Having never seen one being used I wondered why they are such an unusual
shape rather than a simple angled ladder.
e.g.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/12220/

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:23:12 +0100, PJ wibbled:

Having never seen one being used I wondered why they are such an unusual
shape rather than a simple angled ladder. e.g.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/12220/

Can I ask a question: those ladders are all very well if you want to
climb the face to the ridge. But what if you are trying to climb up the
other hipped face? Is there some ladder magic to help there?



--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:23:12 +0100, PJ wrote:

Having never seen one being used I wondered why they are such an unusual
shape rather than a simple angled ladder.
e.g.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/12220/

I can think of two possible reasons:

1. Depending on the angle of the roof, a simple angled end might only be
held in place by the very top edge and if the ridge tiles moved, the jerk
might dislodge you or the ladder.

2. The ladder shown seems to have a couple of rungs on the far side and if
they are, they'd allow you to straddle the ridge while working on the ridge
or a chimney stack - a simple angled end could see-saw on the ridge if it
didn't exactly match the roof angle.

SteveW

"PJ" wrote in message ...
Having never seen one being used I wondered why they are such an unusual
shape rather than a simple angled ladder.
e.g.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/12220/

So they hook over the top, like in this example, or am I missing the point!?
Like this http://www.austinwhite.co.uk/eshop/p...od=536&xSec=23

Toby...

In article ,
PJ writes:
Having never seen one being used I wondered why they are such an unusual
shape rather than a simple angled ladder.
e.g.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/12220/

The ladder has to go over the ridge and rest on the opposite roof
face without touching the ridge (which might otherwise get damaged,
or worse, might provide the support for the ladder, break off, and
leave the ladder and whoever is on it whizzing down the roof to a
sticky end).

The standoff's raise the rungs above the roof face so you can get
a foot grip on the rungs. They're sometimes padded to reduce chance
of damage to the roof.

The wheels allow it to be flipped onto it's back and pushed up the
roof to the ridge, whereupon it's flipped back the right way around.

I have a kit which you bolt to the end of a ladder to make it into
a roof ladder. It came from screwfix about 5 years ago, but I don't
see it on their website now.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Problem is usually climbing onto the roof :-)

Well worth hunting around hire places for cheap alloy tower rates -
Jewsons often can be the cheapest, independents can beat them tho.
With a mini tower + outriggers + properly tied to house wall you could
tie the roof ladder to that - at least removing the "wild, albeit
last, sledging ride on the way to the spinal injuries ward".

On 10/06/2010 20:25, Toby wrote:

"PJ" wrote in message
...
Having never seen one being used I wondered why they are such an
unusual shape rather than a simple angled ladder.
e.g.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/12220/

So they hook over the top, like in this example, or am I missing the
point!?
Like this http://www.austinwhite.co.uk/eshop/p...od=536&xSec=23

Toby...
Actually Toby, as has been said many time on this group, a picture makes
it far more clear. I expected a roof ladder to lay flat on both sides of
the roof to spread the load but there is a need for toe space when
climbing.

I can understand Andrew's point about not touching the ridge since some
older houses locally have elaborate ridge tiles.

Looking at the image, provided by Toby, it still looks precarious and
the Screwfix ladder has a sharper angle which would hold the ladder
further away from the roof on the reverse slope.

I have nothing but admiration for the folk who daily use them it seems
rather like throwing a grappling hook over the ridge.

On 10/06/2010 20:56, js.b1 wrote:
Problem is usually climbing onto the roof :-)

Well worth hunting around hire places for cheap alloy tower rates -
Jewsons often can be the cheapest, independents can beat them tho.
With a mini tower + outriggers + properly tied to house wall you could
tie the roof ladder to that - at least removing the "wild, albeit
last, sledging ride on the way to the spinal injuries ward".

Looking at the image of the chap on the roof ladder I can certainly
agree with that. I do not think that aerial riggers are paid enough.

