Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.

On 13 Feb, 12:40, wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . *I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously *bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause *,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.

Basically, when the button touches the contact it completes the
electrical circuit for that particular function.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/remote-control.htm
Cheers
Jeff

On Feb 13, 11:40*am, wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . *I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously *bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause *,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.

you just complete the relevant circuit programmed to transmit the
relevant frequency.

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:45:50 -0800 (PST), Jeff Lawrence
wrote:

On 13 Feb, 12:40, wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . *I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously *bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause *,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.

Basically, when the button touches the contact it completes the
electrical circuit for that particular function.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/remote-control.htm
Cheers
Jeff

Thx..Now I understand .

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:45:50 -0800 (PST), Jeff Lawrence
wrote:

On 13 Feb, 12:40, wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.
Basically, when the button touches the contact it completes the
electrical circuit for that particular function.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/remote-control.htm
Cheers
Jeff

Thx..Now I understand .

And just a quick addition...

The deposit on the upper surface of the buttons is unlikely to cause lack of
response. That is more likely to be due to a dying battery.

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 12:06:02 +0000, JNugent
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:45:50 -0800 (PST), Jeff Lawrence
wrote:

On 13 Feb, 12:40, wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.
Basically, when the button touches the contact it completes the
electrical circuit for that particular function.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/remote-control.htm
Cheers
Jeff

Thx..Now I understand .

And just a quick addition...

The deposit on the upper surface of the buttons is unlikely to cause lack of
response. That is more likely to be due to a dying battery.

I changed the batteries a few days ago and the problem was still
there. .I took the remote apart today ..washed off the stickiness and
it now works like it should so seems very likely that was the problem.

Maybe I didn't make it clear but the stickiness was not only on the
underside of the buttons but was on the area of the circuit board that
the buttons contacted

On 13 Feb, 12:06, JNugent wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:45:50 -0800 (PST), Jeff Lawrence
wrote:

On 13 Feb, 12:40, wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . *I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously *bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause *,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.
Basically, when the button touches the contact it completes the
electrical circuit for that particular function.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/remote-control.htm
Cheers
Jeff

Thx..Now I understand .

And just a quick addition...

The deposit on the upper surface of the buttons is unlikely to cause lack of
response. That is more likely to be due to a dying battery.- Hide quoted text -

Many years ago, I had a similar situation. I opened the case and found
a film of condensation over the circuit board and rubber contacts. I
presumed many hours of being held caused it to get covered in
water .....

wrote:

Maybe I didn't make it clear but the stickiness was not only on the
underside of the buttons but was on the area of the circuit board that
the buttons contacted

Had exactly the same problem with an Echostar satellite
remote. The 'Select' and the 'Down' button had some
liquid just where the button bears down on the contacts
on the motherboard. I simply wiped it clean with a cotton
bud (and off the underside of the buttons) and the remote
started functioning like new again. I was quite pleased
with myself.

Regards

Mark

"JNugent" wrote in message ...
wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:45:50 -0800 (PST), Jeff Lawrence
wrote:

On 13 Feb, 12:40, wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.
Basically, when the button touches the contact it completes the
electrical circuit for that particular function.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/remote-control.htm
Cheers
Jeff

Thx..Now I understand .

And just a quick addition...

The deposit on the upper surface of the buttons is unlikely to cause lack of
response. That is more likely to be due to a dying battery.

And yet another addition...

The deposit on the upper surface was dried tea. As the OP explained. When the
tea was wet, as it will have been at one stage otherwise it would have been
difficult to drink, it seeped through the gap between the buttons and the
casing where the little buttons go through the little holes. That's how his
circuit board got sticky.

HTH


michael adams

....

wrote in message
...
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.

The stickiness seemed to be grease when I sometimes took these apart.
Perhaps body oils? I don't know how that would permeate through the rubber
pad.

To change the channel.... the conductive underside of the rubber button
completes a circuit, it causes an infrared data stream to be emitted from
the LED. The TV picks this up, decodes it, and if you're lucky the channel
will change (my own remote is very temperamental in this regard).

If you turn on a digital camera, look at it's screen, and point the remote
at the lens, you should be able to see the LED flashing when you press the
buttons (it's normally invisible).

