I wonder if anyone can help. I need to fix 15 x 2 metre long metal rails
("T" section) vertically to a concrete wall. I'll be using those 'self
tapping' bolts that require a 6mm hammerdrill bit. I will need to drill 8
holes in each rail.

Q.1. How much larger will the rail holes need to be 6.5, 7.00, 7.5mm Etc?

Q.2. Nowadays, which drill bit manufacturer is considered high quality?

Q.3. Is there a good, reliable on-line source to the above? Many thanks.

Bertie Doe wrote:
I wonder if anyone can help. I need to fix 15 x 2 metre long metal rails
("T" section) vertically to a concrete wall. I'll be using those 'self
tapping' bolts that require a 6mm hammerdrill bit. I will need to drill
8 holes in each rail.

Q.1. How much larger will the rail holes need to be 6.5, 7.00, 7.5mm Etc?

Q.2. Nowadays, which drill bit manufacturer is considered high quality?

Q.3. Is there a good, reliable on-line source to the above? Many thanks.


Answer to Q.1. is likely to be found where you get the bolts from. Such
things do vary by design/make.

Assuming 'hammerdrill' means non-SDS, answer to Q.2. - with 120 holes to
drill - has to be none. Use an SDS drill if the wall is real concrete
and sound, anything else will take a long time. Previously posted
opinion is that most SDS bits are of acceptable quality and I have no
reason to disagree.

Answer to Q.3. could start with Screwfix and Toolstation and include
dozens of others. E.g.

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/75870/Drill-Bits/SDS-Plus/Titan-SDS-Plus-Drill-Bits/Titan-SDS-Plus-Drill-Bit-6-0-x-110mm

Cheap enough to buy a couple if you are worried...

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Thanks Rod, just to recap, I don't need hammerdrill bits as I have a couple
of good quality 6mm hammerdrill bits already. However, I will need to drill
holes in the steel rails. These steel rails are 5mm thick.

I assume these holes will need to be larger than the 6mm bolts, so how much
oversize? + 0.5, 1mm etc?

The most expensive HSS drills sold at the local DIY store are Bosch. Which
manufacturer is concidered higher quality than Bosch, if anyone can throw
some names at me. I can then google for an online supplier. TIA.

Bertie

Bertie Doe wrote:
I wonder if anyone can help. I need to fix 15 x 2 metre long metal
rails ("T" section) vertically to a concrete wall. I'll be using
those 'self tapping' bolts that require a 6mm hammerdrill bit. I will
need to drill 8 holes in each rail.

If you are using Multi Montis requiring a 6mm hole, then I assume you are
using the 7.5mm size? Eight of those per rail? What on earth is the load?
The QE2? :-)

Q.1. How much larger will the rail holes need to be 6.5, 7.00, 7.5mm
Etc?

Manufacturers spec says 9mm for a 7.5mm MM.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/45200/...-6-Pack-of-50#
and click on the Instruction Manual link.

Q.2. Nowadays, which drill bit manufacturer is considered high
quality?

Non SDS masonry bits I reckon the Bosch Multi Material bits are the best. If
the wall is concrete your gonna need an SDS drill.

Q.3. Is there a good, reliable on-line source to the above? Many
thanks.

Screwfix.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Bertie Doe wrote:
Thanks Rod, just to recap, I don't need hammerdrill bits as I have a couple
of good quality 6mm hammerdrill bits already. However, I will need to drill
holes in the steel rails. These steel rails are 5mm thick.

I assume these holes will need to be larger than the 6mm bolts, so how much
oversize? + 0.5, 1mm etc?

The most expensive HSS drills sold at the local DIY store are Bosch. Which
manufacturer is concidered higher quality than Bosch, if anyone can throw
some names at me. I can then google for an online supplier. TIA.

Bertie

then you need standard twist drills. I'd definitely go for titanium
ones rather than HSS, they stay sharp far longer, a big time & hassle
saver. IIRC screwfix do single sizes in packs of 10.


NT

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 19:46:37 +0100, Bertie Doe wrote:

Thanks Rod, just to recap, I don't need hammerdrill bits as I have a
couple of good quality 6mm hammerdrill bits already.

Don't ignore the advice to use SDS for the wall holes. Each 6mm hole with
an SDS drill will be seconds in all but the most seriously hard materials.
Your bog standard "hammerdrill" will take considerably longer and with 120
to drill it all adds up...