Thanks for all the comments.

PJ

Tim Watts wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:23:12 +0100, PJ wibbled:

Having never seen one being used I wondered why they are such an unusual
shape rather than a simple angled ladder. e.g.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/12220/

Can I ask a question: those ladders are all very well if you want to
climb the face to the ridge. But what if you are trying to climb up the
other hipped face? Is there some ladder magic to help there?


A skyhook or scaffolding if you are too chicken to just walk up it.*
\0

In article , PJ scribeth
thus
On 10/06/2010 20:56, js.b1 wrote:
Problem is usually climbing onto the roof :-)

Well worth hunting around hire places for cheap alloy tower rates -
Jewsons often can be the cheapest, independents can beat them tho.
With a mini tower + outriggers + properly tied to house wall you could
tie the roof ladder to that - at least removing the "wild, albeit
last, sledging ride on the way to the spinal injuries ward".

Looking at the image of the chap on the roof ladder I can certainly
agree with that. I do not think that aerial riggers are paid enough.


When I were a lad..we had to rig aerials for the TV shop I worked at.
We didn't have this sort of luxury just a straight wooden ladder picked
up at a junk sale somewhere, with a couple of bits of flat steel around
an inch wide and quarter thick to hook over the ridge screwed to the
sides of the ladder..

We used that in all weathers, blinding rain or snow it was expected and
we just had to do it. And to cap it all the tight old barstard we worked
for bought a van less heater as that was going to cost him extra.

Tight old sod he's long dead now and ... well never mind;!...

And we were paid bugger all but knew no different really...


Thanks for all the comments.

PJ

--
Tony Sayer

Toby wrote:

"PJ" wrote in message
...
Having never seen one being used I wondered why they are such an
unusual shape rather than a simple angled ladder.
e.g.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/12220/

So they hook over the top, like in this example, or am I missing the
point!?
Like this http://www.austinwhite.co.uk/eshop/p...od=536&xSec=23

Toby...
The wheels are so you can roll it up then flip it over.

I bought just the wheels and bent bit, they bolted on to a normal ladder.

[g]

Tim Watts wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:23:12 +0100, PJ wibbled:

Having never seen one being used I wondered why they are such an unusual
shape rather than a simple angled ladder. e.g.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/12220/

Can I ask a question: those ladders are all very well if you want to
climb the face to the ridge. But what if you are trying to climb up the
other hipped face? Is there some ladder magic to help there?



There is a picture in the roofers bible of a hook ladder with only one
hook which could go diagonally.

http://www.amazon.com/Slate-Roof-Bib.../dp/0964425815

But I use a long hook ladder and then a short hook ladder to get in the
diagonals.

[g]



[g]

tony sayer wrote:
In article , PJ scribeth
thus
On 10/06/2010 20:56, js.b1 wrote:
Problem is usually climbing onto the roof :-)

Well worth hunting around hire places for cheap alloy tower rates -
Jewsons often can be the cheapest, independents can beat them tho.
With a mini tower + outriggers + properly tied to house wall you could
tie the roof ladder to that - at least removing the "wild, albeit
last, sledging ride on the way to the spinal injuries ward".
Looking at the image of the chap on the roof ladder I can certainly
agree with that. I do not think that aerial riggers are paid enough.


When I were a lad..we had to rig aerials for the TV shop I worked at.
We didn't have this sort of luxury just a straight wooden ladder picked
up at a junk sale somewhere, with a couple of bits of flat steel around
an inch wide and quarter thick to hook over the ridge screwed to the
sides of the ladder..

We used that in all weathers, blinding rain or snow it was expected and
we just had to do it. And to cap it all the tight old barstard we worked
for bought a van less heater as that was going to cost him extra.

Tight old sod he's long dead now and ... well never mind;!...

And we were paid bugger all but knew no different really...


Thanks for all the comments.

