I haven't seen this problem addressed here before, but it must have
been....?

I have a 1997 built detached house with an integral garage and a small
bedroom located over the garage. Last year the entire house outer wall
cavities were filled with glass fibre insulation (via holes) but this
has still left me with an unheated garage and two uninsulated surfaces
of the house: the garage ceiling and the adjacent house wall. I have a
plan for the wall and I'm now thinking of a solution to the ceiling
problem.

I'm sure that there is no insulation between the floorboards and the
garage ceiling, but I do wonder what the building regs say about
living quarters over a garage that also is the home to the gas-fired
c/h boiler? A fire-proof barrier?

My idea for the ceiling problem is to fabricate a crude false ceiling
about 200mm beneath the existing one, using MDF 2400 x 1200 x 9mm
panels as the surface. These to be supported by about five 38 x 63mm
studwork timbers attached to the garage walls using joist hangers.

I would then stuff the void with 100mm loft insulation, working as I
progress along installing the MDF panels.

Can anyone see any problems here?

David

On 29 Apr, 16:33, Huge wrote:

Yes. Integral garage ceilings have to be constructed of non-inflammable
materials. Two layers of 12mm plasterboard suffice, but I'm pretty sure
MDF isn't allowed.

Sort of. You can use Viroc's Versapanel for this. Cement-based enough
to meet the fire retardance requirement, but also near enough the
strength of MDF, rather than plasterboard. Handy stuff, as it's pretty
weatherproof too, although the thinner boards are annoyingly brittle.

"David J" wrote in message
news
I haven't seen this problem addressed here before, but it must have
been....?

I have a 1997 built detached house with an integral garage and a small
bedroom located over the garage. Last year the entire house outer wall
cavities were filled with glass fibre insulation (via holes) but this
has still left me with an unheated garage and two uninsulated surfaces
of the house: the garage ceiling and the adjacent house wall. I have a
plan for the wall and I'm now thinking of a solution to the ceiling
problem.

I'm sure that there is no insulation between the floorboards and the
garage ceiling, but I do wonder what the building regs say about
living quarters over a garage that also is the home to the gas-fired
c/h boiler? A fire-proof barrier?

My idea for the ceiling problem is to fabricate a crude false ceiling
about 200mm beneath the existing one, using MDF 2400 x 1200 x 9mm
panels as the surface. These to be supported by about five 38 x 63mm
studwork timbers attached to the garage walls using joist hangers.

I would then stuff the void with 100mm loft insulation, working as I
progress along installing the MDF panels.

Can anyone see any problems here?

David

Can't you just put loft insulation under the bedroom's floorboards?

S

On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:56:51 +0100, "spamlet"
wrote:


"David J" wrote in message
news
I haven't seen this problem addressed here before, but it must have
been....?

I have a 1997 built detached house with an integral garage and a small
bedroom located over the garage. Last year the entire house outer wall
cavities were filled with glass fibre insulation (via holes) but this
has still left me with an unheated garage and two uninsulated surfaces
of the house: the garage ceiling and the adjacent house wall. I have a
plan for the wall and I'm now thinking of a solution to the ceiling
problem.

I'm sure that there is no insulation between the floorboards and the
garage ceiling, but I do wonder what the building regs say about
living quarters over a garage that also is the home to the gas-fired
c/h boiler? A fire-proof barrier?

My idea for the ceiling problem is to fabricate a crude false ceiling
about 200mm beneath the existing one, using MDF 2400 x 1200 x 9mm
panels as the surface. These to be supported by about five 38 x 63mm
studwork timbers attached to the garage walls using joist hangers.

I would then stuff the void with 100mm loft insulation, working as I
progress along installing the MDF panels.

Can anyone see any problems here?

David

Can't you just put loft insulation under the bedroom's floorboards?

No floorboards in modern houses... Very large panels nowadays sadly.

David

"David J" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:56:51 +0100, "spamlet"
wrote:


"David J" wrote in message
news
I haven't seen this problem addressed here before, but it must have
been....?

I have a 1997 built detached house with an integral garage and a small
bedroom located over the garage. Last year the entire house outer wall
cavities were filled with glass fibre insulation (via holes) but this
has still left me with an unheated garage and two uninsulated surfaces
of the house: the garage ceiling and the adjacent house wall. I have a
plan for the wall and I'm now thinking of a solution to the ceiling
problem.

I'm sure that there is no insulation between the floorboards and the
garage ceiling, but I do wonder what the building regs say about
living quarters over a garage that also is the home to the gas-fired
c/h boiler? A fire-proof barrier?

My idea for the ceiling problem is to fabricate a crude false ceiling
about 200mm beneath the existing one, using MDF 2400 x 1200 x 9mm
panels as the surface. These to be supported by about five 38 x 63mm
studwork timbers attached to the garage walls using joist hangers.

I would then stuff the void with 100mm loft insulation, working as I
progress along installing the MDF panels.

Can anyone see any problems here?

David

Can't you just put loft insulation under the bedroom's floorboards?

No floorboards in modern houses... Very large panels nowadays sadly.