Can't help on a make of twist drill for the steel but bear in mind that
they will only be sharp out of the packet/box not *SHARP*. I was amazed at
the difference it made to my twist drills after I introduced them to
martek drill sharpener... Also with 120 holes to drill in 5mm steel a
cheap pillar drill and drill press vice might be worth while. You'll get
far more accurately positioned and drilled holes compared to a handheld
drill with much less effort.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Update
Popped into the DIY shop and the 'self-tapping' bolts I referred to in my
opening post are called Thunderbolts and are similar to Dave TMH's Multi
Monti :
http://preview.tinyurl.com/mw9sdk

A neighbour has offered his SDS Hammerdrill, so the only outstanding problem
will be drilling 8mm holes in the rails. I'll phone around and get a price
for a machine shop to drill 120 holes. If it's expensive it may be worth
considering DL's thoughts on a pillar drill, especially if the missus wants
the other wall fenced in 2 years time.

I'm not savvy enough to risk buying 2nd hand, but are the following beefy
enough to manage (in stages) 8mm holes in 5mm thick rail?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/b8lqzx
Titan SF13N at £60 or the SF16N-9 at £80

http://preview.tinyurl.com/nevqzc
Silverline 350w at £57

http://preview.tinyurl.com/krm6hx
Axminster ND12 at £73 inc delivery

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:38:09 +0100, "Bertie Doe" wrote:


Q.1. How much larger will the rail holes need to be 6.5, 7.00, 7.5mm Etc?

How accurate, position-wise will your drilling be in the wall?
Presumably you will be pre-drilling the rails with a pillar drill, after
precisely popping all the positions.
So if I were doing it, I would drill the holes in all the rails 1mm oversize
except for one which would get used as a template for the wall drilling so just
a 0.1 mm oversize.
Of course I have trouble getting 3 holes to line up for an aerial mast bracket
so my advice is worth all I'm charging...


--
Geo

On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 21:07:28 +0100, Bertie Doe wrote:

I'll phone around and get a price for a machine shop to drill 120 holes.
If it's expensive it may be worth considering DL's thoughts on a pillar
drill, especially if the missus wants the other wall fenced in 2 years
time.

Shouldn't be much more than a mornings work for one man, so (pulling
figures from thin air) change from £100?

That's assuming you have marked up where you want the holes at least along
the rails. I'd position the press vice for the across dimension and lock
the vice down to the table. Then just slide the rail through the vice to
the correct linear position.

I'm not savvy enough to risk buying 2nd hand, but are the following
beefy enough to manage (in stages) 8mm holes in 5mm thick rail?

All the sub £100 ones are much of a muchness IMHO. I've a £39 jobbie from
B&Q, works well enough for my use and is a damn site better for drilling
neat holes than a handheld power drill or hand drill. It's not overly
repeatable from one setup to another and back but that is what you pay the
mega bucks for, calibrated dials and movements without backlash. With care
mine is perfectly acceptable though.

--
Cheers
Dave.

All the sub £100 ones are much of a muchness IMHO. I've a £39 jobbie from
B&Q, works well enough for my use and is a damn site better for drilling
neat holes than a handheld power drill or hand drill. It's not overly
repeatable from one setup to another and back but that is what you pay the
mega bucks for, calibrated dials and movements without backlash. With care
mine is perfectly acceptable though.

--
Cheers
Dave.


Agreed. One of those tools that you may not use often, but well worth it for
that job. Use one of the slower speed settings. Use one of those quick
action woodworking clamps to hold the workpiece down.

Bertie Doe wrote:
Update
Popped into the DIY shop and the 'self-tapping' bolts I referred to
in my opening post are called Thunderbolts and are similar to Dave
TMH's Multi Monti :
http://preview.tinyurl.com/mw9sdk

A neighbour has offered his SDS Hammerdrill, so the only outstanding
problem will be drilling 8mm holes in the rails. I'll phone around
and get a price for a machine shop to drill 120 holes. If it's
expensive it may be worth considering DL's thoughts on a pillar
drill, especially if the missus wants the other wall fenced in 2
years time.
I'm not savvy enough to risk buying 2nd hand, but are the following
beefy enough to manage (in stages) 8mm holes in 5mm thick rail?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/b8lqzx
Titan SF13N at £60 or the SF16N-9 at £80

http://preview.tinyurl.com/nevqzc
Silverline 350w at £57

http://preview.tinyurl.com/krm6hx
Axminster ND12 at £73 inc delivery

I'd go for the latter but direct from Axminster
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-A...rill-21711.htm
even if a few quid dearer.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Geo wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:38:09 +0100, "Bertie Doe"
wrote:


Q.1. How much larger will the rail holes need to be 6.5, 7.00, 7.5mm
Etc?

