"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 08:57:03 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 23:40:14 -0000, Ron Lowe wrote:

So a gas bayonet arangement only seals of at the 'fitting' side, not
the 'hose' side when the connection is broken?

Yep.

Why the heck is it not fail-safe in this error condition?

Because the law (trys to) say that only properly trained and registered
professionals are allowed to install this kit and properly trained
professionals never, ever, make mistakes do they?

We all make small mistakes from time to time. Hopefully we spot the bigger
ones.
However this type of mistake arises from a total ignorance about the
purpose and mechanism of the fittings involved.

What I'm saying is that say in driving we all make mistakes, but you'd
only sit in the driving seat backwards if you did not know how to drive at
all.


Yes indeed.

A basic visual inspection of the components would show how the sealing
mechanism operates, even if ( like myself ) you have no prior experience.

It is a serious error which the installer has made.

Nonetheless, human errors do occour, from DIYers, cowboys, and
proffesionals.
And the safest option is to design equipment which mitigates stupidity and
human error as much as is reasonably possible.
It is certainly reasonably possible to engineer bayonet fittings to mitigate
this failure.
Fittings which seal at both ends.
They are in common usage elsewhere, and do not add any dis-advantage except
minimal cost.


--
Ron

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 14:58:53 +0000, Tim S wrote:



Actually, marking gas in the house would be good to (the odd wrap of
yellow PVC tape would be good!).

The general requirement to label pipes in relaxed (AIUI) for use in the
home. However there are circumstances where it might be helpful and/or
unobtrusive to do so.





--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 19:35:22 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:


If the house was rented than annual inspections are mandatory. It would
almost certainly have been picked up.

I'm not so sure Ed.

When I was trying to sell my late parent's house (ha!), the first thing
I did was book a CORGI chap in for a Landlord's Gas Safety check plus
boiler service, partly so I'd feel happy leaving it on unattended as
frost protection and partly to show the buyers.

For that I did get:

Boiler cleaned;
Flue smoke tested;

I didn't get:

[1]Any sort of leak test on the pipework, no manometers, just
enough fairy foam to test the joints he re-assembled;

No check on the cooker connection;

Boiler condemned due to lazy valve (you may remember, it came up
here ages ago).

[1] is rather relevant because upstairs the gas pipe is in 22mm copper
across notched joists just under the flooring with no iron plates, so
pipe damage quite likely.

It was definately a lot less thorough in scope than an electrical PIR,
and I can do the latter well enough for my own purposes.

This was sub-standard inspection, what was put in the box on the form for
the gas soundness test?



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 15:17:53 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember YAPH saying
something like:

I can count 3 faults on that installation!


Please do tell


Heh!

Anybody else?

The two parallel threaded joints into the barrel.

No: the two fittings that fit into the barrel are both taper and fit
nicely.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Ron Lowe" ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote in message
...
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 08:57:03 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 23:40:14 -0000, Ron Lowe wrote:

So a gas bayonet arangement only seals of at the 'fitting' side, not
the 'hose' side when the connection is broken?

Yep.

Why the heck is it not fail-safe in this error condition?

Because the law (trys to) say that only properly trained and registered
professionals are allowed to install this kit and properly trained
professionals never, ever, make mistakes do they?

We all make small mistakes from time to time. Hopefully we spot the
bigger
ones.
However this type of mistake arises from a total ignorance about the
purpose and mechanism of the fittings involved.

What I'm saying is that say in driving we all make mistakes, but you'd
only sit in the driving seat backwards if you did not know how to drive
at
all.


Yes indeed.

A basic visual inspection of the components would show how the sealing
mechanism operates, even if ( like myself ) you have no prior experience.

It is a serious error which the installer has made.

Nonetheless, human errors do occour, from DIYers, cowboys, and
proffesionals.
And the safest option is to design equipment which mitigates stupidity and
human error as much as is reasonably possible.
It is certainly reasonably possible to engineer bayonet fittings to
mitigate
this failure.
Fittings which seal at both ends.
They are in common usage elsewhere, and do not add any dis-advantage
except
minimal cost.

