Hi,

I would like to put a gate across the passage that leads to our
garden. I would like a solid "door style" gate, about 3'3" wide and 6'
tall.

I know you use a Z shape brace on the back to hold it all together but
do you just butt the planks together or is it better to use tongued
and grooved wood? Would you glue them or would nails/bolts be enough?

I know 18mm T&G is readily available and often used as floorboards; is
T&G available in thicker sizes?

What's the best way to mount it? Onto a stout fence post?

What is the best way to lock it shut? Would you use a padlocked bolt
or could you somehow incorporate a mortice lock?

BTW would you cramp the wood together whilst the glue sets and if so,
is it worth paying for Irwin cramps? They seem to cost twice as much
as the other makes. Are they worth the extra or are you just paying
for the name?

TIA

Fred wrote:
Hi,

I would like to put a gate across the passage that leads to our
garden. I would like a solid "door style" gate, about 3'3" wide and 6'
tall.

I know you use a Z shape brace on the back to hold it all together but
do you just butt the planks together or is it better to use tongued
and grooved wood? Would you glue them or would nails/bolts be enough?


Glue is almost useless outdoors. The wood swells enough to split either
the joint, or the wood.

Galv screws or bolts are the way to go.


I know 18mm T&G is readily available and often used as floorboards; is
T&G available in thicker sizes?


get it made up. I use 19mm 'charcter' (=full of knots and ****) oak for
this sort of thing, to 'door kit' specification.

What's the best way to mount it? Onto a stout fence post?


yes. agricultural suppliers will have this sort of think ready made.


What is the best way to lock it shut? Would you use a padlocked bolt
or could you somehow incorporate a mortice lock?


Padlock is better if you think someone really wants to get in. Mortice
will shatter the wood with a jemmy quite easily.

BTW would you cramp the wood together whilst the glue sets and if so,
is it worth paying for Irwin cramps? They seem to cost twice as much
as the other makes. Are they worth the extra or are you just paying
for the name?


You dont glue and its pointless crampimg.

Simply make up (preferably) a morticed Z-frame doweled together if
possible rather than screwed..lasts a bit longer - and screw from the
back into the actual boards. I tend to use oak plugs in sunken screw
holes to get rid of teh heads.

If you don't want gaps appearing use T & G, otherwise just butt.

Trim final door to size after construction, and for outdoors completely
coat it in something weatherproof several times over.

Most cheap softwopd outdoor gates would be something like 15mm pine on a
30mm frame.

I use 19mm oak on 30mm oak frame. Looks much better.

google is your friend to find hinges and latcches etc.



TIA

On Jun 17, 1:10*pm, Fred wrote:
Hi,

I would like to put a gate across the passage that leads to our
garden. I would like a solid "door style" gate, about 3'3" wide and 6'
tall.

I know you use a Z shape brace on the back to hold it all together but
do you just butt the planks together or is it better to use tongued
and grooved wood?

T&G prevents gaps opening up between the planks, and it restrains them
if one warps. It also encourages rot.


Would you glue them or would nails/bolts be enough?

as TNP said forget glue. Bolts are more secure than screws are more
secure than nails.


I know 18mm T&G is readily available and often used as floorboards; is
T&G available in thicker sizes?

What's the best way to mount it? Onto a stout fence post?

that works.

What is the best way to lock it shut? Would you use a padlocked bolt
or could you somehow incorporate a mortice lock?

2 locking points if youre serious about it staying locked. Pointy
bits above to discourage climbing. I'd hate to be relying on a garden
gate for security though.


NT

On 17 June, 13:50, NT wrote:
On Jun 17, 1:10*pm, Fred wrote:

Hi,

I would like to put a gate across the passage that leads to our
garden. I would like a solid "door style" gate, about 3'3" wide and 6'
tall.

I know you use a Z shape brace on the back to hold it all together but
do you just butt the planks together or is it better to use tongued
and grooved wood?

T&G prevents gaps opening up between the planks, and it restrains them
if one warps. It also encourages rot.

Would you glue them or would nails/bolts be enough?

as TNP said forget glue. Bolts are more secure than screws are more
secure than nails.

I know 18mm T&G is readily available and often used as floorboards; is
T&G available in thicker sizes?

What's the best way to mount it? Onto a stout fence post?

that works.

What is the best way to lock it shut? Would you use a padlocked bolt
or could you somehow incorporate a mortice lock?

2 locking points if youre serious about it staying locked. *Pointy
bits above to discourage climbing. I'd hate to be relying on a garden
gate for security though.

NT

Make sure you preserve / creosote the T&G before putting it together.
I used 2x3 (inch) for my gate, and it had the z braces plus timbers
around the edge.
Simon.

