Good Evening,

This is my first post to the group so please be gental :-) sorry for
any spelling mistakes/bad grammer in advance.

I live in a basement flat and above me there is a vacant shop premises
(two rooms) and above that another flat that is rented out.

Anyway the power is not connected at the moment in the shop (I think
the company fuse??) is missing. There is a meter and two cu's (one for
the central heating I guess).

One of the builders tendered want's mains, so this is where my
question begins.

I have mains in my flat (obviousley :-) )

It has been suggested that an extension leed can be used, one end
plugged into a 13a socket in my flat and at the other end a leed made
(with two 13a plugs) one plugged into the extension drum, the other
into one ring main in the shop premises.

Would this work?

What if the are on another phase upstairs?

Any pitfalls I shold look out for? (the builder has promised a tidy
sum for power )

Is it legal?

Is it safe?

Any help appciaed before I agree.

Cheers!

I have mains in my flat (obviousley :-) )

It has been suggested that an extension leed can be used, one end
plugged into a 13a socket in my flat and at the other end a leed made
(with two 13a plugs) one plugged into the extension drum, the other
into one ring main in the shop premises.



Am I correct in saying that you want to use (make?) an extention lead with a
13A 3 pin plug on either end, one end going into an extention drum which
goes to your flat, whilst the other end of the double ended extention will
go into a socket of the ring main of the property downstairs ????
I certainly hope that I am wrong. If that is what you intend doing ... IT
IS ABSOLUTELY LETHAL. This is because if anyone unplugs the plug that will
go into the socket downstairs, THE 3 PIN PLUG PRONGS WILL BE LIVE AND COULD
KILL.
Why not just run things directly from the extention drum?
PLEASE, never use a lead with a 13A 3 pin plug on each end.
Dave

Dave wrote:
I have mains in my flat (obviousley :-) )

It has been suggested that an extension leed can be used, one end
plugged into a 13a socket in my flat and at the other end a leed made
(with two 13a plugs) one plugged into the extension drum, the other
into one ring main in the shop premises.



Am I correct in saying that you want to use (make?) an extention lead with a
13A 3 pin plug on either end, one end going into an extention drum which
goes to your flat, whilst the other end of the double ended extention will
go into a socket of the ring main of the property downstairs ????
I certainly hope that I am wrong. If that is what you intend doing ... IT
IS ABSOLUTELY LETHAL. This is because if anyone unplugs the plug that will
go into the socket downstairs, THE 3 PIN PLUG PRONGS WILL BE LIVE AND COULD
KILL.
Why not just run things directly from the extention drum?
PLEASE, never use a lead with a 13A 3 pin plug on each end.
Dave


And no-one expects sockets to be live when the company fuse is not
present. Which they would be in your 13A-to-13A scheme.

Make certain that an extension lead is plugged into an RCD, not directly
into the socket.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Nov 28, 9:11*pm, "Dave" wrote:
I have mains in my flat (obviousley :-) )

Am I correct in saying that you want to use (make?) an extention lead with a
13A 3 pin plug on either end, one end going into an extention drum which
goes to your flat, whilst the other end of the double ended extention will
go into a socket of the ring main of the property downstairs ????

Yes, this is what the builder suggests, though the max load will prob
not exceed 15amps.

I certainly hope that I am wrong. *If that is what you intend doing ... IT
IS ABSOLUTELY LETHAL. *This is because if anyone unplugs the plug that will
go into the socket downstairs, THE 3 PIN PLUG PRONGS WILL BE LIVE AND COULD
KILL.

These sockets are not connected to the outside electic though, does
this make a difference?

Why not just run things directly from the extention drum?

He wan'ts to run a an heater as well.

PLEASE, never use a lead with a 13A 3 pin plug on each end.
Dave

OK, i'lll not agree, but im interested to here more why it won't work.

Cheers!

Gamma Eridon wrote:
On Nov 28, 9:11 pm, "Dave" wrote:
I have mains in my flat (obviousley :-) )

Am I correct in saying that you want to use (make?) an extention lead with a
13A 3 pin plug on either end, one end going into an extention drum which
goes to your flat, whilst the other end of the double ended extention will
go into a socket of the ring main of the property downstairs ????

