After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio slabs has
got considerably broken up in places.

How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the slabs
themselves?

I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling with a
dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some plasticiser (e.g.
like Unibond).

Would this be a good way of tackling the job or are there better ways to
repair the damage?

Yours,
Ed

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio slabs has
got considerably broken up in places.

How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the slabs
themselves?

I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling with a
dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some plasticiser (e.g. like
Unibond).

Would this be a good way of tackling the job or are there better ways to
repair the damage?

Yours,
Ed

Yes I'd like to know that too: I foolishly chose last summer to repoint some
of the crazy paving under where gutters always overflow in heavy rain.
After severe frosts and several roof fulls of melting snow, it's all come
out again...

S

On May 12, 1:14*pm, Ed ex@directory wrote:
After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio slabs has
got considerably broken up in places.

How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the slabs
themselves?

I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling with a
dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some plasticiser (e.g.
like Unibond).

Would this be a good way of tackling the job or are there better ways to
repair the damage?

Yours,
Ed

Use a totally dry mix on dry slabs, brush it all in.


NT

On 12/05/10 13:41, NT wrote:
On May 12, 1:14 pm, Ed ex@directory wrote:
After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio slabs has
got considerably broken up in places.

How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the slabs
themselves?

I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling with a
dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some plasticiser (e.g.
like Unibond).

Would this be a good way of tackling the job or are there better ways to
repair the damage?

Yours,
Ed

Use a totally dry mix on dry slabs, brush it all in.


NT


You done this before with success?

What mix you recommend?

Ed

Ed wrote:
After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio slabs
has got considerably broken up in places.

Know the feeling - I've just done the job - and got the bloody scars on the
fingers from using a worn out plugging chisel to rake out the joints (I
couldn't find my good one at the time).

How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the slabs
themselves?

Use a 1:4 mix of cement and sand, wetting it just enough so that when you
squeeze it with your hand, it just holds together in a small ball. You can
add colouring to the mix at this stage if needed

I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling with a
dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some plasticiser (e.g.
like Unibond).

Don't use plasticiser or unibond - simply use the above mix and pack well
into the open joints, tool it off to the shape you want and then lightly
sweep a brush over to clean up an spills.

*IMPORTANT* Choose a dry [1], cloudy [2] day to do this (with no rain
forecast for 24 hours) - the reasons are [1] wet slabs will cause the mortar
to run and hence stain, [2] hot sun will dry the mortar out too quickly
leading to early breakdown of the stuff.

Would this be a good way of tackling the job or are there better ways
to repair the damage?

The above is about the only way, but a refinement is available if you use a
'pointing gun'. This is simply a bigger version of a mastic gun with a
different sized nozzle

Cash

On 12/05/10 16:26, Cash wrote:
Ed wrote:
After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio slabs
has got considerably broken up in places.

Know the feeling - I've just done the job - and got the bloody scars on the
fingers from using a worn out plugging chisel to rake out the joints (I
couldn't find my good one at the time).

How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the slabs
themselves?

Use a 1:4 mix of cement and sand, wetting it just enough so that when you
squeeze it with your hand, it just holds together in a small ball. You can
add colouring to the mix at this stage if needed

I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling with a
dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some plasticiser (e.g.
like Unibond).

Don't use plasticiser or unibond - simply use the above mix and pack well
into the open joints, tool it off to the shape you want and then lightly
sweep a brush over to clean up an spills.

Why not use plasticiser or unibond ?

Ed

On May 12, 2:47*pm, Ed ex@directory wrote:
On 12/05/10 13:41, NT wrote:



On May 12, 1:14 pm, Ed ex@directory wrote:
After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio slabs has
got considerably broken up in places.

How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the slabs
themselves?

I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling with a
dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some plasticiser (e.g.
like Unibond).

Would this be a good way of tackling the job or are there better ways to
repair the damage?

Yours,
Ed

Use a totally dry mix on dry slabs, brush it all in.

NT

You done this * before with success?

What mix you recommend?

Ed

I'd better take back what I said, I realised it wasnt a dry mix but a
dry wet mix IYSWIM.


NT

Ed wrote:
On 12/05/10 16:26, Cash wrote:
Ed wrote:
After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio slabs
has got considerably broken up in places.

