Well, I have to spec a new downstairs toilet stud wall for building
regs.
This is my first "controlled" stud wall ;-) Its going onto an ammended
full plans, which must pass.
I want to keep the wall thickness to a minimum.
So ...
From part E, I need 75mm timber stud, plasterboard at 10kg/m2 (12.5
echeck board or somesuch), and suspended mineral wool inside at 10kg/
m2, at least 25mm thick and suspended.
Whats the deal with "suspended" ? Do I get out the sewing machine ?
Can I use more mineral wool and standard 12.5mm PB ?
Any other requirements for a toilet room wall.
Any special requirements for the door ? (must let in air for the fan,
so whats the point in the super wall and a leaky door)
Thanks,
Simon.

On May 30, 12:15 am, sm_jamieson wrote:

Any other requirements for a toilet room wall.

I reckon it pays to put lots of nogs in the wall so you can hang the
toilet roll holder, towel rail etc exactly where they are needed.
And lots of nogs where the cistern is to be attached. If the damn
thing doesn't flush properly you may have to raise it up the wall
until it does.

Matty F wrote:
On May 30, 12:15 am, sm_jamieson wrote:

Any other requirements for a toilet room wall.

I reckon it pays to put lots of nogs in the wall so you can hang the
toilet roll holder, towel rail etc exactly where they are needed.
And lots of nogs where the cistern is to be attached. If the damn
thing doesn't flush properly you may have to raise it up the wall
until it does.

Actually, if its a small toilet, save yourself some trouble by plating
it in MDF and THEN plasterboard (or if tiling, forget plasterboard entirely)

Takes screws very well does MDF. The ononly problem is it shrinks a bit
and any MDF to MDF joins need to be large-scale and caulked to avoid
cracks appearing. It paints with emulsion very very well too.

On 30 May, 10:27, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Matty F wrote:
On May 30, 12:15 am, sm_jamieson wrote:

Any other requirements for a toilet room wall.

I reckon it pays to put lots of nogs in the wall so you can hang the
toilet roll holder, towel rail etc exactly where they are needed.
And lots of nogs where the cistern is to be attached. If the damn
thing doesn't flush properly you may have to raise it up the wall
until it does.

Actually, if its a small toilet, save yourself some trouble by plating
it in MDF and THEN plasterboard (or if tiling, forget plasterboard entirely)

Takes screws very well does MDF. The ononly problem is it shrinks a bit
and any MDF to MDF joins need to be large-scale and caulked to avoid
cracks appearing. It paints with emulsion very very well too.

Anyone know how you "suspend" mineral wool in a stud wall ?
Simon.

wrote:

Anyone know how you "suspend" mineral wool in a stud wall ?

Chicken wire perhaps?


--
Cheers,

John.

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| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 30 May, 17:44, John Rumm wrote:
wrote:
Anyone know how you "suspend" mineral wool in a stud wall ?

Chicken wire perhaps?

But has anyone done it ?
John, you did some "controlled" stud work in your loft I presume ?
Was it before the current regs ?
Simon.

On Fri, 29 May 2009 05:15:40 -0700 (PDT), a certain chimpanzee,
sm_jamieson randomly hit a keyboard and
produced:

Well, I have to spec a new downstairs toilet stud wall for building
regs.
This is my first "controlled" stud wall ;-) Its going onto an ammended
full plans, which must pass.
I want to keep the wall thickness to a minimum.
So ...
From part E, I need 75mm timber stud, plasterboard at 10kg/m2 (12.5
echeck board or somesuch), and suspended mineral wool inside at 10kg/
m2, at least 25mm thick and suspended.
Whats the deal with "suspended" ? Do I get out the sewing machine ?
Can I use more mineral wool and standard 12.5mm PB ?
Any other requirements for a toilet room wall.
Any special requirements for the door ? (must let in air for the fan,
so whats the point in the super wall and a leaky door)

Why 'must' your plan pass? It doesn't seem to bother 99% of people who
put applications in. Of the other 1%, 99% of those don't work to the
plan anyway. As I've said before, the plans are a means to an end, and
so long as you're willing to work with your BCO to make sure the work
on site complies, the plans don't have to be spot on. Sometimes the
more information you put on it, the more there is that needs to be
corrected.

Where is this wall? If it's between the toilet and another room, then,
yes it should be insulated. If it's between the toilet and a
non-habitable space such as the hall, has a door in the wall, or is an
en-suite, then the wall doesn't need sound insulation.

