[The Medway Handyman]

Rod wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I subscribe to and run a few magic Yahoo Groups which I find far
better than web based forums or usenet groups like UK-DIY.

Let me qualify that by saying that the content and the crack around
here is first class, but its unmoderated.

I don't use groups where I have to visit a site to see whats going
on & then search through categories. The Screwfix forums are like
this & I just can't be arsed. PITA.

I like things delivered to my inbox like UK-DIY. The problem with
groups like this are that they are open to spammers & ******s who
only wish to attack others.

I don't mind a good row, but there are some twisted, sad people out
there. The Yahoo Groups I run are by & large used for sensible
discussions.
Any OTT flame wars I can stop easily by moderating the posts or
banning the members - although I've only had to do that once in 8+
years. The UK Magic usenet group was simply destroyed by one particular
idiot who just attacked every post raised. He wanted to join one of
my Yahoo Groups & I refused access. He eventually joined under
another name, but as soon as he started his crap I removed him.

I'd much prefer UK-DIY as a Yahoo Group personally, as long as it
had a strong but fair moderator running it.

Just my 2p's worth.



One of the worst things about some (all?) of the moderated groups is
the time delay. We sometimes see useful interactions with several
back-and-forth posts within a few minutes. That would almost certainly
disappear.


With the Yahoo groups I run (one for over 8 years), people are vetted before
they can join, but thats mainly because magic has to be kept 'secret'.
Methods are discussed etc, which we obviously don't want the general public
knowing about.

Generally posts aren't moderated. If I spot a personal attack I will post
to the thread telling the proponent to cease. If he doesn't I will moderate
his posts & not allow any such attacks. I rarely have to do so & have never
banned anyone.

I'd say they are as fast as UK-DIY.


As for Yahoo groups. I don't know why, but the two I use are dreadful
- only about half of the posts are in threads - even when logically
they are mostly responses to posts. I get every post sent to me - as
I am utterly sick of the difficulty of reading posts in a browser. I
only stick with them because of the interest I have in a very specific
subject. And they still get spam, some abuse, etc. (You have to join
up but I don't think there is a moderation process.)

I can get a either a daily digest of posts, individual posts or I can read
them on the web - which I hate as well. We get no spam at all. I've only
ever warned one guy for advertising non magic items.

We get the occassional hiccup with posts not appearing for a while, but
other than that, no problems.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

[John Rumm]

The Medway Handyman wrote:

I subscribe to and run a few magic Yahoo Groups which I find far better than
web based forums or usenet groups like UK-DIY.

Let me qualify that by saying that the content and the crack around here is
first class, but its unmoderated.

I don't use groups where I have to visit a site to see whats going on & then
search through categories. The Screwfix forums are like this & I just can't
be arsed. PITA.

I like things delivered to my inbox like UK-DIY. The problem with groups
like this are that they are open to spammers & ******s who only wish to
attack others.

This is a discussion that crops up every year or two in one form or
another (moderation, group splitting, alternative platform etc). There
never seems to be a perfect answer to the questions other than a general
feeling that what we have is a reasonable compromise.

I don't mind a good row, but there are some twisted, sad people out there.

They (we!) could take that as a compliment...

The Yahoo Groups I run are by & large used for sensible discussions. Any
OTT flame wars I can stop easily by moderating the posts or banning the
members - although I've only had to do that once in 8+ years.

To be fair, much of this can be done on usenet with a bit of filtering.
For thuderbird users even the simple expedient of hitting "k" to kill a
thread can be a great time saver. A few more subtle filters can make the
process even more rewarding. For example, by selecting
"View|Threads|Watched threads with unread" from the menu I can instantly
see all the conversations in which I have participated, that have any
unread messages in them[1]. Its this sort of speed and flexibility that
is hard to match on web based fora.

[1] I have filters set up to "watch" any thread I post to.

The UK Magic usenet group was simply destroyed by one particular idiot who
just attacked every post raised. He wanted to join one of my Yahoo Groups &
I refused access. He eventually joined under another name, but as soon as
he started his crap I removed him.

