"Tim S" wrote in message
...


GET are inexpensive (plastic version) but definitely not "cheap"[1] and
have
plastic plugs. The only problem is I seem to destroy the plugs removing
them, so it's a bit of a waste of time...

Is that before you fit them? you push them out from the back using the
screw.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
A prime example of gutter press IMHO. The first photo with the actor
set up for the photo rather than doing the job using a powered
screwdriver!

I have used an impact driver to fit light fittings before now, its
not a problem with the Ryobi one+.

So you don't bother lining up the screw slots. Figures.

You leave screws that show!!?

You've got no option on most electrical fittings. And if you look at the
offending pic he's attaching the fitting to a backing plate etc so the
screw will very likely show.

There are a few points about this..

nobody actually looks at the screws
it is easy to line them up with an electric driver
you really should tighten them to the correct torque and not until they look
nice
you don't get that tingly feeling when you put the screw through the
red/brown wire with a power driver

wrote in message ...
On 16 Dec,
"Michael Chare" wrote:

In days gone by you used to have to fit a plug to every electrical
appliance that you bought, so many people could do this.

Many people could attach a plug to a flex, not so many correctly.

When I was working at Marconi about 20 years ago and engineer and myself had
to wire some plugs..
all was fine until someone wanted to move a computer and the mains tripped..
I tracked it down to a plug..
the "engineer" had stripped 1.5" of insulation and shoved the ends in the
terminals.


I cut all the plugs off the stuff he had done and gave him one on each
anniversary.

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
You've got no option on most electrical fittings. And if you look at the
offending pic he's attaching the fitting to a backing plate etc so the
screw will very likely show.

There are a few points about this..

nobody actually looks at the screws

I do.

it is easy to line them up with an electric driver

No it's not. It's impossible.

you really should tighten them to the correct torque and not until they
look nice

So
a) how do you know what the correct torque is
and
b) how does an electric screwdriver achieve this?

you don't get that tingly feeling when you put the screw through the
red/brown wire with a power driver

Perhaps you should stick to crochet?

--
*Always drink upstream from the herd *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
tim..... wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
M wrote:
Following up to Don

It looks as if there's going to be a boom time for the
'Professional Handymen' then.

25% cant change a fuse,jeez. Bloke next door is just like that, gets
SWMBOs dad over.

Lovely Jubbly :-)

If I thought that I'd could make a living out of doing numpty jobs for
people I'd join you

But I'm sure that I'd get more than my fair share of clearing out
gutters and digging out trees.

Plenty of work about matey, even in a cwedit cwunch. You would be amazed.

As my career as a (software) engineer appears to have hit the buffers, I
could be competiting with you soon :-)

tim

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
You've got no option on most electrical fittings. And if you look at
the
offending pic he's attaching the fitting to a backing plate etc so the
screw will very likely show.

There are a few points about this..

nobody actually looks at the screws

I do.


You would not like the screws on the new build I have just done then. The
snagging list said "electrical screws not horizontal". My reply was "of
course they are not horizontal, the back boxes are fastened to your walls"

Adam

dennis@home coughed up some electrons that declared:



"Tim S" wrote in message
...


GET are inexpensive (plastic version) but definitely not "cheap"[1] and
have
plastic plugs. The only problem is I seem to destroy the plugs removing
them, so it's a bit of a waste of time...

Is that before you fit them? you push them out from the back using the
screw.

No, after fitting, supposing you want to lift the plate later, say for
inspection (as part of inspection and testing).

Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:


b) how does an electric screwdriver achieve this?

Mine's got a torque limiter (one of the reasons I got it). Bit course though
and has no markings other than a rather arbitary 1-10 (ie no Nm or ft-lb).

Cheers

Tim

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:


b) how does an electric screwdriver achieve this?

Mine's got a torque limiter (one of the reasons I got it). Bit course
though
and has no markings other than a rather arbitary 1-10 (ie no Nm or ft-lb).

I bet it has a brake too, so you can do the last 1/4 turn by hand if you
need to line up the slots.

wrote:
Even after the 13 amp
ring was introduced, there were at least 4 types of non compatible plugs
for that - let alone the older 2, 5 and 15amp in both two and three pins.

I wish I had kept for interest sake a plugtop I found some years ago.