How accurate, position-wise will your drilling be in the wall?
Presumably you will be pre-drilling the rails with a pillar drill,
after precisely popping all the positions.
So if I were doing it, I would drill the holes in all the rails 1mm
oversize except for one which would get used as a template for the
wall drilling so just a 0.1 mm oversize.
Of course I have trouble getting 3 holes to line up for an aerial
mast bracket so my advice is worth all I'm charging...

If the holes in the brackets are drilled at 9mm, which would be right for
multi montis, then the proceedure would be to mark & drill the top hole,
insert the fixing loosely, check for level & mark the other fixing points.
Move rail aside then drill the other holes.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Bertie Doe wrote:
Update
Popped into the DIY shop and the 'self-tapping' bolts I referred to in my
opening post are called Thunderbolts and are similar to Dave TMH's Multi
Monti :
http://preview.tinyurl.com/mw9sdk

A neighbour has offered his SDS Hammerdrill, so the only outstanding problem
will be drilling 8mm holes in the rails. I'll phone around and get a price
for a machine shop to drill 120 holes. If it's expensive it may be worth
considering DL's thoughts on a pillar drill, especially if the missus wants
the other wall fenced in 2 years time.

I'm not savvy enough to risk buying 2nd hand, but are the following beefy
enough to manage (in stages) 8mm holes in 5mm thick rail?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/b8lqzx
Titan SF13N at �60 or the SF16N-9 at �80

http://preview.tinyurl.com/nevqzc
Silverline 350w at �57

http://preview.tinyurl.com/krm6hx
Axminster ND12 at �73 inc delivery


I'd definitely use a pillar drill. I've only used industrial ones, so
dont know about those models. But I've noticed pillar drills tend to
have much lower power ratings than handhelds, in the 250-500w region,
and they still do the job fine. You'll need to clamp the rails, an 8mm
hole is a lot of workpiece-swinging torque. And of course select the
appropriate belt position for the job - you'll need to consult a
drilling speed table to find the optimum speed.

So you save £100 less £40 for a morning's work and you end up with
another tool.


NT

On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 22:42:43 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

If the holes in the brackets are drilled at 9mm, which would be right for
multi montis, then the proceedure would be to mark & drill the top hole,
insert the fixing loosely, check for level & mark the other fixing points.
Move rail aside then drill the other holes.

Makes more sense Dave - Ive never done a vertical railway before...

--
Geo

On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 22:37:51 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/krm6hx
Axminster ND12 at £73 inc delivery

I'd go for the latter but direct from Axminster

er that eBay seller *is* Axminster or if they aren't they use the same
freephone number and link to the Axminster site from the About Me page....

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Newshound" wrote in message
...

All the sub £100 ones are much of a muchness IMHO. I've a £39 jobbie from
B&Q, works well enough for my use and is a damn site better for drilling
neat holes than a handheld power drill or hand drill. It's not overly
repeatable from one setup to another and back but that is what you pay
the
mega bucks for, calibrated dials and movements without backlash. With
care
mine is perfectly acceptable though.

--
Cheers
Dave.


Agreed. One of those tools that you may not use often, but well worth it
for that job. Use one of the slower speed settings. Use one of those quick
action woodworking clamps to hold the workpiece down.

Following on from TMH and if I were to go for the Ax MD12, I guess this vice
would do the job? http://preview.tinyurl.com/l4ok2l

On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 10:11:44 +0100, Bertie Doe wrote:

Following on from TMH and if I were to go for the Ax MD12, I guess this
vice would do the job? http://preview.tinyurl.com/l4ok2l

It says it's made from "medium weight die castings" I'd rather have a lump
of cast iron...

A gotcha with drill press vices is the matching the spacing of the slots
for the fixing bolts with the slots/holes in the drill press table. They
don't normally come with nuts/bolts either niether do the drill press's,
at least the cheap ones.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article et,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
A gotcha with drill press vices is the matching the spacing of the slots
for the fixing bolts with the slots/holes in the drill press table. They
don't normally come with nuts/bolts either niether do the drill press's,
at least the cheap ones.

