I wonder if anyone can help. I need to fix 15 x 2 metre long metal rails
("T" section) vertically to a concrete wall. I'll be using those 'self
tapping' bolts that require a 6mm hammerdrill bit. I will need to drill 8
holes in each rail.

Q.1. How much larger will the rail holes need to be 6.5, 7.00, 7.5mm Etc?

Q.2. Nowadays, which drill bit manufacturer is considered high quality?

Q.3. Is there a good, reliable on-line source to the above? Many thanks.

Bertie Doe wrote:
I wonder if anyone can help. I need to fix 15 x 2 metre long metal rails
("T" section) vertically to a concrete wall. I'll be using those 'self
tapping' bolts that require a 6mm hammerdrill bit. I will need to drill
8 holes in each rail.

Q.1. How much larger will the rail holes need to be 6.5, 7.00, 7.5mm Etc?

Q.2. Nowadays, which drill bit manufacturer is considered high quality?

Q.3. Is there a good, reliable on-line source to the above? Many thanks.


Answer to Q.1. is likely to be found where you get the bolts from. Such
things do vary by design/make.

Assuming 'hammerdrill' means non-SDS, answer to Q.2. - with 120 holes to
drill - has to be none. Use an SDS drill if the wall is real concrete
and sound, anything else will take a long time. Previously posted
opinion is that most SDS bits are of acceptable quality and I have no
reason to disagree.

Answer to Q.3. could start with Screwfix and Toolstation and include
dozens of others. E.g.

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/75870/Drill-Bits/SDS-Plus/Titan-SDS-Plus-Drill-Bits/Titan-SDS-Plus-Drill-Bit-6-0-x-110mm

Cheap enough to buy a couple if you are worried...

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Thanks Rod, just to recap, I don't need hammerdrill bits as I have a couple
of good quality 6mm hammerdrill bits already. However, I will need to drill
holes in the steel rails. These steel rails are 5mm thick.

I assume these holes will need to be larger than the 6mm bolts, so how much
oversize? + 0.5, 1mm etc?

The most expensive HSS drills sold at the local DIY store are Bosch. Which
manufacturer is concidered higher quality than Bosch, if anyone can throw
some names at me. I can then google for an online supplier. TIA.

Bertie

Bertie Doe wrote:
Thanks Rod, just to recap, I don't need hammerdrill bits as I have a couple
of good quality 6mm hammerdrill bits already. However, I will need to drill
holes in the steel rails. These steel rails are 5mm thick.

I assume these holes will need to be larger than the 6mm bolts, so how much
oversize? + 0.5, 1mm etc?

The most expensive HSS drills sold at the local DIY store are Bosch. Which
manufacturer is concidered higher quality than Bosch, if anyone can throw
some names at me. I can then google for an online supplier. TIA.

Bertie

then you need standard twist drills. I'd definitely go for titanium
ones rather than HSS, they stay sharp far longer, a big time & hassle
saver. IIRC screwfix do single sizes in packs of 10.


NT

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 19:46:37 +0100, Bertie Doe wrote:

Thanks Rod, just to recap, I don't need hammerdrill bits as I have a
couple of good quality 6mm hammerdrill bits already.

Don't ignore the advice to use SDS for the wall holes. Each 6mm hole with
an SDS drill will be seconds in all but the most seriously hard materials.
Your bog standard "hammerdrill" will take considerably longer and with 120
to drill it all adds up...

Can't help on a make of twist drill for the steel but bear in mind that
they will only be sharp out of the packet/box not *SHARP*. I was amazed at
the difference it made to my twist drills after I introduced them to
martek drill sharpener... Also with 120 holes to drill in 5mm steel a
cheap pillar drill and drill press vice might be worth while. You'll get
far more accurately positioned and drilled holes compared to a handheld
drill with much less effort.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Bertie Doe wrote:
I wonder if anyone can help. I need to fix 15 x 2 metre long metal
rails ("T" section) vertically to a concrete wall. I'll be using
those 'self tapping' bolts that require a 6mm hammerdrill bit. I will
need to drill 8 holes in each rail.

If you are using Multi Montis requiring a 6mm hole, then I assume you are
using the 7.5mm size? Eight of those per rail? What on earth is the load?
The QE2? :-)

Q.1. How much larger will the rail holes need to be 6.5, 7.00, 7.5mm
Etc?

Manufacturers spec says 9mm for a 7.5mm MM.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/45200/...-6-Pack-of-50#
and click on the Instruction Manual link.

Q.2. Nowadays, which drill bit manufacturer is considered high
quality?

Non SDS masonry bits I reckon the Bosch Multi Material bits are the best. If
the wall is concrete your gonna need an SDS drill.

Q.3. Is there a good, reliable on-line source to the above? Many
thanks.