Istr that it had two round pins about the same size as the old 15amp
and an a rectangular earth pin as fitted to 13 amp plugs, or possibly
it was 2 rectangular and one round.

The wonderful 'Fitall' plug could probably have faked them both.


--
Ian White

dennis@home coughed up some electrons that declared:



"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:


b) how does an electric screwdriver achieve this?

Mine's got a torque limiter (one of the reasons I got it). Bit course
though
and has no markings other than a rather arbitary 1-10 (ie no Nm or
ft-lb).

I bet it has a brake too, so you can do the last 1/4 turn by hand if you
need to line up the slots.

Oddly enough, no. It was made for builders, not Michelangelo.

;-

wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:15:28 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

I

Most other countries were used to buying equipment with plugs fitted
for many years before it became compulsory here - but then they
probably didn't have the vast range of different ones we did. Even
after the 13 amp ring was introduced, there were at least 4 types of
non compatible plugs for that - let alone the older 2, 5 and 15amp
in both two and three pins.

I wish I had kept for interest sake a plugtop I found some years ago.

Istr that it had two round pins about the same size as the old 15amp
and an a rectangular earth pin as fitted to 13 amp plugs, or possibly
it was 2 rectangular and one round. Was a British Manufacturer and in
white plastic rather than prewar style brown Bakelite.

If it had a central hollow round pin with two flat pins offset either side
then I think that was the old Wylex mains plug.

Can't find a picture anywhere at the moment. Wiki has heaps of others but
not that one. :-(

Tim

G.Harman

"Tim S" wrote in message
...


I bet it has a brake too, so you can do the last 1/4 turn by hand if you
need to line up the slots.

Oddly enough, no. It was made for builders, not Michelangelo.

Not very safe then?

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:55:14 -0000, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:15:28 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

I

Most other countries were used to buying equipment with plugs fitted
for many years before it became compulsory here - but then they
probably didn't have the vast range of different ones we did. Even
after the 13 amp ring was introduced, there were at least 4 types of
non compatible plugs for that - let alone the older 2, 5 and 15amp
in both two and three pins.
I wish I had kept for interest sake a plugtop I found some years ago.

Istr that it had two round pins about the same size as the old 15amp
and an a rectangular earth pin as fitted to 13 amp plugs, or possibly
it was 2 rectangular and one round. Was a British Manufacturer and in
white plastic rather than prewar style brown Bakelite.
If it had a central hollow round pin with two flat pins offset either side
then I think that was the old Wylex mains plug.

I think they were popular in the '50s for council house installations.
I've no idea what the fuse ratings were.
I've only ever seen them in brown or black (dark!) colours. I'm pretty
certain that Woolies used to stock them on their wonderful electrical
counters... as well as my favourites, the MES batten lampholders and
tiny almost dolls-house size switches.

Wasn't there another 3-pin plug in which the live pin was a cartridge
fuse which screwed into the plug?

I can picture that, but I can't remember its name. Mind you, I'm only
62, quite a young sprog to some :-)

Somehow I've got in my mind a cartridge fuse in the earth pin...
Arghhh!

Never come across one of them, but where can I buy some of those bayonet
plugs that fitted a light socket. I would like one or two that split
into 2 outlets, one with an on off switch. Maybe Woolworths might find
some in their closing down sale :-)


Dave

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:23:20 +0000, Ian White
wrote:

wrote:
Even after the 13 amp
ring was introduced, there were at least 4 types of non compatible plugs
for that - let alone the older 2, 5 and 15amp in both two and three pins.

I wish I had kept for interest sake a plugtop I found some years ago.

Istr that it had two round pins about the same size as the old 15amp
and an a rectangular earth pin as fitted to 13 amp plugs, or possibly
it was 2 rectangular and one round.

The wonderful 'Fitall' plug could probably have faked them both.

I had a couple of Fitall plugs, and they didn't 'fit all'! They
certainly wouldn't have fitted a Wylex socket, or any of the foreign
designs.
They were a bit of a swine to assemble, with swivelling masks to let
appropriate pins pop out, and you had to almost dismantle the whole
plug to change the fuse.
When I worked for the GPO, they acknowledged the use of such plugs,
but insisted that they weren't to be used with loads of 3A, also the
earth pin hadn't to be relied upon.

