I have a diesel transit (2.5L K reg) that hasn't been run for a year or so, but was formerly a very
quick starter, even when cold - have been through a few charge/try-to-start cycles, (maybe a total
of a couple of mins cranking in 10 sec bursts) with no signs of life - I'm guessing fuel may have
run back & isn't getting through - ISTR something similar a while ago when it wasn't run for a
while.

Any hints for how to get it going - is there an easy way to prime the pump etc.? Is it possible that
the fuel shutoff valve has stuck?

"Mike Harrison" wrote in message
...
I have a diesel transit (2.5L K reg) that hasn't been run for a year
or so, but was formerly a very
quick starter, even when cold - have been through a few
charge/try-to-start cycles, (maybe a total
of a couple of mins cranking in 10 sec bursts) with no signs of
life - I'm guessing fuel may have
run back & isn't getting through - ISTR something similar a while
ago when it wasn't run for a
while.

Any hints for how to get it going - is there an easy way to prime
the pump etc.? Is it possible that
the fuel shutoff valve has stuck?


If it's as cold with you as it is here (-6 this morning) then possibly
you have frozen droplets of water in the fuel stopping it flowing. My
Thwaites dumper truck took me a good half hour to start yesterday as a
fuel pipe was frozen solid

AWEM

"Mike Harrison" wrote in message
...
I have a diesel transit (2.5L K reg) that hasn't been run for a year or so,
but was formerly a very
quick starter, even when cold - have been through a few
charge/try-to-start cycles, (maybe a total
of a couple of mins cranking in 10 sec bursts) with no signs of life -
I'm guessing fuel may have
run back & isn't getting through - ISTR something similar a while ago when
it wasn't run for a
while.

Any hints for how to get it going - is there an easy way to prime the pump
etc.? Is it possible that
the fuel shutoff valve has stuck?


slacken off an injector pipe union, then get someone to crank it over and
see if you get any fuel out the cracked open union, that'll tell you if it's
a fuel or heat problem.

if no fuel at the injectors, first thing to check is the damn awfull
diaphram in the primer pump, push the black 'button' a few times on the top
of the fuel filter, if it has resistance then it might be ok, but they rot
away with no warning, so i'd expect you to find no resistance at all there,
if so that's the problem, get a new filter primer head to sort it.

if you get fuel at the injectors and still no start, then check the cold
start cable hasnt snapped, there will be a shirt bowden type cable going
from the pump to a large metal cylinder on the engine, this has a wax stat
in it and pulls on the cold start lever when it's cold, releasing it as the
engine warms up.

i had a works trannie that the cable had snapped on, would start down to
around 5 degrees c, but below that i had to wedge the cold start lever on to
get it to fire,

try to move the cold start lever, if it moves the cables snapped inside the
outer cable) so pull the lever in and get someone to start the engine....
it'll start again all day from then on, but the next day if cold enough
you'll have to do the same) of course the wax stat could have failed, so
undoo the big nut and operate the cold start that way.

..... i was on my own when i had the trannie with the snapped cable and the
boss who wouldent buy a new un, so i used a wedge of wood on a string to get
the thing going, string was threaded through the bulkhead in to the cab,
i'd pop the bonnet, place the wedge to hold the cold start lever open and
shut the bonnet, get in and start it, leave it for a minute or so to settle
down, then tug the string to release the wedge and drive off,

better than the job i had when i was the YTS bod at that firm a few years
before, my job was to crawl under one of the wreckers with a lump of wood to
push the starter up when they got a call out, it had a broken bell housing
and the starter sagged out of engagment, in the cold another yts lad was
employed to empty a can of easy start down the air intake (which ment
climbing on to the cab roof to squirt it down the intake untill he
discovered he could spray it in the water drain in the filter housing)

Mike Harrison wrote:

Any hints for how to get it going - is there an easy way to prime the pump etc.? Is it possible that
the fuel shutoff valve has stuck?


More likely to be waxing or icing in the fuel.

Wait for warmer weather?

