Having moved house a few years back, there was a slabbed 'patio' at
the back of the house. Presumably due to the original levels of the
garden, this was laid over a total of 5 levels; with two of the levels
being only a single slab wide. (total area approx 5m x 4m).

The plan was always to deck it off, in order to
- provide a single level on which moving your chair a few inches
didn't result in one leg resting on thin air and topplind sideways.
- remove toddler trip hazards
- reduce injury when said toddlers 'just fall over' despite their
being nothing to trip on.

So; last week I ordered up some timber, a new circular saw, charged up
the batteries and set to it. Here are some (rather disjointed)
thoughts / queries.

Levelling the supporting beams: I found these:
http://www.easyfix.ie/index.php?page...oustic-systems , bought
a load of them, and would highly recommend them for anyone wanting a
fast way to lay a deck over a solid, but uneven base. (just a happy
user).

Supporting beams are 2 layers of 2 x 4 over part; dropping to 2x4 over
2x2 (well supported) and 2x4 on their own where the original 'patio'
was highest.

Drill driver v Impact Driver
I'm a bit of a tool buyer, and have a dewalt 18v Drill Driver / Impact
driver set. The impact was bought with the expectation of using it on
the deck but as the driver seemed to drive the 90mm TurboGolds without
issue and the Impact driver was so much louder (and seemed to suffer
from 'winding up' the screws rather than driving them) I now wonder
what use I will get from it. Drill driver with 2.6Ah batteries did 700-
odd screws on (I think) 6 charges. Very impressed. I tried driving one
screw the last few mm with a 'normal' hand screwdriver, and could
barely move it.

Edging the deck boards:
I left all the deck boards overhang the end, and cut them all in a
single pass at the end. Resulted in a very nice straight line that
really stands out, I think.

Spacing:
the deck boards shrank noticably over the first night. I laid them
with 3mm gaps as they were quite wet. Gap is now easily 5mm.

Screwdriver bits:
I bought a 10 pack of screwfix PZ3 bits, expecting them to be
consumables on a job like this. I finished with the same one I started
with. Is this normal? (I generally take good care of tools, and don't
willfully abuse them, but thought this was strange.)

To those thinking of undertaking building one;
- buy a good screwdriver
- have extra hands to assist with aligning boards.
- plan it well *before* starting
- it took me approx 30 man hours. (two of us; two good screwdrivers
with spare batteries)

(apologies for usign GGroups - I'm at work)

In article ,
Michael Murray (HotM) wrote:
Having moved house a few years back, there was a slabbed 'patio' at
the back of the house. Presumably due to the original levels of the
garden, this was laid over a total of 5 levels; with two of the levels
being only a single slab wide. (total area approx 5m x 4m).

I've just sorted something similar. Concrete, not level, dropped away in
one corner by 6 inches or so.

Digging up the concrete wasn't going to be realistic - 6x3m, anything from 3
to oer 6 inches thick and nowhere to get a skip...

Levelling the supporting beams: I found these:
http://www.easyfix.ie/index.php?page...oustic-systems , bought
a load of them, and would highly recommend them for anyone wanting a
fast way to lay a deck over a solid, but uneven base. (just a happy
user).

interesting. I built 6 small piers out of brick (well, at the front
it was a couple of paving slabs. Made sure this was level and also
built small piers for the pergola legs - seemed easier than cutting
through the concrete and although I considered using the bolt down
metpost things doing this meant that each upright could be exactly the
same length.

Supporting beams are 2 layers of 2 x 4 over part; dropping to 2x4 over
2x2 (well supported) and 2x4 on their own where the original 'patio'
was highest.

I used 2x6 for the frame. It wasn't much more expensive so I went with it.
Across a span of nearly 3m it hardly flexed at all which suprised me. I
added small posts standing on the concrete and then bolted to the deck
frame (8 - 12 inch long depending on the location. 4inch posts).

