My property was built in 2004. The bathroom cistern is dribbling
slightly into the bowl. That is, you flush the bowl, then if you watch
the surface in the bowl after the water has settled you can observe a
continual slight dribble that lasts indefinitely.

The mechanism looks like the most complicated device I've ever seen!
Look he
http://www.littletyke.myzen.co.uk/cistern/index.html

What is this contraption? Can anyone identify the make? I've had a
quick look in Focus DIY, but none of the replacements are similar.

On the round plastic body there is the wording "To Access Seal ---"
implying that the top part can be twisted and separated from the base
and a seal replaced.

I do have an inline shut-off in the inflow pipe, so it's easy to
isolate the cistern for repairs. To check how much water is being lost
I turned the valve off and marked the water level with a pencil line
at 13:55 this afternoon. The level is now about 2cm lower after about
one hour. That's a LOT of wastage!

Any suggestions for stopping the dribbling?

Thanks!

MM

MM wrote:
My property was built in 2004. The bathroom cistern is dribbling
slightly into the bowl. That is, you flush the bowl, then if you watch
the surface in the bowl after the water has settled you can observe a
continual slight dribble that lasts indefinitely.

The mechanism looks like the most complicated device I've ever seen!
Look he
http://www.littletyke.myzen.co.uk/cistern/index.html


Its called an 'improvement'. There was nothing wrong with the basic siphon,
so it had to be 'improved'. Next version will prolly have three relays and
a bloody warning light...

What is this contraption? Can anyone identify the make? I've had a
quick look in Focus DIY, but none of the replacements are similar.

On the round plastic body there is the wording "To Access Seal ---"
implying that the top part can be twisted and separated from the base
and a seal replaced.

Might find a makers name if you remove it.

I do have an inline shut-off in the inflow pipe, so it's easy to
isolate the cistern for repairs. To check how much water is being lost
I turned the valve off and marked the water level with a pencil line
at 13:55 this afternoon. The level is now about 2cm lower after about
one hour. That's a LOT of wastage!

Does it eventually stop?

Any suggestions for stopping the dribbling?

Not seem that particular make before, but its highly likely that its the
internal overflow operating rather than the siphon leaking.

Try adjusting the ball valve (top right of picky) so that the water level is
say 3cm lower & that should sort it. If not try 4cm.

If the seal does need replacing, the top part does indeed twist on a bayonet
type fitting. No idea where you would get a seal unless you can find a
makers name somewhere.


HTH


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 15:33:15 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

MM wrote:
My property was built in 2004. The bathroom cistern is dribbling
slightly into the bowl. That is, you flush the bowl, then if you watch
the surface in the bowl after the water has settled you can observe a
continual slight dribble that lasts indefinitely.

The mechanism looks like the most complicated device I've ever seen!
Look he
http://www.littletyke.myzen.co.uk/cistern/index.html


Its called an 'improvement'. There was nothing wrong with the basic siphon,
so it had to be 'improved'. Next version will prolly have three relays and
a bloody warning light...

What is this contraption? Can anyone identify the make? I've had a
quick look in Focus DIY, but none of the replacements are similar.

On the round plastic body there is the wording "To Access Seal ---"
implying that the top part can be twisted and separated from the base
and a seal replaced.

Might find a makers name if you remove it.

I do have an inline shut-off in the inflow pipe, so it's easy to
isolate the cistern for repairs. To check how much water is being lost
I turned the valve off and marked the water level with a pencil line
at 13:55 this afternoon. The level is now about 2cm lower after about
one hour. That's a LOT of wastage!

Does it eventually stop?

Any suggestions for stopping the dribbling?

Not seem that particular make before, but its highly likely that its the
internal overflow operating rather than the siphon leaking.

Try adjusting the ball valve (top right of picky) so that the water level is
say 3cm lower & that should sort it. If not try 4cm.

If the seal does need replacing, the top part does indeed twist on a bayonet
type fitting. No idea where you would get a seal unless you can find a
makers name somewhere.


HTH

Thanks, Dave. No, it doesn't eventually stop. I left the inline valve
off while I was away over Christmas and the cistern had emptied
completely by the time I returned on 27th.

