When using 2.5mm twin-and-earth cable, and where two wires go into one
terminal on the back of a socket, should the two bare wire ends be twisted
together?

I have read Google sources that think twisting weakens the wire, and say,
e.g. "Insert wires fully into their terminals. Don't twist two or more wires
together".

A different Google source says "Taking the conductors, twist each together
.... now insert the pairs of conductors into the correspondingly labelled
terminal".

Socket manufacturers such as MK have nothing to say on this matter in their
installation instruction sheets.

What is good practice, should the wires be twisted, or not twisted?

In article ,
"Anode" notvalid writes:
When using 2.5mm twin-and-earth cable, and where two wires go into one
terminal on the back of a socket, should the two bare wire ends be twisted
together?

Not with conductors of that size.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Anode wrote:
When using 2.5mm twin-and-earth cable, and where two wires go into one
terminal on the back of a socket, should the two bare wire ends be twisted
together?

I have read Google sources that think twisting weakens the wire, and say,
e.g. "Insert wires fully into their terminals. Don't twist two or more wires
together".

A different Google source says "Taking the conductors, twist each together
... now insert the pairs of conductors into the correspondingly labelled
terminal".

Socket manufacturers such as MK have nothing to say on this matter in their
installation instruction sheets.

What is good practice, should the wires be twisted, or not twisted?

Not twisted. If you twist them it makes future testing and maintenance a
pain.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Anode" notvalid writes:
When using 2.5mm twin-and-earth cable, and where two wires go into one
terminal on the back of a socket, should the two bare wire ends be
twisted
together?

Not with conductors of that size.

I agree, I find that twisting them together often weakens the cores. As
Andrew implies, with cores that size, they are both/all compressed by the
screw and twisting doesn't improve the connection. Twisting makes them more
difficult to wire up (cables combine together to fight against you)


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not

On 14 May, 15:59, John Rumm wrote:
Anode wrote:
When using 2.5mm twin-and-earth cable, and where two wires go into one
terminal on the back of a socket, should the two bare wire ends be twisted
together?

I have read Google sources that think twisting weakens the wire, and say,
e.g. "Insert wires fully into their terminals. Don't twist two or more wires
together".

A different Google source says "Taking the conductors, twist each together
... now insert the pairs of conductors into the correspondingly labelled
terminal".

Socket manufacturers such as MK have nothing to say on this matter in their
installation instruction sheets.

What is good practice, should the wires be twisted, or not twisted?

Not twisted. If you twist them it makes future testing and maintenance a
* pain.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| * * * * *Internode Ltd - *http://www.internode.co.uk* * * * * *|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| * * * *John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk * * * * * * *|
\================================================= ================/

What about the CPC then - if I've got two coming from the same access
point in the backbox, I usually twist them before slipping the
sleeving over.

Rob

Rob G wrote:
On 14 May, 15:59, John Rumm wrote:
Anode wrote:
When using 2.5mm twin-and-earth cable, and where two wires go into one
terminal on the back of a socket, should the two bare wire ends be twisted
together?
I have read Google sources that think twisting weakens the wire, and say,
e.g. "Insert wires fully into their terminals. Don't twist two or more wires
together".
A different Google source says "Taking the conductors, twist each together
... now insert the pairs of conductors into the correspondingly labelled
terminal".
Socket manufacturers such as MK have nothing to say on this matter in their
installation instruction sheets.
What is good practice, should the wires be twisted, or not twisted?
Not twisted. If you twist them it makes future testing and maintenance a
pain.

What about the CPC then - if I've got two coming from the same access
point in the backbox, I usually twist them before slipping the
sleeving over.

same problem really - if you need to separate them to do low ohms tests
etc then you need to unsleave, untwist etc to do it.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 14 May 2009 14:41:23 +0100
"Anode" notvalid wrote:

When using 2.5mm twin-and-earth cable, and where two wires go into one
terminal on the back of a socket, should the two bare wire ends be twisted
together?

Copper 'work-hardens' which means that if you bend it about it gets
harder and more brittle. I'd worry that if you twist 2.5mm wire it
would work-harden to the point that it may fracture when clamped rather
than deforming properly. Lighter gauge may well tolerate it better,
the CPC is usually significantly lighter gauge.

I never twist them, and have never had a problem. You only need three
hands if you didn't leave enough of a tail.

R.

"Anode" notvalid writes:
When using 2.5mm twin-and-earth cable, and where two wires go into one
terminal on the back of a socket, should the two bare wire ends be
twisted
together?

Many thanks to everyone for your replies. I particularly take the point
about copper work-hardening, and the point about ease of maintenance and
fault testing. It is good to be told that no trouble results when the wires
are not twisted.

Regards,

Anode.

"Rob G" wrote in message
...
On 14 May, 15:59, John Rumm wrote:
Anode wrote:
When using 2.5mm twin-and-earth cable, and where two wires go into one
terminal on the back of a socket, should the two bare wire ends be
twisted
together?

I have read Google sources that think twisting weakens the wire, and
say,
e.g. "Insert wires fully into their terminals. Don't twist two or more
wires
together".

A different Google source says "Taking the conductors, twist each
together
... now insert the pairs of conductors into the correspondingly labelled
terminal".

