Hi all.

I am writing on behalf of a friend who lives in an ex council area.
She lives in a terraced house that backs on to a garage compound,
which in turn backs on to a main road.

The wall for this compound was built 40+ years ago, is six feet high
and is only single leaf with the occasional, very thin, pillar for
support. The local night life scum like to trave through this compound
and over the wall. A tree was resting on it until last year when the
Highway cut it down as it could have caused damage.

A few weeks ago a section about 10 feet long was demolished. The
residents cleaned it up, bought barriers out of their own money and
have had builders in giving quotes. But last night the rest of the
wall was demolished. That's about another 40 feet of it.

There will be lot's of arguments about ownership (I'm looking into
Land registry already) responsabilities and the like, but my question
is about what to replace it with.

Is there a way of reinforcing a single leaf wall to resist this sort
of abuse? Can it have inserts like concrete has rebar? Would a better
cement mix help? Depending on who ends up paying it may be worth
putting a barbed wire top on it, or similar.

A double leaf would be better but it's unlikely that anyone will be
able to afford the extra costs.

Has anyone got any tips please?

Mike.

"Mike Barnard" wrote in message
...
Hi all.

I am writing on behalf of a friend who lives in an ex council area.
She lives in a terraced house that backs on to a garage compound,
which in turn backs on to a main road.

The wall for this compound was built 40+ years ago, is six feet high
and is only single leaf with the occasional, very thin, pillar for
support. The local night life scum like to trave through this compound
and over the wall. A tree was resting on it until last year when the
Highway cut it down as it could have caused damage.

A few weeks ago a section about 10 feet long was demolished. The
residents cleaned it up, bought barriers out of their own money and
have had builders in giving quotes. But last night the rest of the
wall was demolished. That's about another 40 feet of it.

There will be lot's of arguments about ownership (I'm looking into
Land registry already) responsabilities and the like, but my question
is about what to replace it with.

Is there a way of reinforcing a single leaf wall to resist this sort
of abuse? Can it have inserts like concrete has rebar? Would a better
cement mix help? Depending on who ends up paying it may be worth
putting a barbed wire top on it, or similar.

You can certainly and reinforcing mesh and even rebar if you have holes
through the bricks.
It may not stop them demolishing the wall if they really want to.


A double leaf would be better but it's unlikely that anyone will be
able to afford the extra costs.

Has anyone got any tips please?

Look at one of the modern wire fences (not chain link), cheaper than walls
and harder to climb but need more maintenance. You can also see through them
so its harder to hide.

Mike Barnard wrote:

Has anyone got any tips please?

Concrete panel wall/fence?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xb-jNmb4_4

(Warning! Video of idiot youth getting his comeuppance for vandalising a
wall. Not for the squeamish)

Tim

Mike Barnard wrote:
Hi all.

I am writing on behalf of a friend who lives in an ex council area.
She lives in a terraced house that backs on to a garage compound,
which in turn backs on to a main road.

The wall for this compound was built 40+ years ago, is six feet high
and is only single leaf with the occasional, very thin, pillar for
support. The local night life scum like to trave through this compound
and over the wall. A tree was resting on it until last year when the
Highway cut it down as it could have caused damage.

A few weeks ago a section about 10 feet long was demolished. The
residents cleaned it up, bought barriers out of their own money and
have had builders in giving quotes. But last night the rest of the
wall was demolished. That's about another 40 feet of it.

There will be lot's of arguments about ownership (I'm looking into
Land registry already) responsabilities and the like, but my question
is about what to replace it with.

Is there a way of reinforcing a single leaf wall to resist this sort
of abuse? Can it have inserts like concrete has rebar? Would a better
cement mix help? Depending on who ends up paying it may be worth
putting a barbed wire top on it, or similar.


Double skin of concrete blocks with a bow tie at and across every
block. Yes, its demiloshable, but it will take more than a night without
mechanical aid.

A double leaf would be better but it's unlikely that anyone will be
able to afford the extra costs.


Block is cheap - its the labour innit?

Has anyone got any tips please?

Mike.

On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:00:50 +0100, Tim Downie wrote:

Mike Barnard wrote:

Has anyone got any tips please?

Concrete panel wall/fence?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xb-jNmb4_4

(Warning! Video of idiot youth getting his comeuppance for vandalising a
wall. Not for the squeamish)

Tim

Beautiful - pity that he wasn't head-butting it, would have been even
funnier.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

On Sep 14, 9:26*am, Mike Barnard
wrote:
Hi all.