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:59:09 -0000, "gazz" wrote:


"Mike Harrison" wrote in message
.. .
I have a diesel transit (2.5L K reg) that hasn't been run for a year or so,
but was formerly a very
quick starter, even when cold - have been through a few
charge/try-to-start cycles, (maybe a total
of a couple of mins cranking in 10 sec bursts) with no signs of life -
I'm guessing fuel may have
run back & isn't getting through - ISTR something similar a while ago when
it wasn't run for a
while.

Any hints for how to get it going - is there an easy way to prime the pump
etc.? Is it possible that
the fuel shutoff valve has stuck?


slacken off an injector pipe union, then get someone to crank it over and
see if you get any fuel out the cracked open union, that'll tell you if it's
a fuel or heat problem.

There does appear to be fuel arriving.

if you get fuel at the injectors and still no start, then check the cold
start cable hasnt snapped, there will be a shirt bowden type cable going
from the pump to a large metal cylinder on the engine, this has a wax stat
in it and pulls on the cold start lever when it's cold, releasing it as the
engine warms up.


Can't see any sign of a bowden cable to the pump other then the throttle (also links to the air
intake).

BTW does anyone know how these things work without glowplugs?

There are some things near each injector linked by a pipe that tees off a pipe that goes to the fuel
filter.
There is also an electrical connection to the bottom of the fuel filter

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 15:46:42 +0000, Bruce wrote:

More likely to be waxing or icing in the fuel.

These days diesel has anti waxing additives so that is no longer a
problem. I'm not sure if those additives are there all year though, so of
the tranny has "summer" diesel in it...

Wait for warmer weather?

Just light a small fire under the fuel tank and use a blow lamp on (metal)
fuel lines. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Mike Harrison
saying something like:

Any hints for how to get it going
http://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=9554

On 30 Dec, 12:59, Mike Harrison wrote:
I have a diesel transit (2.5L K reg) that hasn't been run for a year or so, but was formerly a very
quick starter, even when cold *- have been through a few charge/try-to-start cycles, (maybe a total

Any hints for how to get it going - is there an easy way to prime the pump etc.? Is it possible that
the fuel shutoff valve has stuck?

You should hear the cut off valve click when you turn the ignition
on.You can also feel it if you hold onto it while someone else turns
on the ignition.

"Mike Harrison" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:59:09 -0000, "gazz" wrote:

Can't see any sign of a bowden cable to the pump other then the throttle
(also links to the air
intake).

cold start could be actuated directly on that age trannie then, the wax stat
will be a largish lump of metal on the pump, there will be a small length of
cable that goes to the cold start lever *which advances the pump to allow
the fuel to be injected sooner to give more time to 'catch'... which is why
most diesels are noiseir on the first start of the day, tho trannies usually
have such badly set injection timing they knock like hell anyway.


BTW does anyone know how these things work without glowplugs?

Direct injection, no need for glow plugs, and no pre-combustion chambers to
put them anyway.
you can get a thermostarter on some larger TDI engiens, my iveco has one, a
combined glowplug and injector, squirts hot diesel in the inlet manifold in
sub zero temps to assist starting... works quite well too but only had it
come on when i was camping on the top of the swiss alps in october,

rest of the time the cold start advance does the job fine.

There are some things near each injector linked by a pipe that tees off a
pipe that goes to the fuel
filter.

leak off pipes, excess fuel from the injectors go up those pipes and back to
the fuel tank,

There is also an electrical connection to the bottom of the fuel filter

Most likely for the water in the fuel warning light, would be 2 or 3 wires,
and if the filter is a canister type it screws into the bottom of the filter
where the water train tap goes,

To be honnest, to get this engine started get a can of easy start (or 'start
ya *******' if your in australia
crank the engine over and squirt some up the air intake nozzle, once she
fires on the easy start stop spraying, if engine dies spray a bit more
unitll she is running of diesel, that's assuming it is something like air in
the fuel line,

"gazz" wrote in message
...

"Mike Harrison" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:59:09 -0000, "gazz" wrote:

Can't see any sign of a bowden cable to the pump other then the
throttle
(also links to the air
intake).

cold start could be actuated directly on that age trannie then, the
wax stat
will be a largish lump of metal on the pump, there will be a small
length of
cable that goes to the cold start lever *which advances the pump to
allow
the fuel to be injected sooner to give more time to 'catch'... which
is why
most diesels are noiseir on the first start of the day, tho trannies
usually
have such badly set injection timing they knock like hell anyway.