Yup - it's weird they're not to a standard.

--
*Your kid may be an honours student, but you're still an idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:11:44 +0100, Bertie Doe wrote:


"Newshound" wrote in message
...

All the sub £100 ones are much of a muchness IMHO. I've a £39 jobbie
from B&Q, works well enough for my use and is a damn site better for
drilling neat holes than a handheld power drill or hand drill. It's not
overly repeatable from one setup to another and back but that is what
you pay the
mega bucks for, calibrated dials and movements without backlash. With
care
mine is perfectly acceptable though.

--
Cheers
Dave.


Agreed. One of those tools that you may not use often, but well worth it
for that job. Use one of the slower speed settings. Use one of those
quick action woodworking clamps to hold the workpiece down.

Following on from TMH and if I were to go for the Ax MD12, I guess this
vice would do the job? http://preview.tinyurl.com/l4ok2l

==========================================

A vice isn't necessarily the best tool for this job. A short length of
angle iron suitably drilled and bolted as a guide to the drill's worktable
makes for much quicker and easier working. You'll need a support (or
two) for your rails when they overhang the table but you should be able to
hold the rails to the guide by hand but with a mole grip if you find that
the drill is snagging.

Cic.

--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

Geo wrote:
On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 22:42:43 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

If the holes in the brackets are drilled at 9mm, which would be
right for multi montis, then the proceedure would be to mark & drill
the top hole, insert the fixing loosely, check for level & mark the
other fixing points. Move rail aside then drill the other holes.

Makes more sense Dave - Ive never done a vertical railway before...

I was wondering what the application was as well :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"Cicero" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:11:44 +0100, Bertie Doe wrote:


Agreed. One of those tools that you may not use often, but well worth it
for that job. Use one of the slower speed settings. Use one of those
quick action woodworking clamps to hold the workpiece down.

Following on from TMH and if I were to go for the Ax MD12, I guess this
vice would do the job? http://preview.tinyurl.com/l4ok2l

==========================================

A vice isn't necessarily the best tool for this job. A short length of
angle iron suitably drilled and bolted as a guide to the drill's worktable
makes for much quicker and easier working. You'll need a support (or
two) for your rails when they overhang the table but you should be able to
hold the rails to the guide by hand but with a mole grip if you find that
the drill is snagging.


Yes on second thoughts, the vice would be ok for shortish jobs, the rails
are 6 feet long.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
Geo wrote:
On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 22:42:43 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

If the holes in the brackets are drilled at 9mm, which would be
right for multi montis, then the proceedure would be to mark & drill
the top hole, insert the fixing loosely, check for level & mark the
other fixing points. Move rail aside then drill the other holes.

Makes more sense Dave - Ive never done a vertical railway before...

I was wondering what the application was as well :-)


The party wall is 5" thick concrete, approx 3' high. The idea is to fix 3'
high by 4' wide wooden panels on top of the concrete wall. I say "approx"
because the wall varies in height. There is a 10 : 1 slope and the wall was
built with 6 steps, to compensate for the slope.

So each of the 14 panels will have to be tailor-made. Each panel will
consist of a frame, made from 2" x 1" planed. The frame will be routed, to
allow 9mm tongue and grooved, to be inserted - horizontally.

I'll fix the 2 end rails (60' apart), as a guide or reference point, for the
remaining panels. There's no rush, I could pace myself at say 3 panels per
weekend. Each rail will be 6', the bottom half will have 4 x 9mm holes
(staggered) for the thunderbolts (multi montis) and the top half will have 4
x 4mm holes, to fix the wooden frames/panels with s/s nuts and bolts. First,
I have to disassemble a 1" thick concrete coal bunker and move it to my
allotment, 30 yards away. I'll have the biggest composter in the road -.
Thanks all.

Bertie

On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:33:18 +0100, Bertie Doe wrote:

you should be able to hold the rails to the guide by hand but with a
mole grip if you find that the drill is snagging.

Yes on second thoughts, the vice would be ok for shortish jobs, the
rails are 6 feet long.

You only need to slacken the vice and slide the rail between the jaws. I'd
rather have the work properly fixed than have my fingers near the drill or
get in the way of the end of 6' bar wanged round at a few tens of rpm when
the drill binds.