Yes, this is what the builder suggests, though the max load will prob
not exceed 15amps.

I certainly hope that I am wrong. If that is what you intend doing ... IT
IS ABSOLUTELY LETHAL. This is because if anyone unplugs the plug that will
go into the socket downstairs, THE 3 PIN PLUG PRONGS WILL BE LIVE AND COULD
KILL.

These sockets are not connected to the outside electic though, does
this make a difference?

Why not just run things directly from the extention drum?

He wan'ts to run a an heater as well.

PLEASE, never use a lead with a 13A 3 pin plug on each end.
Dave

OK, i'lll not agree, but im interested to here more why it won't work.

Cheers!

If he wants to run a heater, I'd be getting very worried about the load
he is intending to put on the cable. You have a socket rated at 13A. If
he tries to run a 3KW heater plus other things, that will overload your
socket (and his plug and, probably, cable). And could be dangerous.

And Dave didn't say it wouldn't work.

He said:

IT IS ABSOLUTELY LETHAL.

and

THE 3 PIN PLUG PRONGS WILL BE LIVE AND COULD KILL.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Gamma Eridon wrote:

Good Evening,

This is my first post to the group so please be gental :-) sorry for
any spelling mistakes/bad grammer in advance.

I live in a basement flat and above me there is a vacant shop premises
(two rooms) and above that another flat that is rented out.

Anyway the power is not connected at the moment in the shop (I think
the company fuse??) is missing. There is a meter and two cu's (one for
the central heating I guess).

One of the builders tendered want's mains, so this is where my
question begins.

I have mains in my flat (obviousley :-) )

It has been suggested that an extension leed can be used, one end
plugged into a 13a socket in my flat and at the other end a leed made
(with two 13a plugs) one plugged into the extension drum, the other
into one ring main in the shop premises.

Would this work?

most probably. Whether its a wise idea is another matter

What if the are on another phase upstairs?

I thought you said power was disconnected


Any pitfalls I shold look out for?

I dont know if youre joking or not - but yes, various basic safety,
legality and suability pitfalls.


(the builder has promised a tidy
sum for power )

Is it legal?

no


Is it safe?

no

Any help appciaed before I agree.

Cheers!

sensible thing would be to provide builder with a plugged in extension
lead, of the normal legal kind. Good long length, 13A rated, with 4
sockets on. Wha youre suggesting is idiotic


NT

On Nov 28, 9:27*pm, Rod wrote:

If he wants to run a heater, I'd be getting very worried about the load
he is intending to put on the cable. You have a socket rated at 13A. If
he tries to run a 3KW heater plus other things, that will overload your
socket (and his plug and, probably, cable). And could be dangerous.

OK, i'n not keen on doing this now, just intresed in technical
details :-)

Heater is apatantlee just a Phillips fan heater by the way.

I don't think I will agree to this plan unless Im sure it is safe!

Cheers!

On Nov 28, 9:29*pm, wrote:
Gamma Eridon wrote:


What if the are on another phase upstairs?

I thought you said power was disconnected

I am in the asement flat, The upstairs tennants have their own supply.
The shop has the main fuse missing before the meter (is this the
company fuse?).

sensible thing would be to provide builder with a plugged in extension
lead, of the normal legal kind. Good long length, 13A rated, with 4
sockets on. Wha youre suggesting is idiotic

Would this be enough to run the Phillips?

Cheers!

Gamma Eridon wrote:
On Nov 28, 9:29�pm, wrote:
Gamma Eridon wrote:


What if the are on another phase upstairs?

I thought you said power was disconnected

I am in the asement flat, The upstairs tennants have their own supply.
The shop has the main fuse missing before the meter (is this the
company fuse?).

sensible thing would be to provide builder with a plugged in extension
lead, of the normal legal kind. Good long length, 13A rated, with 4
sockets on. Wha youre suggesting is idiotic

Would this be enough to run the Phillips?

Cheers!

I gather you mean the heater. I dont know its ratings, nor those of
the tools he'll be using, but almost definitely not. If he wants a
heater, you can run a 1nd extension lead for that alone.