MM

MM wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 15:33:15 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

MM wrote:
My property was built in 2004. The bathroom cistern is dribbling
slightly into the bowl. That is, you flush the bowl, then if you
watch the surface in the bowl after the water has settled you can
observe a continual slight dribble that lasts indefinitely.

The mechanism looks like the most complicated device I've ever seen!
Look he
http://www.littletyke.myzen.co.uk/cistern/index.html


Its called an 'improvement'. There was nothing wrong with the basic
siphon, so it had to be 'improved'. Next version will prolly have
three relays and a bloody warning light...

What is this contraption? Can anyone identify the make? I've had a
quick look in Focus DIY, but none of the replacements are similar.

On the round plastic body there is the wording "To Access Seal ---"
implying that the top part can be twisted and separated from the
base and a seal replaced.

Might find a makers name if you remove it.

I do have an inline shut-off in the inflow pipe, so it's easy to
isolate the cistern for repairs. To check how much water is being
lost I turned the valve off and marked the water level with a
pencil line at 13:55 this afternoon. The level is now about 2cm
lower after about one hour. That's a LOT of wastage!

Does it eventually stop?

Any suggestions for stopping the dribbling?

Not seem that particular make before, but its highly likely that its
the internal overflow operating rather than the siphon leaking.

Try adjusting the ball valve (top right of picky) so that the water
level is say 3cm lower & that should sort it. If not try 4cm.

If the seal does need replacing, the top part does indeed twist on a
bayonet type fitting. No idea where you would get a seal unless you
can find a makers name somewhere.


HTH

Thanks, Dave. No, it doesn't eventually stop. I left the inline valve
off while I was away over Christmas and the cistern had emptied
completely by the time I returned on 27th.

Ah OK, it must be the seal then. Untwist the top bit & take it to a 'real'
plumbers shop not a DIY shed. Or find a name & track down the maker online.

If you can't get a seal, fitting a new siphon (of a different make) isn't
very difficult, just check what size the hole in the cistern is. Most are 1
1/2" , some are 2". I can do them in 45 mins or so.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 14:59:58 +0000, MM wrote:

My property was built in 2004. The bathroom cistern is dribbling
slightly into the bowl. That is, you flush the bowl, then if you watch
the surface in the bowl after the water has settled you can observe a
continual slight dribble that lasts indefinitely.

The mechanism looks like the most complicated device I've ever seen!
Look he
http://www.littletyke.myzen.co.uk/cistern/index.html

What is this contraption? Can anyone identify the make? I've had a
quick look in Focus DIY, but none of the replacements are similar.

On the round plastic body there is the wording "To Access Seal ---"
implying that the top part can be twisted and separated from the base
and a seal replaced.

I do have an inline shut-off in the inflow pipe, so it's easy to
isolate the cistern for repairs. To check how much water is being lost
I turned the valve off and marked the water level with a pencil line
at 13:55 this afternoon. The level is now about 2cm lower after about
one hour. That's a LOT of wastage!

Any suggestions for stopping the dribbling?

Thanks!

MM

=========================================
Almost certainly 'Ideal Standard'. Twist the top part anti clockwise (look
for the flimsy little bits adjacent to your pointer) and it will come
away. You should find the maker's name (Amstd fastpart - barely legible)
on the the inner side just below the maximum water level indicator).

I think B&Q stock them.

Cic.

--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 15:48:27 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:

If you can't get a seal, fitting a new siphon (of a different make)
isn't very difficult, just check what size the hole in the cistern is.
Most are 1 1/2" , some are 2". I can do them in 45 mins or so.

Almost certainly 2". Last one I came across I ended up buying a couple[1]
of multikwiks from BES (p/n 19000) and fitting one of those

You'll need a new doughnut washer as well, but I don't know where to
get 2" ones - I ended up adding a ring of plumbers mait to the existing
donut to make sure it re-sealed (which it didn't - gotta go back there
sometime to fix :-()

[1] and keeping the other as a spare for the next time I have to deal with
a barsteward drop valve, which won't be long, I'm sure.



--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Teenagers: tired of being harassed by your stupid parents?
Act now! Move out, get a job and pay your own bills,
while you still know everything!

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 16:07:00 +0000, YAPH wrote:

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 15:48:27 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:

If you can't get a seal, fitting a new siphon (of a different make)
isn't very difficult, just check what size the hole in the cistern is.
Most are 1 1/2" , some are 2". I can do them in 45 mins or so.