I am writing on behalf of a friend who lives in an ex council area.
She lives in a terraced house that backs on to a garage compound,
which in turn backs on to a main road.

The wall for this compound was built 40+ years ago, is six feet high
and is only single leaf with the occasional, very thin, pillar for
support. The local night life scum like to trave through this compound
and over the wall. A tree was resting on it until last year when the
Highway cut it down as it could have caused damage.

A few weeks ago a section about 10 feet long was demolished. The
residents cleaned it up, bought barriers out of their own money and
have had builders in giving quotes. But last night the rest of the
wall was demolished. That's about another 40 feet of it.

There will be lot's of arguments about ownership (I'm looking into
Land registry already) responsabilities and the like, but my question
is about what to replace it with.

Is there a way of reinforcing a single leaf wall to resist this sort
of abuse? Can it have inserts like concrete has rebar? Would a better
cement mix help? Depending on who ends up paying it may be worth
putting a barbed wire top on it, or similar.

A double leaf would be better but it's unlikely that anyone will be
able to afford the extra costs.

Has anyone got any tips please?

Mike.

make the wall thick, eg 13", use heavy concrete blocks, strongest
mortar possible with EVA added, and add, in order of increasing
effectiveness, barbed wire or EML in the mortar courses or rebar in
the middle of the wall, filling with concrete.

Another possible is rendered gabions, if a very thick wall is ok.

Other options exist, but you really want the wall to at least look
like something intended for peacetime.


NT

NT coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Sep 14, 9:26*am, Mike Barnard
wrote:
Hi all.

I am writing on behalf of a friend who lives in an ex council area.
She lives in a terraced house that backs on to a garage compound,
which in turn backs on to a main road.

The wall for this compound was built 40+ years ago, is six feet high
and is only single leaf with the occasional, very thin, pillar for
support. The local night life scum like to trave through this compound
and over the wall. A tree was resting on it until last year when the
Highway cut it down as it could have caused damage.

A few weeks ago a section about 10 feet long was demolished. The
residents cleaned it up, bought barriers out of their own money and
have had builders in giving quotes. But last night the rest of the
wall was demolished. That's about another 40 feet of it.

There will be lot's of arguments about ownership (I'm looking into
Land registry already) responsabilities and the like, but my question
is about what to replace it with.

Is there a way of reinforcing a single leaf wall to resist this sort
of abuse? Can it have inserts like concrete has rebar? Would a better
cement mix help? Depending on who ends up paying it may be worth
putting a barbed wire top on it, or similar.

A double leaf would be better but it's unlikely that anyone will be
able to afford the extra costs.

Has anyone got any tips please?

Mike.

make the wall thick, eg 13", use heavy concrete blocks, strongest
mortar possible with EVA added, and add, in order of increasing
effectiveness, barbed wire or EML in the mortar courses or rebar in
the middle of the wall, filling with concrete.

Another possible is rendered gabions, if a very thick wall is ok.

Other options exist, but you really want the wall to at least look
like something intended for peacetime.


NT

What about using bricks with the 3 holes through them (those might be
engineering bricks - I'm not a brick expert) and drop rebar through
occasionally as the bricklaying progresses? Nice brick wall and chavs with
broken ankles...

It might only be necessary to rebar to top 2-3 foot of wall given the weight
will make it very difficult to demolish from below.

Tim

First - photograph of vandalism to police & all councillors
Second - sell bricks to reclaimation yard, replace with chain-link &
posts

Bricks are out re cost...
- 1 brick requires 1kg of mortar - all adds up
- 1 leaf is a pointless expensive exercise
- 2 leaf requires a lot of money re bricks / mortar / foundations

Bricks are out re scrote NWNF lawyer...
- If they pull the wall on themselves they sue
- Any failure of the wall top and it is weaker
- Weathering of walls is severe unlike houses


Most councils have tried fences (easily broken & blow down re wind
loading), wooden posts (rot), vertical railings (stolen to dented),
vertical iron railings (work at a high price unless DIY), and now
settled on chain link. It is see-through, long-lived, not affected by
wind loading, clear physical barrier, unlikely to get stolen, easily
repaired in part if vandalised at low cost. It can be bought powder
coated green which softens the area yet looks "maintained" and thus
they tend to go elsewhere.

If the wall is traffic'd it needs to be double-leaf engineering brick
with wall-ties - or weather and scrotes combine to make it "look good
today, expensive to maintain & wreckable soon after". The biggest
problem is the top - coping to bricks dislodge and it comes under
scrote & weather attack.