PJ

The roofers last week just cemented the ridges in at the joins, longwise,
they didnt bed them in,
so a system like yours would probably loosen them and you'd slide down
the roof to the floor then have a rdige tile land on your head.

or should I say my head.

[g]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 23:09:53 +0100, "george [dicegeorge]"
wibbled:


There is a picture in the roofers bible of a hook ladder with only one
hook which could go diagonally.

http://www.amazon.com/Slate-Roof-Bib...ng-Installing/
dp/0964425815

But I use a long hook ladder and then a short hook ladder to get in the
diagonals.

You mean you put the long ladder over the ridge near one end, then hang a
short hook ladder off the long ladder at an angle?

Cheers

Tim




--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

Tim Watts wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 23:09:53 +0100, "george [dicegeorge]"
wibbled:


There is a picture in the roofers bible of a hook ladder with only one
hook which could go diagonally.

http://www.amazon.com/Slate-Roof-Bib...ng-Installing/
dp/0964425815
But I use a long hook ladder and then a short hook ladder to get in the
diagonals.

You mean you put the long ladder over the ridge near one end, then hang a
short hook ladder off the long ladder at an angle?

Cheers

Tim




no,
i'm not sure what you mean- i dont hink i have any hips...
,
Near a valley i can have a long ladder to get up to the ridge,
then a short ladder to reach down nearer the top of the valley.

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 21:51:02 +0100, John Rumm
wibbled:

On 10/06/2010 20:35, Andrew Gabriel wrote:


I have a kit which you bolt to the end of a ladder to make it into a
roof ladder. It came from screwfix about 5 years ago, but I don't see
it on their website now.

I have one of those - take bleeding ages to fix on each time you need
it.

Er - how many times do you go up on the roof John!? ;-

Or does your roof overlook some sporting fixture like another here?

Me - I'd spend 3 hours conditioning my mind before I went up there and I
have a bungalow - the wheels would be irrelevant!!



--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 23:51:20 +0100, "george [dicegeorge]"
wibbled:

Tim Watts wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 23:09:53 +0100, "george [dicegeorge]"
wibbled:


There is a picture in the roofers bible of a hook ladder with only one
hook which could go diagonally.

http://www.amazon.com/Slate-Roof-Bib...ng-Installing/
dp/0964425815
But I use a long hook ladder and then a short hook ladder to get in
the diagonals.

You mean you put the long ladder over the ridge near one end, then hang
a short hook ladder off the long ladder at an angle?

Cheers

Tim




no,
i'm not sure what you mean- i dont hink i have any hips... ,
Near a valley i can have a long ladder to get up to the ridge, then a
short ladder to reach down nearer the top of the valley.

Oh - I see.

I don't have any valleys so it didn't occur to me...

Cheers

Tim



--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

John Rumm wrote:

The time irritation is more a case of when you need it on the ladder for
some parts of a job, but not on for others - a couple of swaps on an off
could swallow 10 mins for each application or removal (6 U bolts, 6
plate washers, 12 ordinary washers, and nylock nuts to
assemble/dismantle each time).

Sounds like you must be getting through the nylocks at some rate.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

John Rumm wrote:
On 10/06/2010 20:35, Andrew Gabriel wrote:


I have a kit which you bolt to the end of a ladder to make it into
a roof ladder. It came from screwfix about 5 years ago, but I don't
see it on their website now.

I have one of those - take bleeding ages to fix on each time you need it.


Oh, tell me about it...!

As I have two extending ladders now (had to buy the second because the
original wasn't long enough fro a long-term project I was working on)
I've ended up storing one of the ladders with the roof kit permanently
fixed.

