I want to take a spur off a downstairs ring main. By far the easiest way to
do this will be to T-off the ring under the flooring, rather than from a
socket. (I'm currently redecorating. so I can get to under the floor.)

I understand that I can't use a standard juntion box, as regs requires that
screwed fittings need to be accessable. My question is - what sort of
fitting should I use?

Thanks

Steve

Steve wrote:
I want to take a spur off a downstairs ring main. By far the easiest way to
do this will be to T-off the ring under the flooring, rather than from a
socket. (I'm currently redecorating. so I can get to under the floor.)

I understand that I can't use a standard juntion box, as regs requires that
screwed fittings need to be accessable. My question is - what sort of
fitting should I use?

This is that perennial question, what is 'accessable' in this context?

I think most would agree that under the floorboards it's usually OK to
use a standard JCB, whereas (say) it wouldn't be OK to do it where the
JCB is plastered into a wall.

David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
I want to take a spur off a downstairs ring main. By far the easiest way
to do this will be to T-off the ring under the flooring, rather than
from a socket. (I'm currently redecorating. so I can get to under the
floor.)

I understand that I can't use a standard juntion box, as regs requires
that screwed fittings need to be accessable. My question is - what sort
of fitting should I use?

This is that perennial question, what is 'accessable' in this context?

I think most would agree that under the floorboards it's usually OK to use
a standard JCB, whereas (say) it wouldn't be OK to do it where the JCB is
plastered into a wall.

David

You can get 'maintenance free' JB for this. Although, probably taking it
from an existing socket would be better.

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
I want to take a spur off a downstairs ring main. By far the easiest way
to do this will be to T-off the ring under the flooring, rather than
from a socket. (I'm currently redecorating. so I can get to under the
floor.)

I understand that I can't use a standard juntion box, as regs requires
that screwed fittings need to be accessable. My question is - what sort
of fitting should I use?

This is that perennial question, what is 'accessable' in this context?

I think most would agree that under the floorboards it's usually OK to use
a standard JCB, whereas (say) it wouldn't be OK to do it where the JCB is
plastered into a wall.

David

Thanks David. I have large sheets of flooring under the (future) carpet.
I've managed to raise a sheet by removing a skirting board. I don't think
in all honesty this could be called accesible. I know crimps would be used
for joining cables in plaster, but I can't crimp a T-junction (or are
special T-crimps available?!).. There must be an acceptable fitting for
this sort of common situation, surely?

Steve

"Steve" wrote in message
...
"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
I want to take a spur off a downstairs ring main. By far the easiest
way to do this will be to T-off the ring under the flooring, rather
than from a socket. (I'm currently redecorating. so I can get to under
the floor.)

I understand that I can't use a standard juntion box, as regs requires
that screwed fittings need to be accessable. My question is - what sort
of fitting should I use?

This is that perennial question, what is 'accessable' in this context?

I think most would agree that under the floorboards it's usually OK to
use a standard JCB, whereas (say) it wouldn't be OK to do it where the
JCB is plastered into a wall.

David

Thanks David. I have large sheets of flooring under the (future) carpet.
I've managed to raise a sheet by removing a skirting board. I don't think
in all honesty this could be called accesible. I know crimps would be
used for joining cables in plaster, but I can't crimp a T-junction (or
are special T-crimps available?!).. There must be an acceptable fitting
for this sort of common situation, surely?

Steve


http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ASJ803.html

"Slider" wrote in message
...

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
I want to take a spur off a downstairs ring main. By far the easiest
way to do this will be to T-off the ring under the flooring, rather
than from a socket. (I'm currently redecorating. so I can get to under
the floor.)

I understand that I can't use a standard juntion box, as regs requires
that screwed fittings need to be accessable. My question is - what sort
of fitting should I use?

This is that perennial question, what is 'accessable' in this context?

I think most would agree that under the floorboards it's usually OK to
use a standard JCB, whereas (say) it wouldn't be OK to do it where the
JCB is plastered into a wall.

