Take a look at.

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0272.JPG

This was perhaps the most dangerous piece of gas fitting I have directly
seen to date. What was really concerning was that the bayonet had become
unlatched and was just the grip of a sticky O-ring away from a very large
escape of gas.

A Riddor will be submitted. There may be an investigation...

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

Ed Sirett wrote:
Take a look at.

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0272.JPG

This was perhaps the most dangerous piece of gas fitting I have directly
seen to date. What was really concerning was that the bayonet had become
unlatched and was just the grip of a sticky O-ring away from a very large
escape of gas.

If the bayonet connector is on that end, what have they got on the other
end of the flexible pipe?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
Take a look at.

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0272.JPG

This was perhaps the most dangerous piece of gas fitting I have directly
seen to date. What was really concerning was that the bayonet had become
unlatched and was just the grip of a sticky O-ring away from a very large
escape of gas.

Doesn't removing the bayonet turn off the gas?
It does on mine.
Before the O ring seal breaks too.

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:

Take a look at.

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0272.JPG

This was perhaps the most dangerous piece of gas fitting I have directly
seen to date. What was really concerning was that the bayonet had become
unlatched and was just the grip of a sticky O-ring away from a very large
escape of gas.

A Riddor will be submitted. There may be an investigation...


Wonder if the same person makes mains extension leads with plugs on both
ends...

Given the number of adaptors in the picture, and the fact that he wasn't
short of PTFE, what do you think possessed him to not just screw the other
end of the hose on to the appliance in the first place?

Is there any indication if it's paid for work or diy'er on crack?

Tim

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
Take a look at.

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0272.JPG

This was perhaps the most dangerous piece of gas fitting I have directly
seen to date. What was really concerning was that the bayonet had become
unlatched and was just the grip of a sticky O-ring away from a very large
escape of gas.

A Riddor will be submitted. There may be an investigation...

Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.


Oh my God !!! As John Rumm has asked. What is holding the other end of the
flexible tubing? I suppose this was an unofficial installation? Surely, it
must be. And for the sake of a quarter turn, it could have been a lovely
disaster. Thankfully, in a way, it is on an appliance that does not move
about much.

It wouldn't be anywhere near Wigan, would it?

BigWallop wrote:
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
Take a look at.

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0272.JPG

This was perhaps the most dangerous piece of gas fitting I have directly
seen to date. What was really concerning was that the bayonet had become
unlatched and was just the grip of a sticky O-ring away from a very large
escape of gas.

A Riddor will be submitted. There may be an investigation...

Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.


Oh my God !!! As John Rumm has asked. What is holding the other end of the
flexible tubing? I suppose this was an unofficial installation? Surely, it
must be. And for the sake of a quarter turn, it could have been a lovely
disaster. Thankfully, in a way, it is on an appliance that does not move
about much.

It wouldn't be anywhere near Wigan, would it?


Speaking of which:

"The massive explosion which tore through a block of Wigan flats WAS
caused by gas.
Fire investigators are satisfied that the blast at Blake Close, Worsley
Mesnes, was due to an escape of gas in the flat.
The source of the escape and its cause has not been determined but the
fire department's findings have been reported to Greater Manchester
Police, who are carrying out their own investigations.

A spokesman for Greater Manchester Fire and Rescue said: "We can confirm
that the blast was caused by a leakage of gas, ignited by a source
within the premises.
"The fire investigation has been conducted and police have been briefed
on the findings.""

http://www.wigantoday.net/wigannews/Leaking-gas-caused-flats-explosion.4766485.jp

(It feels like Have I Got News For You, quoting from obscure
publications with vaguely amusing titles.)

I guess a digital camera has become an essential tool for gas fitters -
and probably many others - these days?

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:55:12 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

Ed Sirett wrote:
Take a look at.

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0272.JPG

This was perhaps the most dangerous piece of gas fitting I have
directly seen to date. What was really concerning was that the bayonet
had become unlatched and was just the grip of a sticky O-ring away from
a very large escape of gas.

If the bayonet connector is on that end, what have they got on the other
end of the flexible pipe?

The other end which is 1/2" male went into an (unsecured) wall plate
elbow.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 00:42:16 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:

Take a look at.