Drill driver v Impact Driver
I'm a bit of a tool buyer, and have a dewalt 18v Drill Driver / Impact
driver set. The impact was bought with the expectation of using it on
the deck but as the driver seemed to drive the 90mm TurboGolds without
issue and the Impact driver was so much louder (and seemed to suffer
from 'winding up' the screws rather than driving them) I now wonder
what use I will get from it. Drill driver with 2.6Ah batteries did 700-
odd screws on (I think) 6 charges. Very impressed. I tried driving one
screw the last few mm with a 'normal' hand screwdriver, and could
barely move it.

I've never had a decent leccy screwdriver and used this as a chance
to buy. Wow....

Ended up with

https://www.screwfix.com/prods/94022...-Twin-Pack-12V

for 120 quid. Very pleased. Only downside is the small capacity batteries
but with three and the included 20 min charger is wasn't really a problem.

Impact driver was fantastic (cheers Dave ). Driving in 90mm turbogold
bolts with no pilot hole to make the frame. Rather surprised at how many
many battery charges I got through - I'd guess probably 8-10 building the
frame, something similar screwing down the boards.

Edging the deck boards:
I left all the deck boards overhang the end, and cut them all in a
single pass at the end. Resulted in a very nice straight line that
really stands out, I think.

I was luck that the area was 3m wide and the local timber yard could supply
3m boards so very little cutting was required. The 3m boards they offered
were thicker than most I've seen but that seemed to be fine.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/deckboards

http://www.channelwoodcraft.com/timb...8-x-125-2.html

Are the ones I used. Got a better price go going to the yard and presenting
as a local as well ;-)

Spacing:
the deck boards shrank noticably over the first night. I laid them
with 3mm gaps as they were quite wet. Gap is now easily 5mm.

Can't say I've noticed anything that dramatic - a few of the boards that
weren't screwed down twisted a bit but nothing much.

Screwdriver bits:
I bought a 10 pack of screwfix PZ3 bits, expecting them to be
consumables on a job like this. I finished with the same one I started
with. Is this normal? (I generally take good care of tools, and don't
willfully abuse them, but thought this was strange.)

Heh, exactly the same here. I bought a box of 25 dewalt bits in the screwfix
clearance sale. 24 left in the box, one in the impact driver still fine :-)


To those thinking of undertaking building one;
- buy a good screwdriver

Definatly. I'd recommend the impact driver as well tbh. Well pleased with
mine although I guess with a bigger screwdriver it might not have been so
essential.

- have extra hands to assist with aligning boards.

Yep. Essential for getting the pergola uprights straight as well

- plan it well *before* starting

Yep. Google Sketchup was surprisingly easy to get the hang of for mocking
stuff up for SWMBO approval. Not used it in anger before - will certainly
use it again though.

- it took me approx 30 man hours. (two of us; two good screwdrivers
with spare batteries)

Hmmm... Thinking about it it took me and my dad 5 days to get the bulk of
it done.


Just need it to stop raining so I can build a step and a planter at the front
bring it down to the lawn. Then think about some treament possibly. Deck
oil or something... Are you planning on doing anything with yours?

http://bogit.com/tmp/deck3.jpg shows the Frame

http://bogit.com/tmp/deck4.jpg with some of the boards on it.

Any photos of your handy work? :-)

Hope this helps someone!

Darren

Michael Murray (HotM) wrote:
SNIP

So; last week I ordered up some timber, a new circular saw, charged up
the batteries and set to it. Here are some (rather disjointed)
thoughts / queries.

Levelling the supporting beams: I found these:
http://www.easyfix.ie/index.php?page...oustic-systems , bought
a load of them, and would highly recommend them for anyone wanting a
fast way to lay a deck over a solid, but uneven base. (just a happy
user).

Interesting. Were they very expensive? How do they help level?