Almost certainly 2". Last one I came across I ended up buying a couple[1]
of multikwiks from BES (p/n 19000) and fitting one of those

You'll need a new doughnut washer as well, but I don't know where to
get 2" ones - I ended up adding a ring of plumbers mait to the existing
donut to make sure it re-sealed (which it didn't - gotta go back there
sometime to fix :-()

[1] and keeping the other as a spare for the next time I have to deal with
a barsteward drop valve, which won't be long, I'm sure.

=========================================
If I've identified correctly (see my earlier reply) no major dismantling
is necessary as the top part is removed without needing access to the
bottom of the lower part. The seal is then replaced simply by pulling off
the worn seal before easing the new seal over its retaining lip.

It's actually quite a good design as replacing the seal should take no
more than 5 minutes once the water has been turned off.

Cic.
--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 15:57:18 GMT, Cicero
wrote:

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 14:59:58 +0000, MM wrote:

My property was built in 2004. The bathroom cistern is dribbling
slightly into the bowl. That is, you flush the bowl, then if you watch
the surface in the bowl after the water has settled you can observe a
continual slight dribble that lasts indefinitely.

The mechanism looks like the most complicated device I've ever seen!
Look he
http://www.littletyke.myzen.co.uk/cistern/index.html

What is this contraption? Can anyone identify the make? I've had a
quick look in Focus DIY, but none of the replacements are similar.

On the round plastic body there is the wording "To Access Seal ---"
implying that the top part can be twisted and separated from the base
and a seal replaced.

I do have an inline shut-off in the inflow pipe, so it's easy to
isolate the cistern for repairs. To check how much water is being lost
I turned the valve off and marked the water level with a pencil line
at 13:55 this afternoon. The level is now about 2cm lower after about
one hour. That's a LOT of wastage!

Any suggestions for stopping the dribbling?

Thanks!

MM

=========================================
Almost certainly 'Ideal Standard'. Twist the top part anti clockwise (look
for the flimsy little bits adjacent to your pointer) and it will come
away. You should find the maker's name (Amstd fastpart - barely legible)
on the the inner side just below the maximum water level indicator).

I think B&Q stock them.

Cic.

Cheers for that, and thanks to everybody for your replies.

I take it that I can twist off the top part whilst the gubbins is in
situ? (Maybe I'll have to remove the ball valve arm to allow the top
part to twist.) I'll have a closer look tomorrow with a light and a
mirror, to see whether I can see the maker's name.

MM

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:03:02 +0000, MM wrote:

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 15:57:18 GMT, Cicero
wrote:

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 14:59:58 +0000, MM wrote:

My property was built in 2004. The bathroom cistern is dribbling
slightly into the bowl. That is, you flush the bowl, then if you watch
the surface in the bowl after the water has settled you can observe a
continual slight dribble that lasts indefinitely.

The mechanism looks like the most complicated device I've ever seen!
Look he
http://www.littletyke.myzen.co.uk/cistern/index.html

What is this contraption? Can anyone identify the make? I've had a
quick look in Focus DIY, but none of the replacements are similar.

On the round plastic body there is the wording "To Access Seal ---"
implying that the top part can be twisted and separated from the base
and a seal replaced.

I do have an inline shut-off in the inflow pipe, so it's easy to
isolate the cistern for repairs. To check how much water is being lost
I turned the valve off and marked the water level with a pencil line
at 13:55 this afternoon. The level is now about 2cm lower after about
one hour. That's a LOT of wastage!

Any suggestions for stopping the dribbling?

Thanks!

MM

=========================================
Almost certainly 'Ideal Standard'. Twist the top part anti clockwise (look
for the flimsy little bits adjacent to your pointer) and it will come
away. You should find the maker's name (Amstd fastpart - barely legible)
on the the inner side just below the maximum water level indicator).

I think B&Q stock them.

Cic.

Cheers for that, and thanks to everybody for your replies.

I take it that I can twist off the top part whilst the gubbins is in
situ? (Maybe I'll have to remove the ball valve arm to allow the top
part to twist.) I'll have a closer look tomorrow with a light and a
mirror, to see whether I can see the maker's name.

MM

=========================================
You only need to turn the top part by about 5 degrees (no great force
needed) so the float arm shouldn't be in the way. The lower part of the
assembly stays in place.