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0272.JPG

This was perhaps the most dangerous piece of gas fitting I have
directly seen to date. What was really concerning was that the bayonet
had become unlatched and was just the grip of a sticky O-ring away from
a very large escape of gas.

A Riddor will be submitted. There may be an investigation...


Wonder if the same person makes mains extension leads with plugs on both
ends...

Given the number of adaptors in the picture, and the fact that he wasn't
short of PTFE, what do you think possessed him to not just screw the
other end of the hose on to the appliance in the first place?

Is there any indication if it's paid for work or diy'er on crack?

Unregistered builder/kitchen fitters.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 00:57:30 +0000, BigWallop wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
Take a look at.

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0272.JPG

This was perhaps the most dangerous piece of gas fitting I have
directly seen to date. What was really concerning was that the bayonet
had become unlatched and was just the grip of a sticky O-ring away from
a very large escape of gas.

A Riddor will be submitted. There may be an investigation...

Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.


Oh my God !!! As John Rumm has asked. What is holding the other end of
the flexible tubing?

The whole things is reversed i.e. Bayonet is on cooker and plain end on
supply (instead of bayonet elbow).


I suppose this was an unofficial installation?
Surely, it must be. And for the sake of a quarter turn, it could have
been a lovely disaster. Thankfully, in a way, it is on an appliance
that does not move about much.

Not even the 1/4 turn just a few mm of movement held by friction of an O-
ring. I got called in because the cooker had stopped because the self
sealing had blocked the supply into the cooker.

It wouldn't be anywhere near Wigan, would it?
No, London N10.




--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

In article ,
Ed Sirett wrote:
Given the number of adaptors in the picture, and the fact that he
wasn't short of PTFE, what do you think possessed him to not just
screw the other end of the hose on to the appliance in the first place?

Is there any indication if it's paid for work or diy'er on crack?

Unregistered builder/kitchen fitters.

Makes you wonder how many of the wall cabinets stayed up...

--
*You never really learn to swear until you learn to drive *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:


Unregistered builder/kitchen fitters.



Hope the book gets thrown at them...

And there's me who worries about doing gas work because I'm not sure which
flux is correct (ie not going to eat the pipe away in 5 years[1]) or if
jointing compound should be used in certain cases...

[1] I might as well ask now it's come up - is Fluxite (old fashioned brown
stuff) considered gas safe, together with a 60/40 solder?

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:

is Fluxite (old fashioned brown stuff) considered gas safe

It was certainly the stuff that dad used to "liberate" from EMGAS stock
for plumbing at home.

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:41:08 +0000, Rod wrote:



I guess a digital camera has become an essential tool for gas fitters -
and probably many others - these days?

Since several have asked - the other end.
http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0273.JPG

The "Gas Installer" has a section call "Eye Spy" which publishes the most
staggering examples of creative gas use. If selected they give prizes like
combustion analysers or locking pipe carriers.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

Ed Sirett wrote:

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:41:08 +0000, Rod wrote:
I guess a digital camera has become an essential tool for gas fitters -
and probably many others - these days?

Since several have asked - the other end.
http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0273.JPG

Just to be sure, for the uneducated(including me!), the pipe out of the
floor has the bayonet fitting at the top?
So the other end of the flexi should be a straight bolt on to the pipe
from the cooker?
I presume all the unions/connectors used were there as they didnt have
the right type of coupling to do a direct flexipipe to cooker pipe?

Ta
Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:41:08 +0000, Rod wrote:



I guess a digital camera has become an essential tool for gas fitters -
and probably many others - these days?

Since several have asked - the other end.
http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0273.JPG



An interesting (non) use of a backplate elbow !!!!
Dave

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 10:04:14 +0000, Tim S wrote:

[1] I might as well ask now it's come up - is Fluxite (old fashioned
brown stuff) considered gas safe, together with a 60/40 solder?

No! [throws book :-)]

It must be heat-activated flux like LaCo and Fernox stuff - should say on
the tin that it's OK for gas work. AIUI the idea is that the flux is only
corrosive (necessary to cut through crap on the surface to wet the metal
with solder) when it's hot, so when it cools down any that's run inside
the joint doesn't corrode the pipe from the inside (since of course you
can't flush out your gas pipework as you can with water services[1].