Know the feeling - I've just done the job - and got the bloody scars
on the fingers from using a worn out plugging chisel to rake out the
joints (I couldn't find my good one at the time).

How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the slabs
themselves?

Use a 1:4 mix of cement and sand, wetting it just enough so that
when you squeeze it with your hand, it just holds together in a
small ball. You can add colouring to the mix at this stage if needed

I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling
with a dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some
plasticiser (e.g. like Unibond).

Don't use plasticiser or unibond - simply use the above mix and pack
well into the open joints, tool it off to the shape you want and
then lightly sweep a brush over to clean up an spills.

Why not use plasticiser or unibond ?

Makes things too slippy, thus more likely to stain the patio. If you want
more of a wet, pliable (and stronger mix) simply use 1:3 sand and cement and
add more water, this will certainly make the mortar stronger, but will also
make the staining of the patio a dead certainty.

And remember though, the morter is not there for strength [1], but to help
stop rainwater getting to (and possiby washing away) any sand base - or more
usually simply to make things more aesthetic.

[1] Such as to hold the slabs in place - if want to stop the slabs
moving, bear more weight (for parking a car on perhaps) or impervious to
water penetration, simpy lay a concrete base and stick the slabs (touching
each other so no jointing is needed) on to that with a normal mortar mix.

Cash

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio slabs has
got considerably broken up in places.

How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the slabs
themselves?

I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling with a
dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some plasticiser (e.g. like
Unibond).

Would this be a good way of tackling the job or are there better ways to
repair the damage?

Yours,
Ed





I've been did this exact job on a new patio last w/e. I used a 4:1 mix with
just a dash of water to make a very dry mix. This was spread along the
joints and tamped down with a short batten of suitable thickness. If you
don't tamp it down it will soon fail. Then pointed up with a pointing iron
and the surplus mortar brushed away. No point bothering with plasticiser as
the mix is too dry for that to do anything other than reduce the strength.

I used white cement so that the mortar pretty much takes the colour of the
sand, seems to be a lot more able to stain than a grey mix so I'm hoping
that'll go with a few rain showers.

mark

NT wrote:
On May 12, 2:47 pm, Ed ex@directory wrote:
On 12/05/10 13:41, NT wrote:



On May 12, 1:14 pm, Ed ex@directory wrote:
After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio
slabs has got considerably broken up in places.

How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the
slabs themselves?

I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling
with a dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some
plasticiser (e.g. like Unibond).

Would this be a good way of tackling the job or are there better
ways to repair the damage?

Yours,
Ed

Use a totally dry mix on dry slabs, brush it all in.

NT

You done this before with success?

What mix you recommend?

Ed

I'd better take back what I said, I realised it wasnt a dry mix but a
dry wet mix IYSWIM.

Its about right when its like the topping for apple crumble (before its
cooked).

Tommy Walsh has a version. Use watering can (no rose) to flood joints, wait
for surface to dry, brush in dry mix & tool in.




--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257
Medway Fair Trader - Trading Standards Accredited.
CRB Checked.

On 12 May, 13:14, Ed ex@directory wrote:
After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio slabs has
got considerably broken up in places.

How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the slabs
themselves?

I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling with a
dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some plasticiser (e.g.
like Unibond).

Would this be a good way of tackling the job or are there better ways to
repair the damage?

Yours,
Ed

Had the same patio problem. Year after year clearing out new weed
growth and making tedious joint repairs knowing full well I'd be
doing the same again the following summer.
Fortunately, the slabs are close fitting with average gaps about
5~15mm. Solution was to wait for a hot day and repoint/grout using a
few tubes of Silicone Rubber. ('hot glue' also works well)
Not had any problems for the past 8 years!. The stuff also withstands
an annual patio power wash to remove the green slime that covers
everything nowadays .
Am currently pondering Siliconing the block paved driveway but don't
think I'll have the patience

On May 12, 8:00*pm, wrote:
On 12 May, 13:14, Ed ex@directory wrote:

After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio slabs has
got considerably broken up in places.

How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the slabs
themselves?

I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling with a
dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some plasticiser (e.g.
like Unibond).

Would this be a good way of tackling the job or are there better ways to
repair the damage?