--
Frank Erskine

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:55:14 -0000, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:15:28 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

I

Most other countries were used to buying equipment with plugs fitted
for many years before it became compulsory here - but then they
probably didn't have the vast range of different ones we did. Even
after the 13 amp ring was introduced, there were at least 4 types of
non compatible plugs for that - let alone the older 2, 5 and 15amp
in both two and three pins.

I wish I had kept for interest sake a plugtop I found some years ago.

Istr that it had two round pins about the same size as the old 15amp
and an a rectangular earth pin as fitted to 13 amp plugs, or possibly
it was 2 rectangular and one round. Was a British Manufacturer and in
white plastic rather than prewar style brown Bakelite.

If it had a central hollow round pin with two flat pins offset either side
then I think that was the old Wylex mains plug.

I think they were popular in the '50s for council house installations.
I've no idea what the fuse ratings were.
I've only ever seen them in brown or black (dark!) colours. I'm pretty
certain that Woolies used to stock them on their wonderful electrical
counters... as well as my favourites, the MES batten lampholders and
tiny almost dolls-house size switches.

Wasn't there another 3-pin plug in which the live pin was a cartridge
fuse which screwed into the plug?

Somehow I've got in my mind a cartridge fuse in the earth pin...
Arghhh!

--
Frank Erskine

In article ,
Tim S wrote:
b) how does an electric screwdriver achieve this?

Mine's got a torque limiter (one of the reasons I got it). Bit course
though and has no markings other than a rather arbitary 1-10 (ie no Nm
or ft-lb).

Indeed - but if you were concerned about accurate torque, you'd use a
pukka torque screwdriver. I have one for auto gearbox repairs. Manual, of
course - and pretty expensive. I'm sure you can get specialised production
electric tools that do the job - but I'd doubt many would have them at
home.

--
*All generalizations are false.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Frank Erskine wrote:
Wasn't there another 3-pin plug in which the live pin was a cartridge
fuse which screwed into the plug?

Yup. D&S. The BBC used to fit them to things fed off tech supplies. So you
couldn't plug a hoover in. ;-)

Nasty things - sometimes you'd pull the plug out and the fuse stayed in
the socket - live and poking out. The BBC sockets were unswitched...
The natural reaction is to retrieve the fuse. But only the first time it
happened.

--
*I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

tim..... wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
tim..... wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
M wrote:
Following up to Don

It looks as if there's going to be a boom time for the
'Professional Handymen' then.

25% cant change a fuse,jeez. Bloke next door is just like that,
gets SWMBOs dad over.

Lovely Jubbly :-)

If I thought that I'd could make a living out of doing numpty jobs
for people I'd join you

But I'm sure that I'd get more than my fair share of clearing out
gutters and digging out trees.

Plenty of work about matey, even in a cwedit cwunch. You would be
amazed.

As my career as a (software) engineer appears to have hit the
buffers, I could be competiting with you soon :-)

Tim. There is so much potential I wouldn't care if another half dozen
started up in the same town as me. They wouldn't have the marketing savvy.

If you want any advice on starting up feel free to e-mail me direct. I'd be
happy to give you any info & help you want.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
wrote:
IIRC they were soldered to allow easy connection for testing - I've
also seen brass sleeves fitted. But both should be cut off before
fitting the plug - the wires were usually too long anyway.


Umm - why should brass sleeves be removed? My thought was that they
were crimped on, rather than soldered, so would be ok for fitting into
(brass) screw down terminals. If they are not advised (and if so, I'd
like to _understand_ the reason why) then I have some plugs to rewire.

They're simply adding another possible poor connection - and serve no
useful purpose. And as I said the chance of the 'tails' being the correct
length for your particular plug is rare.

I recall seeing advice that suggests it is actually better to use a
crimped bootlace ferrule on stranded wire prior to using in a screw
terminal... I think this particularly applies to terminating fines
stranded cables, or termination into terminals like U saddle clamps that
otherwise are poor at gripping smaller wires.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Tim S wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,
Chris J Dixon wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
So you don't bother lining up the screw slots. Figures.
You leave screws that show!!?
15 all
How do you conceal screws in most electrical fittings like sockets, etc? I
know some come with plastic plugs that cover them - but only el cheapo
shed ones.