For the same reason you must apply flux to the pipe only, and not inside
the fitting.

And electrical solder would be out simply because it's not approved for
gas work.

All sounds very pedantic and arse-covering, I know, but as I hope you
see there is method in at least some of the madness.

I had to walk away from fitting a hob this week because it didn't have the
manufacturer's instructions (or even a data plate) and was missing
any fixing clamps. According to the customer (who'd bought it on the
interweb) the MIs (which he's getting the seller to send) say that the hob
is secured by the sealing strips. Sounds dodgy to me, but if that's what
it says in the MIs then that's OK. However if I'd fitted it like that in
the absence of instructions to that effect and there'd been any comeback
I'd have had the book thrown at me. And why would there be any comeback? I
don't know, but it can happen for unexpected reasons. I put a boiler in
for someone in a flat and I ran the gas pipe at high level on a wall
outside the flat to get into it. Some busybody in the residents'
association took it upon themselves to winge about it to the freeholder's
managing agents who got it inspected by another installer who covered his
own arse by flagging up some sleeving where the pipework went through the
wall as Not to Current Standards since (as he explained to me) he couldn't
identify the material used for the sleeve so couldn't be sure it complied
with the regs. I ended up spending about half a day chasing up that
installer, writing to the agents, explaining the situation to the customer
and so on.


[1] Don't even think of it: how are you going to dry it out? And be sure
it's dried out?


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

I can't stand intolerance

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 00:57:30 +0000, BigWallop wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
Take a look at.

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0272.JPG

This was perhaps the most dangerous piece of gas fitting I have
directly seen to date. What was really concerning was that the bayonet
had become unlatched and was just the grip of a sticky O-ring away from
a very large escape of gas.

A Riddor will be submitted. There may be an investigation...

Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.


Oh my God !!! As John Rumm has asked. What is holding the other end of
the flexible tubing?

The whole things is reversed i.e. Bayonet is on cooker and plain end on
supply (instead of bayonet elbow).


I suppose this was an unofficial installation?
Surely, it must be. And for the sake of a quarter turn, it could have
been a lovely disaster. Thankfully, in a way, it is on an appliance
that does not move about much.

Not even the 1/4 turn just a few mm of movement held by friction of an O-
ring. I got called in because the cooker had stopped because the self
sealing had blocked the supply into the cooker.

It wouldn't be anywhere near Wigan, would it?
No, London N10.

Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.


It is unbelievable that this is still happening. I thought you lot talking
about that Rogue Traders was just a laugh, but there really needs to be
someone who can police these sorts of jobs. Not on a random basis, but have
someone check it out after it's supposed to be complete.

I know you CORGI guys have to self police your works, but can't you get the
job of following up on any kitchen installation / renovations etc? Because
that is a killer waiting to happen.

As soon as I looked at the first photo' I thought, No, that can't be the
back of the stove. Surely not. And now I see the second photograph of the
elbow dangling in mid air, I realise that something really needs to be done
about these real cowboys, before more Wigan explosions occur.

The Sparks shouted about the Part P building control requirement, but I
think that gas installations and alterations should also be policed in the
same way now. And it's cost cutting measures that are causing this to
happen. Isn't it lucky that the self seal plunger wasn't damaged.

Good luck with it, by the way. And good luck with your competition entry,
as well. :-)

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 10:11:48 +0000, Ed Sirett wrote:

The "Gas Installer" has a section call "Eye Spy" which publishes the
most staggering examples of creative gas use. If selected they give
prizes like combustion analysers or locking pipe carriers.

Look forward to seeing your snapshots in there Ed!

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

87.5% of statistics are made up

On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:46:21 +0000, Ed Sirett wrote:

Take a look at.

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0272.JPG

I can count 3 faults on that installation!

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

What is a simile like?

YAPH wrote:

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 10:04:14 +0000, Tim S wrote:

is Fluxite (old fashioned brown stuff) considered gas safe

No!

That seems at odds with this

http://www.fernox.com/?cccpage=fluxite&sub=5

"UKWBF listed, used and approved by British Gas"

heat-activated flux like LaCo

That's certainly my choice these days.