Supporting beams are 2 layers of 2 x 4 over part; dropping to 2x4 over
2x2 (well supported) and 2x4 on their own where the original 'patio'
was highest.

Sorry, just to be clear, by '2 layers of 2 x 4' do you mean effectively an
8 x 2 or a 4 x 4 ?


Drill driver v Impact Driver
I'm a bit of a tool buyer, and have a dewalt 18v Drill Driver / Impact
driver set. The impact was bought with the expectation of using it on
the deck but as the driver seemed to drive the 90mm TurboGolds without
issue and the Impact driver was so much louder (and seemed to suffer
from 'winding up' the screws rather than driving them) I now wonder
what use I will get from it. Drill driver with 2.6Ah batteries did
700- odd screws on (I think) 6 charges. Very impressed. I tried
driving one screw the last few mm with a 'normal' hand screwdriver,
and could barely move it.

I've only got a 14.4v driver & a 12v impact driver. The 12v ID is much
faster than the 14.4v driver, especially on 6 x 90 Turbo Gold coach screws,
but also on the deck screws.

Never tried an 18v driver. Agreed about the noise with ID's, mind you if
you are doing decking commercially the extra noise impress's the client :-)


Edging the deck boards:
I left all the deck boards overhang the end, and cut them all in a
single pass at the end. Resulted in a very nice straight line that
really stands out, I think.

Deffo the way to go, thats how I do all of mine. Faster & neater.

Spacing:
the deck boards shrank noticably over the first night. I laid them
with 3mm gaps as they were quite wet. Gap is now easily 5mm.

Thats what winds me up with the Wickes & B&Q 'how to guides'. They always
mention a gap with no regard for the moisture content of the boards, the
weather or time of year.

Screwdriver bits:
I bought a 10 pack of screwfix PZ3 bits, expecting them to be
consumables on a job like this. I finished with the same one I started
with. Is this normal? (I generally take good care of tools, and don't
willfully abuse them, but thought this was strange.)

Much the same experience, although I use an 8mm nut driver on the coach
screws and now have an autofeed screwdriver with a square drive bit.
Robertson Head?

To those thinking of undertaking building one;
- buy a good screwdriver

Oh yes!

- have extra hands to assist with aligning boards.

Deffo

- plan it well *before* starting

Absolutely

- it took me approx 30 man hours. (two of us; two good screwdrivers
with spare batteries)

'Desmond' & I would have done a 5 x 4m deck in around 2 x 8 hour days and we
build a lot of decks, so you did well.

Any pictures?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

dmc wrote:
SNIP

I've never had a decent leccy screwdriver and used this as a chance
to buy. Wow....

Ended up with

https://www.screwfix.com/prods/94022...-Twin-Pack-12V

for 120 quid. Very pleased. Only downside is the small capacity
batteries
but with three and the included 20 min charger is wasn't really a
problem.

Same set I bought, well pleased with mine as well.

Impact driver was fantastic (cheers Dave ). Driving in 90mm
turbogold
bolts with no pilot hole to make the frame. Rather surprised at how
many
many battery charges I got through - I'd guess probably 8-10 building
the frame, something similar screwing down the boards.

It does knock 7 bells aout of the batteries, I bought a Makita mains impact
driver to alleviate the problem. Cost about £50, about the same as one
battery.

SNIP

Screwdriver bits:
I bought a 10 pack of screwfix PZ3 bits, expecting them to be
consumables on a job like this. I finished with the same one I
started with. Is this normal? (I generally take good care of tools,
and don't willfully abuse them, but thought this was strange.)

Heh, exactly the same here. I bought a box of 25 dewalt bits in the
screwfix clearance sale. 24 left in the box, one in the impact driver
still fine :-)


To those thinking of undertaking building one;
- buy a good screwdriver

Definatly. I'd recommend the impact driver as well tbh. Well pleased
with
mine although I guess with a bigger screwdriver it might not have
been so essential.

- have extra hands to assist with aligning boards.