Fred wrote:
Hi,

I would like to put a gate across the passage that leads to our
garden. I would like a solid "door style" gate, about 3'3" wide and 6'
tall.

I know you use a Z shape brace on the back to hold it all together but
do you just butt the planks together or is it better to use tongued
and grooved wood? Would you glue them or would nails/bolts be enough?

I know 18mm T&G is readily available and often used as floorboards; is
T&G available in thicker sizes?

What's the best way to mount it? Onto a stout fence post?

What is the best way to lock it shut? Would you use a padlocked bolt
or could you somehow incorporate a mortice lock?

BTW would you cramp the wood together whilst the glue sets and if so,
is it worth paying for Irwin cramps? They seem to cost twice as much
as the other makes. Are they worth the extra or are you just paying
for the name?

TIA

I have made several, the first for myself about 12 years ago - the side
passage is only 2feet 6 wide so nothing commetcially available. Made it
8ft high - it firs in with the lie of the land. Made to a ledged and
braceg design in pine from a local timber merchant using 125 x 25 timber
for the ledges/braces (3 ledges). Cladding was t&g Vjointed 100 x 18.
Clading laid out, braces fitted & screwed from front in an attractive
pattern, trimmed to size. I used galvanised fittings, latch on middle
ledge & bolts on top & bottom. To allow neighbours in to water plants I
routed out a piece of the ledging to take a mortice lock and coach
bolted it to the gate just under the centre stile. The whole assembly
was soaked in (real) creosote and shows no sign of deteriorating 12
years on, even the galvanised fittins show little sign of deterioration.

Malcolm

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 13:10:22 +0100, Fred wrote:

I know you use a Z shape brace on the back to hold it all together but
do you just butt the planks together or is it better to use tongued
and grooved wood?

Without T&G gaps will open between the boards in summer when it dries
out.

Would you glue them or would nails/bolts be enough?

Hot dip galvanised nails or brass/stainless screws. No need to glue,
indeed as others have pointed out the movement will nagger any glued
joint.

I know 18mm T&G is readily available and often used as floorboards; is
T&G available in thicker sizes?

Thicker! Is this just a deterent against access or for real security?
I'd use 4 x 1 PAR for the ledges and braces faces with 10mm T&G
cladding for just a gate to block the way.

What's the best way to mount it? Onto a stout fence post?

At least a 3" square preferably 4" with the best part of 2' in the
ground. You say "across the passage" that implies to me a wall on at
least one side in which case 2" sq fixed to the wall and the gate
fixed to that will do.

What is the best way to lock it shut? Would you use a padlocked bolt
or could you somehow incorporate a mortice lock?

Padlocked bolt with bolts top and bottom.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:25:51 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

Is this just a deterent against access or for real security?

A deterrent against opportunistic theft. I don't have anything
valuable behind it but a burglar wouldn't know that, so I'd like to
keep them out in the first place.

At least a 3" square preferably 4" with the best part of 2' in the
ground. You say "across the passage" that implies to me a wall on at
least one side in which case 2" sq fixed to the wall and the gate
fixed to that will do.

There are walls on both sides but only one is mine so I don't want to
drill into my neighbour's wall. I was thinking I could attach a post
to my wall or fasten to my wall direct and bury a fence post on my
neighbour's side.

Thanks.

On 17 June, 13:10, Fred wrote:

I would like to put a gate across the passage that leads to our
garden. I would like a solid "door style" gate, about 3'3" wide and 6'
tall.

I know you use a Z shape brace on the back to hold it all together but
do you just butt the planks together or is it better to use tongued
and grooved wood? Would you glue them or would nails/bolts be enough?

It's outdoors, so it will move with seasonal moisture changes. T&G is
too fine and will break, a half-lapped edge is better. Your boards
should only be fastened in the centre of the board, so that their
edges can move in and out freely. The half-lap stops a gap appearing.
You can buy timber machined like this, saw it on your table saw
(best), hand plane it with a #78 or rebate with a router.

The Z frame and hinges are where the strength is. As a minimum, use
half laps with bolts through them. Diagonal brace "under" the rails
looks best.

For strength, nails, bolts and screws. If you use nails, use long ones
and clench them over on the back (Crop diagonally to 1 1/2" long, bend
the last 1/4"-1/2" to make a spike, then bend the stub sideways across
the grain and hammer it into the timber. Looks neat when done
carefully.


I know 18mm T&G is readily available and often used as floorboards; is
T&G available in thicker sizes?

Buy better timber, with better rot resistance. Larch or Douglas fir.


What's the best way to mount it? Onto a stout fence post?

Whatever is handy. Toolstation / Screwfix do big galv hinge sets.