This is a slightly harder problem to deal with, in that it requires
discipline from the majority of readers to not respond / killfile the
abuser. Serious offenders can sometimes be dealt with by their ISP.
Generally we don't seem to suffer this here (although I appreciate that
different ISPs will filter different levels of spam)

I'd much prefer UK-DIY as a Yahoo Group personally, as long as it had a
strong but fair moderator running it.

Just my 2p's worth.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[Rod]

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Rod wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I subscribe to and run a few magic Yahoo Groups which I find far
better than web based forums or usenet groups like UK-DIY.

Let me qualify that by saying that the content and the crack around
here is first class, but its unmoderated.

I don't use groups where I have to visit a site to see whats going
on & then search through categories. The Screwfix forums are like
this & I just can't be arsed. PITA.

I like things delivered to my inbox like UK-DIY. The problem with
groups like this are that they are open to spammers & ******s who
only wish to attack others.

I don't mind a good row, but there are some twisted, sad people out
there. The Yahoo Groups I run are by & large used for sensible
discussions.
Any OTT flame wars I can stop easily by moderating the posts or
banning the members - although I've only had to do that once in 8+
years. The UK Magic usenet group was simply destroyed by one particular
idiot who just attacked every post raised. He wanted to join one of
my Yahoo Groups & I refused access. He eventually joined under
another name, but as soon as he started his crap I removed him.

I'd much prefer UK-DIY as a Yahoo Group personally, as long as it
had a strong but fair moderator running it.

Just my 2p's worth.



One of the worst things about some (all?) of the moderated groups is
the time delay. We sometimes see useful interactions with several
back-and-forth posts within a few minutes. That would almost certainly
disappear.


With the Yahoo groups I run (one for over 8 years), people are vetted before
they can join, but thats mainly because magic has to be kept 'secret'.
Methods are discussed etc, which we obviously don't want the general public
knowing about.

Generally posts aren't moderated. If I spot a personal attack I will post
to the thread telling the proponent to cease. If he doesn't I will moderate
his posts & not allow any such attacks. I rarely have to do so & have never
banned anyone.

I'd say they are as fast as UK-DIY.

As for Yahoo groups. I don't know why, but the two I use are dreadful
- only about half of the posts are in threads - even when logically
they are mostly responses to posts. I get every post sent to me - as
I am utterly sick of the difficulty of reading posts in a browser. I
only stick with them because of the interest I have in a very specific
subject. And they still get spam, some abuse, etc. (You have to join
up but I don't think there is a moderation process.)

I can get a either a daily digest of posts, individual posts or I can read
them on the web - which I hate as well. We get no spam at all. I've only
ever warned one guy for advertising non magic items.

We get the occassional hiccup with posts not appearing for a while, but
other than that, no problems.

I do agree that Yahoo groups do actually process and send out updates
quickly. But if pre-post moderated, that process does delay things, in
Yahoo or elsewhere.

The daily digest is a problem. I so often see a post, several replies,
and then replies that do not take into account the replies already made.
It is, of course, inherent to any mechanism like that - but in Usenet it
seems to be minimised. (Quite a number of years ago, news servers were
so slow, and propagation even slower, that the whole of Usenet tended to
be like that. But not, IME, now.)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

[Unbeliever[_2_]]

Steve Firth wrote:
Rod wrote:

u.l.m might whitelist - but I at least have not achieved that
status. So I suffer the delays to my posts - and to replies when
from other non-whitelisted people. :-(

Whereas I am whitelisted. There's something to ponder for the flamers
around here.

White listing doesn't mean a thing Steve. You can be taken off that list at
the drop-of-a-hat if you upset one of the moderators - so bragging about it
is a waste of time - and an over-inflated ego is your norm anyway!


Unbeliever

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Lobster
saying something like:

No one seems to find the d-i-y when they search for newsgroups.

Hardly surprising. What prize **** put the hyphens in when it was first
done?

As it happens, that would be me.

points finger

It was you!

Explanation accepted, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. It's a pity
that some things about usenet cannot be made retroactive, like renaming
a group without disrupting things.