Ron

It's the last two words which do have the biggest bearing on the matter.
Minimal Cost to a manufacturer can mean life or death on today's market.
The product they make might be slightly safer, it could be 100% more safe,
but if there's a cheaper one people can use without any further obligation,
the cheaper one will sell out and leave the much safer one on the store
shelf.

Sorry fact that "minimal cost" has a huge bearing on everything now-a-days.

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:


This was sub-standard inspection, what was put in the box on the form for
the gas soundness test?


Hi Ed,

Just found the original form CP1/"Gas Safety Certificate"

The soundness box is blank.

Cheers

Tim

On Dec 6, 4:27*pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"Tim S" wrote in message

...

Would have been very easy to put my pipe cutter through the wrong one!

Well don't try and fix it or do anything like turning the gas off if you
aren't corgi registered.
You wouldn't want to get into any more trouble. * ;-)

At least gas doesn't cause stains.

Apart from in one's trousers.

MBQ

On Dec 6, 12:00*am, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message

...

Take a look at.

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0272.JPG

This was perhaps the most dangerous piece of gas fitting I have directly
seen to date. What was really concerning was that the bayonet had become
unlatched and was just the grip of a sticky O-ring away from a very large
escape of gas.

Doesn't removing the bayonet turn off the gas?
It does on mine.
Before the O ring seal breaks too.

Please don't ever do any gas work. You are obviously not competent.

MBQ

On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 07:38:23 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:


This was sub-standard inspection, what was put in the box on the form
for the gas soundness test?


Hi Ed,

Just found the original form CP1/"Gas Safety Certificate"

The soundness box is blank.


Well, well.




--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 07:38:23 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:


This was sub-standard inspection, what was put in the box on the form
for the gas soundness test?


Hi Ed,

Just found the original form CP1/"Gas Safety Certificate"

The soundness box is blank.


Well, well.

Not worth the paper it isn't printed on then?

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 07:38:23 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:


This was sub-standard inspection, what was put in the box on the form
for the gas soundness test?


Hi Ed,

Just found the original form CP1/"Gas Safety Certificate"

The soundness box is blank.


Well, well.


I wish I'd known more about matters gaseous then...

Please could you tell me: is it expected to complete a soundness test always
for a Gas Safety Cert (I would have thought so, but then I don't have the
rule book)?

Cheers

Tim

BTW - you probably won't recall, but I called CORGI about this bloke, mostly
regarding the fact that he left me wish a lazy gas valve on a Bermuda Baxi
back boiler which caused a stink of gas everytime it started due to the
fact I guess that it took the valve about 30 seconds to fully open. That
matter was resolved by another fitter coming out and dealing with the
problem. But I didn't think (or know) to raise the soundness test, or lack
of, at the time

In message , Ed Sirett
writes
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 08:57:03 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 23:40:14 -0000, Ron Lowe wrote:

So a gas bayonet arangement only seals of at the 'fitting' side, not
the 'hose' side when the connection is broken?

Yep.

Why the heck is it not fail-safe in this error condition?

Because the law (trys to) say that only properly trained and registered
professionals are allowed to install this kit and properly trained
professionals never, ever, make mistakes do they?

We all make small mistakes from time to time. Hopefully we spot the bigger
ones.
However this type of mistake arises from a total ignorance about the
purpose and mechanism of the fittings involved.

What I'm saying is that say in driving we all make mistakes, but you'd
only sit in the driving seat backwards if you did not know how to drive at
all.

but with a couple of brain cells, you could work it out

It;s not a mistake, it's lack of a clue


--
geoff

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 13:23:10 GMT, Ed Sirett
wrote:

Thatis a mattwer of how you interpret the phrase in the regs that says

"[the sleeving] must be of a material capable of carrying gas".