What is the best way to lock it shut? Would you use a padlocked bolt
or could you somehow incorporate a mortice lock?

Padlocked bolt. Too skinny for a mortice lock, rimlocks are generally
flimsy. If you have a substantial and weatherproof rimlock (some Yale
pin tumbler deadlocks) then use that.

BTW would you cramp the wood together whilst the glue sets

I wouldn't bother gluing it, as glue won't last anyway. You need a
flat assembly surface (tarmac is fine), three or four cheap
lightweight aluminium long clamps, and an anvil-shaped object for
clenching the nails against. I suggest assembling the Z frame,
attaching two light battens to hold this in place, then nailing the
skin to the frame. Finally remove the battens.


is it worth paying for Irwin cramps?

No, buy old S/H Record or Paramo.

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 09:23:22 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley
wrote:

Buy better timber, with better rot resistance. Larch or Douglas fir.

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I was interested to read that larch and Douglas fir are more resistant
to rot. Where can I learn more about what wood has what qualities?

What is the best way to lock it shut? Would you use a padlocked bolt
or could you somehow incorporate a mortice lock?

Padlocked bolt. Too skinny for a mortice lock, rimlocks are generally
flimsy. If you have a substantial and weatherproof rimlock (some Yale
pin tumbler deadlocks) then use that.

Rim lock is what I meant. I knew mortice lock was the wrong word
because I knew the mortice was the slot it fitted into but I just
didn't know what the right word was. Thanks. A couple of posters have
suggested padlocks being best, so I will go down that route. The only
disadvantage of a padlock is that it only really allows unlocking from
one side, unless you cut a hole in the gate.

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 09:23:22 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley
wrote:

a half-lapped edge is better. Your boards
should only be fastened in the centre of the board, so that their
edges can move in and out freely. The half-lap stops a gap appearing.
You can buy timber machined like this, saw it on your table saw
(best), hand plane it with a #78 or rebate with a router.

Thanks. I'm wondering why using the table saw is best rather than a
router? Wouldn't you have to make two passes with a table saw but only
one with a router?

Is there a reason to use half lap joints rather than saw the edges at
45 degrees? Wouldn't that allow for expansion without creating gaps to
see through?

TIA

Fred wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 09:23:22 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley
wrote:

a half-lapped edge is better. Your boards
should only be fastened in the centre of the board, so that their
edges can move in and out freely. The half-lap stops a gap appearing.
You can buy timber machined like this, saw it on your table saw
(best), hand plane it with a #78 or rebate with a router.

Thanks. I'm wondering why using the table saw is best rather than a
router? Wouldn't you have to make two passes with a table saw but only
one with a router?


in the average workshop, a saw is usually there, with the right cutter
already in it :-)

a router usually is not, at least in table format, and needs the right
cutter fitting.

People with table saws tend to find very creative ways to do a lot with
them!


Is there a reason to use half lap joints rather than saw the edges at
45 degrees? Wouldn't that allow for expansion without creating gaps to
see through?


It's possible, but leads to weak splintery edges,. It is in fact what
weatherboard or feather edge or whatever the lapped style boards,
essentially are..

Plenty of ways of cat skinning, as you are appreciating.

T & G is just widely available, so why not use it?



TIA

Fred wrote:

Hi,

I would like to put a gate across the passage that leads to our
garden. I would like a solid "door style" gate, about 3'3" wide and 6'
tall.

I know you use a Z shape brace on the back to hold it all together but
do you just butt the planks together or is it better to use tongued
and grooved wood? Would you glue them or would nails/bolts be enough?

Nails for the weather proof T&G board. Screws and glue for the brace.


I know 18mm T&G is readily available and often used as floorboards; is
T&G available in thicker sizes?

Why do you need more? Also use hard wood (Oak, Ash etc) if you can
afford it as it lasts alot longer

What's the best way to mount it? Onto a stout fence post?

Wood rots in 20 years or less so I used 3"X3" attached to short
concrete posts, 3' in the ground.


What is the best way to lock it shut? Would you use a padlocked bolt
or could you somehow incorporate a mortice lock?

I used a digi-code lock, with a draw bolt on the inside. But anything
can be used, as long as its weather proof.



BTW would you cramp the wood together whilst the glue sets and if so,

The screws will hold it.

is it worth paying for Irwin cramps? They seem to cost twice as much
as the other makes. Are they worth the extra or are you just paying
for the name?

TIA

You will need to allow for expansion of the boards during wet weather -
use 1/8" packers.

Coach bolt on each of the three hinges (for effect) and a couple on the
latch block to stop to stop theves unscrewing it.



--
---
zaax
Frustration casues accidents: allow faster traffic to overtake.