisk 25-21
last
week; it has a PTO socket and I've just found a length of rubber pipe of
the OD/ID to join the two :-)

BTW, called in TBS (Towcester Building Supplies) today and the place now
specialises in Makita and the prices are on a par with TS and SF (and
are
negotiable). Only 7 miles away and don't have to wait in for a carrier
to
(not) call.
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.

Towcester ? Blimey! You must be right on my doorstep. You show me your
Makita, and I'll show you my Bosch (c/w laser guide) :-)

Arfa

Huh! No laser guide either, but the one on the Powercraft is slightly
inebriated.
I'm in Ashton (aka Makita Country).

Apart from Festool, which are silly prices, my preference is for blue
Bosch
and Makita. The other expensive makes, such as Metabo, I know nothing
about.
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.

Ah ! 10 minutes away. I'm t'other side of the valley in 'Barton :-)

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
news:HRqTn.40229$OF3.7996@hurricane...
A while ago, I had a cry on here about how incredibly ****-poor the
performance was, of the expensive Black and Decker jigsaw that I bought to
replace my cheap as chips B&D that I had had for years. The new one
couldn't be made to cut a straight line in anything tougher than cardboard,
if your life depended on it. In the couple of years that I have had it, it
has caused me to bodge more jobs than I have in the rest of my entire
(quite long so far) life.

A few months back, my daughter bought her husband a Bosch jigsaw, and I
have hated him for owning it ever since ! On the couple of occasions that
I've had cause to use it, I have bleated loudly about how rubbish my B&D
is in comparison.

Well, today, it was apparently father's day. I had completely forgotten
this, so imagine my delight, when in came number one daughter, with a
shiny new Bosch jigsaw in her hand just for little old me ! What a result.
I even had cause to use it on today's job, and what a pleasure it is to
handle. It cut through the wood in a dead straight line - and I haven't
even tried out the laser guide on it yet - and was totally effortless to
control. Deep joy, as Stanley Unwin used to say. I know it's sad getting
worked up about a power tool, but I do so unashamedly. Bosch tools it is
for me, from now on :-)

What model?

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 09:11:25 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

Towcester ? Blimey! You must be right on my doorstep. You show me your
Makita, and I'll show you my Bosch (c/w laser guide) :-)

Arfa

Huh! No laser guide either, but the one on the Powercraft is slightly
inebriated.
I'm in Ashton (aka Makita Country).

Apart from Festool, which are silly prices, my preference is for blue
Bosch
and Makita. The other expensive makes, such as Metabo, I know nothing
about.
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.

Ah ! 10 minutes away. I'm t'other side of the valley in 'Barton :-)

Arfa

10 minutes for you; bit longer on me bike! (I wouldn't use the Nene Valley
Way).
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.

"brass monkey" wrote in message
...

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
news:HRqTn.40229$OF3.7996@hurricane...
A while ago, I had a cry on here about how incredibly ****-poor the
performance was, of the expensive Black and Decker jigsaw that I bought to
replace my cheap as chips B&D that I had had for years. The new one
couldn't be made to cut a straight line in anything tougher than
cardboard, if your life depended on it. In the couple of years that I have
had it, it has caused me to bodge more jobs than I have in the rest of my
entire (quite long so far) life.

A few months back, my daughter bought her husband a Bosch jigsaw, and I
have hated him for owning it ever since ! On the couple of occasions that
I've had cause to use it, I have bleated loudly about how rubbish my B&D
is in comparison.

Well, today, it was apparently father's day. I had completely forgotten
this, so imagine my delight, when in came number one daughter, with a
shiny new Bosch jigsaw in her hand just for little old me ! What a
result. I even had cause to use it on today's job, and what a pleasure it
is to handle. It cut through the wood in a dead straight line - and I
haven't even tried out the laser guide on it yet - and was totally
effortless to control. Deep joy, as Stanley Unwin used to say. I know
it's sad getting worked up about a power tool, but I do so unashamedly.
Bosch tools it is for me, from now on :-)

What model?



PST 800 X-CL

Arfa