In article ,
BigWallop wrote:
The Sparks shouted about the Part P building control requirement, but I
think that gas installations and alterations should also be policed in
the same way now. And it's cost cutting measures that are causing this
to happen.

There is no way you'll stop cowboy builders by legislation. The meja love
to go on about DIY - but the vast majority of such problems are not DIY
but done by someone being paid for the work.

The reason is pretty simple - few would choose to live in a place where
they know there's a possibility of a gas leak, etc. The cowboy builder
walks away after making the mess.

--
*Many people quit looking for work when they find a job *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:46:21 +0000, Ed Sirett wrote:

Take a look at.

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0272.JPG

I can count 3 faults on that installation!

John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk


The bit that is getting me, is that all the correct parts are there, but in
the wrong place and order. How and why? :-)

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Ed Sirett wrote:
Given the number of adaptors in the picture, and the fact that he
wasn't short of PTFE, what do you think possessed him to not just
screw the other end of the hose on to the appliance in the first place?

Is there any indication if it's paid for work or diy'er on crack?

Unregistered builder/kitchen fitters.

Makes you wonder how many of the wall cabinets stayed up...

nailed securely to a gas pipe probably...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

YAPH coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 10:04:14 +0000, Tim S wrote:

[1] I might as well ask now it's come up - is Fluxite (old fashioned
brown stuff) considered gas safe, together with a 60/40 solder?

No! [throws book :-)]

It must be heat-activated flux like LaCo and Fernox stuff - should say on
the tin that it's OK for gas work. AIUI the idea is that the flux is only
corrosive (necessary to cut through crap on the surface to wet the metal
with solder) when it's hot, so when it cools down any that's run inside
the joint doesn't corrode the pipe from the inside (since of course you
can't flush out your gas pipework as you can with water services[1].

For the same reason you must apply flux to the pipe only, and not inside
the fitting.

And electrical solder would be out simply because it's not approved for
gas work.

Cool - thanks for that. I'd read varying descriptions of whether Fluxite was
OK or not, but nothing definitive. The only reason I thought of it was I
still use it with 60/40 wet work and I'm fairly sure I'd seen it used with
gas in the 70's.

But I can see that a heat activated flux is sure not to cause problems.

Cheers

Tim

In article ,
YAPH wrote:
It must be heat-activated flux like LaCo and Fernox stuff - should say on
the tin that it's OK for gas work. AIUI the idea is that the flux is only
corrosive (necessary to cut through crap on the surface to wet the metal
with solder) when it's hot, so when it cools down any that's run inside
the joint doesn't corrode the pipe from the inside (since of course you
can't flush out your gas pipework as you can with water services[1].

It's interesting that some seem to have invented the everlasting chemical
reaction? Usually any residual corrosion caused by excess flux will come
to an end long before it eats through the pipe. Even extremely corrosive
active flux types only used on water pipes don't seem to etch in very far
if not wiped off. Over many many years.

--
*If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

YAPH coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:46:21 +0000, Ed Sirett wrote:

Take a look at.

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0272.JPG

I can count 3 faults on that installation!


Please do tell

My uneducated list would be:

a) The wrong way round hose, obviously

b) The unsecured pipe at the other end as previously mentioned

c) But what's c?
Is it that the weight of the gas hose will have a tendency to undo the
connection on the back of the cooker; or the other end being jointed with
what looks like hemp and green compound?

Looking forward to finding out

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:

c) But what's c?

No isolating valve?

YAPH wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 10:04:14 +0000, Tim S wrote:

[1] I might as well ask now it's come up - is Fluxite (old fashioned
brown stuff) considered gas safe, together with a 60/40 solder?

No! [throws book :-)]

It must be heat-activated flux like LaCo and Fernox stuff - should say on
the tin that it's OK for gas work. AIUI the idea is that the flux is only

"Must" or "preferred"? I have always used Fry metals Powerflow which
claims to be suitable for Gas[1], but I was not aware of that being heat
activated particularly - its mildly acidic and certainly cleans copper
on contact. (the residue if left on the outside of a pipe will usually
encourage verdigris, but does not seem to etch or corrode the copper
even after time).


BES description is "Paste flux for copper and brass fittings for water,
heating and gas services. British Gas plc, WRc plc approved."