Yep. Essential for getting the pergola uprights straight as well

Did you build that yourself as well?

- plan it well *before* starting

Yep. Google Sketchup was surprisingly easy to get the hang of for
mocking stuff up for SWMBO approval. Not used it in anger before -
will certainly
use it again though.

- it took me approx 30 man hours. (two of us; two good screwdrivers
with spare batteries)

Hmmm... Thinking about it it took me and my dad 5 days to get the
bulk of
it done.


Just need it to stop raining so I can build a step and a planter at
the front bring it down to the lawn. Then think about some treament
possibly. Deck
oil or something... Are you planning on doing anything with yours?

I always reccommend decking oil.

http://bogit.com/tmp/deck3.jpg shows the Frame

http://bogit.com/tmp/deck4.jpg with some of the boards on it.

Nice job that.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman coughed up some electrons that declared:

dmc wrote:
SNIP

I've never had a decent leccy screwdriver and used this as a chance
to buy. Wow....

Ended up with


https://www.screwfix.com/prods/94022...-Twin-Pack-12V

for 120 quid. Very pleased. Only downside is the small capacity
batteries
but with three and the included 20 min charger is wasn't really a
problem.

Same set I bought, well pleased with mine as well.

Impact driver was fantastic (cheers Dave ). Driving in 90mm
turbogold
bolts with no pilot hole to make the frame. Rather surprised at how
many
many battery charges I got through - I'd guess probably 8-10 building
the frame, something similar screwing down the boards.

It does knock 7 bells aout of the batteries, I bought a Makita mains
impact
driver to alleviate the problem. Cost about £50, about the same as one
battery.

SNIP

Screwdriver bits:
I bought a 10 pack of screwfix PZ3 bits, expecting them to be
consumables on a job like this. I finished with the same one I
started with. Is this normal? (I generally take good care of tools,
and don't willfully abuse them, but thought this was strange.)

Heh, exactly the same here. I bought a box of 25 dewalt bits in the
screwfix clearance sale. 24 left in the box, one in the impact driver
still fine :-)


To those thinking of undertaking building one;
- buy a good screwdriver

Definatly. I'd recommend the impact driver as well tbh. Well pleased
with
mine although I guess with a bigger screwdriver it might not have
been so essential.

- have extra hands to assist with aligning boards.

Yep. Essential for getting the pergola uprights straight as well

Did you build that yourself as well?

- plan it well *before* starting

Yep. Google Sketchup was surprisingly easy to get the hang of for
mocking stuff up for SWMBO approval. Not used it in anger before -
will certainly
use it again though.

- it took me approx 30 man hours. (two of us; two good screwdrivers
with spare batteries)

Hmmm... Thinking about it it took me and my dad 5 days to get the
bulk of
it done.


Just need it to stop raining so I can build a step and a planter at
the front bring it down to the lawn. Then think about some treament
possibly. Deck
oil or something... Are you planning on doing anything with yours?

I always reccommend decking oil.

http://bogit.com/tmp/deck3.jpg shows the Frame

http://bogit.com/tmp/deck4.jpg with some of the boards on it.

Nice job that.



That frame is beautiful - shame to board it.

Seriously - nice job

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
dmc wrote:

Yep. Essential for getting the pergola uprights straight as well

Did you build that yourself as well?

Came as a kit from Jacksons

http://preview.tinyurl.com/n49oy5

Bit of alteration but nothing major. Very impressed (again) with Jacksons -
not cheap, but the quality is impressive.

I always reccommend decking oil.

How much does that change the colour? I see there are clear ones and a range
of colours. SWMBO doesn't want to change the colour too much - I'd personally
like it a bit darker (like I have a say!)

http://bogit.com/tmp/deck3.jpg shows the Frame

http://bogit.com/tmp/deck4.jpg with some of the boards on it.

Nice job that.

Ta. Your advice and posts over the years gave me the confidence to have
a crack at it. Need to sort out the front and build a step now.