Hi Dave,

GET are inexpensive (plastic version) but definitely not "cheap"[1] and have
plastic plugs. The only problem is I seem to destroy the plugs removing
them, so it's a bit of a waste of time...

Yup - sold by TLC as the "ultimate" range. My socket of choice...

[1] I've been very impressed by the build quality.

Indeed, me too.

You note the sockets come with four plastic plugs each - so you have a
spare set with each.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

dennis@home wrote:


"Tim S" wrote in message
...


GET are inexpensive (plastic version) but definitely not "cheap"[1]
and have
plastic plugs. The only problem is I seem to destroy the plugs removing
them, so it's a bit of a waste of time...

Is that before you fit them? you push them out from the back using the
screw.

No, they come attached to the back of the fitting on little posts. When
you are ready to fit them, just pop them off the posts and push them
into the screw hole. To remove one, use the tip of a sharp blade to
prise it out.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:19:47 UTC, wrote:

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:23:20 +0000, Ian White
wrote:

wrote:
Even after the 13 amp
ring was introduced, there were at least 4 types of non compatible plugs

I wish I had kept for interest sake a plugtop I found some years ago.

Istr that it had two round pins about the same size as the old 15amp
and an a rectangular earth pin as fitted to 13 amp plugs, or possibly
it was 2 rectangular and one round.

The wonderful 'Fitall' plug could probably have faked them both.

I had forgotten about those,my school had some on things like
projectors that moved between buildings whose age and wiring varied.
Did they have a fuse in them ?

Yes, but all the pins fell out when you took it apart to change the
fuse.

I may have mine somewhere, as a curio...
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
wrote:

They're simply adding another possible poor connection - and serve no
useful purpose. And as I said the chance of the 'tails' being the
correct length for your particular plug is rare.

For me, they serve the very useful purpose of keeping the strands of
conductor together while poking it into the hole into the screw down
terminal.

You find that a problem without? ;-)

I can understand why soldering the stranded conductor is a
bad idea (non-plastic deformation), but I don't think a crimped brass
sleeve (aglet/aiglet?) suffers the same problem, so I don''t see that
removal is warranted - especially as equipment is supplied with such
things in the attached pre-wired plug. However, I do know there are
people of long experience here in uk.d-i-y who have witnessed the
effect of solder on the conductors - maybe they have seen brass
sleeves have the same effect?

I'm not saying you are definitively wrong, but you have used the
weasel word 'possibly', which leaves a scintilla of doubt.

My experience says any extra connection which serves no purpose is to be
avoided.

Tightening a screw onto copper wire occasionally cuts through the wire
weaking & thinning it very much. The little brass ferrules eliminate
this problem.


NT

Dave wrote:
Frank Erskine wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:55:14 -0000, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:15:28 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

I

Most other countries were used to buying equipment with plugs fitted
for many years before it became compulsory here - but then they
probably didn't have the vast range of different ones we did. Even
after the 13 amp ring was introduced, there were at least 4 types of
non compatible plugs for that - let alone the older 2, 5 and 15amp
in both two and three pins.
I wish I had kept for interest sake a plugtop I found some years ago.

Istr that it had two round pins about the same size as the old 15amp
and an a rectangular earth pin as fitted to 13 amp plugs, or possibly
it was 2 rectangular and one round. Was a British Manufacturer and in
white plastic rather than prewar style brown Bakelite.
If it had a central hollow round pin with two flat pins offset either side
then I think that was the old Wylex mains plug.

I think they were popular in the '50s for council house installations.
I've no idea what the fuse ratings were.
I've only ever seen them in brown or black (dark!) colours. I'm pretty
certain that Woolies used to stock them on their wonderful electrical
counters... as well as my favourites, the MES batten lampholders and
tiny almost dolls-house size switches.

Wasn't there another 3-pin plug in which the live pin was a cartridge
fuse which screwed into the plug?

I can picture that, but I can't remember its name. Mind you, I'm only
62, quite a young sprog to some :-)

Somehow I've got in my mind a cartridge fuse in the earth pin...
Arghhh!