--
Bartc

In article ,
michael adams wrote:
The deposit on the upper surface of the buttons is unlikely to cause
lack of response. That is more likely to be due to a dying battery.

And yet another addition...

The deposit on the upper surface was dried tea. As the OP explained.
When the tea was wet, as it will have been at one stage otherwise it
would have been difficult to drink, it seeped through the gap between
the buttons and the casing where the little buttons go through the
little holes. That's how his circuit board got sticky.

And sugar in the tea makes things worse - it's a reasonable conductor.

--
*If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
michael adams wrote:
The deposit on the upper surface of the buttons is unlikely to cause
lack of response. That is more likely to be due to a dying battery.

And yet another addition...

The deposit on the upper surface was dried tea. As the OP explained.
When the tea was wet, as it will have been at one stage otherwise it
would have been difficult to drink, it seeped through the gap between
the buttons and the casing where the little buttons go through the
little holes. That's how his circuit board got sticky.

And sugar in the tea makes things worse - it's a reasonable conductor.

The thin circuit board part can become oxidised and corroded. You can
clean it with a pencil eraser. I have done this on computer keyboards, I
assume that remote controls have a similar circuit board.

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:02:43 GMT, "Bartc" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.

The stickiness seemed to be grease when I sometimes took these apart.
Perhaps body oils? I don't know how that would permeate through the rubber
pad.

Yeah.It did seem to be a bit oily....could it be something the manfrs
put on there to ensure a good contact and I have mixed it with the
sugary tea spillage? .

On 13 Feb, 16:10, wrote:

And if you're unlucky it might do something with another appliance.

I had a remote control for a TV once that starting running the bath
upstairs whenever I tried
to change the contrast and flushed the toilet if I wanted to view
teletext. Weird!
Cheers
Jeff

"Jethro" wrote in message
...
On 13 Feb, 12:06, JNugent wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:45:50 -0800 (PST), Jeff Lawrence
wrote:

On 13 Feb, 12:40, wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.
Basically, when the button touches the contact it completes the
electrical circuit for that particular function.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/remote-control.htm
Cheers
Jeff

Thx..Now I understand .

And just a quick addition...

The deposit on the upper surface of the buttons is unlikely to cause lack
of
response. That is more likely to be due to a dying battery.- Hide quoted
text -

Many years ago, I had a similar situation. I opened the case and found
a film of condensation over the circuit board and rubber contacts. I
presumed many hours of being held caused it to get covered in
water .....


It's an absolutely standard problem which all remotes suffer from, and is
nothing to do with spillage or condensation or whatever. It is caused by the
synthetic conductive rubber contact lozenges on the undersides of the
buttons, breaking down chemically. Sometimes, they are recoverable by
cleaning, but sometimes, it's just time for a new remote ...

Arfa

Jeff Lawrence has brought this to us :
On 13 Feb, 12:40, wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . *I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously *bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause *,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.

The rubber face is conductive and completes the contact of an etched
gold contact on the PCB. That then signals the processor inside the
remote to produce a preset series of on and off flashes of an Infra Red
LED diode. Each sequence is different, depending on the button you
press.

If you point the remote at a camera (digi or security type etc.) in a
darkened room, you will probably be able to see the flashes from the
remote on the camera's monitor.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 13 Feb, 16:26, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

The rubber face is conductive and completes the contact of an etched
gold contact on the PCB. That then signals the processor inside the
remote to produce a preset series of on and off flashes of an Infra Red
LED diode. Each sequence is different, depending on the button you
press.

If you point the remote at a camera (digi or security type etc.) in a
darkened room, you will probably be able to see the flashes from the
remote on the camera's monitor.

You are Bartc's twin brother AICMFP.
Cheers
Jeff

"Jeff Lawrence" wrote in message
...
On 13 Feb, 16:10, wrote:

And if you're unlucky it might do something with another appliance.

I had a remote control for a TV once that starting running the bath
upstairs whenever I tried
to change the contrast and flushed the toilet if I wanted to view
teletext. Weird!
Cheers
Jeff


So its *you* who's responsible for TV going down the crapper, eh? Hmm
--
Gibson SG standard
Fender MiM Stratocaster
Epi Les Paul Standard
Squier standard series Telecaster

wrote:

The deposit on the upper surface of the buttons is unlikely to cause lack of
response. That is more likely to be due to a dying battery.