See my second reply for a bit more information.

Cic.

--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:14:54 GMT, Cicero
wrote:

You only need to turn the top part by about 5 degrees (no great force
needed) so the float arm shouldn't be in the way. The lower part of the
assembly stays in place.

See my second reply for a bit more information.

Cic.

I've removed the top part. See revised pics (scroll down) at
http://www.littletyke.myzen.co.uk/cistern/index.html

But the black seal appears pristine!

The syphon is indeed marked "AMSTD FASTPART" on the side.

Is this seal available on the internet? I checked on the Fastpart site
and could only see repair kits. I only need this one seal. When you
said it might be available at B&Q, did you mean just the seal or the
whole syphon unit?

Thanks again!

MM

On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 09:30:31 +0000, MM wrote:

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:14:54 GMT, Cicero
wrote:

You only need to turn the top part by about 5 degrees (no great force
needed) so the float arm shouldn't be in the way. The lower part of the
assembly stays in place.

See my second reply for a bit more information.

Cic.

I've removed the top part. See revised pics (scroll down) at
http://www.littletyke.myzen.co.uk/cistern/index.html

But the black seal appears pristine!

The syphon is indeed marked "AMSTD FASTPART" on the side.

Is this seal available on the internet? I checked on the Fastpart site
and could only see repair kits. I only need this one seal. When you
said it might be available at B&Q, did you mean just the seal or the
whole syphon unit?

Thanks again!

MM
==========================================
I believe that I saw this model at B&Q whilst looking for something else
but can't be absolutely sure. Since B&Q are a bit erratic on spares I
wouldn't rely on them having the washer even if they have the complete
item. I don't know about Internet availability as I haven't needed
needed one. However, since you say the washer appears to be in good
condition (and it is quite a substantial item) I would say that the most
likely cause of your problem is simply that the water level is too high
(as suggested by MwHM). Transfer the maximum water level mark from the
rear of the assembly to the front and adjust the water level via the float
in the normal way.

The washer on my unused item looks completely flat but I guess it could
turn up at the outer edge after long use so it would be worth checking how
flat yours is before you re-assemble and check the water level as
suggested above.

Cic.
--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:23:55 GMT, Cicero wrote:

But the black seal appears pristine!

Whats that white blob? B-)

Is the seal fairly soft and plyable to mould to the bottom of the cistern,
still smooth with no indents from gunk on the cistern? If it really is in
good condition I think I'd remove it from the siphon check that the seat
and it are clean and smooth, rotate it a bit, refit and do the same for
the cistern. When refiting to the cistern does it feel as if the seal is
being compressed?

I would say that the most likely cause of your problem is simply that
the water level is too high

Except that the OP has stated that the cisterm will completely empty if
left with the supply isolated for a day or two. Water level to high
causing an overflow wouldn't do that.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 11:30:08 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:23:55 GMT, Cicero wrote:

But the black seal appears pristine!

Whats that white blob? B-)

Dunno. Since I took the unit out to photograph I've removed the seal
and given it a good wash. (I looked in Focus and Homebase, plus a
couple of local hardware (mom & pop type) stores, but no dice.)

Is the seal fairly soft and plyable to mould to the bottom of the cistern,

Seems so. It's only approximately four years old after all! I've got
exactly the same unit in the downstairs loo and that one is NOT
dribbling. (Downstairs has had a lot less use, though.)

still smooth with no indents from gunk on the cistern?

Well, there are ~some~ very faint marks when one looks really closely,
but you have to wipe it really clean and hold it under the light to
see.

If it really is in
good condition I think I'd remove it from the siphon check that the seat
and it are clean and smooth, rotate it a bit, refit and do the same for
the cistern. When refiting to the cistern does it feel as if the seal is
being compressed?

On the latter point, yes, it does feel like it's being compressed.
I'll try what you suggest re rotating.

I would say that the most likely cause of your problem is simply that
the water level is too high

Except that the OP has stated that the cisterm will completely empty if
left with the supply isolated for a day or two. Water level to high
causing an overflow wouldn't do that.

I agree with that latter point since the water level drops right down
if the inflow valve is closed.

I sent an email to FastPart this morning, asking them whether the seal
is available separately, but I haven't heard back yet. Probably shut
until Monday. There MUST surely be a replacement seal available,
otherwise what's the point of making the top part quick-release to
gain access?

