In article ,
Mark writes:

Agreed. But I do wonder why people are prepared to drive a 70+ mile
round trip just to get free parking?


As Derek said, parking charges are simply a big sign
saying **** Off, and so people do because they don't
like being spoken to in that way. Retailers know it;
it's just councils who are clueless. It doesn't matter
how small the charge is -- that's not the point.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 08 Jan 2009 23:11:30 GMT Andrew Gabriel wrote :
As Derek said, parking charges are simply a big sign
saying **** Off, and so people do because they don't
like being spoken to in that way. Retailers know it;
it's just councils who are clueless. It does't matter
how small the charge is -- that's not the point.

You're right, it's a psychological thing. People (myself
included back in the UK) would spend 30p to drive to a large
Tesco with free parking rather than put 20p in a meter.

The answer is simple. Reverse the current system so that
councils keep business rates instead of central government and
all parking revenue goes to central government funds.

This done, local councils would start thinking about the
minimum level of parking enforcement required to ensure safety
and traffic flow, and where parking does need to be rationed
by price, how cheap can they make it. Meanwhile councils who
are losing serious money over shut-down Woolworths etc would
make it clear to their planners that they should work
positively with anyone who might wish to reopen it.

Meanwhile back in the real world, just to further the decline
of my old home of Twickenham, LBRuT has this bright notion of
charging owners of higher-CO2 cars more to park.

--
Tony Bryer, 'Software to build on' from Greentram
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com

The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:


I am afraid this is the consequences of stupid town planning: it's the
same in Cambridge. The residents get all arsey about cars and traffic
and parking, so they make it a nightmare for out of towners: the next
ting that happens is that no one wants to come in at all, and they
complain about shops closing.

We just buy online almost exclusively.

At long last the rural dwellers can get their revenge :-)

On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:14:30 +0000, Mark wrote:

Agreed. But I do wonder why people are prepared to drive a 70+ mile
round trip just to get free parking?

Because they don't consider the cost of the car journey. If they actually
worked out how much that 70 mile round trip really cost they'd make a
shorter trip and pay the car park charge.

40p/mile is on the low side of the real cost of running a car, so that
trip really costs £28.00. £8.00 of which is the 2 gallons of fuel. Ball
park figures, with average cars, not nasty little tiny tin boxes doing 70
to the gallon.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 09 Jan 2009 11:54:03 +1100, Tony Bryer wrote:

Meanwhile back in the real world, just to further the decline
of my old home of Twickenham, LBRuT has this bright notion of
charging owners of higher-CO2 cars more to park.

Well I hope that the residents tell *their* council to FOAD, like
Manchester recently did over the proposed "congestion charge" for that
city.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 09 Jan 2009 01:20:06 +0000 (GMT) Dave Liquorice wrote :
Meanwhile back in the real world, just to further the decline
of my old home of Twickenham, LBRuT has this bright notion of
charging owners of higher-CO2 cars more to park.

Well I hope that the residents tell *their* council to FOAD,
like Manchester recently did over the proposed "congestion
charge" for that city.

OK when the council prices residents parking permits by CO2 -
which LBRuT instituted (and which left me, with a Honda Jazz,
better off), but when it comes to casual parking, those affected
may well live elsewhere and its not their council. Sure they can
'vote' by taking their custom elsewhere, but since councils don't
receive business rates, just a share of the national pool, they
have no direct financial interest in the health of their town
centres.


--
Tony Bryer, 'Software to build on' from Greentram
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com

On Fri, 09 Jan 2009 01:13:13 +0000 (GMT) Dave Liquorice wrote :
40p/mile is on the low side of the real cost of running a car,
so that trip really costs £28.00. £8.00 of which is the 2
gallons of fuel. Ball park figures, with average cars, not nasty
little tiny tin boxes doing 70 to the gallon.

No, no, no! The relevant figure is the marginal cost of driving
the extra miles. Driving extra miles costs you nothing in tax and
insurance, may not cost you anything in servicing if this is
determined by time rather than distance. Likewise the extra cost
of tyre wear and depreciation may be nil if you're only doing a
low mileage.

70 miles is a bit way out; what is more relevant is that people
will drive a couple of miles each way (say 60-80p) to save 20p

--
Tony Bryer, 'Software to build on' from Greentram
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com

Appin wrote:

The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

We just buy online almost exclusively.

At long last the rural dwellers can get their revenge :-)

Just so long as they are at home to accept the delivery ;-)

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

Tony Bryer wrote:
As Derek said, parking charges are simply a big sign
saying **** Off, and so people do because they don't
like being spoken to in that way. Retailers know it;
it's just councils who are clueless. It does't matter
how small the charge is -- that's not the point.

You're right, it's a psychological thing. People (myself included back
in the UK) would spend 30p to drive to a large Tesco with free parking
rather than put 20p in a meter.


