About 4 weeks ago I posted a comment about unreliability of Baxi Barcelona
(3 logic boards in 5 years) ... standard condensing boiler

After 2 weeks of running OK with latest board ... now have an intermittent
problem ... at least every couple of days it fails.

Boiler stops working .... removing the front lower cover, shows the
'overheat/lockout' red LED is illuminated.

Turning the boiler 'off' with the thermostat on/off switch .... and then
back on again, puts boiler through a reset and all works again for a few
days.

All works OK ... plenty of output, and DHW and heating worked fine for
several days, then it happened again.


In fault condition ... Main LED is ON, and not flashing.
Lock out LED is on and not flashing
From manual this states 'Ignition Lockout' has occurred.


It suggests:
condensate trap is blocked
Fan is not running
No spark
gas below pressure
Faulty logic board.

Swapped out logic board again ... no difference.

As all works again when I reset ... anybody any ideas ? .... any of those
could give a momentary glitch I guess, but how would I track down, other
than expensive elimination swap outs.

"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...
About 4 weeks ago I posted a comment about unreliability of Baxi
Barcelona (3 logic boards in 5 years) ... standard condensing boiler

After 2 weeks of running OK with latest board ... now have an
intermittent problem ... at least every couple of days it fails.

Boiler stops working .... removing the front lower cover, shows the
'overheat/lockout' red LED is illuminated.

Turning the boiler 'off' with the thermostat on/off switch .... and then
back on again, puts boiler through a reset and all works again for a few
days.

All works OK ... plenty of output, and DHW and heating worked fine for
several days, then it happened again.


In fault condition ... Main LED is ON, and not flashing.
Lock out LED is on and not flashing
From manual this states 'Ignition Lockout' has occurred.


It suggests:
condensate trap is blocked
Fan is not running
No spark
gas below pressure
Faulty logic board.

Swapped out logic board again ... no difference.

As all works again when I reset ... anybody any ideas ? .... any of
those could give a momentary glitch I guess, but how would I track down,
other than expensive elimination swap outs.


Check the combustion chamber door seals and other seals that allow heat to
escape.
Michael

On 9 Dec, 20:04, "Rick Hughes" wrote:
About 4 weeks ago I posted a comment about unreliability of Baxi Barcelona
(3 logic boards in 5 years)

As all works again when I reset ... anybody any ideas ? *.... any of those
could give a momentary glitch I guess, but how would I track down, other
than expensive elimination swap outs.

IME the best way to trace these sort of very intermittent electric/
electronic faults is by using a data logger; they can be bought on
ebay for around £70. A data logger can be useful for other
applications too, for instance I traced an intermittent engine cutting
out fault on my daughter's Focus that a main Ford dealer had been
unable to find. I have also used it for for fine-tuning central
heating etc. I have reverse-engineered the PCBs to trace the circuits
for the Baxi Barcelona so if you do decide to go down that route I can
provide you with suggestions on what points to monitor.

I have also found that a useful monitor of the ignition sequence on
the Barcelona is to place a radio (preferably switched to Long Wave)
alongside the boiler. You can then hear the ignition sparks via the
interference on the radio. This enables you to detect whether the
boiler starts at the first spark (which it should do if all is well)
or whether it needs several attempts to fire up. With a little
practice you can even gauge the energy content of the sparks from the
level of interference. This is only of use with hard faults of
course, or while the intermittent fault is present.

Another thing you could try is leaving the front cover off the PCB
housing. This will allow the PCBs to run cooler.

By the way, have you confirmed that the Control PCBs that you have
changed were indeed faulty?

CRB

"crb" wrote in message
...
On 9 Dec, 20:04, "Rick Hughes" wrote:
About 4 weeks ago I posted a comment about unreliability of Baxi Barcelona
(3 logic boards in 5 years)

As all works again when I reset ... anybody any ideas ? .... any of those
could give a momentary glitch I guess, but how would I track down, other
than expensive elimination swap outs.

Another thing you could try is leaving the front cover off the PCB
housing. This will allow the PCBs to run cooler.
------------------

How about a small PC cooling fan directed at the board. A boiler can be
quite a hot place and can not help a pcb. What is Maxie's take on this?

"crb" wrote in message
...

IME the best way to trace these sort of very intermittent electric/
electronic faults is by using a data logger; they can be bought on
ebay for around £70. A data logger can be useful for other
applications too, for instance I traced an intermittent engine cutting
out fault on my daughter's Focus that a main Ford dealer had been
unable to find. I have also used it for for fine-tuning central
heating etc.
------------

How did you fine tune a CH system with it?

On 10 Dec, 12:35, "Doctor Drivel" wrote

How did you fine tune a CH system with it?