For the same reason you must apply flux to the pipe only, and not inside
the fitting.

Never really found that necessary in other circumstances either. Perhaps
because I keep my spare fittings nice and clean in a box or bag...

And electrical solder would be out simply because it's not approved for
gas work.

I assume that Tim probably meant 40/60 (ish) rather than 60/40 eutectic.

(I did have to use electronics solder once in an emergency to repair a
hot water connection to a basin - its surprising how much 26 AWG you
need for a pipe joint compared to the more typical gauges intended for
plumbing)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 11:59:57 +0000, YAPH wrote:

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 10:04:14 +0000, Tim S wrote:

[1] I might as well ask now it's come up - is Fluxite (old fashioned
brown stuff) considered gas safe, together with a 60/40 solder?

No! [throws book :-)]

It must be heat-activated flux like LaCo and Fernox stuff - should say
on the tin that it's OK for gas work. AIUI the idea is that the flux is
only corrosive (necessary to cut through crap on the surface to wet the
metal with solder) when it's hot, so when it cools down any that's run
inside the joint doesn't corrode the pipe from the inside (since of
course you can't flush out your gas pipework as you can with water
services[1].

For the same reason you must apply flux to the pipe only, and not inside
the fitting.

And electrical solder would be out simply because it's not approved for
gas work.

All sounds very pedantic and arse-covering, I know, but as I hope you
see there is method in at least some of the madness.

I had to walk away from fitting a hob this week because it didn't have
the manufacturer's instructions (or even a data plate) and was missing
any fixing clamps. According to the customer (who'd bought it on the
interweb) the MIs (which he's getting the seller to send) say that the
hob is secured by the sealing strips. Sounds dodgy to me, but if that's
what it says in the MIs then that's OK. However if I'd fitted it like
that in the absence of instructions to that effect and there'd been any
comeback I'd have had the book thrown at me. And why would there be any
comeback? I don't know, but it can happen for unexpected reasons. I put
a boiler in for someone in a flat and I ran the gas pipe at high level
on a wall outside the flat to get into it. Some busybody in the
residents' association took it upon themselves to winge about it to the
freeholder's managing agents who got it inspected by another installer
who covered his own arse by flagging up some sleeving where the pipework
went through the wall as Not to Current Standards since (as he explained
to me) he couldn't identify the material used for the sleeve so couldn't
be sure it complied with the regs. I ended up spending about half a day
chasing up that installer, writing to the agents, explaining the
situation to the customer and so on.

Thatis a mattwer of how you interpret the phrase in the regs that says

"[the sleeving] must be of a material capable of carrying gas".

A strict interpretation would be that the sleeve must be steel or copper.
A looser interpretation would be that the sleeve must be a material that
COULD carry gas but MIGHT not be used for that purpose.








--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

In article ,
Tim S wrote:
Cool - thanks for that. I'd read varying descriptions of whether Fluxite
was OK or not, but nothing definitive. The only reason I thought of it
was I still use it with 60/40 wet work and I'm fairly sure I'd seen it
used with gas in the 70's.

Fluxite do make a flux suitable for gas work. Whether it's the same
formulation as earlier, I dunno. But 'old' Fluxite didn't cause noticeable
corrosion if left on copper anyway - at least nothing like EverFlux, etc.

--
*Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 11:43:07 +0000, Dave wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:41:08 +0000, Rod wrote:



I guess a digital camera has become an essential tool for gas fitters
- and probably many others - these days?

Since several have asked - the other end.
http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0273.JPG



An interesting (non) use of a backplate elbow !!!! Dave

In the repair I turned it 90 degrees and fixed a block behind it and
screwed the plate through the block to the wall.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
et...
Tim S wrote:

c) But what's c?

No isolating valve?

No.

When fitted correctly then the female bayonet fitting
is the gas isolating valve.

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 12:04:10 +0000, BigWallop wrote:






It is unbelievable that this is still happening. I thought you lot
talking about that Rogue Traders was just a laugh, but there really
needs to be someone who can police these sorts of jobs. Not on a random
basis, but have someone check it out after it's supposed to be complete.

I know you CORGI guys have to self police your works, but can't you get
the job of following up on any kitchen installation / renovations etc?
Because that is a killer waiting to happen.