Mortar must be weaker than the bricks, but the bricks need to be
engineering for longevity. Typical porous house bricks will blow-off
over time and then once the wall & mortar get saturated they
disintegrate like sand. If foundations are not good on a long run any
movement will see the wall crack and you've then got an expensive
rebuild.

If possible consider lighting - high pressure sodium or PIRs from any
overlooking houses.
You can't stop them, but you can make them go elsewhere along with the
police adding it to their rounds (if they do any).

Good luck.

In article ,
"Tim Downie" writes:
Mike Barnard wrote:

Has anyone got any tips please?

Concrete panel wall/fence?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xb-jNmb4_4

(Warning! Video of idiot youth getting his comeuppance for vandalising a
wall. Not for the squeamish)

Brilliant. A shame it didn't keep rolling to see how he got out of that!

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,
"Tim Downie" writes:
Mike Barnard wrote:

Has anyone got any tips please?

Concrete panel wall/fence?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xb-jNmb4_4

(Warning! Video of idiot youth getting his comeuppance for vandalising a
wall. Not for the squeamish)

Brilliant. A shame it didn't keep rolling to see how he got out of that!


Angle grinder?

On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 09:26:04 +0100, Mike Barnard
wrote:

Hi all.

I am writing on behalf of a friend who lives in an ex council area.
She lives in a terraced house that backs on to a garage compound,
which in turn backs on to a main road.

A few weeks ago a section about 10 feet long was demolished. The
residents cleaned it up, bought barriers out of their own money and
have had builders in giving quotes. But last night the rest of the
wall was demolished. That's about another 40 feet of it.

Thanks for your ideas all. Yes, the police are involved as are the
council, but apart from a promise of more patrols we don't expect
much.

Still waiting on land registry results, but the consensus is (if we
can get planning) to put up a steel fence with a climbing, thorny
plant on it. Any reccomendations for this plant? Something exotic and
lethal?

The clip of the yob getting caught is superb. I had seen it before but
I may send a copy to them now.

On 16 Sep, 21:22, Mike Barnard
wrote:
Still waiting on land registry results, but the consensus is (if we
can get planning) to put up a steel fence with a climbing, thorny
plant on it. Any reccomendations for this plant? Something exotic and
lethal?

Pyrethrum.

- Extremely dense, impenetrable, strong, interwoven web.
- Covered in long conical spines that are robust, sharp, vicious.
- Foliage continual all round, dark green, IIRC red berries.
- Grows quickly, easily forms an impenetrable 3-5-9ft hedge.

Whizz along it with a hedge trimmer & recovers even if savaged.
Needs no care, favoured where "problem entries" run alongside gardens.

Indeed forget the fence, just create a hedge of pyrethrum.
Attractive, inoffensive, but mess with it and it becomes razor wire
that grows.

There is one worse, but that requires multiple rows to get a dense
hedge.
Ask a good garden centre, shop around carefully.

js.b1 wrote:

On 16 Sep, 21:22, Mike Barnard
wrote:
Still waiting on land registry results, but the consensus is (if we
can get planning) to put up a steel fence with a climbing, thorny
plant on it. Any reccomendations for this plant? Something exotic and
lethal?

Pyrethrum.

ITYM pyracantha.

- Extremely dense, impenetrable, strong, interwoven web.
- Covered in long conical spines that are robust, sharp, vicious.
- Foliage continual all round, dark green, IIRC red berries.
- Grows quickly, easily forms an impenetrable 3-5-9ft hedge.

That's the one. There is a bush variety that grows about 3' high with
orange berries, and another than can grow 12' or more with red
berries. The latter needs to be kept under control, e.g. a bit of a
hedge trim every couple of weeks in the growing season.

Whizz along it with a hedge trimmer & recovers even if savaged.
Needs no care, favoured where "problem entries" run alongside gardens.

Indeed forget the fence, just create a hedge of pyrethrum.
Attractive, inoffensive, but mess with it and it becomes razor wire
that grows.

I'd suggest putting the fence up anyway, then going for the pyracantha
to protect the fence. Otherwise I fully agree.

There is one worse, but that requires multiple rows to get a dense
hedge.
Ask a good garden centre, shop around carefully.

Pay for the largest plants you can get, smaller ones can easily be
ripped up. Feed and water in the growing season.

