As the winter draws in, the windows are always damp with condensation in
the morning, and I have noticed that the wall paper closest to the
windows is also damp and turning black in places. When I peal the wall
paper back I see the plaster is also damp. I imagine this is due to the
fact that when walls were last decorated the plaster was touching the
windows frame, and the condensation now seeps into the plaster which
makes the wall paper damp etc etc… I have also noticed that there is a
sealant placed on top of the wall paper where the paper touched the
windows frame to make a tidy joint I would imagine.


My question is
How should the windows be correctly finished with respect to the inside
of the windows where the window frame meets the wall and plaster.
Many Thanks

EnterYourName wrote:
As the winter draws in, the windows are always damp with condensation in
the morning, and I have noticed that the wall paper closest to the
windows is also damp and turning black in places. When I peal the wall
paper back I see the plaster is also damp. I imagine this is due to the
fact that when walls were last decorated the plaster was touching the
windows frame, and the condensation now seeps into the plaster which
makes the wall paper damp etc etc€¦ I have also noticed that there is a
sealant placed on top of the wall paper where the paper touched the
windows frame to make a tidy joint I would imagine.


My question is
How should the windows be correctly finished with respect to the inside
of the windows where the window frame meets the wall and plaster.
Many Thanks

What sort of windows, with what sort of frames?

I've seen this on old 50's steel framed single glazed Crittal windows,
but not since.. also, on blockwork cavity houses, a window alcove forms
a cold bridge..

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:30:51 +0000, EnterYourName wrote:

How should the windows be correctly finished with respect to the inside
of the windows where the window frame meets the wall and plaster.

Just plastered against the frame. You simply have normal
condenstation, increase ventilation and/or room temperature.

--
Cheers
Dave.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
EnterYourName wrote:
As the winter draws in, the windows are always damp with condensation
in the morning, and I have noticed that the wall paper closest to the
windows is also damp and turning black in places. When I peal the wall
paper back I see the plaster is also damp. I imagine this is due to
the fact that when walls were last decorated the plaster was touching
the windows frame, and the condensation now seeps into the plaster
which makes the wall paper damp etc etc€¦ I have also noticed that
there is a sealant placed on top of the wall paper where the paper
touched the windows frame to make a tidy joint I would imagine.


My question is
How should the windows be correctly finished with respect to the
inside of the windows where the window frame meets the wall and plaster.
Many Thanks

What sort of windows, with what sort of frames?

I've seen this on old 50's steel framed single glazed Crittal windows,
but not since.. also, on blockwork cavity houses, a window alcove forms
a cold bridge..


Aluminium frames, double glazed sealed units possibly 15 years + old.
The house is a 1960 cavity house.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:30:51 +0000, EnterYourName wrote:

How should the windows be correctly finished with respect to the inside
of the windows where the window frame meets the wall and plaster.

Just plastered against the frame. You simply have normal
condenstation, increase ventilation and/or room temperature.

The room temperature is approx 18 degrees Any hotter is uncomfortable.
How do i increase ventilation ?? leavings a windows open (even slightly
appears to remove the advantages of windows ??). There are not in built
ventilation slots in the windows.

Each morning the windows are wet not just steamed up.

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:28:57 +0000, EnterYourName wrote:

The room temperature is approx 18 degrees Any hotter is uncomfortable.

Quite agree on the rrom temp but one would assume you have curtains,
the air between curtain and window will be considerably cooler. The
metal frames won't help but there isn't a lot you can do about that.

How do i increase ventilation ??

Don't fully close any curtains? or door(s) to the room(s). I trust
that extractor fans are used in wet areas like kitchens and
bathrooms.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:28:57 +0000, EnterYourName wrote:

The room temperature is approx 18 degrees Any hotter is uncomfortable.

Quite agree on the rrom temp but one would assume you have curtains,
the air between curtain and window will be considerably cooler. The
metal frames won't help but there isn't a lot you can do about that.

How do i increase ventilation ??

Don't fully close any curtains? or door(s) to the room(s). I trust
that extractor fans are used in wet areas like kitchens and
bathrooms.

Bit tricky with the curtains, as there closed to stop the external light
entering the room at night, then opened in the morning.

Apart from that the door are open all day, and fans are used in the wet
areas.

EnterYourName wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:28:57 +0000, EnterYourName wrote:

The room temperature is approx 18 degrees Any hotter is
uncomfortable.

Quite agree on the rrom temp but one would assume you have curtains,
the air between curtain and window will be considerably cooler. The
metal frames won't help but there isn't a lot you can do about that.