By the book, (one of) the kitchen fitters is/are meant to have a CORGI
membership.

If the house was rented than annual inspections are mandatory. It would
almost certainly have been picked up.

If we come across stuff like this we have procedures to follow if we can't
fix things there and then.

Finally for really serious faults like this. We are required to report
them to the HSE who will try to find out who and stop them before someone
else does/might get hurt.


Isn't it lucky that the self seal plunger wasn't damaged.

yes because if it had failed to work the cooker would have remained
working until the end fell out.



Good luck with it, by the way. And good luck with your competition
entry, as well. :-)




--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 12:52:52 +0000, BigWallop wrote:

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:46:21 +0000, Ed Sirett wrote:

Take a look at.

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0272.JPG

I can count 3 faults on that installation!

John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk


The bit that is getting me, is that all the correct parts are there, but
in the wrong place and order. How and why? :-)

Because all the joints are 1/2" BSP. And because the original installed
did not know the right order.

I had a one fitting over [1] after correcting it all, (including removing
the water PTFE tape).

The order I left them in was:
1) Wall plate elbow now secured to the wall.
2) The bayonet socket (open end downwards).
3) The hose, unstrained U-shape.
4) The 1/2" Barrel.
5) The 1/2" Taper male to internal flat face coupling.

I used Hawk White to seal everything.


[1] A 1/2" male iron to 15mm compression elbow being used as a 1/2" male-
male elbow.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

In message , BigWallop
wrote


The Sparks shouted about the Part P building control requirement, but I
think that gas installations and alterations should also be policed in the
same way now. And it's cost cutting measures that are causing this to
happen.

Have you considered it's the price charged by a Corgi or Part P
registered companies that is causing the problem in the first place?
When the cost of registration is so high it leaves plenty of scope for
the cowboys[1] to easily undercut the price.

More regulation will not stop the problem. It only works when
_everybody_ is prepared to obey the rules. Offer someone a cheaper
price, cash in hand, no questions asked and there will be a lot of
takers.

Programs like rouge traders only go to prove that the threat of being
caught out is no deterrent. They often have the same people trading
under different names and even when it results in a prosecution the
presenters proudly state their actions resulted in the cowboy getting a
few hour of community service.

[1]
According to the Corgi site, even their officially registered members
should be treated as cowboys if the are doing work 'off the book' for
friends and relatives.



--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

A.Lee wrote:
Ed Sirett wrote:

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:41:08 +0000, Rod wrote:
I guess a digital camera has become an essential tool for gas fitters -
and probably many others - these days?
Since several have asked - the other end.
http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/HNTphotos/100_0273.JPG

Just to be sure, for the uneducated(including me!), the pipe out of the
floor has the bayonet fitting at the top?

It should have had - but as pictured it only has the wall mounting elbow
(that the bayonet fitting would normally screw into) on the pipe end
(and even that is rotated 90 degrees such that it could not be screwed
to the wall). Our ingenious fitter has been rather creative and managed
to fit the hose back to front, with the supposedly wall mounted bayonet
connector on the cooker end. This means the automatic valve in the
female bit of bayonet connector that would normally prevent the escape
of gas from the pipe when the hose is removed, now gets removed with the
cooker - leaving a flexi pipe connected direct to the house gas supply,
with no way of turning it off (other than at the meter).

So the other end of the flexi should be a straight bolt on to the pipe
from the cooker?

Yup

I presume all the unions/connectors used were there as they didnt have
the right type of coupling to do a direct flexipipe to cooker pipe?

The other (non bayonet) end usually screws in quite nicely without the
need for any titting about ;-)

(The cooker will normally have a 1/2" BSP female connection that the
matching taper end thread of the hose would screw into - it might be
that the shiney pipe with what lookes like a male end has also been
added by the creative installer to allow clearance for the bayonet
connector!)


Ta
Alan.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:

YAPH wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 10:04:14 +0000, Tim S wrote:

[1] I might as well ask now it's come up - is Fluxite (old fashioned
brown stuff) considered gas safe, together with a 60/40 solder?