Yours,
Ed

Had the same patio problem. Year after year clearing out new weed
growth and * making tedious joint repairs knowing full well I'd be
doing the same again the following summer.
Fortunately, the slabs are close fitting with average gaps about
5~15mm. Solution was to wait for a hot day and repoint/grout using a
few tubes of Silicone Rubber. ('hot glue' also works well)
Not had any problems for the past 8 years!. The stuff also withstands
an annual patio power wash to remove the green slime that covers
everything nowadays *.
Am currently pondering Siliconing the block paved driveway but *don't
think I'll have the patience

Does that work out more or less cost than epoxy mortar?


NT

On 12 May, 20:35, NT wrote:
On May 12, 8:00*pm, wrote:





On 12 May, 13:14, Ed ex@directory wrote:

After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio slabs has
got considerably broken up in places.

How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the slabs
themselves?

I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling with a
dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some plasticiser (e.g.
like Unibond).

Would this be a good way of tackling the job or are there better ways to
repair the damage?

Yours,
Ed

Had the same patio problem. Year after year clearing out new weed
growth and * making tedious joint repairs knowing full well I'd be
doing the same again the following summer.
Fortunately, the slabs are close fitting with average gaps about
5~15mm. Solution was to wait for a hot day and repoint/grout using a
few tubes of Silicone Rubber. ('hot glue' also works well)
Not had any problems for the past 8 years!. The stuff also withstands
an annual patio power wash to remove the green slime that covers
everything nowadays *.
Am currently pondering Siliconing the block paved driveway but *don't
think I'll have the patience

Does that work out more or less cost than epoxy mortar?

NT

Good question. Just done some sums and the rubber works out cheaper!.
Ebay ........ Epoxy mortar ~ £30 for 3000ml ... is £1 per 100ml
Screwfix.....Silicone gunge ~ £2.20 for 310ml ... is 71p per 100ml
I reckon my usage was about 1 tube of gunge per square meter and with
benefit of zero waste.
Reasons I tried the sealant was it's all weather flexibility,
biological inertness and the fact it bonds exquisitely to other
Silicon based materials (eg sand as stone or as admixture to
commercial flagging).
This allowed the flaggings to continue their year on year natural
settlements, creepage and differential expansions and variable
loadings, without any crevices developing as the rubber just stretches
and compresses without bond failure and consequential weed growth. In
reality it's only the odd mm or so of movement but this was more than
sufficient to break any mortar type rigid infill I'd previously
attempted.
Offhand, I can't imagine the Epoxies offering the level of resilience
that is natural with the rubbers.

On May 13, 12:20*am, wrote:
On 12 May, 20:35, NT wrote:



On May 12, 8:00*pm, wrote:

On 12 May, 13:14, Ed ex@directory wrote:

After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio slabs has
got considerably broken up in places.

How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the slabs
themselves?

I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling with a
dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some plasticiser (e.g..
like Unibond).

Would this be a good way of tackling the job or are there better ways to
repair the damage?

Yours,
Ed

Had the same patio problem. Year after year clearing out new weed
growth and * making tedious joint repairs knowing full well I'd be
doing the same again the following summer.
Fortunately, the slabs are close fitting with average gaps about
5~15mm. Solution was to wait for a hot day and repoint/grout using a
few tubes of Silicone Rubber. ('hot glue' also works well)
Not had any problems for the past 8 years!. The stuff also withstands
an annual patio power wash to remove the green slime that covers
everything nowadays *.
Am currently pondering Siliconing the block paved driveway but *don't
think I'll have the patience

Does that work out more or less cost than epoxy mortar?

NT

Good question. Just done some sums and the rubber works out cheaper!.
Ebay ........ Epoxy mortar * ~ *£30 for * 3000ml ... is £1 * per 100ml
Screwfix.....Silicone gunge ~ *£2.20 for 310ml *... is 71p per 100ml
I reckon my usage was about 1 tube of gunge per square meter and with
benefit of zero waste.
Reasons I tried the sealant was it's all weather flexibility,
biological inertness and the fact it bonds exquisitely to other
Silicon based materials (eg sand as stone or as admixture to
commercial flagging).
This allowed the flaggings to continue their year on year natural
settlements, creepage and differential expansions and variable
loadings, without any crevices developing as the rubber just stretches
and compresses without *bond failure and consequential weed growth. In
reality *it's only the odd mm or so of movement but this was more than
sufficient to break any mortar type rigid infill I'd previously
attempted.
Offhand, I can't imagine the Epoxies offering the level of resilience
that is natural with the rubbers.