Darren

In article ,
Tim S wrote:

http://bogit.com/tmp/deck3.jpg shows the Frame

http://bogit.com/tmp/deck4.jpg with some of the boards on it.

That frame is beautiful - shame to board it.


I tried to convince SWMBO that. She wasn't convinced :-(

Darren

dmc wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
dmc wrote:

Yep. Essential for getting the pergola uprights straight as well

Did you build that yourself as well?

Came as a kit from Jacksons

http://preview.tinyurl.com/n49oy5

Bit of alteration but nothing major. Very impressed (again) with
Jacksons - not cheap, but the quality is impressive.

I always reccommend decking oil.

How much does that change the colour? I see there are clear ones and
a range of colours. SWMBO doesn't want to change the colour too much
- I'd personally like it a bit darker (like I have a say!)

The clear one is, well, clear, but like all treatments does darken it
slightly. Similar to seeing the boards dry, then wet after rain.


Ta. Your advice and posts over the years gave me the confidence to
have
a crack at it. Need to sort out the front and build a step now.

Glad to have helped.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Tim S wrote:
SNIP


That frame is beautiful - shame to board it.

Seriously - nice job

To be honest, that frame is neater than most of the jobs I do :-)

Commercially, as long as its functional it doesn't matter too much how it
looks because the boards cover it up. We don't measure noggin spacing for
example, just 'we need 4 in there' & space them by eye.

Nice job.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 10 June, 20:29, (dmc) wrote:
In article ,
Michael Murray (HotM) wrote:

snip

I used 2x6 for the frame. It wasn't much more expensive so I went with it.
Across a span of nearly 3m it hardly flexed at all which suprised me. I
added small posts standing on the concrete and then bolted to the deck
frame (8 - 12 inch long depending on the location. 4inch posts).

I was limited by the exit door from the house to a total height of
240mm. 20-odd for the deck boards and then 2 layers of 2x4's (@90mm
each) left me with 40mm for the rubber upstands.


Drill driver v Impact Driver

Ended up with
https://www.screwfix.com/prods/94022...akita-6271DWP3...

Nice. I'm a DeW fan, but regularly have arguments with Makita-fan
mates.


I was luck that the area was 3m wide and the local timber yard could supply
3m boards so very little cutting was required. The 3m boards they offered
were thicker than most I've seen but that seemed to be fine.


I manged to get 5.4m boards locally (Rembrandt Timber for those near
Edinburgh), which meant I had a single board across the width.


Spacing:
the deck boards shrank noticably over the first night. I laid them
with 3mm gaps as they were quite wet. Gap is now easily 5mm.

Can't say I've noticed anything that dramatic - a few of the boards that
weren't screwed down twisted a bit but nothing much.

Screwdriver bits:
Heh, exactly the same here. I bought a box of 25 dewalt bits in the screwfix
clearance sale. 24 left in the box, one in the impact driver still fine :-)


Not just me then !

Deck oil or something... Are you planning on doing anything with yours?

http://bogit.com/tmp/deck3.jpgshows the Frame

http://bogit.com/tmp/deck4.jpgwith some of the boards on it.

Any photos of your handy work? :-)

Hope this helps someone!

Darren

Your pics - Very nice - mine is much less exciting

in progress: http://tinypic.com/r/nn14zk/5
Complete: http://tinypic.com/r/28mft4x/5

Unsure as to finishing yet.

M.

On 10 June, 21:10, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Michael Murray (HotM) wrote:

SNIP

Levelling the supporting beams: I found these:
http://www.easyfix.ie/index.php?page...oustic-systems, bought
a load of them, and would highly recommend them for anyone wanting a
fast way to lay a deck over a solid, but uneven base. (just a happy
user).

Interesting. *Were they very expensive? How do they help level?