I have a separate thermostat in the master bedroom to maintain a
minimum night-time temperature. I used the data logger to establish
the normal temperature drop off rate and the night-time warm up rate
to optimise the night-time boiler burn time. Also used it to
establish normal boiler cycle time (I once had a boiler problem with
short-cycling), and to optimise the radiator ouputs for each of the
rooms.

CRB

On 10 Dec, 15:39, crb wrote:


Buying a data logger does not seem a likely way forward for me ... it
would require an in-depth understanding of how the thing is supposed
to work, which I don't have.

The original control board had a hard fault ... would blow fuse as
soon as switched on.
Replaced control board ... and all run OK for 2 weeks .... then this
intermittant 'ignition lock out/ overheat' fault started.

In case it was a faulty board - replaced board again ... but same
fault, unlikely 2 boards would have same intermittant fault.

New board has 4 'jumpers' not 2 ..... have set it to J1, 3, 4 IN
J2 out which is advised setting for thermal store use. (also tried
it with all jumpers out - no difference regarding fault)

Today I removed and cleaned out the condensing water trap (as manual
advises this is one cause of ignition lock out)

Set ignitor gap to correct gap - 3.5mm

Still same ... intermittant lock out, rest clears until next lock out.

With cold weather this is now a pain, means we often get up to no hot
water or CH. !

"Osprey" wrote in message
...
On 10 Dec, 15:39, crb wrote:


Buying a data logger does not seem a likely way forward for me ... it
would require an in-depth understanding of how the thing is supposed
to work, which I don't have.

The original control board had a hard fault ... would blow fuse as
soon as switched on.
Replaced control board ... and all run OK for 2 weeks .... then this
intermittant 'ignition lock out/ overheat' fault started.

In case it was a faulty board - replaced board again ... but same
fault, unlikely 2 boards would have same intermittant fault.

New board has 4 'jumpers' not 2 ..... have set it to J1, 3, 4 IN
J2 out which is advised setting for thermal store use. (also tried
it with all jumpers out - no difference regarding fault)

Today I removed and cleaned out the condensing water trap (as manual
advises this is one cause of ignition lock out)

Set ignitor gap to correct gap - 3.5mm

Still same ... intermittant lock out, rest clears until next lock out.

With cold weather this is now a pain, means we often get up to no hot
water or CH. !

Check combustion chamber seals, as these cause problems on some boilers.
Check that the heat exchanger is not blocked and flow through it is good.
Local overheating of the heat exchanger can cause overheat lockout. Check
overheat and flow pipe thermister too. These items are not expensive.

If no luck, scrap it and put in a decent boiler.

On 11 Dec, 14:44, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"Osprey" wrote in message

...





On 10 Dec, 15:39, crb wrote:

Buying a data logger does not seem a likely way forward for me ... it
would require an in-depth understanding of how the thing is supposed
to work, which I don't have.

The original control board had a hard fault ... would blow fuse as
soon as switched on.
Replaced control board ... and all run OK for 2 weeks .... then this
intermittant 'ignition lock out/ overheat' fault started.

In case it was a faulty board - replaced board again ... but same
fault, unlikely 2 boards would have same intermittant fault.

New board has 4 'jumpers' not 2 ..... have set it to J1, 3, 4 *IN
J2 out * which is advised setting for thermal store use. * (also tried
it with all jumpers out - no difference regarding fault)

Today I removed and cleaned out the condensing water trap (as manual
advises this is one cause of ignition lock out)

Set ignitor gap to correct gap - 3.5mm

Still same ... intermittant lock out, rest clears until next lock out.

With cold weather this is now a pain, means we often get up to no hot
water or CH. * !

Check combustion chamber seals, as these cause problems on some boilers.
Check that the heat exchanger is not blocked and flow through it is good.
Local overheating of the heat exchanger can cause overheat lockout. Check
overheat and flow pipe thermister too. *These items are not expensive.

If no luck, scrap it and put in a decent boiler.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have ordered a new thermistor & cumbustion door seals for tomorrow
morning ..........
Not going to scrap a boiler only 5 years old. :-)

"Osprey" wrote in message
...
On 11 Dec, 14:44, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"Osprey" wrote in message

...





On 10 Dec, 15:39, crb wrote:

Buying a data logger does not seem a likely way forward for me ... it
would require an in-depth understanding of how the thing is supposed
to work, which I don't have.

The original control board had a hard fault ... would blow fuse as
soon as switched on.
Replaced control board ... and all run OK for 2 weeks .... then this
intermittant 'ignition lock out/ overheat' fault started.

In case it was a faulty board - replaced board again ... but same
fault, unlikely 2 boards would have same intermittant fault.