Never come across one of them, but where can I buy some of those bayonet
plugs that fitted a light socket. I would like one or two that split
into 2 outlets, one with an on off switch. Maybe Woolworths might find
some in their closing down sale :-)


Dave

Yard sales & car boots seem to be the only place to find those now.
They've been illegal to sell since about 1970. Beware of using them
with pvc flex & filament bubls, pvc doesnt tolerate being draped over
a hot bulb too well.


NT

wrote:
Dave wrote:
Frank Erskine wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:55:14 -0000, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:15:28 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

I

Most other countries were used to buying equipment with plugs fitted
for many years before it became compulsory here - but then they
probably didn't have the vast range of different ones we did. Even
after the 13 amp ring was introduced, there were at least 4 types of
non compatible plugs for that - let alone the older 2, 5 and 15amp
in both two and three pins.
I wish I had kept for interest sake a plugtop I found some years ago.

Istr that it had two round pins about the same size as the old 15amp
and an a rectangular earth pin as fitted to 13 amp plugs, or possibly
it was 2 rectangular and one round. Was a British Manufacturer and in
white plastic rather than prewar style brown Bakelite.
If it had a central hollow round pin with two flat pins offset either side
then I think that was the old Wylex mains plug.

I think they were popular in the '50s for council house installations.
I've no idea what the fuse ratings were.
I've only ever seen them in brown or black (dark!) colours. I'm pretty
certain that Woolies used to stock them on their wonderful electrical
counters... as well as my favourites, the MES batten lampholders and
tiny almost dolls-house size switches.

Wasn't there another 3-pin plug in which the live pin was a cartridge
fuse which screwed into the plug?

I can picture that, but I can't remember its name. Mind you, I'm only
62, quite a young sprog to some :-)

Somehow I've got in my mind a cartridge fuse in the earth pin...
Arghhh!

Never come across one of them, but where can I buy some of those bayonet
plugs that fitted a light socket. I would like one or two that split
into 2 outlets, one with an on off switch. Maybe Woolworths might find
some in their closing down sale :-)


Dave

Yard sales & car boots seem to be the only place to find those now.
They've been illegal to sell since about 1970. Beware of using them
with pvc flex & filament bubls, pvc doesnt tolerate being draped over
a hot bulb too well.


NT

On 2nd thoughts I remember argos recently did, and probably still do,
light fittings that come with BC plugs prefitted. The idea is you dont
need to do any electrical work, just plug the new fitting into the
lampholder of the old one. Rather pricey way to get BC plugs, but you
might find one on fleacycle.


NT

Bob Eager wrote:
Ian White wrote:
The wonderful 'Fitall' plug could probably have faked them both.

I had forgotten about those,my school had some on things like
projectors that moved between buildings whose age and wiring varied.
Did they have a fuse in them ?

Yes,

Thanks, that saved me a trip out to the shed.

but all the pins fell out when you took it apart to change the fuse.

Everybody used to get that wrong - in fact, the pins were designed to
*break* off from the outside.


--
Ian White

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
I recall seeing advice that suggests it is actually better to use a
crimped bootlace ferrule on stranded wire prior to using in a screw
terminal... I think this particularly applies to terminating fines
stranded cables, or termination into terminals like U saddle clamps that
otherwise are poor at gripping smaller wires.

Oh indeed - there are plenty of apps where they're a good idea. But as I
said the chances of a prepared cable with them having the correct lengths
for a plug is remote. The other question is how well they work with
something like the MK Safety Plug which has wrap round terminals rather
than the hole type.

--
*I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
I recall seeing advice that suggests it is actually better to use a
crimped bootlace ferrule on stranded wire prior to using in a screw
terminal... I think this particularly applies to terminating fines
stranded cables, or termination into terminals like U saddle clamps that
otherwise are poor at gripping smaller wires.

Oh indeed - there are plenty of apps where they're a good idea. But as I
said the chances of a prepared cable with them having the correct lengths
for a plug is remote. The other question is how well they work with
something like the MK Safety Plug which has wrap round terminals rather
than the hole type.

Yup the MK plug would be a problem... not ever been that fond of those
though (don't like wrap around terminals, and the things are rather wide).

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
tim..... wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
tim..... wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
M wrote:
Following up to Don

It looks as if there's going to be a boom time for the
'Professional Handymen' then.

25% cant change a fuse,jeez. Bloke next door is just like that,
gets SWMBOs dad over.