I've held stuff in the past but having "got away" without injury when the
drill bound a coulle of times I'm a little more careful now.

With long stuff the hardest holes to drill are those near the ends as the
work won't balance on the drill table. Those neare the middle aren't so
bad.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice"
You only need to slacken the vice and slide the rail between the jaws. I'd
rather have the work properly fixed than have my fingers near the drill or
get in the way of the end of 6' bar wanged round at a few tens of rpm when
the drill binds.

I've held stuff in the past but having "got away" without injury when the
drill bound a coulle of times I'm a little more careful now.

With long stuff the hardest holes to drill are those near the ends as the
work won't balance on the drill table. Those neare the middle aren't so
bad.


Thanks Dave, if I ended up with a broken finger, I'd have wished I'd spent
the tenner!

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 08:48:36 +0100, Bertie Doe wrote:


"Dave Liquorice"
You only need to slacken the vice and slide the rail between the jaws.
I'd rather have the work properly fixed than have my fingers near the
drill or get in the way of the end of 6' bar wanged round at a few tens
of rpm when the drill binds.

I've held stuff in the past but having "got away" without injury when
the drill bound a coulle of times I'm a little more careful now.

With long stuff the hardest holes to drill are those near the ends as
the work won't balance on the drill table. Those neare the middle aren't
so bad.


Thanks Dave, if I ended up with a broken finger, I'd have wished I'd spent
the tenner!

==========================================

Certainly buy a vice because they have lots of uses, but give the angle
iron fence a try as well. There's no real risk involved provided that you
use a normal standard of care, and it will be quicker for your immediate
job.

Cic.

--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 23:09:12 +0100, Bertie Doe wrote:

The party wall is 5" thick concrete, approx 3' high. The idea is to fix
3' high by 4' wide wooden panels on top of the concrete wall.

Will the wall take the extra windage? Is it reinforced cast concrete or
brick/blocks rendered? I'd be concerned about a brick/block wall failing
at the joint below the rails and the whole lot just blowing over.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Cicero" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 08:48:36 +0100, Bertie Doe wrote:


"Dave Liquorice"
You only need to slacken the vice and slide the rail between the jaws.
I'd rather have the work properly fixed than have my fingers near the
drill or get in the way of the end of 6' bar wanged round at a few tens
of rpm when the drill binds.

I've held stuff in the past but having "got away" without injury when
the drill bound a coulle of times I'm a little more careful now.

With long stuff the hardest holes to drill are those near the ends as
the work won't balance on the drill table. Those neare the middle aren't
so bad.


Thanks Dave, if I ended up with a broken finger, I'd have wished I'd
spent
the tenner!

==========================================

Certainly buy a vice because they have lots of uses, but give the angle
iron fence a try as well. There's no real risk involved provided that you
use a normal standard of care, and it will be quicker for your immediate
job.

Cic.


Thanks Cic, but I need to persuade the wife to go for the pillar drill.
Local machine shops are a bit cagey as to pricing the job. They are quoting
£30 per hour, but won't estimate just how long they think the job will take.

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:16:45 +0100, Bertie Doe wrote:


"Cicero" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 08:48:36 +0100, Bertie Doe wrote:


"Dave Liquorice"
You only need to slacken the vice and slide the rail between the jaws.
I'd rather have the work properly fixed than have my fingers near the
drill or get in the way of the end of 6' bar wanged round at a few
tens of rpm when the drill binds.

I've held stuff in the past but having "got away" without injury when
the drill bound a coulle of times I'm a little more careful now.

With long stuff the hardest holes to drill are those near the ends as
the work won't balance on the drill table. Those neare the middle
aren't so bad.


Thanks Dave, if I ended up with a broken finger, I'd have wished I'd
spent
the tenner!

==========================================

Certainly buy a vice because they have lots of uses, but give the angle
iron fence a try as well. There's no real risk involved provided that
you use a normal standard of care, and it will be quicker for your
immediate job.

Cic.


Thanks Cic, but I need to persuade the wife to go for the pillar drill.
Local machine shops are a bit cagey as to pricing the job. They are
quoting £30 per hour, but won't estimate just how long they think the job
will take.

=========================================

I meant the angle iron guide fence I suggested for your soon-to-be
acquired pillar drill.