David

You can get 'maintenance free' JB for this. Although, probably taking it
from an existing socket would be better.

Thanks Slider. I did a search on "maintenance free junction box". This
came up the Ashley J803 Maintenance Free Junction Box 32A 3 Terminal
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products...FQMnGgodeBwtnw

£2.95 + VAT. Looks perfect - cheers.

Steve

"Slider" wrote in message
...

"Steve" wrote in message
...
"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
I want to take a spur off a downstairs ring main. By far the easiest
way to do this will be to T-off the ring under the flooring, rather
than from a socket. (I'm currently redecorating. so I can get to under
the floor.)

I understand that I can't use a standard juntion box, as regs requires
that screwed fittings need to be accessable. My question is - what
sort of fitting should I use?

This is that perennial question, what is 'accessable' in this context?

I think most would agree that under the floorboards it's usually OK to
use a standard JCB, whereas (say) it wouldn't be OK to do it where the
JCB is plastered into a wall.

David

Thanks David. I have large sheets of flooring under the (future) carpet.
I've managed to raise a sheet by removing a skirting board. I don't
think in all honesty this could be called accesible. I know crimps would
be used for joining cables in plaster, but I can't crimp a T-junction
(or are special T-crimps available?!).. There must be an acceptable
fitting for this sort of common situation, surely?

Steve


http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ASJ803.html


Beat you Slider! (but only by nanoseconds).

In article ,
Steve wrote:
I want to take a spur off a downstairs ring main. By far the easiest
way to do this will be to T-off the ring under the flooring, rather
than from a socket. (I'm currently redecorating. so I can get to under
the floor.)

I understand that I can't use a standard juntion box, as regs requires
that screwed fittings need to be accessable. My question is - what
sort of fitting should I use?

Under floorboards is generally considered to be accessible. Even although
it might be difficult to get to later - moving furniture, lifting carpets
etc.

I favour not actually cutting the conductors of the ring when doing this -
with care you can remove only as much insulation as needed to allow
connection to the terminals. Of course this only works with the sort of JB
that has slotted terminals. I'll leave it to others to guess how to
insulate the earth conductor. ;-)

--
*There are two kinds of pedestrians... the quick and the dead.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Steve" wrote in message
...
"Slider" wrote in message
...

"Steve" wrote in message
...
"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
I want to take a spur off a downstairs ring main. By far the easiest
way to do this will be to T-off the ring under the flooring, rather
than from a socket. (I'm currently redecorating. so I can get to under
the floor.)

I understand that I can't use a standard juntion box, as regs requires
that screwed fittings need to be accessable. My question is - what
sort of fitting should I use?

This is that perennial question, what is 'accessable' in this context?

I think most would agree that under the floorboards it's usually OK to
use a standard JCB, whereas (say) it wouldn't be OK to do it where the
JCB is plastered into a wall.

David

Thanks David. I have large sheets of flooring under the (future)
carpet. I've managed to raise a sheet by removing a skirting board. I
don't think in all honesty this could be called accesible. I know
crimps would be used for joining cables in plaster, but I can't crimp a
T-junction (or are special T-crimps available?!).. There must be an
acceptable fitting for this sort of common situation, surely?

Steve


http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ASJ803.html


Beat you Slider! (but only by nanoseconds).


Think you need a new watch as well!! ;-)

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Steve wrote:


Thanks Slider. I did a search on "maintenance free junction box". This
came up the Ashley J803 Maintenance Free Junction Box 32A 3
Terminal
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products...FQMnGgodeBwtnw

£2.95 + VAT. Looks perfect - cheers.

Steve

Looks interesting - and just what I need when I remove a powerpoint but need
to re-join the ring under the floorboards.

The blurb on the TLC site says that the contacts are 'screwless'. Anyone
know how the electrical contacts are actually made?