It isn't so much the meter charges as the severe penalties for
overstaying, which defeat the whole objective of casual browsing.

(Not that I do much of that kind of shopping myself - I normally prefer
SAS methods.)


--
Ian White

Ian White coughed up some electrons that declared:


It isn't so much the meter charges as the severe penalties for
overstaying, which defeat the whole objective of casual browsing.

Exactly. Why, when I go to hospital or to a car park in Tunbridge Wells, do
I need to "guess" the correct time to the nearest hour that I'm staying
using a pay'n'display machine?

In either case, I have no idea much of the time, so usually end up over
paying. Pay-on-exit isn't exactly an unsolved problem. I don't care if it
costs the car park operator to put in exit barriers - it's them who's
making a profit.

The hospital could solve the problem more cheaply with pay'n'display in 5-6
hour increments - nobody wants to stay in hospital longer than necessary
and 5-6 hours would be enough to prevent abuse by commuters if there's a
station nearby...

Cheers

Tim

Chris J Dixon wrote:
Appin wrote:

The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

We just buy online almost exclusively.
At long last the rural dwellers can get their revenge :-)

Just so long as they are at home to accept the delivery ;-)


We always are. Such work as we do, is done from home.


Chris

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:14:30 +0000, Mark wrote:

Agreed. But I do wonder why people are prepared to drive a 70+ mile
round trip just to get free parking?

Because they don't consider the cost of the car journey. If they actually
worked out how much that 70 mile round trip really cost they'd make a
shorter trip and pay the car park charge.

40p/mile is on the low side of the real cost of running a car, so that
trip really costs £28.00. £8.00 of which is the 2 gallons of fuel. Ball
park figures, with average cars, not nasty little tiny tin boxes doing 70
to the gallon.

It used to cost £5 for a waitrose online delivery. Thats 20 miles round
trip. At 25p a mile average sort of cost (fuel, tyres etc) its pretty
even stevens.

Any trip to a major city tat involves paying 5-10 for parking, o a bus
ride from a park'n'ride that means you have to lug heavy bags top and
from bus stops, is out.

The only efficient thing for buying exactly what you already know you
need is online. You gasp at the 5 quid postage on a 5 quid item..and the
calculate the cost of going to town, ordering it, going back, going in
again when it arrives...

Even a phone call costs money.

Tony Bryer wrote:
On Fri, 09 Jan 2009 01:13:13 +0000 (GMT) Dave Liquorice wrote :
40p/mile is on the low side of the real cost of running a car,
so that trip really costs £28.00. £8.00 of which is the 2
gallons of fuel. Ball park figures, with average cars, not nasty
little tiny tin boxes doing 70 to the gallon.

No, no, no! The relevant figure is the marginal cost of driving
the extra miles. Driving extra miles costs you nothing in tax and
insurance, may not cost you anything in servicing if this is
determined by time rather than distance. Likewise the extra cost
of tyre wear and depreciation may be nil if you're only doing a
low mileage.

You have to factor in tyres and brakes unless you are doing REALLY low
mileage, in which case sell the car and hire as needed.


If an average set of tryes costs what - 300 quid for about 20k miles,
hats 1.5p a mile straight.

Brakes need relining at similar intervals and chances are, new discs at
every other interval.


70 miles is a bit way out; what is more relevant is that people
will drive a couple of miles each way (say 60-80p) to save 20p

wrote:

Trouble with 'making work fun' is it means working at a fraction of
the speed people can reasonably do.

Not at all. When I enjoy my work I get vastly more done than when I don't.

Pete

The message
from Chris J Dixon contains these words:

Appin wrote:

The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

We just buy online almost exclusively.

At long last the rural dwellers can get their revenge :-)

Just so long as they are at home to accept the delivery ;-)

No problem, some of us work from home. And accept deliveries for a
number of other people. And know the delivery drivers for all the major
delivery companies. And have two alternative delivery points clearly
specified for use in the very rare circumstance that we're not at home.

Pete Verdon wrote:
wrote:

Trouble with 'making work fun' is it means working at a fraction of
the speed people can reasonably do.

Not at all. When I enjoy my work I get vastly more done than when I don't.


seconded.

Pete

Appin wrote:
The message
from Chris J Dixon contains these words:

Appin wrote:

The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

We just buy online almost exclusively.
At long last the rural dwellers can get their revenge :-)

Just so long as they are at home to accept the delivery ;-)

No problem, some of us work from home. And accept deliveries for a
number of other people. And know the delivery drivers for all the major
delivery companies. And have two alternative delivery points clearly
specified for use in the very rare circumstance that we're not at home.

you would be surprised how much more it feels like a 'community' and
how much less crime there is when everyone IS at home..