I have the same situation as the OP, a single-skin garden wall that
after 40 years is showing signs of distress, crumbling mortar, cracks,
etc. If it goes while I'm still here, I'll put up a chicken-wire fence
and let the 30-year-established pyracatha bushes form into a
continuous hedge.

On Sep 17, 4:39 pm, Terry Fields wrote:
ITYM pyracantha.

That is it :-)

I'd suggest putting the fence up anyway, then going for the
pyracantha to protect the fence. Otherwise I fully agree.

It might be possible to get away with a stub chain-link fence.

Once the hedge is established the fence becomes secondary, at that
point it could be rolled up and dispensed with. Perhaps simply wooden
posts bolted into concreted-in ground-anchors with chain-link rolled
over. Just proper fasteners rather than staples to avoid "vandal
peel".

Pay for the largest plants you can get, smaller ones can
easily be ripped up. Feed and water in the growing season.

Indeed. The quicker it is established the better.

I have the same situation as the OP, a single-skin garden wall that
after 40 years is showing signs of distress, crumbling mortar, cracks,
etc. If it goes while I'm still here, I'll put up a chicken-wire fence
and let the 30-year-established pyracatha bushes form into a
continuous hedge.

Very effective, walls are not always the solution they seem.

Security is often for vandals:
In a local town all the small businesses/shops have "7ft brick walls".
They are double brick, but a shambles of crumbling brickwork.
Whilst sat in the neighbouring carpark children flip their hoods up &
climb over, shortly followed by the sound of back doors being kicked
in or a brick pounded against top bricks to remove them. Once one
brick has gone, the wall has no integrity from future attack by vandal
or weather erosion. Three times I have had to call 999, the businesses
have a life of misery with sky high business rates as it is.

Favourite ploy of councils:
Wall gets damaged, council sends letter demanding it be fixed in 28
days or they will do it for you and sue for nulabour rates.
Replacement cost can be horrific, true engineering bricks cost - cheap
frost-resistant stuff looks worse after 1yr than others 55yrs old.
Rebar must be galvanised because mortar provides little resistance
from water penetration - rebar is situated at too low a depth.

Some councils try to apply same to foliage:
Beware foliage growing "1-inch" over a pavement - some councils will
write threatening to cut whatever down & charge. So ensure any
planting is on your ground and keep the plants under control. The good
thing about the plant is a hedge trimmer will rapidly bring it back
into line without effort, ie, you do not need a farmer's trimmer for a
long hedge. It is a bit of a dinosaur plant in that respect, it will
withstand pretty much anything.

Councils do not like press attention to their "cretin with a keyboard
and power and anti-terror legislation", so any trouble and an article
in the local rag or online can really send them scurrying back under
the stone.

A final note - plant some spare plants so if any suffer damage they
can easily be transplanted at a moments notice.

In article
,
js.b1 wrote:
On 16 Sep, 21:22, Mike Barnard
wrote:
Still waiting on land registry results, but the consensus is (if we
can get planning) to put up a steel fence with a climbing, thorny
plant on it. Any reccomendations for this plant? Something exotic and
lethal?

Pyrethrum.
[snip]

Chaenomeles (Japanese quince)
Long thorns and lots of them.
Attractive flowers,
fruit can be used to make a jelly or added to apple pie.
Prune with care (or angle grinder)

John

--
John Mulrooney
NOTE Email address IS correct but might not be checked for a while.

Health is not valued until sickness comes

JTM wrote:
In article
,
js.b1 wrote:
On 16 Sep, 21:22, Mike Barnard
wrote:
Still waiting on land registry results, but the consensus is (if we
can get planning) to put up a steel fence with a climbing, thorny
plant on it. Any reccomendations for this plant? Something exotic and
lethal?

Pyrethrum.
[snip]

Chaenomeles (Japanese quince)
Long thorns and lots of them.
Attractive flowers,
fruit can be used to make a jelly or added to apple pie.
Prune with care (or angle grinder)

John

not all of them are large, and not all are spiny, and they need pretty
good sun to grow - here anyway.

Pyracantha is definitely top bunny.

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:41:08 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

JTM wrote:
In article
,
js.b1 wrote:
On 16 Sep, 21:22, Mike Barnard
wrote:
Still waiting on land registry results, but the consensus is (if we
can get planning) to put up a steel fence with a climbing, thorny
plant on it. Any reccomendations for this plant? Something exotic and
lethal?

Pyrethrum.
[snip]

Chaenomeles (Japanese quince)
Long thorns and lots of them.
Attractive flowers,
fruit can be used to make a jelly or added to apple pie.
Prune with care (or angle grinder)

John

not all of them are large, and not all are spiny, and they need pretty
good sun to grow - here anyway.