BTW does anyone know how these things work without glowplugs?

Direct injection, no need for glow plugs, and no pre-combustion
chambers to
put them anyway.
you can get a thermostarter on some larger TDI engiens, my iveco has
one, a
combined glowplug and injector, squirts hot diesel in the inlet
manifold in
sub zero temps to assist starting... works quite well too but only
had it
come on when i was camping on the top of the swiss alps in october,

rest of the time the cold start advance does the job fine.

There are some things near each injector linked by a pipe that
tees off a
pipe that goes to the fuel
filter.

leak off pipes, excess fuel from the injectors go up those pipes and
back to
the fuel tank,

There is also an electrical connection to the bottom of the fuel
filter

Most likely for the water in the fuel warning light, would be 2 or 3
wires,
and if the filter is a canister type it screws into the bottom of
the filter
where the water train tap goes,

To be honnest, to get this engine started get a can of easy start
(or 'start
ya *******' if your in australia
crank the engine over and squirt some up the air intake nozzle, once
she
fires on the easy start stop spraying, if engine dies spray a bit
more
unitll she is running of diesel, that's assuming it is something
like air in
the fuel line,


Be wary of Easystart - the land on the piston above the top ring can
be broken by the excess pressure, which leads to 'Easystart
addiction'. The now reduced compression means engine will only start
with Easystart. It's ok in VERY small quantities.

AWEM

On Dec 30, 11:54 pm, "gazz" wrote:
tho trannies usually
have such badly set injection timing they knock like hell anyway.

Err, EVERY diesel engine knocks - at a rate of 4000 times a minutes.
"Knock" in a spark ignition engine (petrol, LPG), occurs when the
mixture is ignited by compression. Diesel engines are compression
ignition engines, and are *supposed* to ignite like that.

Martin Bonner wrote:

On Dec 30, 11:54 pm, "gazz" wrote:
tho trannies usually
have such badly set injection timing they knock like hell anyway.

Err, EVERY diesel engine knocks - at a rate of 4000 times a minutes.
"Knock" in a spark ignition engine (petrol, LPG), occurs when the
mixture is ignited by compression. Diesel engines are compression
ignition engines, and are *supposed* to ignite like that.


Also, Transits of the vintage we are discussing have the 2.5l direct
injection engine which is particularly noisy.

The knock has nothing to do with injection timing.

"Andrew Mawson" wrote in message
...


Be wary of Easystart - the land on the piston above the top ring can
be broken by the excess pressure, which leads to 'Easystart
addiction'. The now reduced compression means engine will only start
with Easystart. It's ok in VERY small quantities.


I'm not saying you're wrong but ether has been used in the starting of
diesels for decades. What authoritative evidence is there of this type of
damage? If the top part of the piston breaks away you'll have a flapping
ring, from my experience it won't be long before you get repeated ring
breakage and subsequent valve bending!

"Fred" wrote:
"Andrew Mawson" wrote in message
...
Be wary of Easystart - the land on the piston above the top ring can
be broken by the excess pressure, which leads to 'Easystart
addiction'. The now reduced compression means engine will only start
with Easystart. It's ok in VERY small quantities.


I'm not saying you're wrong but ether has been used in the starting of
diesels for decades. What authoritative evidence is there of this type of
damage?


None. It's an old wives' tale.

Diesel engines that start only reluctantly usually need some form of
mechanical attention. Using EasyStart prolongs the time until they
finally get that attention.

During that intervening period, they will only start with EasyStart,
giving rise to the (erroneous) beliefs that they are either "addicted
to EasyStart" or that EasyStart has done some permanent damage.

Neither is true; the engine just needs some proper maintenance, and
until it gets it, using EasyStart is the only way it will start.

Bruce wrote:
"Fred" wrote:
"Andrew Mawson" wrote in message
...
Be wary of Easystart - the land on the piston above the top ring can
be broken by the excess pressure, which leads to 'Easystart
addiction'. The now reduced compression means engine will only start
with Easystart. It's ok in VERY small quantities.