The ninety holes you require shouldn't take much over an hour (possibly
less) for a machine shop but for little more than the price they're
charging you could have your own drill press for present and future use.

If you can persuade the wife to wear a pair of gloves to help with
supporting the long lengths you'll have the job done in no time. Start
with 1/8" pilot holes and work up to final hole size.

Cic.

--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

"Cicero" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:16:45 +0100, Bertie Doe wrote:


"Cicero" wrote in message
news
==========================================

Certainly buy a vice because they have lots of uses, but give the angle
iron fence a try as well. There's no real risk involved provided that
you use a normal standard of care, and it will be quicker for your
immediate job.

Cic.


Thanks Cic, but I need to persuade the wife to go for the pillar drill.
Local machine shops are a bit cagey as to pricing the job. They are
quoting £30 per hour, but won't estimate just how long they think the job
will take.

=========================================

I meant the angle iron guide fence I suggested for your soon-to-be
acquired pillar drill.

The ninety holes you require shouldn't take much over an hour (possibly
less) for a machine shop but for little more than the price they're
charging you could have your own drill press for present and future use.

If you can persuade the wife to wear a pair of gloves to help with
supporting the long lengths you'll have the job done in no time. Start
with 1/8" pilot holes and work up to final hole size.

Cic.


Good idea, it's 15 rails X 8 holes giving a total of 120 holes. I assume a
machine shop will also need to do pilot holes also, so they may 'round up'
to 2 hours work. In 2011, the wife wants the other boundary wall/fence done,
so a pillar is a good long-term investment.

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 09:32:22 GMT, Cicero wrote:

The ninety holes you require shouldn't take much over an hour (possibly
less) for a machine shop

45s per hole? Not including changing the rails, drilling pilots etc,
though a machine shop may well be able to do 8mm straight off.

Sensible timimg is more like 3 to 4 hours.

but for little more than the price they're charging you could have your
own drill press for present and future use.

I agree that the machine shop price looks to be more than the cost of a
small drill press and vice. One assumes the OP has a suitable bench it can
be bolted down to of course.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 23:09:12 +0100, Bertie Doe wrote:

The party wall is 5" thick concrete, approx 3' high. The idea is to fix
3' high by 4' wide wooden panels on top of the concrete wall.

Will the wall take the extra windage? Is it reinforced cast concrete or
brick/blocks rendered? I'd be concerned about a brick/block wall failing
at the joint below the rails and the whole lot just blowing over.


It was built before I moved in. It looks to be concrete blocks, concreted
onto 9" x 2' deep footings. 2 of my neighbours use the above method and so
far, they've lasted about 10 years. I think they use Cuprinol every Winter.

The main casualties in the area are a couple of featherboard panel fences.
First the timber supports rot, then they blow over.

In article et,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
I agree that the machine shop price looks to be more than the cost of a
small drill press and vice. One assumes the OP has a suitable bench it
can be bolted down to of course.

I bought an el cheapo from B&Q years ago - one of the first at an
affordable price, for me anyway. And I'd say it gets more use than any
other power pool I have. It's not the most powerful of such things having
a small induction motor so I have it on the slowest speed all the time. It
would take several goes to do 8mm in steel. ;-)

--
*If you can't see my mirrors, I'm doing my hair*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

p.s. the concrete wall is strengthened with 7 piers.

Bertie

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 13:13:10 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article et,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
I agree that the machine shop price looks to be more than the cost of a
small drill press and vice. One assumes the OP has a suitable bench it
can be bolted down to of course.

I bought an el cheapo from B&Q years ago - one of the first at an
affordable price, for me anyway. And I'd say it gets more use than any
other power pool I have. It's not the most powerful of such things having
a small induction motor so I have it on the slowest speed all the time. It
would take several goes to do 8mm in steel. ;-)

I've one that just takes a drill, so the Bosch can be put in - bit more
oomph than a cheap unit. It's also more versatile, e.g. pressing in head
bearings squarely.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

In article ,
PeterC wrote:
I bought an el cheapo from B&Q years ago - one of the first at an
affordable price, for me anyway. And I'd say it gets more use than any
other power pool I have. It's not the most powerful of such things
having a small induction motor so I have it on the slowest speed all
the time. It would take several goes to do 8mm in steel. ;-)

I've one that just takes a drill, so the Bosch can be put in - bit more
oomph than a cheap unit. It's also more versatile, e.g. pressing in head
bearings squarely.