It appears to allow 4 x 3 conductor cables to be joined - so I assume that
each of the 3 conductors has 4 terminals which are permanently connected
together? If this is the case, it presumably couldn't be used for lighting
circuits where you want to break the live via a switch wire - 'cos that
needs *four* independent terminals?
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Roger Mills wrote:


It appears to allow 4 x 3 conductor cables to be joined - so I assume
that each of the 3 conductors has 4 terminals which are permanently
connected together? If this is the case, it presumably couldn't be
used for lighting circuits where you want to break the live via a
switch wire - 'cos that needs *four* independent terminals?


Ah - I see that they also do a 20A 4-conductor model, which sort of answers
my question.

It still doesn't say how the cable ends are clamped though - anyone know?
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Steve wrote:


Thanks Slider. I did a search on "maintenance free junction box". This
came up the Ashley J803 Maintenance Free Junction Box 32A 3 Terminal
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products...FQMnGgodeBwtnw

£2.95 + VAT. Looks perfect - cheers.

Steve


I wasn't sold on this until I read (under 'Benefits') "Fits nicely in
the hand" That convinced me!!

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...

It still doesn't say how the cable ends are clamped though - anyone know?
--
Cheers,
Roger

The terminals are push fit. A springy sharp edge clamps down on the wire.
The same as wago connectors. See www.wagobox.com
Regards
BruceB

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
It still doesn't say how the cable ends are clamped though - anyone know?
--
Cheers,
Roger

Picture he
http://www.wagobox.com/shop/pushwire/free-sample.html
Regards
Bruce

Peter Watson wrote:
Steve wrote:


Thanks Slider. I did a search on "maintenance free junction box".
This came up the Ashley J803 Maintenance Free Junction Box 32A 3 Terminal
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products...FQMnGgodeBwtnw


£2.95 + VAT. Looks perfect - cheers.

Steve

I wasn't sold on this until I read (under 'Benefits') "Fits nicely in
the hand" That convinced me!!


they claim that:
[[ The Maintenance Free junction box from Ashley is a junction box that
has been manufactured
to accommodate the increasing need to fit junction boxes in so called
'inaccessible' areas.]]
and
[[No other junction box provides as many features that allow
Contractors to comply
with the latest wiring regulations.]]

So they are saying that they are classed as crimping cables,
not those screw in junction boxes which can get loose,

But have Building Inspectors officially passed them as such
or could they demand to inspect them?

[g]

"george (dicegeorge)" wrote in message
...


Peter Watson wrote:
Steve wrote:


Thanks Slider. I did a search on "maintenance free junction
box".
This came up the Ashley J803 Maintenance Free Junction Box 32A 3
Terminal

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products...FQMnGgodeBwtnw


£2.95 + VAT. Looks perfect - cheers.

Steve

I wasn't sold on this until I read (under 'Benefits') "Fits nicely
in
the hand" That convinced me!!


they claim that:
[[ The Maintenance Free junction box from Ashley is a junction box
that
has been manufactured
to accommodate the increasing need to fit junction boxes in so
called
'inaccessible' areas.]]
and
[[No other junction box provides as many features that allow
Contractors to comply
with the latest wiring regulations.]]

So they are saying that they are classed as crimping cables,
not those screw in junction boxes which can get loose,

But have Building Inspectors officially passed them as such
or could they demand to inspect them?

[g]

If they are like the push in connections on some light fittings I'd
avoid them like the plague, and certainly wouldn't want them under any
floor of mine, accessable or not.

AWEM

In article , Roger Mills
writes
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Roger Mills wrote:


It appears to allow 4 x 3 conductor cables to be joined - so I assume
that each of the 3 conductors has 4 terminals which are permanently
connected together? If this is the case, it presumably couldn't be
used for lighting circuits where you want to break the live via a
switch wire - 'cos that needs *four* independent terminals?


Ah - I see that they also do a 20A 4-conductor model, which sort of answers
my question.

It still doesn't say how the cable ends are clamped though - anyone know?

It looks like they are spring clipped, it's a long established technique
for high speed termination with terminal blocks. I remember the name
Wago and "Cage Clamp" but their site is so awful that I lost the will to
find a decent picture, you might get on better searching with those
keywords.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

If they are like the push in connections on some light fittings I'd
avoid them like the plague, and certainly wouldn't want them under any
floor of mine, accessable or not.