MM

On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 17:30:48 +0000, MM wrote:

On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 11:30:08 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:23:55 GMT, Cicero wrote:

But the black seal appears pristine!

Whats that white blob? B-)

Dunno. Since I took the unit out to photograph I've removed the seal and
given it a good wash. (I looked in Focus and Homebase, plus a couple of
local hardware (mom & pop type) stores, but no dice.)

Is the seal fairly soft and plyable to mould to the bottom of the
cistern,

Seems so. It's only approximately four years old after all! I've got
exactly the same unit in the downstairs loo and that one is NOT
dribbling. (Downstairs has had a lot less use, though.)

still smooth with no indents from gunk on the cistern?

Well, there are ~some~ very faint marks when one looks really closely,
but you have to wipe it really clean and hold it under the light to see.

If it really is in
good condition I think I'd remove it from the siphon check that the seat
and it are clean and smooth, rotate it a bit, refit and do the same for
the cistern. When refiting to the cistern does it feel as if the seal is
being compressed?

On the latter point, yes, it does feel like it's being compressed. I'll
try what you suggest re rotating.

I would say that the most likely cause of your problem is simply that
the water level is too high

Except that the OP has stated that the cisterm will completely empty if
left with the supply isolated for a day or two. Water level to high
causing an overflow wouldn't do that.

I agree with that latter point since the water level drops right down if
the inflow valve is closed.

I sent an email to FastPart this morning, asking them whether the seal
is available separately, but I haven't heard back yet. Probably shut
until Monday. There MUST surely be a replacement seal available,
otherwise what's the point of making the top part quick-release to gain
access?

MM

=========================================
I missed your original statement (until reminded by DL) about the cistern
draining fully when the water is turned off. In the light of this I think
you're looking at the wrong place for the fault. The fault is probably a
defective sealing washer at the base of the siphon unit where it fits
through the hole in the cistern. This is a thin (about 2 / 3mm) plain
rubber washer about 2.25" inner diameter and a seating diameter of 3.25".

In view of the volume of water being lost you may be able to feel some
wetness at the base of the cistern where it joins the pan as the rubber
doughnut might have absorbed some of the leakage.

Of course it's still possible that the water level is too high but that's
a separate issue which can be sorted when you've confirmed the point of
leakage.

Cic.

--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Cicero wrote:

In the light of
this I think you're looking at the wrong place for the fault. The
fault is probably a defective sealing washer at the base of the
siphon unit where it fits through the hole in the cistern. This is a
thin (about 2 / 3mm) plain rubber washer about 2.25" inner diameter
and a seating diameter of 3.25".

In view of the volume of water being lost you may be able to feel some
wetness at the base of the cistern where it joins the pan as the
rubber doughnut might have absorbed some of the leakage.


You beat me to it - I was going to suggest the same thing.

I think the OP needs to re-assemble the syphon and then remove the cistern
from the pan, support it in some suitable way, and part fill it with water.
It should then be possible to see whether water is coming out from *inside*
the outlet tube (leaking syphon seal) or *outside* it (leaking
syphon/cistern point). I suspect the latter.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Cicero wrote:

In the light of
this I think you're looking at the wrong place for the fault. The
fault is probably a defective sealing washer at the base of the
siphon unit where it fits through the hole in the cistern. This is a
thin (about 2 / 3mm) plain rubber washer about 2.25" inner diameter
and a seating diameter of 3.25".

In view of the volume of water being lost you may be able to feel
some wetness at the base of the cistern where it joins the pan as the
rubber doughnut might have absorbed some of the leakage.


You beat me to it - I was going to suggest the same thing.

I think the OP needs to re-assemble the syphon and then remove the
cistern from the pan, support it in some suitable way, and part fill
it with water. It should then be possible to see whether water is
coming out from *inside* the outlet tube (leaking syphon seal) or
*outside* it (leaking syphon/cistern point). I suspect the latter.

I'd suspect the latter as well. I'd remake the syphon/cistern joint with a
dose of LSX.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:41:00 -0000, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Cicero wrote:

In the light of
this I think you're looking at the wrong place for the fault. The
fault is probably a defective sealing washer at the base of the
siphon unit where it fits through the hole in the cistern. This is a
thin (about 2 / 3mm) plain rubber washer about 2.25" inner diameter
and a seating diameter of 3.25".