Lovely Jubbly :-)

If I thought that I'd could make a living out of doing numpty jobs
for people I'd join you

But I'm sure that I'd get more than my fair share of clearing out
gutters and digging out trees.

Plenty of work about matey, even in a cwedit cwunch. You would be
amazed.

As my career as a (software) engineer appears to have hit the
buffers, I could be competiting with you soon :-)

Tim. There is so much potential I wouldn't care if another half dozen
started up in the same town as me. They wouldn't have the marketing
savvy.

If you want any advice on starting up feel free to e-mail me direct. I'd
be happy to give you any info & help you want.

I may take you up on that in about 6 months ;-(

Though I won't be in direct competition with you

tim

tim..... wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
tim..... wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
tim..... wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
M wrote:
Following up to Don

It looks as if there's going to be a boom time for the
'Professional Handymen' then.

25% cant change a fuse,jeez. Bloke next door is just like that,
gets SWMBOs dad over.

Lovely Jubbly :-)

If I thought that I'd could make a living out of doing numpty jobs
for people I'd join you

But I'm sure that I'd get more than my fair share of clearing out
gutters and digging out trees.

Plenty of work about matey, even in a cwedit cwunch. You would be
amazed.

As my career as a (software) engineer appears to have hit the
buffers, I could be competiting with you soon :-)

Tim. There is so much potential I wouldn't care if another half
dozen started up in the same town as me. They wouldn't have the
marketing savvy.

If you want any advice on starting up feel free to e-mail me direct.
I'd be happy to give you any info & help you want.

I may take you up on that in about 6 months ;-(

You would be welcome to do so.

Though I won't be in direct competition with you

Nobody is locally.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
M writes:
Following up to Tim S

I don't know if it's due to:

1) Both parents working, so less time and more inclination to get trades in;

2) People really are more useless;

3) Society is getting dumbed down and discourages from being self sufficient
in the name of H&S.

increased affluence is probably a factor, with cars increased complexity
and blackbox factor is too.

....and at the other end, we're well through a couple of generations
of one parent families, where there's no tool box in the home, nor
anyone who knows how to use one, so the kids are never going to have
a clue either.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
M writes:
Following up to Tim S

I don't know if it's due to:

1) Both parents working, so less time and more inclination to get trades in;

2) People really are more useless;

3) Society is getting dumbed down and discourages from being self sufficient
in the name of H&S.
increased affluence is probably a factor, with cars increased complexity
and blackbox factor is too.

...and at the other end, we're well through a couple of generations
of one parent families, where there's no tool box in the home, nor
anyone who knows how to use one, so the kids are never going to have
a clue either.

For a time, my daughter shared a flat with a couple of well-educated
males from intact families. She was the only one with a tool box - and
she knows how to use the contents.

Sheila

In article ,
S Viemeister writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
M writes:
Following up to Tim S

I don't know if it's due to:

1) Both parents working, so less time and more inclination to get trades in;

2) People really are more useless;

3) Society is getting dumbed down and discourages from being self sufficient
in the name of H&S.
increased affluence is probably a factor, with cars increased complexity
and blackbox factor is too.

...and at the other end, we're well through a couple of generations
of one parent families, where there's no tool box in the home, nor
anyone who knows how to use one, so the kids are never going to have
a clue either.

For a time, my daughter shared a flat with a couple of well-educated
males from intact families. She was the only one with a tool box - and
she knows how to use the contents.

Sounds like she has a mum who does have a clue.
Sadly, not many do.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Tim S writes:
Don coughed up some electrons that declared:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...lightbulb.html

It looks as if there's going to be a boom time for the 'Professional
Handymen' then.

Don.

Sigh... On the bright side, the survey might have been drawn from Daily Mail
readers...

For what it's worth, my Dad would tackle most things, slowly, but with a
high degree of competance. Gas, electrics, woodwork (he'd change a rotton
sill, not the entire window frame).

Same with my dad, and I was very interested.
Come to think of it, most of the tables in my parents house were
made by dad - a couple of coffee tables and a large dining room
table (which had to be built in the room, as it won't go through
the doors).

At the age of 4 I had some comprehension of bulbs and batteries. Learnt that
that 90V hurt (valve radio battery).