My other difficulty is that living in what I've recently discovered is
an "arts and crafts"-style property, the roof is very long and steep,
which means that the distance between ridge to eaves is longer than the
length of any single ladder - therefore I have to use an extension
ladder as the roof ladder. That's problematical as it means that as you
climb it, the lugs on the upper section which normally hook over and
lock the rungs of the lower section are being loaded in the wrong
direction (IYSWIM). Furthermore, being two sections, the lower face of
the ladder in contact with the tiles is staggered (IYSWIM), so to
present a flush face (and therefore even loading) to the roof, I need to
attach lengths of timber to each rail of the lower section. Sounds a
bit Heath Robinson but all that's achieved with very firm strapping etc,
and is as safe as a single-section ladder would be. But takes an age to
set up (which is why we had no channel 5 on the TV for most of the winter!)

David

The roofers last week just cemented the ridges in at the joins, longwise,
they didnt bed them in,
so a system like yours would probably loosen them and you'd slide down
the roof to the floor then have a rdige tile land on your head.

or should I say my head.

[g]


Happened once to a mate of mine .. roof ladder went from under him just
happened to have a pair of wire cutters in his hand which he "stabbed"
the roof with to make a handhold to stop him sliding down the slates on
a Four story building!...

Not a lot of fun but back up there as soon as the ladder was patched
up!.

Thank god for the 1974 health and safety @ work act!...
--
Tony Sayer

Lobster wrote:

My other difficulty is that living in what I've recently discovered is
an "arts and crafts"-style property, the roof is very long and steep,
which means that the distance between ridge to eaves is longer than the
length of any single ladder - therefore I have to use an extension
ladder as the roof ladder. T

I once had such a property. I never had to face the roof
externally, but going into the loft was quite a shock. Once you
went through the trapdoor and stood up, there was nothing at all
within reach to grab hold of.

However, there was no need to stuff it full of the usual tqt, as
there was a fully-boarded Narnia above the garage, reached
through the back of a built-in wardrobe.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

Chris J Dixon wrote:
Lobster wrote:

My other difficulty is that living in what I've recently discovered is
an "arts and crafts"-style property, the roof is very long and steep,
which means that the distance between ridge to eaves is longer than the
length of any single ladder - therefore I have to use an extension
ladder as the roof ladder. T

I once had such a property. I never had to face the roof
externally, but going into the loft was quite a shock. Once you
went through the trapdoor and stood up, there was nothing at all
within reach to grab hold of.

Not quite like mine then - the 1st floor's kind-of built into the roof
space (ie the eaves are at about window-sill level upstairs) so the loft
is really pretty tiny - you can't only just stand up at full height.

David

Chris J Dixon wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

The time irritation is more a case of when you need it on the ladder for
some parts of a job, but not on for others - a couple of swaps on an off
could swallow 10 mins for each application or removal (6 U bolts, 6
plate washers, 12 ordinary washers, and nylock nuts to
assemble/dismantle each time).

Sounds like you must be getting through the nylocks at some rate.

Chris

Why so? Nylocks are reuseable.

Lobster wrote:

Chris J Dixon wrote:

I once had such a property. I never had to face the roof
externally, but going into the loft was quite a shock. Once you
went through the trapdoor and stood up, there was nothing at all
within reach to grab hold of.

Not quite like mine then - the 1st floor's kind-of built into the roof
space (ie the eaves are at about window-sill level upstairs) so the loft
is really pretty tiny - you can't only just stand up at full height.

This was the house, though it has had a bedroom added into
"Narnia" above the garage.
http://tinyurl.com/3ahhpl7

The roof used to run from the apex right down to the side of the
garage,as it still does on the other half of the building.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember PJ saying something
like:

Having never seen one being used I wondered why they are such an unusual
shape rather than a simple angled ladder.
e.g.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/12220/

It's so you can roll it up and then flip it over. There's another type
I've seen which has a pull cord releasing a similar arrangement at the
top, which then latches and when you're finished with it, another pull
on the cord releases it and pulls it back up to clear the ridge. Perhaps
the cord type is no longer approved, for all I know.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember PJ saying something
like:

Having never seen one being used I wondered why they are such an unusual
shape rather than a simple angled ladder.
e.g.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/12220/

It's so you can roll it up and then flip it over. There's another type
I've seen which has a pull cord releasing a similar arrangement at the
top, which then latches and when you're finished with it, another pull
on the cord releases it and pulls it back up to clear the ridge. Perhaps
the cord type is no longer approved, for all I know.
if you slip on a rung and grab the cord...