How do i increase ventilation ??

Don't fully close any curtains? or door(s) to the room(s). I trust
that extractor fans are used in wet areas like kitchens and
bathrooms.

Bit tricky with the curtains, as there closed to stop the external
light entering the room at night, then opened in the morning.

Apart from that the door are open all day, and fans are used in the
wet areas.

The fans might be aggravating things bringing more moisture laden air to the
cold surface.
Are these windows on east or north facing walls?

I mentioned in an earlier thread that I suffered condensation problems in my
house with cavity wall insulated and double glazed (timber) windows.
Installing a dehumidifier resolved the issue for me.

see "Oue house is damp"

Clot wrote:
EnterYourName wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:28:57 +0000, EnterYourName wrote:

The room temperature is approx 18 degrees Any hotter is
uncomfortable.
Quite agree on the rrom temp but one would assume you have curtains,
the air between curtain and window will be considerably cooler. The
metal frames won't help but there isn't a lot you can do about that.

How do i increase ventilation ??
Don't fully close any curtains? or door(s) to the room(s). I trust
that extractor fans are used in wet areas like kitchens and
bathrooms.

Bit tricky with the curtains, as there closed to stop the external
light entering the room at night, then opened in the morning.

Apart from that the door are open all day, and fans are used in the
wet areas.

The fans might be aggravating things bringing more moisture laden air to the
cold surface.
Are these windows on east or north facing walls?

I mentioned in an earlier thread that I suffered condensation problems in my
house with cavity wall insulated and double glazed (timber) windows.
Installing a dehumidifier resolved the issue for me.

see "Oue house is damp"


The windows direction is North , East and South, however the north
facing ones are usually worse.

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:21:39 +0000, EnterYourName
wrote:


The windows direction is North , East and South, however the north
facing ones are usually worse.

To be honest it all figures.

Get window catches that let you shut (Lock ?) the windows 7-10 mm
open.

We've done it and the loss of heat through the night, this time of
year is minimal.

Fresh air is good for the soul (if bad for the temperament).

Derek

EnterYourName wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:30:51 +0000, EnterYourName wrote:

How should the windows be correctly finished with respect to the
inside of the windows where the window frame meets the wall and plaster.

Just plastered against the frame. You simply have normal
condenstation, increase ventilation and/or room temperature.

The room temperature is approx 18 degrees Any hotter is uncomfortable.
How do i increase ventilation ?? leavings a windows open (even slightly
appears to remove the advantages of windows ??). There are not in built
ventilation slots in the windows.

Each morning the windows are wet not just steamed up.


if the glass is wet then the DG has probably failed.

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:48:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

if the glass is wet then the DG has probably failed.

Naw we get condesation on the new (22mm gap) DG windows here. Not a
lot just the bottom 1/2" at most on each pane, The older 6mm gap
stuff in the kitchen will run with water when cooking pasta and
that's with the cooker hood on.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:48:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

if the glass is wet then the DG has probably failed.

Naw we get condesation on the new (22mm gap) DG windows here. Not a
lot just the bottom 1/2" at most on each pane, The older 6mm gap
stuff in the kitchen will run with water when cooking pasta and
that's with the cooker hood on.

what does DG stand for Damp Gap ???
Is the the gas between the two sealed windows ???

On 3 Nov, 10:50, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:30:51 +0000, EnterYourName wrote:
How should the windows be correctly finished with respect to the inside
of the windows where the window frame meets the wall and plaster.

Just plastered against the frame. You simply have normal
condenstation, increase ventilation and/or room temperature.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave is dead right
You just have condensation

If you sleep in an hermetically sealed room you will get it.
Consider:
trickle vent installation via any timber sill or element
or, failing that, the adjacent masonry. this is better than a catch on
the window and allows the partial pressures to equalise

better still install a dehumidifier somewhere in the house and keep
the bedroom door open

take all the "normal" measures against condensation - lids on pans, no
washing hung out, dry heating, etc
consider increasing dew point with thin insulating wall "paper"
use condensation paint to control mould growth
keep the air circulating
insulate cold bridges eg in your windows - cut away the plaster and
put in foam for the gap between masonry and window and skim over 1mm
on the surface
avoid all water making sources as much as practicable


Chris

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 06:51:56 +0000, EnterYourName wrote:

what does DG stand for Damp Gap ???

Double Glazing

Is the the gas between the two sealed windows ???