Yes, I was playing with bulbs and batteries around then. For one of
my birthdays (probably age 5 or 6), my dad went to somewhere like
Proops or Henrys and bought half a dozen battery bulbs and holders,
a doorbell and a door buzzer, some diodes, some switches and push
buttons, wire and strippers, and a 4.5V battery. He got a small
wooden instrument box and cut out some foam to store all the
components in. I think that was one of the best birthday presents
I ever had. Hours of fun with it by myself, and of course, very
educational.

At 6 I was allowed to dismember a broken valve TV. I could put a plug on
flex from perhaps age 7 or 8 (2 pin lamp BC, round pin 2/5/15A and 13A. I
rewired a garage under supervision at about 14. Fixed a brick wall (only a
few bricks but it looked good and never fell apart) around the same time.
Made soakaways, pedastal for a water butt, basic plumbing etc.

Think I was about 13 when I was charged with replacing the cam controller in
a washing machine - had to label about 60 wires and get them back onto the
new part in the right order. And it worked.

That's all very similar to me. I used to particularly enjoy visiting
my grandparents. They had a box with lots of mains lampholders, wire,
bulbs, etc, and I would spend hours wiring up circuits, and around age
8, I had a good understanding of wiring up bulbs in parallel and series,
and what happens if you wire up dufferent wattage bulbs in series. This
was all mains stuff, and before RCD's were around. Frankly, I'm amazed
looking back that I was allowed to do this, but very greatful that I was.
I didn't ever get an electric shock from it, although I did get a couple
doing other things.

Kids aren't stupid but you have to make the effort. I love taking mine down
to the Bungalow, to show them what a building looks like in various stages
of dismemberment. They get to see all the interesting things I buy like
CUs, light switches and various tools.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

S Viemeister wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
M writes:
Following up to Tim S

I don't know if it's due to:

1) Both parents working, so less time and more inclination to get
trades in; 2) People really are more useless;

3) Society is getting dumbed down and discourages from being self
sufficient in the name of H&S.
increased affluence is probably a factor, with cars increased
complexity and blackbox factor is too.

...and at the other end, we're well through a couple of generations
of one parent families, where there's no tool box in the home, nor
anyone who knows how to use one, so the kids are never going to have
a clue either.

For a time, my daughter shared a flat with a couple of well-educated
males from intact families. She was the only one with a tool box -
and she knows how to use the contents.

I put together a basic toolkit for my daughter when she went to uni, she
shared with 8 others & did all the odd repair jobs around the place.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Yes, I was playing with bulbs and batteries around then. For one of
my birthdays (probably age 5 or 6), my dad went to somewhere like
Proops or Henrys and bought half a dozen battery bulbs and holders,
a doorbell and a door buzzer, some diodes, some switches and push
buttons, wire and strippers, and a 4.5V battery. He got a small
wooden instrument box and cut out some foam to store all the
components in. I think that was one of the best birthday presents
I ever had. Hours of fun with it by myself, and of course, very
educational.


So, what cheap goodies would you put in the box today if you wanted to
introduce a child to electronics etc? I'm sure most kids would be
fascinated but, if your dad doesn't know what a diode is, what chance do
you have? :-)

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:41:08 +0000, stuart noble wrote:

For one of my birthdays (probably age 5 or 6), my dad went to somewhere
like Proops or Henrys and bought half a dozen battery bulbs and
holders, a doorbell and a door buzzer, some diodes, some switches and
push buttons, wire and strippers, and a 4.5V battery.

So, what cheap goodies would you put in the box today if you wanted to
introduce a child to electronics etc?

Just the same stuff, the basics haven't changed.

I'm sure most kids would be fascinated

They are and are taught simple series/parallel light bulbs at primary
school. I certainly wasn't, I don't think I was taught anything that could
be even loosely described as "electronics" at school.

but, if your dad doesn't know what a diode is, what chance do you have?
:-)

Getting given the box of interesting bits is the problem but once you have
them books or the web will give the information required to play with the
bits and experiment.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article et,
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:41:08 +0000, stuart noble wrote:

For one of my birthdays (probably age 5 or 6), my dad went to somewhere
like Proops or Henrys and bought half a dozen battery bulbs and
holders, a doorbell and a door buzzer, some diodes, some switches and
push buttons, wire and strippers, and a 4.5V battery.