Huge wrote:
On 2009-01-09, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Appin wrote:

The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

We just buy online almost exclusively.
At long last the rural dwellers can get their revenge :-)
Just so long as they are at home to accept the delivery ;-)

Not needed. Out stuff gets left at the village shop, if they don't leave it in
the porch.

Ours is generally left with my cousin down the road.

The recession is here. I still can't believe the customer misservice
attitudes abounding.

Went into a kitchen suppliers in T Wells this morning... Supposedly a good
one. Superficially nice stuff, but on closer inspection, lots of chipboard
in the shelves and carcasses.

OK - it's a certain price bracket - but I despise chip personally,
especially near things that are wet or need cleaning. But what got me was
the bloke's attitude (paraphrased):

Me: Hmm chip. I'm worried about spillages killing it.

Him: None of the other customers have complained. You don't spill things in
cupboards anyway.

Me: We do.

Him: How?

Me: Soy sauce bottles always seem to dribble, once a jar from a supermarket
wasn't noticed to be cracked, got put in and collapsed spontaneously later.
And washing the shelves always exposes the chip to damp

Him: Well, no one puts jars in cupboards - they use this demonstrates
sliding pull out drawer thing

Me: Thinks WTF? He's telling me that my experiences didn't happen - does he
think I'm dreaming them?!!

Sigh...

Then...

Me: Are the feet the usual adjustable affairs? I have a flat but not
perfectly level floor.

Him: Oh just put some latex down - it levels itself.

Me: No it doesn't, it smooths itself. Please explain how to level a floor
with 30mm variation without ending up with a step.

Him ???

Me: Other than a *lot* of grinding or digging out the floor, the only
practical solution is a little grinding and a little screeding *flat* but
slightly off level. Maybe 8mm in 2m.

Him: Oh, er. Yes, the feet will adjust to that.

---

So instead of addressing my concerns which are valid, he chose to argue the
toss about everything. Needless to say he's straight off the list. Silly
rabbit.

Contrast with a quick visit to Topps Tiles to show SWMBO the porcelain tiles
I found 2 weeks back. Very helpful to a man/lady. Showed me their version
of Marmox insulating board ("Warmup" - identical stuff). Listened to my
technical arguments about what I was after, listened to SWMBOs artistic
theories and showed us lots of interesting stuff.

I'm going to try my damndest to given them a big sale if we can agree on
some tiles from their ranges.

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:
The recession is here. I still can't believe the customer misservice
attitudes abounding.

Went into a kitchen suppliers in T Wells this morning... Supposedly a good
one. Superficially nice stuff, but on closer inspection, lots of chipboard
in the shelves and carcasses.

OK - it's a certain price bracket - but I despise chip personally,
especially near things that are wet or need cleaning. But what got me was
the bloke's attitude (paraphrased):

Me: Hmm chip. I'm worried about spillages killing it.

Him: None of the other customers have complained. You don't spill things in
cupboards anyway.

Me: We do.

Him: How?

Me: Soy sauce bottles always seem to dribble, once a jar from a supermarket
wasn't noticed to be cracked, got put in and collapsed spontaneously later.
And washing the shelves always exposes the chip to damp

Him: Well, no one puts jars in cupboards - they use this demonstrates
sliding pull out drawer thing

Me: Thinks WTF? He's telling me that my experiences didn't happen - does he
think I'm dreaming them?!!

Sigh...

Then...

Me: Are the feet the usual adjustable affairs? I have a flat but not
perfectly level floor.

Him: Oh just put some latex down - it levels itself.

Me: No it doesn't, it smooths itself. Please explain how to level a floor
with 30mm variation without ending up with a step.

Him ???

Me: Other than a *lot* of grinding or digging out the floor, the only
practical solution is a little grinding and a little screeding *flat* but
slightly off level. Maybe 8mm in 2m.

Him: Oh, er. Yes, the feet will adjust to that.

---

So instead of addressing my concerns which are valid, he chose to argue the
toss about everything. Needless to say he's straight off the list. Silly
rabbit.

Contrast with a quick visit to Topps Tiles to show SWMBO the porcelain tiles
I found 2 weeks back. Very helpful to a man/lady. Showed me their version
of Marmox insulating board ("Warmup" - identical stuff). Listened to my
technical arguments about what I was after, listened to SWMBOs artistic
theories and showed us lots of interesting stuff.

I'm going to try my damndest to given them a big sale if we can agree on
some tiles from their ranges.

I have always found Topps Tiles to be one of the best shops I have used.
Helpful, very knowledgeable and eager to please.

Dave

On 10 Jan 2009 09:28:31 GMT Huge wrote :
Not needed. Out stuff gets left at the village shop, if they don't
leave it in the porch.

No idea on what happens here in Melbourne wrt couriers, but if
Australia Post can't deliver a package that needs a sig they card
you and leave it at the nearest post office - a few minutes walk
away in my case. Beats trailing off to a distant sorting office.
ISTR that there was some talk of UK post offices offering a take-in
service - did this ever happen?