In view of the volume of water being lost you may be able to feel some
wetness at the base of the cistern where it joins the pan as the
rubber doughnut might have absorbed some of the leakage.


You beat me to it - I was going to suggest the same thing.

I think the OP needs to re-assemble the syphon and then remove the cistern
from the pan, support it in some suitable way, and part fill it with water.
It should then be possible to see whether water is coming out from *inside*
the outlet tube (leaking syphon seal) or *outside* it (leaking
syphon/cistern point). I suspect the latter.

I should be able to test this by blocking off the large hole (e.g. by
manually pressing the "plunger" part from the syphon with the black
seal on the end tightly against its seating), then pouring enough
water in to cover the boss. If this IS the problem, is that
2.25"/3.25" seal/washer available as a spare?

MM

MM wrote:
On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:41:00 -0000, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Cicero wrote:

In the light of
this I think you're looking at the wrong place for the fault. The
fault is probably a defective sealing washer at the base of the
siphon unit where it fits through the hole in the cistern. This is a
thin (about 2 / 3mm) plain rubber washer about 2.25" inner diameter
and a seating diameter of 3.25".

In view of the volume of water being lost you may be able to feel
some wetness at the base of the cistern where it joins the pan as
the rubber doughnut might have absorbed some of the leakage.


You beat me to it - I was going to suggest the same thing.

I think the OP needs to re-assemble the syphon and then remove the
cistern from the pan, support it in some suitable way, and part fill
it with water. It should then be possible to see whether water is
coming out from *inside* the outlet tube (leaking syphon seal) or
*outside* it (leaking syphon/cistern point). I suspect the latter.

I should be able to test this by blocking off the large hole (e.g. by
manually pressing the "plunger" part from the syphon with the black
seal on the end tightly against its seating), then pouring enough
water in to cover the boss. If this IS the problem, is that
2.25"/3.25" seal/washer available as a spare?

Probably at a proper plumbing place, but LSX above & below would sort it.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 11:04:04 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

MM wrote:
On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:41:00 -0000, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Cicero wrote:

In the light of
this I think you're looking at the wrong place for the fault. The
fault is probably a defective sealing washer at the base of the
siphon unit where it fits through the hole in the cistern. This is a
thin (about 2 / 3mm) plain rubber washer about 2.25" inner diameter
and a seating diameter of 3.25".

In view of the volume of water being lost you may be able to feel
some wetness at the base of the cistern where it joins the pan as
the rubber doughnut might have absorbed some of the leakage.


You beat me to it - I was going to suggest the same thing.

I think the OP needs to re-assemble the syphon and then remove the
cistern from the pan, support it in some suitable way, and part fill
it with water. It should then be possible to see whether water is
coming out from *inside* the outlet tube (leaking syphon seal) or
*outside* it (leaking syphon/cistern point). I suspect the latter.

I should be able to test this by blocking off the large hole (e.g. by
manually pressing the "plunger" part from the syphon with the black
seal on the end tightly against its seating), then pouring enough
water in to cover the boss. If this IS the problem, is that
2.25"/3.25" seal/washer available as a spare?

Probably at a proper plumbing place, but LSX above & below would sort it.

I now know it's deffo the seal on the syphon plunger. This is what I
did. I took the seal on its own and placed it over the conical seating
on the plastic boss inside the cistern. There is a 1" dia hole in the
centre of the seal, so I took a tin of shaving gel, covered the hole
with it, pushing down on the seal to completely seal off the outlet to
the bowl. Then, with the other free hand, I carefully poured water
from a milk carton into the cistern ONLY UP TO JUST ABOVE THE SEAL and
watched for dribbling. No dribbles! Then I relaxed pressure slightly.
Dribbles!

Now when I said the other day that the cistern completely drains if
left for a day or two with the inflow valve off, on closer inspection
this is not true. On my return after Christmas I glanced into the
cistern (I'd left the top cover off) and it appeared empty. But
actually, the plastic boss containing the conical seat on which the
rubber seal makes contact when the plunger is dropped down is slightly
higher than the bottom surface of the cistern. I'd say about 5mm
higher. And there is about 5mm of water residual in the cistern after
it has drained. Probably, when I was away for four days the residual
water had almost dried out due to evaporation, so to all intents and
purposes the cistern appeared to have emptied.