Screwfix.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Update
Popped into the DIY shop and the 'self-tapping' bolts I referred to in my
opening post are called Thunderbolts and are similar to Dave TMH's Multi
Monti :
http://preview.tinyurl.com/mw9sdk

A neighbour has offered his SDS Hammerdrill, so the only outstanding problem
will be drilling 8mm holes in the rails. I'll phone around and get a price
for a machine shop to drill 120 holes. If it's expensive it may be worth
considering DL's thoughts on a pillar drill, especially if the missus wants
the other wall fenced in 2 years time.

I'm not savvy enough to risk buying 2nd hand, but are the following beefy
enough to manage (in stages) 8mm holes in 5mm thick rail?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/b8lqzx
Titan SF13N at £60 or the SF16N-9 at £80

http://preview.tinyurl.com/nevqzc
Silverline 350w at £57

http://preview.tinyurl.com/krm6hx
Axminster ND12 at £73 inc delivery

On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 21:07:28 +0100, Bertie Doe wrote:

I'll phone around and get a price for a machine shop to drill 120 holes.
If it's expensive it may be worth considering DL's thoughts on a pillar
drill, especially if the missus wants the other wall fenced in 2 years
time.

Shouldn't be much more than a mornings work for one man, so (pulling
figures from thin air) change from £100?

That's assuming you have marked up where you want the holes at least along
the rails. I'd position the press vice for the across dimension and lock
the vice down to the table. Then just slide the rail through the vice to
the correct linear position.

I'm not savvy enough to risk buying 2nd hand, but are the following
beefy enough to manage (in stages) 8mm holes in 5mm thick rail?

All the sub £100 ones are much of a muchness IMHO. I've a £39 jobbie from
B&Q, works well enough for my use and is a damn site better for drilling
neat holes than a handheld power drill or hand drill. It's not overly
repeatable from one setup to another and back but that is what you pay the
mega bucks for, calibrated dials and movements without backlash. With care
mine is perfectly acceptable though.

--
Cheers
Dave.

All the sub £100 ones are much of a muchness IMHO. I've a £39 jobbie from
B&Q, works well enough for my use and is a damn site better for drilling
neat holes than a handheld power drill or hand drill. It's not overly
repeatable from one setup to another and back but that is what you pay the
mega bucks for, calibrated dials and movements without backlash. With care
mine is perfectly acceptable though.

--
Cheers
Dave.


Agreed. One of those tools that you may not use often, but well worth it for
that job. Use one of the slower speed settings. Use one of those quick
action woodworking clamps to hold the workpiece down.

"Newshound" wrote in message
...

All the sub £100 ones are much of a muchness IMHO. I've a £39 jobbie from
B&Q, works well enough for my use and is a damn site better for drilling
neat holes than a handheld power drill or hand drill. It's not overly
repeatable from one setup to another and back but that is what you pay
the
mega bucks for, calibrated dials and movements without backlash. With
care
mine is perfectly acceptable though.

--
Cheers
Dave.


Agreed. One of those tools that you may not use often, but well worth it
for that job. Use one of the slower speed settings. Use one of those quick
action woodworking clamps to hold the workpiece down.

Following on from TMH and if I were to go for the Ax MD12, I guess this vice
would do the job? http://preview.tinyurl.com/l4ok2l

Bertie Doe wrote:
Update
Popped into the DIY shop and the 'self-tapping' bolts I referred to
in my opening post are called Thunderbolts and are similar to Dave
TMH's Multi Monti :
http://preview.tinyurl.com/mw9sdk

A neighbour has offered his SDS Hammerdrill, so the only outstanding
problem will be drilling 8mm holes in the rails. I'll phone around
and get a price for a machine shop to drill 120 holes. If it's
expensive it may be worth considering DL's thoughts on a pillar
drill, especially if the missus wants the other wall fenced in 2
years time.
I'm not savvy enough to risk buying 2nd hand, but are the following
beefy enough to manage (in stages) 8mm holes in 5mm thick rail?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/b8lqzx
Titan SF13N at £60 or the SF16N-9 at £80

http://preview.tinyurl.com/nevqzc
Silverline 350w at £57

http://preview.tinyurl.com/krm6hx
Axminster ND12 at £73 inc delivery

I'd go for the latter but direct from Axminster
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-A...rill-21711.htm
even if a few quid dearer.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 22:37:51 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/krm6hx
Axminster ND12 at £73 inc delivery

I'd go for the latter but direct from Axminster

er that eBay seller *is* Axminster or if they aren't they use the same
freephone number and link to the Axminster site from the About Me page....

--
Cheers
Dave.