I'm not saying you're wrong but ether has been used in the starting of
diesels for decades. What authoritative evidence is there of this type of
damage?


None. It's an old wives' tale.

Diesel engines that start only reluctantly usually need some form of
mechanical attention. Using EasyStart prolongs the time until they
finally get that attention.

During that intervening period, they will only start with EasyStart,
giving rise to the (erroneous) beliefs that they are either "addicted
to EasyStart" or that EasyStart has done some permanent damage.

Neither is true; the engine just needs some proper maintenance, and
until it gets it, using EasyStart is the only way it will start.

Model aircraft diesels require ether to run at all.

Many are still running well after 50 years or more.

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
"Fred" wrote:
"Andrew Mawson" wrote in message
.. .
Be wary of Easystart - the land on the piston above the top ring can
be broken by the excess pressure, which leads to 'Easystart
addiction'. The now reduced compression means engine will only start
with Easystart. It's ok in VERY small quantities.


I'm not saying you're wrong but ether has been used in the starting of
diesels for decades. What authoritative evidence is there of this type of
damage?


None. It's an old wives' tale.

Diesel engines that start only reluctantly usually need some form of
mechanical attention. Using EasyStart prolongs the time until they
finally get that attention.

During that intervening period, they will only start with EasyStart,
giving rise to the (erroneous) beliefs that they are either "addicted
to EasyStart" or that EasyStart has done some permanent damage.

Neither is true; the engine just needs some proper maintenance, and
until it gets it, using EasyStart is the only way it will start.


Thanks for that. I was curious since Easystart can also be used to aid the
starting of petrol engines, hence may not be ideal for a diesel engine in
terms of rate of combustion and hence stress engine components.

The 2.5 is unusual in that it doesn't have any glow plugs. Also the
standard battery is hardly man enough to churn the engine at a good speed
such that in the last 2 years of my van's life it needed Easystart on cold
mornings. You say it implies maintenance but there isn't a schedule for
maintaining injectors or the pump. The van was maintained in every other
respect and had 2 recon injectors over it's life which didn't make any
difference. (Apparently they were dribbling!) In common with Transits
there was a fair level of blow by but that didn't seem to deteriorate over
it's life. So the problem of starting was not entirely obvious.

"Fred" wrote:
"Bruce" wrote in message
.. .
"Fred" wrote:
I'm not saying you're wrong but ether has been used in the starting of
diesels for decades. What authoritative evidence is there of this type of
damage?

None. It's an old wives' tale.

Diesel engines that start only reluctantly usually need some form of
mechanical attention. Using EasyStart prolongs the time until they
finally get that attention.

During that intervening period, they will only start with EasyStart,
giving rise to the (erroneous) beliefs that they are either "addicted
to EasyStart" or that EasyStart has done some permanent damage.

Neither is true; the engine just needs some proper maintenance, and
until it gets it, using EasyStart is the only way it will start.


Thanks for that. I was curious since Easystart can also be used to aid the
starting of petrol engines, hence may not be ideal for a diesel engine in
terms of rate of combustion and hence stress engine components.


I would not give it a moment's thought. It makes initial combustion
from cold easier, that's all.


The 2.5 is unusual in that it doesn't have any glow plugs. Also the
standard battery is hardly man enough to churn the engine at a good speed
such that in the last 2 years of my van's life it needed Easystart on cold
mornings.


A bigger battery is a boon on a diesel. One of my cars has a 3 litre
six cylinder diesel engine and the glow plugs aren't working as they
should. Uprating the battery from 100 Ah to 120 Ah has helped make
starting more predictable.


You say it implies maintenance but there isn't a schedule for
maintaining injectors or the pump. The van was maintained in every other
respect and had 2 recon injectors over it's life which didn't make any
difference. (Apparently they were dribbling!)


I'm surprised there is no service schedule. On my car, the injectors
are tested for correct delivery volume and spray pattern and no
leakage, every 40,000 miles. Perhaps Ford only advise this in
response to a report of a problem, rather than as preventative
maintenance.