Th point about 'suspending' insulation between the studs is so that
any non-rigid insulation won't just fall to the bottom. If you fully
fill the space, or better still, use a rigid mineral-fibre batt, then
this won't be a problem.

Have a look at plasterboard & insulation manufacturers' websites. They
usually have more designs & solutions that will meet your needs better
than the generic AD E solutions.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no one on the Internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

On 31 May, 09:53, Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2009 05:15:40 -0700 (PDT), a certain chimpanzee,
sm_jamieson randomly hit a keyboard and
produced:

Well, I have to spec a new downstairs toilet stud wall for building
regs.
This is my first "controlled" stud wall ;-) Its going onto an ammended
full plans, which must pass.
I want to keep the wall thickness to a minimum.
So ...
From part E, I need 75mm timber stud, plasterboard at 10kg/m2 (12.5
echeck board or somesuch), and suspended mineral wool inside at 10kg/
m2, at least 25mm thick and suspended.
Whats the deal with "suspended" ? Do I get out the sewing machine ?
Can I use more mineral wool and standard 12.5mm PB ?
Any other requirements for a toilet room wall.
Any special requirements for the door ? (must let in air for the fan,
so whats the point in the super wall and a leaky door)

Why 'must' your plan pass? It doesn't seem to bother 99% of people who
put applications in. Of the other 1%, 99% of those don't work to the
plan anyway. As I've said before, the plans are a means to an end, and
so long as you're willing to work with your BCO to make sure the work
on site complies, the plans don't have to be spot on. Sometimes the
more information you put on it, the more there is that needs to be
corrected.

I agree, but it speeds things up if the plans pass surely. First time
round, I got a certificate only after making a few revisions. The
rejection was for reasons including some missing information - they
wanted the details !
I'm glad I did the main work as full plans - once agreed you can get
on with the work without waiting for the BCO who will come "sometime"
during the day. Seems from my experience domestic jobs are always at
the end of the day so why can't they just agree to a PM visit - I have
a full time job after all.
Now I've added the toilet to the plans as a revision since a separate
building notice would cost more !


Where is this wall? If it's between the toilet and another room, then,
yes it should be insulated. If it's between the toilet and a
non-habitable space such as the hall, has a door in the wall, or is an
en-suite, then the wall doesn't need sound insulation.

Th point about 'suspending' insulation between the studs is so that
any non-rigid insulation won't just fall to the bottom. If you fully
fill the space, or better still, use a rigid mineral-fibre batt, then
this won't be a problem.


After reading the approved doc, it seemed that fully filling was not
an option, so it had to be suspended to avoid it collapsing or
touching the sides. Given the choice I would pack in the mineral wool
tightly. May in theory (and in fact) conduct more sound across, but it
also makes the wall appear more robust when tapped etc.
It is a toilet. One wall is onto the hall and has a door in it. The
other short 1 metre long wall will form part of the kitchen wall. I
hadn't noticed the bit about the door.

Have a look at plasterboard & insulation manufacturers' websites. They
usually have more designs & solutions that will meet your needs better
than the generic AD E solutions.
--

Sometimes I think the regs are overstepping their central purpose of
ensuring safe buildings.

Cheers,
Simon.

wrote:
On 30 May, 17:44, John Rumm wrote:
wrote:
Anyone know how you "suspend" mineral wool in a stud wall ?
Chicken wire perhaps?

But has anyone done it ?
John, you did some "controlled" stud work in your loft I presume ?
Was it before the current regs ?

it was in '04 - '05 - not sure what regs have changed wrt stud walls
though (some of the other loft fire precaution stuff has changed since).

I used rigid PIR foam with cork on one side (about 10mm) and bitumen
foil on the other, in the stud walls. The intention being to control the
noise transmission a bit. I don't recall actually discussing it with the
BCO though. The case where I did need "suspension" was for the rockwool
under the floor - this was to enhance the fire protection of the first
floor ceiling.

--
Cheers,

John.

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| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:

After reading the approved doc, it seemed that fully filling was not
an option, so it had to be suspended to avoid it collapsing or
touching the sides. Given the choice I would pack in the mineral wool


Can't see why on a stud wall. Full fill on an external cavity wall is
usually not done - but an internal stud is frequently full filled.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/