Thought that myself when I saw the pic...

They can't be much better than the "screw caps" the yanks used to use!

"Colin Wilson" o.uk
wrote in message
g...
If they are like the push in connections on some light fittings
I'd
avoid them like the plague, and certainly wouldn't want them under
any
floor of mine, accessable or not.

Thought that myself when I saw the pic...

They can't be much better than the "screw caps" the yanks used to
use!

In fairness, those screw caps were used here in the UK back in the
'50's and early '60's. I remember them on the old conduit wires that
were red cloth sheathing with a black tary layer below. Still don't
like the idea of those push in connectors though. The first bit of
slight overheating will take the temper from the springs that they
rely on, then the arcing starts, followed by the blue flashing lights,
sirens, men with hoses, and lots of insurance paperwork G.

AWEM

In article ,
"Steve" writes:
Thanks Slider. I did a search on "maintenance free junction box". This
came up the Ashley J803 Maintenance Free Junction Box 32A 3 Terminal
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products...FQMnGgodeBwtnw

£2.95 + VAT. Looks perfect - cheers.

Contrary to what it says, I don't believe it conforms to the regs.
There's nothing crimped, soldered, or brazed about the connection
(at least, as far as I can see in the picture).

It looks to me like someone just misunderstood that screwed connections
are not permitted. Screwed connection would however be a damn sight
more reliable. You can't get a gas-tight (corrosion resistant) contact
using a spring terminal, and you definitely don't want an inaccessible
spring terminal.

The most accepted method is to use crimps.
I have used a regular screw terminal junction box and then soldered
the terminals too, but this is only suitable if you are good and
competent at soldering.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 19 Jan 2009 23:22:09 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
"Steve" writes:
Thanks Slider. I did a search on "maintenance free junction box". This
came up the Ashley J803 Maintenance Free Junction Box 32A 3 Terminal
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products...FQMnGgodeBwtnw

£2.95 + VAT. Looks perfect - cheers.

Contrary to what it says, I don't believe it conforms to the regs.
There's nothing crimped, soldered, or brazed about the connection
(at least, as far as I can see in the picture).

Do the regs specifically state that such connections must be crimped,
soldered or brazed?

Just curious. I don't have a copy to hand at the mo...!

I agree that spring-type ones (as used in some electroliers) are
pretty awful.

--
Frank Erskine

Andrew Mawson wrote:


If they are like the push in connections on some light fittings I'd
avoid them like the plague, and certainly wouldn't want them under any
floor of mine, accessable or not.

Agreed, poxy things. Lots of light fittings have them now alas.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 19 Jan, 16:36, "Steve" wrote:

Thanks David. *I have large sheets of flooring under the (future) carpet.

In article , The Medway
Handyman writes
Andrew Mawson wrote:


If they are like the push in connections on some light fittings I'd
avoid them like the plague, and certainly wouldn't want them under any
floor of mine, accessable or not.

Agreed, poxy things. Lots of light fittings have them now alas.

What problems have you had with them?
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Steve" writes:
Thanks Slider. I did a search on "maintenance free junction box". This
came up the Ashley J803 Maintenance Free Junction Box 32A 3 Terminal
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products...FQMnGgodeBwtnw

£2.95 + VAT. Looks perfect - cheers.

Contrary to what it says, I don't believe it conforms to the regs.
There's nothing crimped, soldered, or brazed about the connection
(at least, as far as I can see in the picture).

..
..clipped
..
The most accepted method is to use crimps.
I have used a regular screw terminal junction box and then soldered
the terminals too, but this is only suitable if you are good and
competent at soldering.

--
Andrew Gabriel

But you can't get crimps to make a T-junction (as noted earlier). And
soldering in a junction box seems risky as the largish copper (brass?)
terminals will require significant heating, which could easily weaken/damage
the the plastic supporting them.

Steve (OP)