I have often heard it said that the Transit is designed for a short
but very hard working life. I considered buying one as a base for a
motorhome but was advised that the rustproofing is almost non-existent
because Transits are not designed to last more than 3-5 years and
250-300,000 miles. Mechanically, they are tough within their design
lifespan but can unreliable after that.

I chose a VW but I still have a lot of respect for the Transit.

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
"Fred" wrote:
"Bruce" wrote in message
. ..
"Fred" wrote:
I'm not saying you're wrong but ether has been used in the starting of
diesels for decades. What authoritative evidence is there of this type
of
damage?

None. It's an old wives' tale.

Diesel engines that start only reluctantly usually need some form of
mechanical attention. Using EasyStart prolongs the time until they
finally get that attention.

During that intervening period, they will only start with EasyStart,
giving rise to the (erroneous) beliefs that they are either "addicted
to EasyStart" or that EasyStart has done some permanent damage.

Neither is true; the engine just needs some proper maintenance, and
until it gets it, using EasyStart is the only way it will start.


Thanks for that. I was curious since Easystart can also be used to aid
the
starting of petrol engines, hence may not be ideal for a diesel engine in
terms of rate of combustion and hence stress engine components.


I would not give it a moment's thought. It makes initial combustion
from cold easier, that's all.


The 2.5 is unusual in that it doesn't have any glow plugs. Also the
standard battery is hardly man enough to churn the engine at a good speed
such that in the last 2 years of my van's life it needed Easystart on cold
mornings.


A bigger battery is a boon on a diesel. One of my cars has a 3 litre
six cylinder diesel engine and the glow plugs aren't working as they
should. Uprating the battery from 100 Ah to 120 Ah has helped make
starting more predictable.

The Transit I had had the old fashioned square terminals and a imited
battery tray, otherwise I would agree with you.



You say it implies maintenance but there isn't a schedule for
maintaining injectors or the pump. The van was maintained in every other
respect and had 2 recon injectors over it's life which didn't make any
difference. (Apparently they were dribbling!)


I'm surprised there is no service schedule. On my car, the injectors
are tested for correct delivery volume and spray pattern and no
leakage, every 40,000 miles. Perhaps Ford only advise this in
response to a report of a problem, rather than as preventative
maintenance.

I have often heard it said that the Transit is designed for a short
but very hard working life. I considered buying one as a base for a
motorhome but was advised that the rustproofing is almost non-existent
because Transits are not designed to last more than 3-5 years and
250-300,000 miles. Mechanically, they are tough within their design
lifespan but can unreliable after that.

I chose a VW but I still have a lot of respect for the Transit.

I agree - apart from the rust proofing! It's absolutely appalling! They
still last 8 years without any welding and apart from oil changes the engine
would just keep going. 300,000 miles isn't untypical for the 2.5 diesel and
being thrashed, though with a 4,000 rpm limit I suppose that shouldn't be
difficult!

I felt they were pleasant to drive - no power but the handling, steering and
brakes were second to none!

I guess the newer ones have addressed the power issue - well I hope so!!

Andrew Mawson wrote:

Be wary of Easystart - the land on the piston above the top ring can
be broken by the excess pressure, which leads to 'Easystart
addiction'. The now reduced compression means engine will only start
with Easystart. It's ok in VERY small quantities.

I agree with that, it's more to do with easystart having a high cetane
rating, it readily detonates and so used heavily can cause this damage.

The need for it tends to mean the engine needs overhauling but I'd still use
it sparingly as you say.

5 mins to charge my glass but elton john has driven me from the sitting
room.

AJH

Bruce wrote:
"Fred" wrote:
"Bruce" wrote in message
...
"Fred" wrote:
I'm not saying you're wrong but ether has been used in the starting of
diesels for decades. What authoritative evidence is there of this type of
damage?
None. It's an old wives' tale.

Diesel engines that start only reluctantly usually need some form of
mechanical attention. Using EasyStart prolongs the time until they
finally get that attention.

During that intervening period, they will only start with EasyStart,
giving rise to the (erroneous) beliefs that they are either "addicted
to EasyStart" or that EasyStart has done some permanent damage.