--
Tony Bryer, 'Software to build on' from Greentram
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com

On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:51:42 UTC, Tony Bryer
wrote:

On 10 Jan 2009 09:28:31 GMT Huge wrote :
Not needed. Out stuff gets left at the village shop, if they don't
leave it in the porch.

No idea on what happens here in Melbourne wrt couriers, but if
Australia Post can't deliver a package that needs a sig they card
you and leave it at the nearest post office - a few minutes walk
away in my case. Beats trailing off to a distant sorting office.

My delivery office (not the same as a sorting office, but the one you
mean) is 400 yards away..

ISTR that there was some talk of UK post offices offering a take-in
service - did this ever happen?

Quite a while ago. You can have an undelivered item left there for a
small fee (50p). In fact, they waived the charge for the month of
December. Or have it redelivered (to an alternate address if you wish)
free.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mark writes:

Agreed. But I do wonder why people are prepared to drive a 70+ mile
round trip just to get free parking?


As Derek said, parking charges are simply a big sign
saying **** Off, and so people do because they don't
like being spoken to in that way. Retailers know it;
it's just councils who are clueless. It doesn't matter
how small the charge is -- that's not the point.

The point is that you might drive in and park even if you don't want
anything specific when its free.
If its going to cost money to park then you want a reason to go there.
This reduces the sales of many shops and they go under.
Once they go under nobody wants to shop where half the stores are empty and
the rest are run by Oxfam.

Councils think the way to fix this is to make sure everywhere has parking
charges which obviously isn't going to work.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


If an average set of tryes costs what - 300 quid for about 20k miles, hats
1.5p a mile straight.

Brakes need relining at similar intervals and chances are, new discs at
every other interval.

Really?
I have worn out tyres but I have never had to have the brakes relined on any
car I have had.
They appear to last at least 60,000 miles.

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 07:51:42 +1100, Tony Bryer
wrote:

On 10 Jan 2009 09:28:31 GMT Huge wrote :
Not needed. Out stuff gets left at the village shop, if they don't
leave it in the porch.

No idea on what happens here in Melbourne wrt couriers, but if
Australia Post can't deliver a package that needs a sig they card
you and leave it at the nearest post office - a few minutes walk
away in my case. Beats trailing off to a distant sorting office.
ISTR that there was some talk of UK post offices offering a take-in
service - did this ever happen?

Our local post office is in the town centre. It's right on a main road
dual carriageway clearway. No parking if you need to get a heavy
parcel. They used to have a drive in pickup point round the back but
closed it off on grounds of 'security'. Royal Mail is crap. Not
because of the workers but because of crap managers.

I'm currently waiting for delivery of some equipment sent by their
parcel force sector. They were supposed to deliver Friday. I had
someone waiting all Friday so they decided to deliver Saturday
morning. Nobody at home. I'v arranged to have someone in on Monday but
if the delivery gets here before 8am It means I have a 40 mile drive
to their nearest depot.

Alang wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 07:51:42 +1100, Tony Bryer
wrote:

On 10 Jan 2009 09:28:31 GMT Huge wrote :
Not needed. Out stuff gets left at the village shop, if they don't
leave it in the porch.
No idea on what happens here in Melbourne wrt couriers, but if
Australia Post can't deliver a package that needs a sig they card
you and leave it at the nearest post office - a few minutes walk
away in my case. Beats trailing off to a distant sorting office.
ISTR that there was some talk of UK post offices offering a take-in
service - did this ever happen?

Our local post office is in the town centre. It's right on a main road
dual carriageway clearway. No parking if you need to get a heavy
parcel. They used to have a drive in pickup point round the back but
closed it off on grounds of 'security'. Royal Mail is crap. Not
because of the workers but because of crap managers.

I'm currently waiting for delivery of some equipment sent by their
parcel force sector. They were supposed to deliver Friday. I had
someone waiting all Friday so they decided to deliver Saturday
morning. Nobody at home. I'v arranged to have someone in on Monday but
if the delivery gets here before 8am It means I have a 40 mile drive
to their nearest depot.

My parcels get left at the local sorting office (1 mile).... if they
happen to have space. If not, it gets left a the bigger depot 10 miles
away. Luck of the draw

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:57:05 UTC, Stuart Noble
wrote:

My parcels get left at the local sorting office (1 mile).... if they
happen to have space. If not, it gets left a the bigger depot 10 miles
away. Luck of the draw

That works for Royal Mail parcels, and for me that delivery office is
400 yards away. In fact I often force delivery there (saves a day when
they try to deliver) by using my PO box.

ParcelForce is a different matter - their depot *used* to be 7 miles
away - now it's 30 miles...
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com