Anyway, I just had a brainwave (in the last couple of hours). I
swapped the top part from the downstairs loo with the bathroom one. No
dribbling!!! I've switched the water back on again and flushed a
couple of times. Still no dribbling!!! So it is definitely the rubber
seal on the end of the plunger thingy.

However, on inspecting the downstairs unit, having put the top part
from the bathroom in it, that one doesn't appear to be dribbling
EITHER! So whether it's just that the one seal got too used to its
seating and now with a different seating it's okay, I don't know.
Anyway, I'll watch both cisterns to see if the levels drop over the
weekend, then resume my search for seals on Monday, maybe popping over
to B&Q if I get no reply from FastPart.

MM

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:54:28 +0000, MM wrote:

Anyway, I just had a brainwave (in the last couple of hours). I
swapped the top part from the downstairs loo with the bathroom one. No
dribbling!!! I've switched the water back on again and flushed a
couple of times. Still no dribbling!!! So it is definitely the rubber
seal on the end of the plunger thingy.

PS to my last post: The seal on the top part from the downstairs loo
has some blue gunk on the contact surface, which I left in place.
Anyone know what this blue gunk is? It must have been smeared on when
the unit was being assembled when the house was built in 2004.
Whatever it is, it has mostly stayed in place despite numerous
flushings over four years. NB: This gunk is definitely man-made, i.e.
not some chemical reaction. It definitely looks as if the plumber
smeared some "stuff" on the seal before assembling the syphon inside
the cistern.

MM

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 13:01:58 +0000, MM wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:54:28 +0000, MM wrote:

Anyway, I just had a brainwave (in the last couple of hours). I
swapped the top part from the downstairs loo with the bathroom one. No
dribbling!!! I've switched the water back on again and flushed a
couple of times. Still no dribbling!!! So it is definitely the rubber
seal on the end of the plunger thingy.

PS to my last post: The seal on the top part from the downstairs loo
has some blue gunk on the contact surface, which I left in place.
Anyone know what this blue gunk is? It must have been smeared on when
the unit was being assembled when the house was built in 2004.
Whatever it is, it has mostly stayed in place despite numerous
flushings over four years. NB: This gunk is definitely man-made, i.e.
not some chemical reaction. It definitely looks as if the plumber
smeared some "stuff" on the seal before assembling the syphon inside
the cistern.

Hylomar blue?

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Dave Liquorice"
saying something like:

Except that the OP has stated that the cisterm will completely empty if
left with the supply isolated for a day or two. Water level to high
causing an overflow wouldn't do that.

I've had a couple where the casting marks inside prevented the inner
seal from doing its job and they had to be ground down flush.

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 17:50:50 +0000, Alang
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 13:01:58 +0000, MM wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:54:28 +0000, MM wrote:

Anyway, I just had a brainwave (in the last couple of hours). I
swapped the top part from the downstairs loo with the bathroom one. No
dribbling!!! I've switched the water back on again and flushed a
couple of times. Still no dribbling!!! So it is definitely the rubber
seal on the end of the plunger thingy.

PS to my last post: The seal on the top part from the downstairs loo
has some blue gunk on the contact surface, which I left in place.
Anyone know what this blue gunk is? It must have been smeared on when
the unit was being assembled when the house was built in 2004.
Whatever it is, it has mostly stayed in place despite numerous
flushings over four years. NB: This gunk is definitely man-made, i.e.
not some chemical reaction. It definitely looks as if the plumber
smeared some "stuff" on the seal before assembling the syphon inside
the cistern.

Hylomar blue?

Yes, that must be the stuff, thanks! It must be a most amazing
product, since the product information says:

Non hardening and non setting
Unlimited assembly time
Vibration resistant
Allows metal to metal contact
Resistant to combustion products, water, engine coolant, petroleum,
lubricating oils, kerosene and fluorocarbon refrigerants
Seals surface imperfections
Withstands rapid variations in temperature
Flame, dust and moisture proofing properties

I'll monitor for any dribbling and if it appears again I'll get a tube
of this material. Only £2.95 plus VAT, so it's not expensive.

I think I am getting closer to a dribble-free existence again! Thanks
to all in this thread.

MM