The main problem with the plug to plug idea is not the live pins.
Those can kill but its unlikely. Bigger problems are the wire causing
a fire due to considerable overload, failure to switch power off if
it goes wrong, risk of appearing before the judge, with possiblity of
custodial time, and possibility of being sued. I know there are people
that do that sort of thing, but its not very smart.


NT

"Rod" wrote in message

If he wants to run a heater, I'd be getting very worried about the load
he is intending to put on the cable. You have a socket rated at 13A. If
he tries to run a 3KW heater plus other things, that will overload your
socket (and his plug and, probably, cable). And could be dangerous.

About just enough load to blow the 13 amp fuse.

Rod, this is a spam post. Re read it. It would not fool Baldrick.

Adam

On Nov 28, 9:11*pm, "Dave" wrote:
I have mains in my flat (obviousley :-) )

It has been suggested that an extension leed can be used, one end
plugged into a 13a socket in my flat and at the other end a leed made
(with two 13a plugs) one plugged into the extension drum, the other
into one ring main in the shop premises.

Am I correct in saying that you want to use (make?) an extention lead with a
13A 3 pin plug on either end, one end going into an extention drum which
goes to your flat, whilst the other end of the double ended extention will
go into a socket of the ring main of the property downstairs ????
I certainly hope that I am wrong. *If that is what you intend doing ... IT
IS ABSOLUTELY LETHAL. *This is because if anyone unplugs the plug that will
go into the socket downstairs, THE 3 PIN PLUG PRONGS WILL BE LIVE AND COULD
KILL.
Why not just run things directly from the extention drum?
PLEASE, never use a lead with a 13A 3 pin plug on each end.
Dave

Just to be clear what if both supplies meet via this arangement? not
sure if they are on diffrent phases???

Cheers!

sensible thing would be to provide builder with a plugged in extension
lead, of the normal legal kind. Good long length, 13A rated, with 4
sockets on. Wha youre suggesting is idiotic

Would this be enough to run the Phillips?

Cheers!


If you only require power for building work in the shop, then I would
seriously suggest to you to use 2 separate (drum) extension leads
downstairs, one for the heater, the other for power tools. I would plug one
extension into one socket upstairs and the other into a separate socket
upstairs. That should equalise the power out over the upstairs ring main.
This is a much safer way of working. Of course, I would only use the
extensions as a temporary measure, while builders are at work.

I am very surprised at ANYONE agreeing to electrical work as you first
described, let alone an electrician!!

Hope this is of use.

Dave

On Nov 28, 9:57*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
"Rod" wrote in message

If he wants to run a heater, I'd be getting very worried about the load
he is intending to put on the cable. You have a socket rated at 13A. If
he tries to run a 3KW heater plus other things, that will overload your
socket (and his plug and, probably, cable). And could be dangerous.

About just enough load to blow the 13 amp fuse.

Rod, this is a spam post. Re read it. It would not fool Baldrick.

Adam

No Adam, im not a spammer.

Gamma Eridon wrote:
Good Evening,

This is my first post to the group so please be gental :-) sorry for
any spelling mistakes/bad grammer in advance.

I live in a basement flat and above me there is a vacant shop premises
(two rooms) and above that another flat that is rented out.

Anyway the power is not connected at the moment in the shop (I think
the company fuse??) is missing. There is a meter and two cu's (one for
the central heating I guess).

One of the builders tendered want's mains, so this is where my
question begins.

I have mains in my flat (obviousley :-) )

It has been suggested that an extension leed can be used, one end
plugged into a 13a socket in my flat and at the other end a leed made
(with two 13a plugs) one plugged into the extension drum, the other
into one ring main in the shop premises.

Would this work?

Golly, what a lot of hysteria in this thread!

Yes, it will work.

What if the are on another phase upstairs?

If it's disconnected, I don't see why this should be a problem.

Any pitfalls I shold look out for? (the builder has promised a tidy
sum for power )

The only pitfall from your POV is how much power he might draw. As long as
your extension is fused though you should be okay. To protect him, a RCD
would be probably be good too.