So, what cheap goodies would you put in the box today if you wanted to
introduce a child to electronics etc?

Just the same stuff, the basics haven't changed.

I'm sure most kids would be fascinated

They are and are taught simple series/parallel light bulbs at primary
school. I certainly wasn't, I don't think I was taught anything that could
be even loosely described as "electronics" at school.

but, if your dad doesn't know what a diode is, what chance do you have?
:-)

Getting given the box of interesting bits is the problem but once you have
them books or the web will give the information required to play with the
bits and experiment.

I didn't have any electrical books then, certainly no web. I don't even
recall my dad needing to help me out playing with the bits -- I just got
on with it myself. I had already been playing with components in my dad's
boxes of bits, mostly from valve equipment. There were lots of 6V bulbs
(used to light up tuning scales and the like in valve radios) and I had
tried running them in series with all the loose components, occasionally
finding one which dimmed the bulb, and the potentiometers (again, with
little success as they were probably mostly 100k and upwards). I think
my early attraction may have been to the pretty coloured components,
all the resistors used in valve kit were much bigger than today's
components, with prominent colour codings, and probably looked like
sweets (although I never tried eating them).

I've got a 2½ year old nephew, who is fascinated by my DIY, fixing up
lights, dismantling/reassembling torches etc, and when he's old enough,
I'll probably do something similar for him. For his 2nd birthday, I
bought him an LED torch, one of the ones you shake to charge up (partly
chosen as it didn't disassemble into small pieces), and that generated
more interest than many of the toys.

When I was a bit older, probably around 8, my dad bought the components
for a couple of Practical Electronics projects for me, which I built.
At age 10, I got to choose a monthly magazine, which at that time was
usually Everyday Electronics (which I think had just started up then),
and gradually changed over to Practical Electronics and ETI as I got
older. I still have all those stacked up (and lots of Elektors).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article et,
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:41:08 +0000, stuart noble wrote:

For one of my birthdays (probably age 5 or 6), my dad went to somewhere
like Proops or Henrys and bought half a dozen battery bulbs and
holders, a doorbell and a door buzzer, some diodes, some switches and
push buttons, wire and strippers, and a 4.5V battery.
So, what cheap goodies would you put in the box today if you wanted to
introduce a child to electronics etc?
Just the same stuff, the basics haven't changed.

I'm sure most kids would be fascinated
They are and are taught simple series/parallel light bulbs at primary
school. I certainly wasn't, I don't think I was taught anything that could
be even loosely described as "electronics" at school.

but, if your dad doesn't know what a diode is, what chance do you have?
:-)
Getting given the box of interesting bits is the problem but once you have
them books or the web will give the information required to play with the
bits and experiment.

I didn't have any electrical books then, certainly no web. I don't even
recall my dad needing to help me out playing with the bits -- I just got
on with it myself. I had already been playing with components in my dad's
boxes of bits, mostly from valve equipment. There were lots of 6V bulbs
(used to light up tuning scales and the like in valve radios) and I had
tried running them in series with all the loose components, occasionally
finding one which dimmed the bulb, and the potentiometers (again, with
little success as they were probably mostly 100k and upwards). I think
my early attraction may have been to the pretty coloured components,
all the resistors used in valve kit were much bigger than today's
components, with prominent colour codings, and probably looked like
sweets (although I never tried eating them).

I've got a 2½ year old nephew, who is fascinated by my DIY, fixing up
lights, dismantling/reassembling torches etc, and when he's old enough,
I'll probably do something similar for him. For his 2nd birthday, I
bought him an LED torch, one of the ones you shake to charge up (partly
chosen as it didn't disassemble into small pieces), and that generated
more interest than many of the toys.

When I was a bit older, probably around 8, my dad bought the components
for a couple of Practical Electronics projects for me, which I built.
At age 10, I got to choose a monthly magazine, which at that time was
usually Everyday Electronics (which I think had just started up then),
and gradually changed over to Practical Electronics and ETI as I got
older. I still have all those stacked up (and lots of Elektors).


I suppose these days most of the interesting stuff has to be soldered.
It's a shame there aren't collections of plug-in components that the
younger ones could mess around with, like an electronic Meccano