[g]

In article ,
tony sayer writes:

Happened once to a mate of mine .. roof ladder went from under him just
happened to have a pair of wire cutters in his hand which he "stabbed"
the roof with to make a handhold to stop him sliding down the slates on
a Four story building!...

Whilst working on my chimney a few weeks ago, I dropped a very large
adjustable spanner I was using to move some of the scaffold poles.
I watched helpless as this large heavy spanner slid slowly away down
the roof. Wondering if it's going to stop in the gutter, but no, it
slides right over the gutter and vanishes out of sight over the
edge of the roof, so I now only get the sound effects. The next
sound is that of it bouncing off the top of the wheelie bin, which
is where next door's cat was curled up asleep when I walked past it
10 minutes earlier. This was followed by a few more ricochets, mostly
which I couldn't identify, but the last one was was the sound of
something smashing, I presume the large flower pot down there.

On returning to ground level, I find next door's cat is still curled
up on the wheelie bin, not asleep, but not obviously involved in the
incident, which is a tremdous relief because a) I'm quite attached to
him, and b) the thought of explaining that to the neighbours didn't
bare thinking about. I decide that the sound must have been the spanner
bouncing off the base of a large upturned bucket I had been using to
mix mortar in, and was left upturned drying out after washing.

The flower pot was still in one piece, but the two spare roof tiles I
had put aside to replace any the scafolders broke were now themselves
in pieces. How ironic that I used up the spares without even fitting
them;-) I couldn't identify what the other impacts I heard were, but
the spanner was surprisingly OK.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "george [dicegeorge]"
saying something like:

It's so you can roll it up and then flip it over. There's another type
I've seen which has a pull cord releasing a similar arrangement at the
top, which then latches and when you're finished with it, another pull
on the cord releases it and pulls it back up to clear the ridge. Perhaps
the cord type is no longer approved, for all I know.

if you slip on a rung and grab the cord...

That would be exciting.

On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:49:53 +0100, Chris J Dixon
wrote:


This was the house, though it has had a bedroom added into
"Narnia" above the garage.
http://tinyurl.com/3ahhpl7

Diven up and down there a few times - it's probably less than five
miles from where I live.

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:35:56 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
PJ writes:
Having never seen one being used I wondered why they are such an unusual
shape rather than a simple angled ladder.
e.g.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/12220/

The ladder has to go over the ridge and rest on the opposite roof
face without touching the ridge (which might otherwise get damaged,
or worse, might provide the support for the ladder, break off, and
leave the ladder and whoever is on it whizzing down the roof to a
sticky end).

The standoff's raise the rungs above the roof face so you can get
a foot grip on the rungs. They're sometimes padded to reduce chance
of damage to the roof.

The standoffs also prevent the back face of the ladder from lying
against the ridge tiles.

--
Frank Erskine

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "george [dicegeorge]"
saying something like:

It's so you can roll it up and then flip it over. There's another type
I've seen which has a pull cord releasing a similar arrangement at the
top, which then latches and when you're finished with it, another pull
on the cord releases it and pulls it back up to clear the ridge. Perhaps
the cord type is no longer approved, for all I know.

if you slip on a rung and grab the cord...

That would be exciting.
for about 8 seconds.