I don't think the glass would be able to take the pressure if there
wasn't, they flex quite a bit in the wind as it is. Yes, these are
all still sealed units, no water vapour in the gap.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Nov 4, 7:41*am, wrote:
On 3 Nov, 10:50, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:30:51 +0000, EnterYourName wrote:
How should the windows be correctly finished with respect to the inside
of the windows where the window frame meets the wall and plaster.

Just plastered against the frame. You simply have normal
condenstation, increase ventilation and/or room temperature.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave is dead right
You just have condensation

If you sleep in an hermetically sealed room you will get it.
Consider:
trickle vent installation via any timber sill or element
or, failing that, the adjacent masonry. this is better than a catch on
the window and allows the partial pressures to equalise

better still install a dehumidifier somewhere in the house and keep
the bedroom door open

take all the "normal" measures against condensation - lids on pans, no
washing hung out, dry heating, etc
consider increasing dew point with thin insulating wall "paper"
use condensation paint to control mould growth
keep the air circulating
insulate cold bridges eg in your windows - cut away the plaster and
put in foam for the gap between masonry and window and skim over 1mm
on the surface
avoid all water making sources as much as practicable

Chris

Either ventilate, which will cost in heat loss, or use a dehumidifier,
which costs less in the long run

Or if you're doing something to cause excess damp, such as drying
clothes in the room, not doing so might prove enough.


NT

NT wrote:
On Nov 4, 7:41 am, wrote:
On 3 Nov, 10:50, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:30:51 +0000, EnterYourName wrote:
How should the windows be correctly finished with respect to the inside
of the windows where the window frame meets the wall and plaster.
Just plastered against the frame. You simply have normal
condenstation, increase ventilation and/or room temperature.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Dave is dead right
You just have condensation

If you sleep in an hermetically sealed room you will get it.
Consider:
trickle vent installation via any timber sill or element
or, failing that, the adjacent masonry. this is better than a catch on
the window and allows the partial pressures to equalise

better still install a dehumidifier somewhere in the house and keep
the bedroom door open

take all the "normal" measures against condensation - lids on pans, no
washing hung out, dry heating, etc
consider increasing dew point with thin insulating wall "paper"
use condensation paint to control mould growth
keep the air circulating
insulate cold bridges eg in your windows - cut away the plaster and
put in foam for the gap between masonry and window and skim over 1mm
on the surface
avoid all water making sources as much as practicable

Chris

Either ventilate, which will cost in heat loss, or use a dehumidifier,
which costs less in the long run

Or if you're doing something to cause excess damp, such as drying
clothes in the room, not doing so might prove enough.


NT
thanks for all the tips, can i assume than simply replaceing the windows
with the latest 12m DG in upvc will do nothing and if a sales man says
it will then he lying....

On Nov 4, 5:40*pm, EnterYourName
wrote:
NT wrote:
On Nov 4, 7:41 am, wrote:
On 3 Nov, 10:50, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:30:51 +0000, EnterYourName wrote:
How should the windows be correctly finished with respect to the inside
of the windows where the window frame meets the wall and plaster.
Just plastered against the frame. You simply have normal
condenstation, increase ventilation and/or room temperature.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Dave is dead right
You just have condensation

If you sleep in an hermetically sealed room you will get it.
Consider:
trickle vent installation via any timber sill or element
or, failing that, the adjacent masonry. this is better than a catch on
the window and allows the partial pressures to equalise

better still install a dehumidifier somewhere in the house and keep
the bedroom door open

take all the "normal" measures against condensation - lids on pans, no
washing hung out, dry heating, etc
consider increasing dew point with thin insulating wall "paper"
use condensation paint to control mould growth
keep the air circulating
insulate cold bridges eg in your windows - cut away the plaster and
put in foam for the gap between masonry and window and skim over 1mm
on the surface
avoid all water making sources as much as practicable

Chris

Either ventilate, which will cost in heat loss, or use a dehumidifier,
which costs less in the long run

Or if you're doing something to cause excess damp, such as drying
clothes in the room, not doing so might prove enough.

NT

thanks for all the tips, can i assume than simply replaceing the windows
with the latest 12m DG in upvc will do nothing and if a sales man says
it will then he lying....

replacing them isn't a sensible solution imho.


NT

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:40:20 +0000, EnterYourName wrote:

thanks for all the tips, can i assume than simply replaceing the windows
with the latest 12m DG in upvc will do nothing and if a sales man says
it will then he lying....

IIRC you already have DG but in metal frames. There might be some
improvement in going to 22mm gap DG and plastic but not a great deal.
Assuming that the metal frames have double seals and decent gapped
glazing. It probably wouldn't do much for the condensation problem.

--
Cheers
Dave.