Bertie Doe wrote:
Update
Popped into the DIY shop and the 'self-tapping' bolts I referred to in my
opening post are called Thunderbolts and are similar to Dave TMH's Multi
Monti :
http://preview.tinyurl.com/mw9sdk

A neighbour has offered his SDS Hammerdrill, so the only outstanding problem
will be drilling 8mm holes in the rails. I'll phone around and get a price
for a machine shop to drill 120 holes. If it's expensive it may be worth
considering DL's thoughts on a pillar drill, especially if the missus wants
the other wall fenced in 2 years time.

I'm not savvy enough to risk buying 2nd hand, but are the following beefy
enough to manage (in stages) 8mm holes in 5mm thick rail?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/b8lqzx
Titan SF13N at �60 or the SF16N-9 at �80

http://preview.tinyurl.com/nevqzc
Silverline 350w at �57

http://preview.tinyurl.com/krm6hx
Axminster ND12 at �73 inc delivery


I'd definitely use a pillar drill. I've only used industrial ones, so
dont know about those models. But I've noticed pillar drills tend to
have much lower power ratings than handhelds, in the 250-500w region,
and they still do the job fine. You'll need to clamp the rails, an 8mm
hole is a lot of workpiece-swinging torque. And of course select the
appropriate belt position for the job - you'll need to consult a
drilling speed table to find the optimum speed.

So you save £100 less £40 for a morning's work and you end up with
another tool.


NT

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:38:09 +0100, "Bertie Doe" wrote:


Q.1. How much larger will the rail holes need to be 6.5, 7.00, 7.5mm Etc?

How accurate, position-wise will your drilling be in the wall?
Presumably you will be pre-drilling the rails with a pillar drill, after
precisely popping all the positions.
So if I were doing it, I would drill the holes in all the rails 1mm oversize
except for one which would get used as a template for the wall drilling so just
a 0.1 mm oversize.
Of course I have trouble getting 3 holes to line up for an aerial mast bracket
so my advice is worth all I'm charging...


--
Geo

Geo wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:38:09 +0100, "Bertie Doe"
wrote:


Q.1. How much larger will the rail holes need to be 6.5, 7.00, 7.5mm
Etc?

How accurate, position-wise will your drilling be in the wall?
Presumably you will be pre-drilling the rails with a pillar drill,
after precisely popping all the positions.
So if I were doing it, I would drill the holes in all the rails 1mm
oversize except for one which would get used as a template for the
wall drilling so just a 0.1 mm oversize.
Of course I have trouble getting 3 holes to line up for an aerial
mast bracket so my advice is worth all I'm charging...

If the holes in the brackets are drilled at 9mm, which would be right for
multi montis, then the proceedure would be to mark & drill the top hole,
insert the fixing loosely, check for level & mark the other fixing points.
Move rail aside then drill the other holes.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 22:42:43 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

If the holes in the brackets are drilled at 9mm, which would be right for
multi montis, then the proceedure would be to mark & drill the top hole,
insert the fixing loosely, check for level & mark the other fixing points.
Move rail aside then drill the other holes.

Makes more sense Dave - Ive never done a vertical railway before...

--
Geo

Geo wrote:
On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 22:42:43 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

If the holes in the brackets are drilled at 9mm, which would be
right for multi montis, then the proceedure would be to mark & drill
the top hole, insert the fixing loosely, check for level & mark the
other fixing points. Move rail aside then drill the other holes.

Makes more sense Dave - Ive never done a vertical railway before...

I was wondering what the application was as well :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
Geo wrote:
On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 22:42:43 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

If the holes in the brackets are drilled at 9mm, which would be
right for multi montis, then the proceedure would be to mark & drill
the top hole, insert the fixing loosely, check for level & mark the
other fixing points. Move rail aside then drill the other holes.

Makes more sense Dave - Ive never done a vertical railway before...

I was wondering what the application was as well :-)


The party wall is 5" thick concrete, approx 3' high. The idea is to fix 3'
high by 4' wide wooden panels on top of the concrete wall. I say "approx"
because the wall varies in height. There is a 10 : 1 slope and the wall was
built with 6 steps, to compensate for the slope.

So each of the 14 panels will have to be tailor-made. Each panel will
consist of a frame, made from 2" x 1" planed. The frame will be routed, to
allow 9mm tongue and grooved, to be inserted - horizontally.

I'll fix the 2 end rails (60' apart), as a guide or reference point, for the
remaining panels. There's no rush, I could pace myself at say 3 panels per
weekend. Each rail will be 6', the bottom half will have 4 x 9mm holes
(staggered) for the thunderbolts (multi montis) and the top half will have 4
x 4mm holes, to fix the wooden frames/panels with s/s nuts and bolts. First,
I have to disassemble a 1" thick concrete coal bunker and move it to my
allotment, 30 yards away. I'll have the biggest composter in the road -.
Thanks all.

Bertie