Neither is true; the engine just needs some proper maintenance, and
until it gets it, using EasyStart is the only way it will start.

Thanks for that. I was curious since Easystart can also be used to aid the
starting of petrol engines, hence may not be ideal for a diesel engine in
terms of rate of combustion and hence stress engine components.


I would not give it a moment's thought. It makes initial combustion
from cold easier, that's all.


The 2.5 is unusual in that it doesn't have any glow plugs. Also the
standard battery is hardly man enough to churn the engine at a good speed
such that in the last 2 years of my van's life it needed Easystart on cold
mornings.


A bigger battery is a boon on a diesel. One of my cars has a 3 litre
six cylinder diesel engine and the glow plugs aren't working as they
should. Uprating the battery from 100 Ah to 120 Ah has helped make
starting more predictable.


You say it implies maintenance but there isn't a schedule for
maintaining injectors or the pump. The van was maintained in every other
respect and had 2 recon injectors over it's life which didn't make any
difference. (Apparently they were dribbling!)


I'm surprised there is no service schedule. On my car, the injectors
are tested for correct delivery volume and spray pattern and no
leakage, every 40,000 miles. Perhaps Ford only advise this in
response to a report of a problem, rather than as preventative
maintenance.

I have often heard it said that the Transit is designed for a short
but very hard working life. I considered buying one as a base for a
motorhome but was advised that the rustproofing is almost non-existent
because Transits are not designed to last more than 3-5 years and
250-300,000 miles. Mechanically, they are tough within their design
lifespan but can unreliable after that.

I chose a VW but I still have a lot of respect for the Transit.

A mate replaced a 200k mile one that was jumping out of gear and rusted
through with a 120k one that doesn't and is only part rusted through.

In both case the diesels worked fine.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Bruce wrote:

Diesel engines that start only reluctantly usually need some form of
mechanical attention. Using EasyStart prolongs the time until they
finally get that attention.

Model aircraft diesels require ether to run at all.

Gotta love the Aussies

http://tinyurl.com/start-ya-*******

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 12:05:25 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Bruce wrote:

Diesel engines that start only reluctantly usually need some form of
mechanical attention. Using EasyStart prolongs the time until they
finally get that attention.

Model aircraft diesels require ether to run at all.

Gotta love the Aussies

http://tinyurl.com/start-ya-*******

Wonder if they'd bother with the asterisk if they sold this stuff Down Under....

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/22070/...ike-Sh-t-290ml

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember andrew
saying something like:

Andrew Mawson wrote:

Be wary of Easystart - the land on the piston above the top ring can
be broken by the excess pressure, which leads to 'Easystart
addiction'. The now reduced compression means engine will only start
with Easystart. It's ok in VERY small quantities.

I agree with that, it's more to do with easystart having a high cetane
rating, it readily detonates and so used heavily can cause this damage.

It's excessive use (as in, too much each application) that can cause the
problem. The detonation rattle from too much ether points up to it being
not a good thing to overdo it. Unfortunately, too many ****nuggets out
there don't read instructions or have much nous, so happily douse their
intakes with loads of it, leading to the bad rep of ether starting cans
and gave rise to the 'addicted' notion.

I avoid using it if possible, preferring the burning rag method, but
that's often difficult in today's engine bays, and if just enough ether
is used the engine will happily start without too much trauma.

wrote:
On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 07:15:46 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:
It's excessive use (as in, too much each application) that can cause
the problem. The detonation rattle from too much ether points up to
it being not a good thing to overdo it. Unfortunately, too many
****nuggets out there don't read instructions or have much nous, so
happily douse their intakes with loads of it, leading to the bad rep
of ether starting cans and gave rise to the 'addicted' notion.

I avoid using it if possible, preferring the burning rag method, but
that's often difficult in today's engine bays, and if just enough
ether is used the engine will happily start without too much trauma.

If a suitable electric supply is available a Hot air gun or powerful
Hairdryer can sometimes be used as a substitute for a burning rag.


There is a flame start attachment for 2.5D Transits in cold weather. Where
diesel is sprayed onto an incandescent wire. If I continued to run my old
vehicle it would be something I would consider finding more about and
purchasing if the cost was reasonable.