I changed the batteries a few days ago and the problem was still
there. .I took the remote apart today ..washed off the stickiness and
it now works like it should so seems very likely that was the problem.

Maybe I didn't make it clear but the stickiness was not only on the
underside of the buttons but was on the area of the circuit board that
the buttons contacted

Ah...

wrote in message
...
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...

mmm yes, what have you been 'watching' ;-)

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:35:38 -0000, "whisky-dave"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...

mmm yes, what have you been 'watching' ;-)


Dirty devil...:-)

"JNugent" wrote in message
...
wrote:

The deposit on the upper surface of the buttons is unlikely to cause
lack of response. That is more likely to be due to a dying battery.

I changed the batteries a few days ago and the problem was still
there. .I took the remote apart today ..washed off the stickiness and
it now works like it should so seems very likely that was the problem.

Maybe I didn't make it clear but the stickiness was not only on the
underside of the buttons but was on the area of the circuit board that
the buttons contacted

Ah...


I thought you were perfectly clear.

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 12:06:02 +0000, JNugent
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:45:50 -0800 (PST), Jeff Lawrence
wrote:

On 13 Feb, 12:40, wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.
Basically, when the button touches the contact it completes the
electrical circuit for that particular function.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/remote-control.htm
Cheers
Jeff
Thx..Now I understand .
And just a quick addition...

The deposit on the upper surface of the buttons is unlikely to cause lack of
response. That is more likely to be due to a dying battery.

I changed the batteries a few days ago and the problem was still
there. .I took the remote apart today ..washed off the stickiness and
it now works like it should so seems very likely that was the problem.

Maybe I didn't make it clear but the stickiness was not only on the
underside of the buttons but was on the area of the circuit board that
the buttons contacted
I have had this type of problem without the spill!

The buttons were in a sheet of 'rubber' which I assume was a conducting
polymer (rubber like material). The remote became less and lass
effective even after changing batteries. When I dismantled it there
seemed to be an oily film on the circuit board, concentraded in the
position of themost commonly used buttons. I cleaned this off and about
6 months later the problem recurred.

My suspicion was that the film was coming from the polymer membrane -
the only cure was regular cleaning

Malcolm

wrote:
In uk.media.tv.misc Bartc wrote:
To change the channel.... the conductive underside of the rubber button
completes a circuit, it causes an infrared data stream to be emitted from
the LED. The TV picks this up, decodes it, and if you're lucky the channel
will change (my own remote is very temperamental in this regard).

And if you're unlucky it might do something with another appliance. The
remote control 'volume up' button for my Marantz CD player would not only
increase the output volume on the CD player itself, but would also cause
the volume control knob on my Arcam amplifier to turn (and thus to increase
the amp volume). Annoyingly, the Marantz r/c's 'volume down' button had no
effect on the amp, but would turn the CD player's gain down, so one could
get terribly confused :-)

Needless to say, the Marantz's r/c has lain in a drawer for some years ;-)

My Marantz CD player itself has lain on the floor for some years.

wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.

The very same thing is happening to my Sony remote for my Freeview
set-top box, but I have to keep opening it up every week to clean the
grease off the circuit board. The buttons are in some sort of
silicone-rubber pad with some black substance underneath which makes
contact with the circuit board.

Worst affected buttons are 1 and the sound and channel up/down buttons

I used to think this was only happening to me!

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:33:09 +0000, "jon.in.durham"
wrote:

wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.

The very same thing is happening to my Sony remote for my Freeview
set-top box, but I have to keep opening it up every week to clean the
grease off the circuit board. The buttons are in some sort of
silicone-rubber pad with some black substance underneath which makes
contact with the circuit board.

Worst affected buttons are 1 and the sound and channel up/down buttons

I used to think this was only happening to me!

Seems like it wasn't the tea spillage that was responsible but what
you and others say about the oilyness...

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 12:06:02 +0000, JNugent
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:45:50 -0800 (PST), Jeff Lawrence
wrote:

On 13 Feb, 12:40, wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.
Basically, when the button touches the contact it completes the
electrical circuit for that particular function.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/remote-control.htm
Cheers
Jeff
Thx..Now I understand .
And just a quick addition...