Pyracantha is definitely top bunny.

Is it fireproof?
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

On Sep 18, 4:13*pm, PeterC wrote:
Is it fireproof?

Yes, in the practical sense unless one wants to get into UL tests.
Sustaining fire can only occur with considerable application of
accelerant.

Unlike the million miles of wooden fencing in the UK which will
combust.
Unlike a PVC door against which sofa, wheely bin can be set alight. A
garden brick wall will spall readily with applied heat and can require
extensive repair - it's the now steam contained within it which causes
significant damage.
Unlike a parked stolen car with 20L of petrol, foam, rubber, paint,
upholstery, PVC.

Accelerants generally have low flash points, so whilst the moron is
lighting the bush the vapour flash and engulfs them in a fireball. The
most readily available, and dangerous, is petrol whose vapour hugs the
ground and unseen & unsmelt spreads around them. They might be lucky
and be on higher ground, but hopefully not.

In article ,
Tim S writes:
Andrew Gabriel coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,
"Tim Downie" writes:
Mike Barnard wrote:

Has anyone got any tips please?

Concrete panel wall/fence?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xb-jNmb4_4

(Warning! Video of idiot youth getting his comeuppance for vandalising a
wall. Not for the squeamish)

Brilliant. A shame it didn't keep rolling to see how he got out of that!

Angle grinder?

The fence probably already broke though the hard bits...

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Mike Barnard wrote:
Hi all.

I am writing on behalf of a friend who lives in an ex council area.
She lives in a terraced house that backs on to a garage compound,
which in turn backs on to a main road.

The wall for this compound was built 40+ years ago, is six feet high
and is only single leaf with the occasional, very thin, pillar for
support. The local night life scum like to trave through this compound
and over the wall. A tree was resting on it until last year when the
Highway cut it down as it could have caused damage.

A few weeks ago a section about 10 feet long was demolished. The
residents cleaned it up, bought barriers out of their own money and
have had builders in giving quotes. But last night the rest of the
wall was demolished. That's about another 40 feet of it.

There will be lot's of arguments about ownership (I'm looking into
Land registry already) responsabilities and the like, but my question
is about what to replace it with.

Is there a way of reinforcing a single leaf wall to resist this sort
of abuse? Can it have inserts like concrete has rebar? Would a better
cement mix help? Depending on who ends up paying it may be worth
putting a barbed wire top on it, or similar.

A double leaf would be better but it's unlikely that anyone will be
able to afford the extra costs.

Has anyone got any tips please?

Mike.

Well, probably not practical for a small garden, but a crinkle-crankle
wall produces an extremely strong structure without the need for
buttresses and forms rather nice arbors on the inside, and you could
plant something spikey on the outside concavities.

http://norfolkcoast.co.uk/curiositie...ranklewall.htm shows an
example.

Bramble stick

"Bramblestick" wrote in message
...
Mike Barnard wrote:
Hi all.

I am writing on behalf of a friend who lives in an ex council area.
She lives in a terraced house that backs on to a garage compound,
which in turn backs on to a main road.

The wall for this compound was built 40+ years ago, is six feet high
and is only single leaf with the occasional, very thin, pillar for
support. The local night life scum like to trave through this compound
and over the wall. A tree was resting on it until last year when the
Highway cut it down as it could have caused damage.

A few weeks ago a section about 10 feet long was demolished. The
residents cleaned it up, bought barriers out of their own money and
have had builders in giving quotes. But last night the rest of the
wall was demolished. That's about another 40 feet of it.

There will be lot's of arguments about ownership (I'm looking into
Land registry already) responsabilities and the like, but my question
is about what to replace it with.

Is there a way of reinforcing a single leaf wall to resist this sort
of abuse? Can it have inserts like concrete has rebar? Would a better
cement mix help? Depending on who ends up paying it may be worth
putting a barbed wire top on it, or similar.

A double leaf would be better but it's unlikely that anyone will be
able to afford the extra costs.

Has anyone got any tips please?

Mike.

Well, probably not practical for a small garden, but a crinkle-crankle
wall produces an extremely strong structure without the need for
buttresses and forms rather nice arbors on the inside, and you could plant
something spikey on the outside concavities.

http://norfolkcoast.co.uk/curiositie...ranklewall.htm shows an
example.

So a Norfolk website featuring a Suffolk wall. That's a bit crinkle crankle.

mark