Drill stands which take an ordinary power drill can be useful - but aren't
anywhere as accurate as a pillar drill. And most drills run too fast for
this sort of use anyway.

--
*I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article et,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
I agree that the machine shop price looks to be more than the cost of a
small drill press and vice. One assumes the OP has a suitable bench it
can be bolted down to of course.

I bought an el cheapo from B&Q years ago - one of the first at an
affordable price, for me anyway. And I'd say it gets more use than any
other power pool I have. It's not the most powerful of such things having
a small induction motor so I have it on the slowest speed all the time. It
would take several goes to do 8mm in steel. ;-)


I think B&Q are leaving Homebase behind in the dust, in terms of product
range. Am I alone in thinking HB are highly overpriced?
15mm chrome compression fitting, local store 99p - Homebase £2.99p
2.5m red/blue w/machine inlet hose, local £1.49 - Homebase £4.99p

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 11:45:03 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 09:32:22 GMT, Cicero wrote:

The ninety holes you require shouldn't take much over an hour (possibly
less) for a machine shop

45s per hole? Not including changing the rails, drilling pilots etc,
though a machine shop may well be able to do 8mm straight off.

Sensible timimg is more like 3 to 4 hours.

but for little more than the price they're charging you could have your
own drill press for present and future use.

I agree that the machine shop price looks to be more than the cost of a
small drill press and vice. One assumes the OP has a suitable bench it can
be bolted down to of course.

==========================================

If my estimated time is seriously wrong (can't be sure without reference
to Guinness Book of Records) it improves the case for buying the tool to
do the job. I doubt if I would need 3 or 4 hours to drill 90 holes (or
corrected to 120) on my elderly machine so probably somewhere between my
estimate for a heavy duty machine shop drill and mine. At £60-00 approx.
it really doesn't make sense to pay someone to do the job when you can buy
a tool to do it yourself at a more leisurely pace.

Cic.

--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:02:08 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
PeterC wrote:
I bought an el cheapo from B&Q years ago - one of the first at an
affordable price, for me anyway. And I'd say it gets more use than any
other power pool I have. It's not the most powerful of such things
having a small induction motor so I have it on the slowest speed all
the time. It would take several goes to do 8mm in steel. ;-)

I've one that just takes a drill, so the Bosch can be put in - bit more
oomph than a cheap unit. It's also more versatile, e.g. pressing in head
bearings squarely.

Drill stands which take an ordinary power drill can be useful - but aren't
anywhere as accurate as a pillar drill.

Agreed - but better than hand-held.

And most drills run too fast for
this sort of use anyway.

The Bosch can run nice and slowly. The stand won't, of course, take the SDS
- just as well, the drills heavier than the stand!
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

Bertie Doe wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article et,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
I agree that the machine shop price looks to be more than the cost
of a small drill press and vice. One assumes the OP has a suitable
bench it can be bolted down to of course.

I bought an el cheapo from B&Q years ago - one of the first at an
affordable price, for me anyway. And I'd say it gets more use than
any other power pool I have. It's not the most powerful of such
things having a small induction motor so I have it on the slowest
speed all the time. It would take several goes to do 8mm in steel.
;-)

I think B&Q are leaving Homebase behind in the dust, in terms of
product range. Am I alone in thinking HB are highly overpriced?
15mm chrome compression fitting, local store 99p - Homebase £2.99p
2.5m red/blue w/machine inlet hose, local £1.49 - Homebase £4.99p

Rarely if ever use Homobase, never mind green dungarees, the staff should
wear stripey jumpers, berets, masks & carry bags marked 'swag'.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
PeterC wrote:
Drill stands which take an ordinary power drill can be useful - but
aren't anywhere as accurate as a pillar drill.

Agreed - but better than hand-held.

Oh yus.

And most drills run too fast for
this sort of use anyway.

The Bosch can run nice and slowly. The stand won't, of course, take the
SDS - just as well, the drills heavier than the stand! --

I use 150 rpm for everything. Very few mains drills will run that slow
without the smoke magician asserting his influence.

My SDS drill with the chuck adaptor to use ordinary drills is even more
sloppy than a normal drill in a stand. ;-)

--
*One nice thing about egotists: they don't talk about other people.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.