The deposit on the upper surface of the buttons is unlikely to cause lack of
response. That is more likely to be due to a dying battery.

I changed the batteries a few days ago and the problem was still
there. .I took the remote apart today ..washed off the stickiness and
it now works like it should so seems very likely that was the problem.

Maybe I didn't make it clear but the stickiness was not only on the
underside of the buttons but was on the area of the circuit board that
the buttons contacted

The rubber is conductive, but you should have taken the opportunity to
rub the printed circuit contacts with a pencil eraser to clean them.

Regards

Dave

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
k...
Jeff Lawrence has brought this to us :
On 13 Feb, 12:40, wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.

The rubber face is conductive and completes the contact of an etched gold
contact on the PCB. That then signals the processor inside the remote to
produce a preset series of on and off flashes of an Infra Red LED diode.
Each sequence is different, depending on the button you press.

If you point the remote at a camera (digi or security type etc.) in a
darkened room, you will probably be able to see the flashes from the
remote on the camera's monitor.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk



Most modern remotes do not use direct PCB areas for the contacts - plated or
not. Instead, both the pads and the interconnects are formed from a
deposited carbon-doped paint-like material. This should never be abraded,
even with a pencil rubber. A cotton bud moistened with electronics grade
(99.7%) IPA is as agressive as you should ever get with the contact areas.

Arfa

"jon.in.durham" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.

The very same thing is happening to my Sony remote for my Freeview set-top
box, but I have to keep opening it up every week to clean the grease off
the circuit board. The buttons are in some sort of silicone-rubber pad
with some black substance underneath which makes contact with the circuit
board.

Worst affected buttons are 1 and the sound and channel up/down buttons

I used to think this was only happening to me!

So this one is a good point in question as an example of when I said in my
earlier post that "sometimes, it's just time for a new one ..."

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"jon.in.durham" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.

The very same thing is happening to my Sony remote for my Freeview
set-top box, but I have to keep opening it up every week to clean the
grease off the circuit board. The buttons are in some sort of
silicone-rubber pad with some black substance underneath which makes
contact with the circuit board.

Worst affected buttons are 1 and the sound and channel up/down buttons

I used to think this was only happening to me!

So this one is a good point in question as an example of when I said in my
earlier post that "sometimes, it's just time for a new one ..."

Arfa


Some people don't realise that there is a circuit to slightly delay to the
signal - to prevent accidental operation. They use this slight delay to
press ever harder on the button to make something happen. The result is
increased wear and even broken circuit boards.

"John" wrote in message ...

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"jon.in.durham" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.

The very same thing is happening to my Sony remote for my Freeview
set-top box, but I have to keep opening it up every week to clean the
grease off the circuit board. The buttons are in some sort of
silicone-rubber pad with some black substance underneath which makes
contact with the circuit board.

Worst affected buttons are 1 and the sound and channel up/down buttons

I used to think this was only happening to me!

So this one is a good point in question as an example of when I said in my
earlier post that "sometimes, it's just time for a new one ..."

Arfa


Some people don't realise that there is a circuit to slightly delay to the
signal - to prevent accidental operation.

Wrong. Do you know how fast electrons travel through a conductor ?

And in any case how would any circuit be able to distinguish between
accidental and deliberate presses.

They use this slight delay to
press ever harder on the button to make something happen.

Wrong. This is exactly what they need to do. Press harder. Any "delay" to
prevent accidental operation is purely mechanical and is provided by the
elasticity of the rubber keys which can absorb a certain amount of pressure
before the pressure is transmitted to back of the key and it touches
the circuit board .

michael adams


....

The result is
increased wear and even broken circuit boards.

wrote in message ...
On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:33:09 +0000, "jon.in.durham"
wrote:

wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.

The very same thing is happening to my Sony remote for my Freeview
set-top box, but I have to keep opening it up every week to clean the
grease off the circuit board. The buttons are in some sort of
silicone-rubber pad with some black substance underneath which makes
contact with the circuit board.

Worst affected buttons are 1 and the sound and channel up/down buttons

I used to think this was only happening to me!

Seems like it wasn't the tea spillage that was responsible but what
you and others say about the oilyness...