Interesting. FWIW Toolstation does 310ml carts for £1.69, or a 25 pack
for £33.94 = £1.36 each


NT

NT wrote:
On May 13, 12:20 am, wrote:
On 12 May, 20:35, NT wrote:



On May 12, 8:00 pm, wrote:
On 12 May, 13:14, Ed ex@directory wrote:
After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio slabs has
got considerably broken up in places.
How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the slabs
themselves?
I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling with a
dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some plasticiser (e.g.
like Unibond).
Would this be a good way of tackling the job or are there better ways to
repair the damage?
Yours,
Ed
Had the same patio problem. Year after year clearing out new weed
growth and making tedious joint repairs knowing full well I'd be
doing the same again the following summer.
Fortunately, the slabs are close fitting with average gaps about
5~15mm. Solution was to wait for a hot day and repoint/grout using a
few tubes of Silicone Rubber. ('hot glue' also works well)
Not had any problems for the past 8 years!. The stuff also withstands
an annual patio power wash to remove the green slime that covers
everything nowadays .
Am currently pondering Siliconing the block paved driveway but don't
think I'll have the patience
Does that work out more or less cost than epoxy mortar?
NT
Good question. Just done some sums and the rubber works out cheaper!.
Ebay ........ Epoxy mortar ~ £30 for 3000ml ... is £1 per 100ml
Screwfix.....Silicone gunge ~ £2.20 for 310ml ... is 71p per 100ml
I reckon my usage was about 1 tube of gunge per square meter and with
benefit of zero waste.
Reasons I tried the sealant was it's all weather flexibility,
biological inertness and the fact it bonds exquisitely to other
Silicon based materials (eg sand as stone or as admixture to
commercial flagging).
This allowed the flaggings to continue their year on year natural
settlements, creepage and differential expansions and variable
loadings, without any crevices developing as the rubber just stretches
and compresses without bond failure and consequential weed growth. In
reality it's only the odd mm or so of movement but this was more than
sufficient to break any mortar type rigid infill I'd previously
attempted.
Offhand, I can't imagine the Epoxies offering the level of resilience
that is natural with the rubbers.


Interesting. FWIW Toolstation does 310ml carts for £1.69, or a 25 pack
for £33.94 = £1.36 each


NT

Halfway down this page there's a polymer modified cement grout

http://www.palacechemicals.co.uk/Pow...eAdhesives.htm

Don't know how that would compare performance wise but it could be
brushed into the joints

stuart noble wrote:
NT wrote:
On May 13, 12:20 am, wrote:
On 12 May, 20:35, NT wrote:



On May 12, 8:00 pm, wrote:
On 12 May, 13:14, Ed ex@directory wrote:
After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio
slabs has got considerably broken up in places.
How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the
slabs themselves?
I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling
with a dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some
plasticiser (e.g. like Unibond).
Would this be a good way of tackling the job or are there better
ways to repair the damage?
Yours,
Ed
Had the same patio problem. Year after year clearing out new weed
growth and making tedious joint repairs knowing full well I'd be
doing the same again the following summer.
Fortunately, the slabs are close fitting with average gaps about
5~15mm. Solution was to wait for a hot day and repoint/grout
using a few tubes of Silicone Rubber. ('hot glue' also works well)
Not had any problems for the past 8 years!. The stuff also
withstands an annual patio power wash to remove the green slime
that covers everything nowadays .
Am currently pondering Siliconing the block paved driveway but don't
think I'll have the patience
Does that work out more or less cost than epoxy mortar?
NT
Good question. Just done some sums and the rubber works out
cheaper!. Ebay ........ Epoxy mortar ~ £30 for 3000ml ... is
£1 per 100ml Screwfix.....Silicone gunge ~ £2.20 for 310ml ...
is 71p per 100ml I reckon my usage was about 1 tube of gunge per
square meter and with benefit of zero waste.
Reasons I tried the sealant was it's all weather flexibility,
biological inertness and the fact it bonds exquisitely to other
Silicon based materials (eg sand as stone or as admixture to
commercial flagging).
This allowed the flaggings to continue their year on year natural
settlements, creepage and differential expansions and variable
loadings, without any crevices developing as the rubber just
stretches and compresses without bond failure and consequential
weed growth. In reality it's only the odd mm or so of movement but
this was more than sufficient to break any mortar type rigid infill
I'd previously attempted.
Offhand, I can't imagine the Epoxies offering the level of
resilience that is natural with the rubbers.