No! [throws book :-)]

It must be heat-activated flux like LaCo and Fernox stuff - should say on
the tin that it's OK for gas work. AIUI the idea is that the flux is only

"Must" or "preferred"? I have always used Fry metals Powerflow which
claims to be suitable for Gas[1], but I was not aware of that being heat
activated particularly - its mildly acidic and certainly cleans copper
on contact. (the residue if left on the outside of a pipe will usually
encourage verdigris, but does not seem to etch or corrode the copper
even after time).


BES description is "Paste flux for copper and brass fittings for water,
heating and gas services. British Gas plc, WRc plc approved."

Personally I can't see many standard fluxes eating right through dry copper
pipe (it's quite thick) in any reasonable timescale...

but...

The reason I asked, is that, if I did solder a gas pipe, I'd rather do it by
the book, even if the book is a bit *nal

For the same reason you must apply flux to the pipe only, and not inside
the fitting.

Never really found that necessary in other circumstances either. Perhaps
because I keep my spare fittings nice and clean in a box or bag...

And electrical solder would be out simply because it's not approved for
gas work.

I assume that Tim probably meant 40/60 (ish) rather than 60/40 eutectic.

Erm, yes. Silly typo. Next time I'll just say "leaded plumbing solder", as
opposed to unleaded.

Cheers

Tim

YAPH coughed up some electrons that declared:

some sleeving where the pipework went through the
wall as Not to Current Standards since (as he explained to me) he couldn't
identify the material used for the sleeve so couldn't be sure it complied
with the regs.

Silly question: the sleeving isn't there to carry gas, but rather to protect
the pipe surely?

Cheers

Tim

BigWallop wrote:

It is unbelievable that this is still happening. I thought you lot talking
about that Rogue Traders was just a laugh, but there really needs to be
someone who can police these sorts of jobs. Not on a random basis, but have
someone check it out after it's supposed to be complete.

I know you CORGI guys have to self police your works, but can't you get the
job of following up on any kitchen installation / renovations etc? Because
that is a killer waiting to happen.

As soon as I looked at the first photo' I thought, No, that can't be the
back of the stove. Surely not. And now I see the second photograph of the
elbow dangling in mid air, I realise that something really needs to be done
about these real cowboys, before more Wigan explosions occur.

Gosh, you sound just like a NuLabia cabinet minister ;-)

The Sparks shouted about the Part P building control requirement, but I
think that gas installations and alterations should also be policed in the
same way now. And it's cost cutting measures that are causing this to

Well think through the implications of that. Have the Part P regulations
make electrical systems safer? The *rise* in deaths from electrocution
that has followed would suggest not.

Remember also that you can't legislate against cowboys - who almost by
definition don't take any notice of legislation anyway.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Ed Sirett writes:

Thatis a mattwer of how you interpret the phrase in the regs that says

"[the sleeving] must be of a material capable of carrying gas".

A strict interpretation would be that the sleeve must be steel or copper.
A looser interpretation would be that the sleeve must be a material that
COULD carry gas but MIGHT not be used for that purpose.

As I commented some months back, in what appears to be a major
program of replacing gas boilers in council places a year or two
back (as evidenced by all the council properties suddenly growing
copper vines up all the exterior walls), there's not one bit of
sleeving used anywhere -- all the pipes are mortared directly in
(very neatly so, it has to be said).

When I put my heating in some years back, I had only ever seen
plastic pipe used as sleeves. For the 28mm pipe, I used 40mm
plastic (or might have been 32mm, but I doubt that would have
fitted). For the 22m and 15mm pipework, I sleeved it in next
size up copper. I'd never seen this done, and I did wonder if
someone might claim it was non-conformant because the sleeve
might corrode in the wall. Where I had 15mm water pipes going
through walls, I sleeved those in 20mm plastic electrical
conduit. I was expecting the water pipes to slide in the
sleeving due to expansion and contraction, but with the gas
pipework sleeved in copper, the gas pipe is fixed so it runs
centrally through the sleeve and can't touch (these sleeves
are between rooms, so there's no seal either side).

Copper sliding against copper can eventually wear through the
pipe. Had a number of aircon systems fail due to this in
various commercial premises.

Incidentally, the putty-type seal which British Gas have used
in my meter box is reacting nicely with the copper pipe it
surrounds. The resulting copper salts have migrated some way
into the putty.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]