I bought them from decksupply.co.uk - a pack of 25 was £35+Vat. They
sell packs of 200 x 3mm shims. So you set up the height you want the
high end at, then simply shim as you go as the ground falls away. The
come in 10 and 30mm heights; packable to another 25mm or so. So they
really only help if your variance on an individial beam/joist is
60ish mm.

Sorry, just to be clear, by '2 layers of 2 x 4' do you mean effectively *an
8 x 2 or a 4 x 4 ?

One layer of 2x4's running 'along' where the old steps ran; then a
further layer laid across these. The Rubber upstands were used over
every 'node' where the two layers crossed. The lower layer ran
parallel to the long edge (and the house, see pics), the upper layer
was at 500-600 centres (5@500 by the door, then 600's for the rest).

in progress: http://tinypic.com/r/nn14zk/5
Complete: http://tinypic.com/r/28mft4x/5

Drill driver v Impact Driver
Agreed about the noise with ID's, mind you if
you are doing decking commercially the extra noise impress's the client :-)


Interesting consideration !


'Desmond' & I would have done a 5 x 4m deck in around 2 x 8 hour days and we
build a lot of decks, so you did well.


I have a kids party this weekend, so time was pretty pressing - there
wasn't much tea or coffee drunk during this one!

Any pictures?

--
Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk

(aside: thanks esp to Dave, but also those who raise all the questions
he and others have asked, prompting all who answer on here. I was
wondering at the weekend - has anyone ever asked a question of uk.d-i-
y that no-one could answer?)

On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:39:45 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Commercially, as long as its functional it doesn't matter too much how it
looks because the boards cover it up. We don't measure noggin spacing for
example, just 'we need 4 in there' & space them by eye.

A common difference between DIY and professional, I think, which possibly
just comes down to time vs. money...

(I built some new shelving / workbenches the other day, and the framework
was a complete work of art - it was frustrating to cover it all up so
that nobody would ever see any of it! :-)

Michael Murray (HotM) wrote:
On 10 June, 20:29, (dmc) wrote:
In article
,
Michael Murray (HotM) wrote:

snip

I used 2x6 for the frame. It wasn't much more expensive so I went
with it. Across a span of nearly 3m it hardly flexed at all which
suprised me. I
added small posts standing on the concrete and then bolted to the
deck
frame (8 - 12 inch long depending on the location. 4inch posts).

I was limited by the exit door from the house to a total height of
240mm. 20-odd for the deck boards and then 2 layers of 2x4's (@90mm
each) left me with 40mm for the rubber upstands.


Drill driver v Impact Driver

Ended up with
https://www.screwfix.com/prods/94022...akita-6271DWP3...

Nice. I'm a DeW fan, but regularly have arguments with Makita-fan
mates.


I was luck that the area was 3m wide and the local timber yard could
supply 3m boards so very little cutting was required. The 3m boards
they offered
were thicker than most I've seen but that seemed to be fine.


I manged to get 5.4m boards locally (Rembrandt Timber for those near
Edinburgh), which meant I had a single board across the width.


Spacing:
the deck boards shrank noticably over the first night. I laid them
with 3mm gaps as they were quite wet. Gap is now easily 5mm.

Can't say I've noticed anything that dramatic - a few of the boards
that weren't screwed down twisted a bit but nothing much.

Screwdriver bits:
Heh, exactly the same here. I bought a box of 25 dewalt bits in the
screwfix clearance sale. 24 left in the box, one in the impact
driver still fine :-)


Not just me then !

Deck oil or something... Are you planning on doing anything with
yours?

http://bogit.com/tmp/deck3.jpgshows the Frame

http://bogit.com/tmp/deck4.jpgwith some of the boards on it.

Any photos of your handy work? :-)

Hope this helps someone!

Darren

Your pics - Very nice - mine is much less exciting

in progress: http://tinypic.com/r/nn14zk/5
Complete: http://tinypic.com/r/28mft4x/5

Another nice job.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk