Talking to my lunch time drinking companion, he mention that a fuse had
blown again and couldn't understand why.

It turns out that the house was built about 1958 and has only one fuse
for the sockets upstairs and downstairs. Was this common then and does
he have a ring or radial wiring?

There is a fuse for lights and another for the cooker.

Dave

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave wrote:

Talking to my lunch time drinking companion, he mention that a fuse
had blown again and couldn't understand why.

It turns out that the house was built about 1958 and has only one fuse
for the sockets upstairs and downstairs. Was this common then and does
he have a ring or radial wiring?

There is a fuse for lights and another for the cooker.

Dave

It will be a ring main - but only one for the whole house. Quite common for
that period - although many, if not most, properties built at that time will
have been upgraded and/or re-wired in the meantime.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave wrote:

Talking to my lunch time drinking companion, he mention that a fuse
had blown again and couldn't understand why.

It turns out that the house was built about 1958 and has only one fuse
for the sockets upstairs and downstairs. Was this common then and does
he have a ring or radial wiring?

There is a fuse for lights and another for the cooker.

Dave

It will be a ring main - but only one for the whole house. Quite common
for that period - although many, if not most, properties built at that
time will have been upgraded and/or re-wired in the meantime.

I only have one ring and this is an 80's house.
Its not a problem.
Even if I needed to heat the place there is so much insulation (now) a
couple of fan heaters is enough.

I sure as hell don't have enough appliances to draw 7.5 kw to overload the
ring.
There was a lack of sockets too, but they are easy to add.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
dennis@home wrote:

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave wrote:

Talking to my lunch time drinking companion, he mention that a fuse
had blown again and couldn't understand why.

It turns out that the house was built about 1958 and has only one
fuse for the sockets upstairs and downstairs. Was this common then
and does he have a ring or radial wiring?

There is a fuse for lights and another for the cooker.

Dave

It will be a ring main - but only one for the whole house. Quite
common for that period - although many, if not most, properties
built at that time will have been upgraded and/or re-wired in the
meantime.

I only have one ring and this is an 80's house.
Its not a problem.
Even if I needed to heat the place there is so much insulation (now) a
couple of fan heaters is enough.

I sure as hell don't have enough appliances to draw 7.5 kw to
overload the ring.
There was a lack of sockets too, but they are easy to add.


I'm sure that what you've got works perfectly ok. You can indeed have lots
of sockets, all drawing relatively low currents, without any problem.

However, it sounds as if the ring in the property mentioned in the OP is
overloaded - although there's not enough information to be sure.

AIUI, current wiring regs place a limit on the floor area which can be
served by a single ring - but a lot of properties obviously pre-date that
and, in most cases, the electrics continue to work ok.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
dennis@home wrote:

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave wrote:

Talking to my lunch time drinking companion, he mention that a fuse
had blown again and couldn't understand why.

It turns out that the house was built about 1958 and has only one
fuse for the sockets upstairs and downstairs. Was this common then
and does he have a ring or radial wiring?

There is a fuse for lights and another for the cooker.

Dave
It will be a ring main - but only one for the whole house. Quite
common for that period - although many, if not most, properties
built at that time will have been upgraded and/or re-wired in the
meantime.
I only have one ring and this is an 80's house.
Its not a problem.
Even if I needed to heat the place there is so much insulation (now) a
couple of fan heaters is enough.

I sure as hell don't have enough appliances to draw 7.5 kw to
overload the ring.
There was a lack of sockets too, but they are easy to add.


I'm sure that what you've got works perfectly ok. You can indeed have lots
of sockets, all drawing relatively low currents, without any problem.

However, it sounds as if the ring in the property mentioned in the OP is
overloaded - although there's not enough information to be sure.

Sorry, I forgot to add this info.

The usual things that run 27/7 like fridge and freezer, but the fuse has
popped twice while a 3 KW kettle, a medium sized fan heater running and
the microwave was switch on to warm some milk. I regarded this as quite
a light load for a ring.

Dave

Dave wrote :
The usual things that run 27/7 like fridge and freezer, but the fuse has
popped twice while a 3 KW kettle,
13A ++

a medium sized fan heater running and the
10A

microwave was switch on to warm some milk. I regarded this as quite a light
load for a ring.
6 -10A

So that's a total load of 13 + 10 + 6 = 29amp as a minimum or perhaps
as high as 36amps on a 30amp fuse wire(?)

Not really a light load after all then for a single ring.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:26:05 +0000, Dave
wrote:

Sorry, I forgot to add this info.

The usual things that run 27/7 like fridge and freezer,

The actual consumption of a fridge/freezer isn't all that much -
although it's switched on 24/7, in a stable state its duty cycle is
probably only some 25% (at a guess) (apart from negligible things like
LEDs) and it's not handling large heating-type loads.

Wouldn't it be a nice idea if a fridge/freezer was able to deliver
energy back into the Grid? :-)

--
Frank Erskine

Roger Mills wrote:

Dave wrote:

It turns out that the house was built about 1958 and has only one fuse
for the sockets upstairs and downstairs.

Quite common for that period

And even later ... My house built in 1972/3 only had one ring circuit
for the whole house and one lighting circuit (also radial for cooker,
and radial which would have been to immersion)

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:35:50 +0000, Dave
wrote:

Talking to my lunch time drinking companion, he mention that a fuse had
blown again and couldn't understand why.

It turns out that the house was built about 1958 and has only one fuse
for the sockets upstairs and downstairs. Was this common then and does
he have a ring or radial wiring?

A ring unless it was done by the Cisco Kid and Pancho.
But if done in 1958 it may have been done in VIR. If that is so the
stuff is probably rotting by now

There is a fuse for lights and another for the cooker.


Sounds right for that era.

Alang wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:35:50 +0000, Dave
wrote:

Talking to my lunch time drinking companion, he mention that a fuse had
blown again and couldn't understand why.

It turns out that the house was built about 1958 and has only one fuse
for the sockets upstairs and downstairs. Was this common then and does
he have a ring or radial wiring?

A ring unless it was done by the Cisco Kid and Pancho.
But if done in 1958 it may have been done in VIR. If that is so the
stuff is probably rotting by now
There is a fuse for lights and another for the cooker.


Sounds right for that era.

Sounds like I'd better urge him to get a rewire done.

Thanks

Dave

But if done in 1958 it may have been done in VIR. If that is so the
stuff is probably rotting by now

is VIR that old style rubbery wire?


[g]

george (dicegeorge) explained on 17/12/2008 :
But if done in 1958 it may have been done in VIR. If that is so the
stuff is probably rotting by now

is VIR that old style rubbery wire?

Its a rubbery coating for insulation, with a waxed cotton woven over
the top for mechanical protection.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
george (dicegeorge) explained on 17/12/2008 :
But if done in 1958 it may have been done in VIR. If that is so the
stuff is probably rotting by now

is VIR that old style rubbery wire?

Its a rubbery coating for insulation, with a waxed cotton woven over the
top for mechanical protection.

That sounds more like PBJ than VIR

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ins_Cables#PBJ


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

george (dicegeorge) wrote:

But if done in 1958 it may have been done in VIR. If that is so the
stuff is probably rotting by now

is VIR that old style rubbery wire?

Yup,

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ins_Cables#VIR


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 17 Dec, 21:44, John Rumm wrote:
george (dicegeorge) wrote:

But if done in 1958 it may have been done in VIR. If that is so the
stuff is probably rotting by now

is VIR that old style rubbery wire?

Yup,

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ins_Cables#VIR

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| * * * * *Internode Ltd - *http://www.internode.co.uk* * * * * *|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| * * * *John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk * * * * * * *|
\================================================= ================/

Remember it well - my father did a seriously major refurbishment of a
property in the mid '50's and being a technical architect was aware of
the introduction of ring mains. Two things stick out in memory -
being the teenage slave who pulled and pushed fishwires down conduits,
and then the local electrical guy doing a bit of moon lighting who
probably hadn't any experience on ring mains and got neutral and line
crossed over on one - was the first time I saw a reasonably big
electrical bang!

That house had 3 phase so one phase per floor, but I would like to
think that like this situation a rewire has been done.

Rob

In article ,
george (dicegeorge) wrote:
But if done in 1958 it may have been done in VIR. If that is so the
stuff is probably rotting by now

is VIR that old style rubbery wire?

Vulcanised Indian Rubber

--
*If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:28:03 +0000, "george (dicegeorge)"
wrote:


But if done in 1958 it may have been done in VIR. If that is so the
stuff is probably rotting by now

is VIR that old style rubbery wire?



Yes. Still some about and bloody dangerous now

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:18:53 +0000, Dave
wrote:

Alang wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:35:50 +0000, Dave
wrote:

Talking to my lunch time drinking companion, he mention that a fuse had
blown again and couldn't understand why.

It turns out that the house was built about 1958 and has only one fuse
for the sockets upstairs and downstairs. Was this common then and does
he have a ring or radial wiring?

A ring unless it was done by the Cisco Kid and Pancho.
But if done in 1958 it may have been done in VIR. If that is so the
stuff is probably rotting by now
There is a fuse for lights and another for the cooker.


Sounds right for that era.

Sounds like I'd better urge him to get a rewire done.


at least get the system tested

Alang wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:18:53 +0000, Dave
wrote:

Alang wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:35:50 +0000, Dave
wrote:

Talking to my lunch time drinking companion, he mention that a fuse had
blown again and couldn't understand why.

It turns out that the house was built about 1958 and has only one fuse
for the sockets upstairs and downstairs. Was this common then and does
he have a ring or radial wiring?
A ring unless it was done by the Cisco Kid and Pancho.
But if done in 1958 it may have been done in VIR. If that is so the
stuff is probably rotting by now
There is a fuse for lights and another for the cooker.

Sounds right for that era.
Sounds like I'd better urge him to get a rewire done.


at least get the system tested

I think he is getting some one in to look at it. He was the person that
checked the wiring after his extension after it was built, so he must
have some electrical knowledge.

Dave

Alang wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:18:53 +0000, Dave
wrote:

Alang wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:35:50 +0000, Dave
wrote:

Talking to my lunch time drinking companion, he mention that a fuse had
blown again and couldn't understand why.

It turns out that the house was built about 1958 and has only one fuse
for the sockets upstairs and downstairs. Was this common then and does
he have a ring or radial wiring?

A ring unless it was done by the Cisco Kid and Pancho.
But if done in 1958 it may have been done in VIR. If that is so the
stuff is probably rotting by now
There is a fuse for lights and another for the cooker.


Sounds right for that era.

Sounds like I'd better urge him to get a rewire done.


at least get the system tested

Pointles in as much as any 1950s install will fail on many points
today. Pointful if it motivates him to rewire. Would definitely
suggest bringing the report here to ukdiy before agreeing to anything
- those PIRs are notorious for scare tactics, and we could explain
what each point means in the real world.


NT

Dave wrote:

Talking to my lunch time drinking companion, he mention that a fuse had
blown again and couldn't understand why.

Rewireable or cartridge? If the former has he rewired it with the right
wire?

It turns out that the house was built about 1958 and has only one fuse
for the sockets upstairs and downstairs. Was this common then and does
he have a ring or radial wiring?

Once circuit was indeed common. At that age it may or may not have a
ring, you can't tell without looking[1]. It probably has VIR cable,
although it could be very early PVC (possibly with no earth (separate
multi-strand uninsulated ones being common), or if it has and earth it
will typically be undersized for adequate protection of any spurs.

[1] At my previous place (built 1956) I rewired the next door neighbours
property for them (other half of the semi), and that still had its
original wiring (and about 8 sockets in the whole house!). That was all
VIR, separate earth, and was wired as a radial with a 30A rewireable
fuse for protection)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Dec 18, 2:38 am, John Rumm wrote:
[1] At my previous place (built 1956) I rewired the next door neighbours
property for them (other half of the semi), and that still had its
original wiring (and about 8 sockets in the whole house!). That was all
VIR, separate earth, and was wired as a radial with a 30A rewireable
fuse for protection)

Was that out of the goodness of your heart, or to prevent their
electrics burning your house down? :-)

Martin Bonner wrote:
On Dec 18, 2:38 am, John Rumm wrote:
[1] At my previous place (built 1956) I rewired the next door neighbours
property for them (other half of the semi), and that still had its
original wiring (and about 8 sockets in the whole house!). That was all
VIR, separate earth, and was wired as a radial with a 30A rewireable
fuse for protection)

Was that out of the goodness of your heart, or to prevent their
electrics burning your house down? :-)

LOL. To be fair, there was an element of relief once it was done!

The actual cable was in fact in pretty good condition given its age -
most of what I saw was still reasonably flexible and rubbery (apart from
near some of the terminations). The main problem was the general lack of
capacity, and all the extra bits that had been hacked onto it over the
years - the number of 13A flexes that had been poked into the old Mem CU
and hooked up to whichever ceramic fuse was nearest gave some cause for
concern!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Dave wrote:

Talking to my lunch time drinking companion, he mention that a fuse
had blown again and couldn't understand why.

Rewireable or cartridge? If the former has he rewired it with the right
wire?

Rewireable and he mentioned a blue fuse holder and 15 Amp wire, which
all fits together.

It turns out that the house was built about 1958 and has only one fuse
for the sockets upstairs and downstairs. Was this common then and does
he have a ring or radial wiring?

Once circuit was indeed common. At that age it may or may not have a
ring, you can't tell without looking[1]. It probably has VIR cable,
although it could be very early PVC (possibly with no earth (separate
multi-strand uninsulated ones being common), or if it has and earth it
will typically be undersized for adequate protection of any spurs.

[1] At my previous place (built 1956) I rewired the next door neighbours
property for them (other half of the semi), and that still had its
original wiring (and about 8 sockets in the whole house!). That was all
VIR, separate earth, and was wired as a radial with a 30A rewireable
fuse for protection)


Dave

Dave wrote:

Rewireable or cartridge? If the former has he rewired it with the
right wire?

Rewireable and he mentioned a blue fuse holder and 15 Amp wire, which
all fits together.

Ah, well blue would tally with 15A, however that explains why it blew so
easily.

His 3kW kettlw, fan heater fridge etc could easily add up to a 30A total
load which would not be a problem on a typical power circuit protected
with a 30A fuse (RED dots). However on a 15A rewireable fuse, a 30A load
will probably cause it to blow in under 4 mins.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Dave wrote:

Talking to my lunch time drinking companion, he mention that a fuse had
blown again and couldn't understand why.

It turns out that the house was built about 1958 and has only one fuse
for the sockets upstairs and downstairs. Was this common then and does
he have a ring or radial wiring?

There is a fuse for lights and another for the cooker.

Dave


A good approach to inadequate capacity wiring was to mark the curernt
consumption of the appliance in amps on each plug top. Then for the
end user its easy not to plug too much load in at once.


NT

wrote:
Dave wrote:

Talking to my lunch time drinking companion, he mention that a fuse had
blown again and couldn't understand why.

It turns out that the house was built about 1958 and has only one fuse
for the sockets upstairs and downstairs. Was this common then and does
he have a ring or radial wiring?

There is a fuse for lights and another for the cooker.

Dave


A good approach to inadequate capacity wiring was to mark the curernt
consumption of the appliance in amps on each plug top. Then for the
end user its easy not to plug too much load in at once.


NT

Green acres is the place to be.
Farm living is the life for me.
Land spreading out, so far and wide.
Keep Manhattan, just give me that countryside.

For anyone too young to understand (at all), have a shufty here (though
it does not explain my comment):

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058808/

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Jim Michaels wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 08:49:15 +0000, Rod
wrote:

wrote:
Dave wrote:

Talking to my lunch time drinking companion, he mention that a fuse had
blown again and couldn't understand why.

It turns out that the house was built about 1958 and has only one fuse
for the sockets upstairs and downstairs. Was this common then and does
he have a ring or radial wiring?

There is a fuse for lights and another for the cooker.

Dave

A good approach to inadequate capacity wiring was to mark the curernt
consumption of the appliance in amps on each plug top. Then for the
end user its easy not to plug too much load in at once.


NT
Green acres is the place to be.
Farm living is the life for me.
Land spreading out, so far and wide.
Keep Manhattan, just give me that countryside.

For anyone too young to understand (at all), have a shufty here (though
it does not explain my comment):

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058808/



The episode
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0592812/

The magic number was 7

Remove SPAMX from email address

Thank god - I thought I was mad. :-)

Funny how one single episode from all that time ago lodged in my brain -
and was there the moment I read NT's post. (I had searched IMDB but must
have not come up with the magic terms.)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

In article
,
wrote:
A good approach to inadequate capacity wiring was to mark the curernt
consumption of the appliance in amps on each plug top. Then for the
end user its easy not to plug too much load in at once.

Most end users wouldn't know what it is or how to calculate it.

--
*It doesn't take a genius to spot a goat in a flock of sheep *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Huge wrote:
On 2008-12-19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
wrote:
A good approach to inadequate capacity wiring was to mark the curernt
consumption of the appliance in amps on each plug top. Then for the
end user its easy not to plug too much load in at once.
Most end users wouldn't know what it is or how to calculate it.

Or the significance of it, even were it marked.


teenagers cant even understand that leaving doors open cools their bedroom
when the heating is from electric fires (not central heating)


aaarrgh

Huge wrote:
On 2008-12-19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
wrote:
A good approach to inadequate capacity wiring was to mark the curernt
consumption of the appliance in amps on each plug top. Then for the
end user its easy not to plug too much load in at once.

Most end users wouldn't know what it is or how to calculate it.

Or the significance of it, even were it marked.

I guess I took it as obvious that when marking the plugs you'd tell
them

Just be thankful your end users have fuses popping rather than smoke
coming out.


NT