Socket manufacturers such as MK have nothing to say on this matter in
their
installation instruction sheets.

What is good practice, should the wires be twisted, or not twisted?

Not twisted. If you twist them it makes future testing and maintenance a
pain.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

What about the CPC then - if I've got two coming from the same access
point in the backbox, I usually twist them before slipping the
sleeving over.

Rob

Earth sleeving is cheap enough to cover both CPCs with seperate sleeving.

Adam

TheOldFellow wrote:
On Thu, 14 May 2009 14:41:23 +0100
"Anode" notvalid wrote:

When using 2.5mm twin-and-earth cable, and where two wires go into one
terminal on the back of a socket, should the two bare wire ends be twisted
together?

Copper 'work-hardens' which means that if you bend it about it gets
harder and more brittle. I'd worry that if you twist 2.5mm wire it
would work-harden to the point that it may fracture when clamped rather
than deforming properly. Lighter gauge may well tolerate it better,
the CPC is usually significantly lighter gauge.

I never twist them, and have never had a problem. You only need three
hands if you didn't leave enough of a tail.

If you can't twist them, then why does this problem of work hardening
come about when they are not twisted in a screwed terminatator?

Dave

On Fri, 15 May 2009 00:45:43 +0100
Dave wrote:

TheOldFellow wrote:
On Thu, 14 May 2009 14:41:23 +0100
"Anode" notvalid wrote:

When using 2.5mm twin-and-earth cable, and where two wires go into one
terminal on the back of a socket, should the two bare wire ends be twisted
together?

Copper 'work-hardens' which means that if you bend it about it gets
harder and more brittle. I'd worry that if you twist 2.5mm wire it
would work-harden to the point that it may fracture when clamped rather
than deforming properly. Lighter gauge may well tolerate it better,
the CPC is usually significantly lighter gauge.

I never twist them, and have never had a problem. You only need three
hands if you didn't leave enough of a tail.

If you can't twist them, then why does this problem of work hardening
come about when they are not twisted in a screwed terminatator?

Dave


The deformation by the screw can do it, but most likely it's mechanical
or thermal movement of the wire.
R.

In article ,
"ARWadsworth" writes:

"Rob G" wrote in message
...
On 14 May, 15:59, John Rumm wrote:

What about the CPC then - if I've got two coming from the same access
point in the backbox, I usually twist them before slipping the
sleeving over.

Rob

Earth sleeving is cheap enough to cover both CPCs with seperate sleeving.

Adam

That means cutting the CPC, which I try to avoid.

You don't need to twist the CPC's to slide into a piece of
sleeving.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 15 May 2009 05:56:18 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
"ARWadsworth" writes:

Earth sleeving is cheap enough to cover both CPCs with seperate sleeving.


That means cutting the CPC, which I try to avoid.

Eh?



--

TheOldFellow wrote:
On Fri, 15 May 2009 00:45:43 +0100
Dave wrote:

TheOldFellow wrote:
On Thu, 14 May 2009 14:41:23 +0100
"Anode" notvalid wrote:

When using 2.5mm twin-and-earth cable, and where two wires go into one
terminal on the back of a socket, should the two bare wire ends be twisted
together?
Copper 'work-hardens' which means that if you bend it about it gets
harder and more brittle. I'd worry that if you twist 2.5mm wire it
would work-harden to the point that it may fracture when clamped rather
than deforming properly. Lighter gauge may well tolerate it better,
the CPC is usually significantly lighter gauge.

I never twist them, and have never had a problem. You only need three
hands if you didn't leave enough of a tail.
If you can't twist them, then why does this problem of work hardening
come about when they are not twisted in a screwed terminatator?

Dave


The deformation by the screw can do it, but most likely it's mechanical
or thermal movement of the wire.
R.

Thanks for that

Dave

Mike wrote:
On 15 May 2009 05:56:18 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
"ARWadsworth" writes:

Earth sleeving is cheap enough to cover both CPCs with seperate sleeving.

That means cutting the CPC, which I try to avoid.

Eh?


Some people try to install ring final circuits without breaking the
conductors (i.e. cutting the cable) in the belief that this gives them a
fundamentally more reliable and higher-integrity result than if they
didn't bother. It takes a great deal of planning, lots of mucking about
pulling the one-piece ring cable and ages to strip cables without
cutting the conductors.

The OP may be doing this or a subset thereof.

In article ,
Dave Osborne writes:
Mike wrote:
On 15 May 2009 05:56:18 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
"ARWadsworth" writes:

Earth sleeving is cheap enough to cover both CPCs with seperate sleeving.

That means cutting the CPC, which I try to avoid.

Eh?


Some people try to install ring final circuits without breaking the
conductors (i.e. cutting the cable) in the belief that this gives them a
fundamentally more reliable and higher-integrity result than if they
didn't bother. It takes a great deal of planning, lots of mucking about
pulling the one-piece ring cable and ages to strip cables without
cutting the conductors.

The OP may be doing this or a subset thereof.

I do try to avoid breaking the conductors at every connection and
socket outlet. I have managed to install a few complete rings with
no breaks in the conductors at all. It makes for an interesting
challenge, but not something to get too anal about. If you can do
it, each socket is only one connection from the fusebox, otherwise
some may be accumulating 20 or more connections along the away.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]