Whilst working on my chimney a few weeks ago, I dropped a very large
adjustable spanner I was using to move some of the scaffold poles.
I watched helpless as this large heavy spanner slid slowly away down
the roof. Wondering if it's going to stop in the gutter, but no, it
slides right over the gutter and vanishes out of sight over the
edge of the roof, so I now only get the sound effects. The next
sound is that of it bouncing off the top of the wheelie bin, which
is where next door's cat was curled up asleep when I walked past it
10 minutes earlier. This was followed by a few more ricochets, mostly
which I couldn't identify, but the last one was was the sound of
something smashing, I presume the large flower pot down there.

On returning to ground level, I find next door's cat is still curled
up on the wheelie bin, not asleep, but not obviously involved in the
incident, which is a tremdous relief because a) I'm quite attached to
him, and b) the thought of explaining that to the neighbours didn't
bare thinking about. I decide that the sound must have been the spanner
bouncing off the base of a large upturned bucket I had been using to
mix mortar in, and was left upturned drying out after washing.

The flower pot was still in one piece, but the two spare roof tiles I
had put aside to replace any the scafolders broke were now themselves
in pieces. How ironic that I used up the spares without even fitting
them;-) I couldn't identify what the other impacts I heard were, but
the spanner was surprisingly OK.


On some high aerial structures nowadays the aerial riggers have to have
their tools on retaining straps or "tapes" just in case they drop a
spanner..

Sometimes it might not matter but more often than not they'll be someone
soft and squidgy around;!..

Apart from a bl^^dy long climb don to retrieve said item;!....
--
Tony Sayer

On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:35:20 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:

On returning to ground level, I find next door's cat is still curled
up on the wheelie bin, not asleep, but not obviously involved in the
incident, which is a tremdous relief because a) I'm quite attached to
him, and b) the thought of explaining that to the neighbours didn't
bare thinking about.

Andrew, never hit on your neighbour's pussy!
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.

On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:27:40 +0100, Dave Osborne wrote:

Chris J Dixon wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

The time irritation is more a case of when you need it on the ladder for
some parts of a job, but not on for others - a couple of swaps on an off
could swallow 10 mins for each application or removal (6 U bolts, 6
plate washers, 12 ordinary washers, and nylock nuts to
assemble/dismantle each time).

Sounds like you must be getting through the nylocks at some rate.

Chris

Why so? Nylocks are reuseable.

They shouldn't be re-used more than a couple of times though.

SteveW

Steve Walker wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:27:40 +0100, Dave Osborne wrote:

Chris J Dixon wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

The time irritation is more a case of when you need it on the ladder for
some parts of a job, but not on for others - a couple of swaps on an off
could swallow 10 mins for each application or removal (6 U bolts, 6
plate washers, 12 ordinary washers, and nylock nuts to
assemble/dismantle each time).

Sounds like you must be getting through the nylocks at some rate.

Chris
Why so? Nylocks are reuseable.

They shouldn't be re-used more than a couple of times though.

SteveW

Depends whether or not you use a power tool to drive them. If you use a
hand operated tool (and consequently they never get hot) then they are
re-useable an indefinite number of times. If you power drive them and
they get too hot, then the effectiveness can be lost after one 'go'.

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,

Whilst working on my chimney a few weeks ago, I dropped a very large
adjustable spanner I was using to move some of the scaffold poles.
I watched helpless as this large heavy spanner slid slowly away down
the roof. Wondering if it's going to stop in the gutter, but no, it
slides right over the gutter and vanishes out of sight over the
edge of the roof, so I now only get the sound effects.

Oh I can better that...

I once had to drill a hole through an upstairs outside wall to take a
15mm overflow pipe. This was a property right on the street, ie
pavement directly below. You can guess the rest. Without thinking
through the potential consequences, I just attacked the bathroom wall
with my SDS, and drilled through no problems; a split-second later I
heard a thud from outside. Hmm, what was that? Oh... my... God... I
tore downstairs and out the front door, and out there on the pavement
below the bathroom window was a bloke standing there eating his chips
for lunch looking rather quizzically at the full housebrick which had
just landed on the ground inches away from him.

He was surprisingly OK about it actually!

David