If that were the case then it would be happening more often, to more people.

Whereas it clearly isn't.

Since I started wrapping all my remotes in clingfilm I've never have any problems.

Any sticky liquid drink seeping into the remote and eventally working its way onto any
part of the circuit board and drying out will cause shorting. There's no possible
way that it couldn't as its a good conductor. Quite possibly film from cigarette
smoke might even have the same effect although that's more of a guess.


michael adams

....

"John" wrote in message
...

wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that

Some people don't realise that there is a circuit to slightly delay to the
signal - to prevent accidental operation. They use this slight delay to
press ever harder on the button to make something happen. The result is
increased wear and even broken circuit boards.

They've taken this to extremes with my V+ box and it's remote:

Either it doesn't register at all, or it registers (and a tiny LED on the
box confirms this, if you happen to be looking at it instead of the TV), but
sometimes it does nothing with it for several seconds.

Your reaction of course is to press the button once or twice more. Whereupon
it takes these several key presses which have now queued up and executes
them rapidly one after the other, usually completely screwing up whatever it
is you're trying to do. Sometimes, it completely ignores any key presses for
up to maybe a minute.

Now, when you press a button and nothing happens, and you weren't looking at
the LED, you have to make a decision as to whether to wait to see if there's
a reaction to this press, or decide to chance a second and possibly
self-cancelling press...

And even when it clearly registers the action immediately, it likes to take
change channel in it's own good time. A few weeks back I was using an old
17" table top TV; you pressed the buttons on the front, and the channel
changed instantly! I kept changing channels just for this novelty.

--
Bartc

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"jon.in.durham" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed
that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone
explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.

The very same thing is happening to my Sony remote for my Freeview
set-top box, but I have to keep opening it up every week to clean the
grease off the circuit board. The buttons are in some sort of
silicone-rubber pad with some black substance underneath which makes
contact with the circuit board.

Worst affected buttons are 1 and the sound and channel up/down buttons

I used to think this was only happening to me!

So this one is a good point in question as an example of when I said in
my
earlier post that "sometimes, it's just time for a new one ..."

Arfa


Some people don't realise that there is a circuit to slightly delay to
the
signal - to prevent accidental operation.

Wrong. Do you know how fast electrons travel through a conductor ?

And in any case how would any circuit be able to distinguish between
accidental and deliberate presses.

They use this slight delay to
press ever harder on the button to make something happen.

Wrong. This is exactly what they need to do. Press harder. Any "delay" to
prevent accidental operation is purely mechanical and is provided by the
elasticity of the rubber keys which can absorb a certain amount of
pressure
before the pressure is transmitted to back of the key and it touches
the circuit board .

michael adams


...

The result is
increased wear and even broken circuit boards.







I remember - the term is "Anti Bounce" - The circuitry expects to see a
deliberate input for (say) 50 milliseconds. (possibly a capacitor is used)
Anything less will be seen as an accidental touch on the button. Pressing
harder only creates stresses in the circuit board and can degrade the
conductive coating on the back of the buttons. (Press long - not hard!).

This delay reduces spurious commands being sent to the TV.

Of course there is always the six shooter approach where the remote is
flicked with a wrist action towards the set. Many people find that this
helps!!!!

"Bartc" wrote in message
om...

"John" wrote in message
...

wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that

Some people don't realise that there is a circuit to slightly delay to
the
signal - to prevent accidental operation. They use this slight delay to
press ever harder on the button to make something happen. The result is
increased wear and even broken circuit boards.

They've taken this to extremes with my V+ box and it's remote:

Either it doesn't register at all, or it registers (and a tiny LED on the
box confirms this, if you happen to be looking at it instead of the TV),
but sometimes it does nothing with it for several seconds.

Your reaction of course is to press the button once or twice more.
Whereupon
it takes these several key presses which have now queued up and executes
them rapidly one after the other, usually completely screwing up whatever
it
is you're trying to do. Sometimes, it completely ignores any key presses
for
up to maybe a minute.

Now, when you press a button and nothing happens, and you weren't looking
at
the LED, you have to make a decision as to whether to wait to see if
there's
a reaction to this press, or decide to chance a second and possibly
self-cancelling press...