Interesting. FWIW Toolstation does 310ml carts for £1.69, or a 25
pack for £33.94 = £1.36 each


NT

Halfway down this page there's a polymer modified cement grout

http://www.palacechemicals.co.uk/Pow...eAdhesives.htm

Don't know how that would compare performance wise but it could be
brushed into the joints

B&Q and Wickes do similar products.
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Buff-Patio-Grout/invt/154002


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
stuart noble wrote:
NT wrote:
On May 13, 12:20 am, wrote:
On 12 May, 20:35, NT wrote:



On May 12, 8:00 pm, wrote:
On 12 May, 13:14, Ed ex@directory wrote:
After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio
slabs has got considerably broken up in places.
How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the
slabs themselves?
I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling
with a dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some
plasticiser (e.g. like Unibond).
Would this be a good way of tackling the job or are there better
ways to repair the damage?
Yours,
Ed
Had the same patio problem. Year after year clearing out new weed
growth and making tedious joint repairs knowing full well I'd be
doing the same again the following summer.
Fortunately, the slabs are close fitting with average gaps about
5~15mm. Solution was to wait for a hot day and repoint/grout
using a few tubes of Silicone Rubber. ('hot glue' also works well)
Not had any problems for the past 8 years!. The stuff also
withstands an annual patio power wash to remove the green slime
that covers everything nowadays .
Am currently pondering Siliconing the block paved driveway but don't
think I'll have the patience
Does that work out more or less cost than epoxy mortar?
NT
Good question. Just done some sums and the rubber works out
cheaper!. Ebay ........ Epoxy mortar ~ £30 for 3000ml ... is
£1 per 100ml Screwfix.....Silicone gunge ~ £2.20 for 310ml ...
is 71p per 100ml I reckon my usage was about 1 tube of gunge per
square meter and with benefit of zero waste.
Reasons I tried the sealant was it's all weather flexibility,
biological inertness and the fact it bonds exquisitely to other
Silicon based materials (eg sand as stone or as admixture to
commercial flagging).
This allowed the flaggings to continue their year on year natural
settlements, creepage and differential expansions and variable
loadings, without any crevices developing as the rubber just
stretches and compresses without bond failure and consequential
weed growth. In reality it's only the odd mm or so of movement but
this was more than sufficient to break any mortar type rigid infill
I'd previously attempted.
Offhand, I can't imagine the Epoxies offering the level of
resilience that is natural with the rubbers.

Interesting. FWIW Toolstation does 310ml carts for £1.69, or a 25
pack for £33.94 = £1.36 each


NT
Halfway down this page there's a polymer modified cement grout

http://www.palacechemicals.co.uk/Pow...eAdhesives.htm
Don't know how that would compare performance wise but it could be
brushed into the joints

B&Q and Wickes do similar products.
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Buff-Patio-Grout/invt/154002


Doesn't say that it's polymer modified though. Some of the cement grouts
seem to contain nothing but cement, which makes them kind of expensive

On Wednesday, 12 May 2010 13:14:30 UTC+1, Ed wrote:
After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio slabs has
got considerably broken up in places.

How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the slabs
themselves?

I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling with a
dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some plasticiser (e.g.
like Unibond).

Would this be a good way of tackling the job or are there better ways to
repair the damage?

Yours,
Ed

2010?

Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 12 May 2010 13:14:30 UTC+1, Ed wrote:
After the ravages of the winter, the pointing between my patio slabs has
got considerably broken up in places.

How can I best repair this damage with minimal staining of the slabs
themselves?

I am thinking of raking out the loose mortar and then refilling with a
dryish 4:1 mix of sand and cement, maybe with some plasticiser (e.g.
like Unibond).

Would this be a good way of tackling the job or are there better ways to
repair the damage?

Yours,
Ed

I used this stuff to fill gaps between a block paving mowing strip, easy to use and nothing has shifted. It is a bit pricey but the time it saves applying it is well worth the money.

https://www.azpects.co.uk/products/easy-joint.aspx

Richard