That'll be a plastic carrier bag then


--

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:44:49 GMT, John Stumbles
wrote:

You might equally
ask why domestic 13A plug & socket connectors aren't made so that they
shield the connectors at both ends, so if some dickhead decides to wire the
supply up to a 13A *plug* it doesn't kill anyone.


The idiot referred to in this link probably had it wired correctly and
it still killed him.

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/Hea...-to.4699316.jp



--

On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 20:26:52 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 07:38:23 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:


This was sub-standard inspection, what was put in the box on the form
for the gas soundness test?


Hi Ed,

Just found the original form CP1/"Gas Safety Certificate"

The soundness box is blank.


Well, well.


I wish I'd known more about matters gaseous then...

Please could you tell me: is it expected to complete a soundness test
always for a Gas Safety Cert (I would have thought so, but then I don't
have the rule book)?

Well I've just looked in the "book"
(Essential Domestic Gas Safety ISSN 1456- 6332).

It more or less says:
Landlord must maintain a safe gas installation, appliances and flues.

Therefore there is a duty to inspect the meter and installation pipework.

It is however not legally binding except in as much as it's the Landlord's
duty...


Cheers

Tim

BTW - you probably won't recall, but I called CORGI about this bloke,
mostly regarding the fact that he left me wish a lazy gas valve on a
Bermuda Baxi back boiler which caused a stink of gas everytime it
started due to the fact I guess that it took the valve about 30 seconds
to fully open. That matter was resolved by another fitter coming out and
dealing with the problem. But I didn't think (or know) to raise the
soundness test, or lack of, at the time

If you have no loyalty to the fitter then a call to CORGI will work
wonders. CORGI will probably simply have a word with him about the fact
that half a job may render his backside uncovered.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On 6 Dec, 13:14, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

It's interesting that some seem to have invented the everlasting chemical
reaction?

These are quite common on cuprous alloys. Take a look at "bronze
disease" affecting museum artefacts already being stored in benign
environments and the grief you have to arrest that once it's started.

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:


Well I've just looked in the "book"
(Essential Domestic Gas Safety ISSN 1456- 6332).

It more or less says:
Landlord must maintain a safe gas installation, appliances and flues.

Therefore there is a duty to inspect the meter and installation pipework.

It is however not legally binding except in as much as it's the Landlord's
duty...

Thanks Ed. Sounds like what I have isn't really worth the paper it's
scribbled on...

I've been reading bits of the Viper Domestic Natural Gas Handbook courtesty
of Viper's 7 day online free trial, and it is certainly interesting.

Could you recommend any other titles that are a worth a browse?

I think, whether one intends to attempt gas work or not, it's worth having a
basic knowledge so you know if the person you're supposed to trust is in
fact doing a thorough job or not.

Cheers

Tim

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:45:41 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:


Well I've just looked in the "book"
(Essential Domestic Gas Safety ISSN 1456- 6332).

It more or less says:
Landlord must maintain a safe gas installation, appliances and flues.

Therefore there is a duty to inspect the meter and installation
pipework.

It is however not legally binding except in as much as it's the
Landlord's duty...

Thanks Ed. Sounds like what I have isn't really worth the paper it's
scribbled on...

I've been reading bits of the Viper Domestic Natural Gas Handbook
courtesty of Viper's 7 day online free trial, and it is certainly
interesting.

Could you recommend any other titles that are a worth a browse?

I think, whether one intends to attempt gas work or not, it's worth
having a basic knowledge so you know if the person you're supposed to
trust is in fact doing a thorough job or not.

The Viper book is considered the "Bible" for Domestic Gas Fitting. Many
training/assessment centres often produce their own version being chunks
of the Viper Book and the BS Standards.
Essential Gas Safety is only available form CORGI to Members which give a
lot of guidance, it just that if you followed /everything/ in that book
you never be able to go to any place without there being /something/
wrong.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:41:26 GMT, Ed Sirett
wrote:

Essential Gas Safety is only available form CORGI to Members

Which really says it all.

Time someone scanned their 'words of wisdom' and released it free of
charge on the net.


--