And even when it clearly registers the action immediately, it likes to
take
change channel in it's own good time. A few weeks back I was using an old
17" table top TV; you pressed the buttons on the front, and the channel
changed instantly! I kept changing channels just for this novelty.

--
Bartc

The old TV Tuners were mechanical marvel! Remember the "Turret Tuner"?

De-bounce:

This circuit is used to eliminate contact bounce when using a push switch
with a digital circuit.

What is Contact Bounce? Contact bounce occurs with all types of switches.
As the switch contacts meet and then separate again there is a brief point
at which the contacts are just at the point of separation. This can cause a
moment of uncertainty where the contacts may or may not be passing current.
The whole episode lasts for only a few milliseconds at most but due to the
speed of electronic circuits, each splutter from the switch contacts is seen
by the circuit as a legitimate push of the switch. The result is that the
circuit sees several switch operations instead of just one.



I suppose that eventually we will become 'tuned' to pressing a buttons for
the required time - rather than stabbing it. After all, using a mouse became
intuitive.

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:10:19 UTC, "John"
wrote:

Of course there is always the six shooter approach where the remote is
flicked with a wrist action towards the set. Many people find that this
helps!!!!

Ah, that's because it gives the infra red waves a bit more speed as
they're flung out of the end!
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:26:41 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

If you point the remote at a camera (digi or security type etc.) in a
darkened room, you will probably be able to see the flashes from the
remote on the camera's monitor.

Simplest thing is almost always to point it at a mobile phone camera. You
see the IR LED light up white if it's working. It's worked on every one
of at least half a dozen phones I've tried it with - I guess the extra
few pence for a decent IR filter on a mobile camera is too much to bear.

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"jon.in.durham" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed
that
the rubber pad with the buttons on and also the top of the circuit
board had some sticky substance on ...almost certainly from some
spilled sugary tea recently . I washed the upper cover and the rubber
pad and cleaned off the stickiness from the circuit board and now it
is doing what it should be doing . I wondered however ,how these
things actually work . When you press the buttons it obviously bears
down on the relevant part of the circuit board but can someone
explain
exactly what is happening when you do that to cause ,for example,the
channel to change....all that seems to be happening is that the
underside of the button is pressing on the contact on the board.

The very same thing is happening to my Sony remote for my Freeview
set-top box, but I have to keep opening it up every week to clean the
grease off the circuit board. The buttons are in some sort of
silicone-rubber pad with some black substance underneath which makes
contact with the circuit board.

Worst affected buttons are 1 and the sound and channel up/down buttons

I used to think this was only happening to me!

So this one is a good point in question as an example of when I said in
my
earlier post that "sometimes, it's just time for a new one ..."

Arfa


Some people don't realise that there is a circuit to slightly delay to
the
signal - to prevent accidental operation.

Wrong. Do you know how fast electrons travel through a conductor ?

And in any case how would any circuit be able to distinguish between
accidental and deliberate presses.


??????????? How fast electrons travel is neither here nor there. Just about
any circuit which employs input from a physical key or switch, employs a
technique called de-bouncing, which causes the remote processor IC or key
matrix interface IC or system control IC or whatever is the appropriate
input device in whatever equipment we are talking about at the time, to
ignore any change of state on any of its input lines for a pre-programmed
number of internal clocks. Once the input has ben stable for that number of
clocks i.e. the switch contacts have stopped bouncing, *then* the input
device takes whatever action is indicated by whichever button, key or switch
has been activated. The delay is short in human terms - usually only a few
mS - so it's unlikely that any operator will notice that the reaction to a
button press is anything other than instantaneous. Which does rather knock
on the head any pause to make sure that a button has been deliberately
rather than accidentally pushed. I can certainly never remember in over 35
years of repairing equipment which uses remote controls - ultrasonic,
infrared, or wireless - encountering one where there was a deliberate long
anti-accident pause. There is an additional delay introduced, allbeit
another short one, by the fact that the receiving processor will wait until
at least two complete frames of identical data have been received to ensure
that no corruption of the data has taken place in the transmission path.
Many 'digital' TV sets take an inordinately long time to respond to a
channel change remote control request, but this is a function of the way
that the TV has to find the new data stream requested, lock onto it and
process it into a change of 'channel', rather than any delay in the actual
remote control system.