New board has 4 'jumpers' not 2 ..... have set it to J1, 3, 4 IN
J2 out which is advised setting for thermal store use. (also tried
it with all jumpers out - no difference regarding fault)

Today I removed and cleaned out the condensing water trap (as manual
advises this is one cause of ignition lock out)

Set ignitor gap to correct gap - 3.5mm

Still same ... intermittant lock out, rest clears until next lock out.

With cold weather this is now a pain, means we often get up to no hot
water or CH. !

Check combustion chamber seals, as these cause problems on some boilers.
Check that the heat exchanger is not blocked and flow through it is good.
Local overheating of the heat exchanger can cause overheat lockout. Check
overheat and flow pipe thermister too. These items are not expensive.

If no luck, scrap it and put in a decent boiler.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have ordered a new thermistor & cumbustion door seals for tomorrow
morning ..........
Not going to scrap a boiler only 5 years old. :-)
----------------

Keep at it. You will get there. Best of luck.

BTW, poor quality ignition leads can caus problems on some boilers.

Just as well its not an Ideal, as they appear to be winding up, and they own
Keston too. Control parts should not be a problem with Ideals, just the
major parts like heat exchangers.

BTW, poor quality ignition leads can caus problems on some boilers.



That is a valid point, this fault only started 'after' I changed the wiring
harness (with 2 week delay) ... I'll also put the old ignition lead back in
as a try.

"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...


BTW, poor quality ignition leads can caus problems on some boilers.



That is a valid point, this fault only started 'after' I changed the
wiring harness (with 2 week delay) ... I'll also put the old ignition
lead back in as a try.
But unlikely if the reason for the lockout was "overheat"!
I'd go for the door seals or other various other gaskets/seals around the
combustion chamber.
Michael

"Osprey" wrote in message
...
On 11 Dec, 14:44, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"Osprey" wrote in message

...





On 10 Dec, 15:39, crb wrote:

Buying a data logger does not seem a likely way forward for me ... it
would require an in-depth understanding of how the thing is supposed
to work, which I don't have.

The original control board had a hard fault ... would blow fuse as
soon as switched on.
Replaced control board ... and all run OK for 2 weeks .... then this
intermittant 'ignition lock out/ overheat' fault started.

In case it was a faulty board - replaced board again ... but same
fault, unlikely 2 boards would have same intermittant fault.

New board has 4 'jumpers' not 2 ..... have set it to J1, 3, 4 IN
J2 out which is advised setting for thermal store use. (also tried
it with all jumpers out - no difference regarding fault)

Today I removed and cleaned out the condensing water trap (as manual
advises this is one cause of ignition lock out)

Set ignitor gap to correct gap - 3.5mm

Still same ... intermittant lock out, rest clears until next lock out.

With cold weather this is now a pain, means we often get up to no hot
water or CH. !

Check combustion chamber seals, as these cause problems on some boilers.
Check that the heat exchanger is not blocked and flow through it is good.
Local overheating of the heat exchanger can cause overheat lockout. Check
overheat and flow pipe thermister too. These items are not expensive.

If no luck, scrap it and put in a decent boiler.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have ordered a new thermistor & cumbustion door seals for tomorrow
morning ..........
Not going to scrap a boiler only 5 years old. :-)
--------------------

This boiler is know to be problems. I don't know what you have paid so far
for parts, but a combi/system boiler can be bought from B&Q for £300 - a
Heatline which is owned by Vaillant. The combi can be used as a system
boiler. By the time you replace know problem parts, and the constant
hassle, a new boiler would have been cheaper and with a guarantee too.

Heating only a thermal store doing long burns is the perfect hydraulic
environment for a boiler. Full flow and no cycling, so no excessive wear on
controls. A cheap condenser would be OK on such a setup. One of the
advantages of a thermal store is that simple cheap boilers may be used
without little adverse affects on the boiler or system.

Boilers with more complicated control systems are "generally" a waste of
time and money on such systems. The exception is dual temperature boilers,
like the Broag, Keston and others (avoid Keston though). With dual
temperature boilers with internal weather compensation, using a boiler
controlled 3-way diverter valve, they can reheat the DHW store top section
ASAP under full boiler heat, when heated the valve closes and it heats the
CH section under low temperature weather compensation control - duel
temperature boiler output. The rads or UFH pumps this water to the heating
loop(s). Using rads a Smart pump with TRVs all around can be used and no
central room stat screwing up the CH air temprature control.

"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...

BTW, poor quality ignition leads can caus problems on some boilers.

That is a valid point, this fault only started 'after' I changed the
wiring harness (with 2 week delay) ... I'll also put the old ignition lead
back in as a try.

Is this boiler fixed?