David

But power screwdrivers too: don't you have services under those boards you
may need to get at sometimes?

Otherwise: small hole + expanding foam/ cavity wall insulation?

S

On 29 Apr, 16:33, Huge wrote:
On 2010-04-29, David J wrote:





I haven't seen this problem addressed here before, but it must have
been....?

I have a 1997 built detached house with an integral garage and a small
bedroom located over the garage. Last year the entire house outer wall
cavities were filled with glass fibre insulation (via holes) but this
has still left me with an unheated garage and two uninsulated surfaces
of the house: the garage ceiling and the adjacent house wall. I have a
plan for the wall and I'm now thinking of a solution to the ceiling
problem.

I'm sure that there is no insulation between the floorboards and the
garage ceiling, but I do wonder what the building regs say about
living quarters over a garage that also is the home to the gas-fired
c/h boiler? *A fire-proof barrier?

My idea for the ceiling problem is to fabricate a crude false ceiling
about 200mm beneath the existing one, using MDF 2400 x 1200 x 9mm
panels as the surface. These to be supported by about five 38 x 63mm
studwork timbers attached to the garage walls using joist hangers.

I would then stuff the void with 100mm loft insulation, working as I
progress along installing the MDF panels.

Can anyone see any problems here?

Yes. Integral garage ceilings have to be constructed of non-inflammable
materials. Two layers of 12mm plasterboard suffice, but I'm pretty sure
MDF isn't allowed.

And you also want intumescent sealant ( http://www.screwfix.com/prods/70510
) around the edges and the joints.

On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:09:22 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:


Can anyone see any problems here?

Seems like more work than is necessary. Could you either:

lift the floor in the room above and stuff the void with insulation, or
screw an insulation backed plasterboard to the garage ceiling under the
existing one. If you want really quick and cheap, stick some PIR foil
faced foam boards to the garage ceiling and don't even bother with a
lining.

Thanks to all for the responses...

I think I'll go for this last suggestion of Johns for the ceiling and
the wall. My nearby Travis Perkins stock Xtratherm Thin R PIR 8ft x
4ft panels in various thicknesses that look right for the job. The
counter guys there reckon that woodscrews will hold it OK to the
existing ceiling plasterboard.

David

On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:25:40 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

David J wrote:
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:09:22 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:


Can anyone see any problems here?
Seems like more work than is necessary. Could you either:

lift the floor in the room above and stuff the void with insulation, or
screw an insulation backed plasterboard to the garage ceiling under the
existing one. If you want really quick and cheap, stick some PIR foil
faced foam boards to the garage ceiling and don't even bother with a
lining.

Thanks to all for the responses...

I think I'll go for this last suggestion of Johns for the ceiling and
the wall. My nearby Travis Perkins stock Xtratherm Thin R PIR 8ft x
4ft panels in various thicknesses that look right for the job. The
counter guys there reckon that woodscrews will hold it OK to the
existing ceiling plasterboard.

If you get long PB screws, and aim for the joists you will only need a
few to tack it in place. A few dabs of expanding foam or spray on
contact adhesive (on both surfaces) would help.


Thanks - I'll look into your contact adhesive idea. I was wondering
how to hold the panels in situ (on my own) while getting the screws
in.

Any tips on locating the floor joists here? Are they a fixed distance
apart? The plasterer has done an excellent job and all I can see is a
smooth pink surface.

Tapping the surface? Metal detector for the nails possibly?

David

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
David J wrote:
On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:25:40 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

David J wrote:
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:09:22 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:


Can anyone see any problems here?
Seems like more work than is necessary. Could you either:

lift the floor in the room above and stuff the void with insulation,
or
screw an insulation backed plasterboard to the garage ceiling under
the existing one. If you want really quick and cheap, stick some PIR
foil faced foam boards to the garage ceiling and don't even bother
with a lining.
Thanks to all for the responses...

I think I'll go for this last suggestion of Johns for the ceiling and
the wall. My nearby Travis Perkins stock Xtratherm Thin R PIR 8ft x
4ft panels in various thicknesses that look right for the job. The
counter guys there reckon that woodscrews will hold it OK to the
existing ceiling plasterboard.
If you get long PB screws, and aim for the joists you will only need a
few to tack it in place. A few dabs of expanding foam or spray on
contact adhesive (on both surfaces) would help.


Thanks - I'll look into your contact adhesive idea. I was wondering
how to hold the panels in situ (on my own) while getting the screws
in.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Dead_man_prop

Having said that, with impact glue, there is no holding til it sets -
since you let it dry mostly before putting it up, and then it has instant
grab.

Any tips on locating the floor joists here? Are they a fixed distance

Yup they will be on regular spacings - usually 400mm.

apart? The plasterer has done an excellent job and all I can see is a
smooth pink surface.

A few options:

A stud finder may help. If not, the metal detector function of the stud
finders will find the existing nails and screws.

In the absence of a detector a strong magnet will also find the
nails/screws

Tapping the surface? Metal detector for the nails possibly?

Tapping can work - but its harder if there are a couple of layers of
plasterboard.


A compass, should find the screws/nails and electrics too.

S