They use this slight delay to
press ever harder on the button to make something happen.

Wrong. This is exactly what they need to do. Press harder. Any "delay" to
prevent accidental operation is purely mechanical and is provided by the
elasticity of the rubber keys which can absorb a certain amount of
pressure
before the pressure is transmitted to back of the key and it touches
the circuit board .

michael adams



Sorry, but this is not the case at all. The 'poor contact' problem is most
often caused by the conductive rubber contact lozenges, breaking down
chemically. Extra hard pressing of any such affected buttons, merely
exacerbates the problem, and leads to a faster complete cessation of the
functionality of the button(s) in question.

Arfa

...

The result is
increased wear and even broken circuit boards.

"Bartc" wrote in message
om...

"John" wrote in message
...

wrote:
Over the past week or so I noticed that my TV remote was less
responsive than it should be . I took the cover apart and noticed that

Some people don't realise that there is a circuit to slightly delay to
the
signal - to prevent accidental operation. They use this slight delay to
press ever harder on the button to make something happen. The result is
increased wear and even broken circuit boards.

They've taken this to extremes with my V+ box and it's remote:

Either it doesn't register at all, or it registers (and a tiny LED on the
box confirms this, if you happen to be looking at it instead of the TV),
but sometimes it does nothing with it for several seconds.

Your reaction of course is to press the button once or twice more.
Whereupon
it takes these several key presses which have now queued up and executes
them rapidly one after the other, usually completely screwing up whatever
it
is you're trying to do. Sometimes, it completely ignores any key presses
for
up to maybe a minute.

Now, when you press a button and nothing happens, and you weren't looking
at
the LED, you have to make a decision as to whether to wait to see if
there's
a reaction to this press, or decide to chance a second and possibly
self-cancelling press...

And even when it clearly registers the action immediately, it likes to
take
change channel in it's own good time. A few weeks back I was using an old
17" table top TV; you pressed the buttons on the front, and the channel
changed instantly! I kept changing channels just for this novelty.

--
Bartc


You are merely seeing the difference between an analogue channel change,
where all that happened was that the frequency of the tuner's local
oscillator was shifted as a result of sending it a single data byte, and
changing data stream in a digital multiplex, which is a complex operation,
requiring the processor to drop the existing data stream, look for and
identify the requested new one, lock onto it, frame it, wait for a new
'whole' picture to be transmitted, process it, write it to memory, read it
back out and display it ...

Arfa

"John" wrote in message
...

"Bartc" wrote in message
om...

"John" wrote in message
...

Some people don't realise that there is a circuit to slightly delay to
the
signal - to prevent accidental operation. They use this slight delay to
press ever harder on the button to make something happen. The result is
increased wear and even broken circuit boards.

They've taken this to extremes with my V+ box and it's remote:

Either it doesn't register at all, or it registers (and a tiny LED on the
box confirms this, if you happen to be looking at it instead of the TV),
but sometimes it does nothing with it for several seconds.

The old TV Tuners were mechanical marvel! Remember the "Turret Tuner"?

The rotary ones for the 13 or so VHF channels? I remember one with a button
that you pressed and slid sideways to select.

This 17" TV I mentioned still had tactile electrical buttons which completed
a circuit when pressed; but the lack of a microprocessor containing
somebody's crappy, buggy code to slow everything down meant the tuner
responded instantly (I think it used varicap diode tuning, so it just had to
select one-of-eight).


De-bounce:

This circuit is used to eliminate contact bounce when using a push switch
with a digital circuit.

What is Contact Bounce? Contact bounce occurs with all types of
switches. As the switch contacts meet and then separate again there is a
brief point at which the contacts are just at the point of separation.
This can cause a moment of uncertainty where the contacts may or may not
be passing current.

Debounce circuitry surely is only only responsible for a few dozen
milliseconds of delay. This is for solid metal contacts; maybe the higher Z
soft contacts of some remotes may demand a longer delay, but I've been using
remotes of some kind or other for a couple of decades and have never seen
one this bad.

Maybe the V+ box has to send the command back to the cable company for
further instructions. (And even if it did, surely it would know enough not
to queue commands, as these rarely make sense for a system relying 100% on
visual feedback to determine the next press.)

--
Bartc