From his POV, putting two male plugs on an extension lead represents a fair
hazard to anyone handling the live end of the lead. Not clever.

Is it legal?

Dunno. I'm sure it flouts electrical regs but you're hardly going to have
the police banging on your door.


Is it safe?

Will he burn your house down? Probably not. Might he electrocute himself?
Possible.


Any help appciaed before I agree.

As far as I can make out, all the dangers are at his end of the wire. If
that's what he wants to do and is happy doing it, I'm not sure that it's
your concern. If you provide a conventional extension to the flat upstairs
and he then uses a male-to-male extension lead to power the circuits upstair
then I don't see how you can be held responsible for his actions.

If I were him I'd wire a lead into the CU to power up the circuits upstairs
and plug that into your extension. That way he'd avoid the dangers of
exposed live pins on a male plug.

Tim

Gamma Eridon wrote:
On Nov 28, 9:57 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
"Rod" wrote in message

If he wants to run a heater, I'd be getting very worried about the load
he is intending to put on the cable. You have a socket rated at 13A. If
he tries to run a 3KW heater plus other things, that will overload your
socket (and his plug and, probably, cable). And could be dangerous.
About just enough load to blow the 13 amp fuse.

Rod, this is a spam post. Re read it. It would not fool Baldrick.

Adam

No Adam, im not a spammer.



If you do this and someone gets killed as a result (quite possible) then
prison awaits those responsible......

On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:45:39 -0800 (PST), Gamma Eridon
wrote:

Good Evening,

This is my first post to the group so please be gental :-) sorry for
any spelling mistakes/bad grammer in advance.

I live in a basement flat and above me there is a vacant shop premises
(two rooms) and above that another flat that is rented out.

Anyway the power is not connected at the moment in the shop (I think
the company fuse??) is missing. There is a meter and two cu's (one for
the central heating I guess).

One of the builders tendered want's mains, so this is where my
question begins.

I have mains in my flat (obviousley :-) )

It has been suggested that an extension leed can be used, one end
plugged into a 13a socket in my flat and at the other end a leed made
(with two 13a plugs) one plugged into the extension drum, the other
into one ring main in the shop premises.

Would this work?

What if the are on another phase upstairs?

Any pitfalls I shold look out for? (the builder has promised a tidy
sum for power )

Is it legal?

Is it safe?

Any help appciaed before I agree.

Cheers!


Is there any particular reason why _you_ should supply power for the
use of a builder?

If a builder, or for that matter anybody else (butcher, baker or
candlestick-maker) approaches you and asks if they can plug into one
of your sockets it's entirely up to you to agree or not - remember
it's you that is paying for any energy used...

Anything plugged into your socket (oo-err missus!) would be classed as
an accessory, so it wouldn't come under wiring regulations, but if
the lead ('leed') in your premises was overloaded with an incorrect
choice of fuse in the plug at your end and a fire resulted, you may
have a bit of an argument with your insurance people.

Even if a fire occurred in the shop above due to this arrangement and
there was damage to your flat you might still have a problem with your
insurance.

You say that the builder has promised a 'tidy sum' - he may perhaps
leave a fan-heater on for days on end - consider this :-)

I wonder why the builder doesn't have the power connected and pay the
going rate to the energy company...

--
Frank Erskine

"Gamma Eridon" wrote in message
...
Good Evening,

This is my first post to the group so please be gental :-) sorry for
any spelling mistakes/bad grammer in advance.

I live in a basement flat and above me there is a vacant shop premises
(two rooms) and above that another flat that is rented out.

Anyway the power is not connected at the moment in the shop (I think
the company fuse??) is missing. There is a meter and two cu's (one for
the central heating I guess).

One of the builders tendered want's mains, so this is where my
question begins.

I have mains in my flat (obviousley :-) )

It has been suggested that an extension leed can be used, one end
plugged into a 13a socket in my flat and at the other end a leed made
(with two 13a plugs) one plugged into the extension drum, the other
into one ring main in the shop premises.

Would this work?

What if the are on another phase upstairs?

Any pitfalls I shold look out for? (the builder has promised a tidy
sum for power )

Is it legal?

Is it safe?

Any help appciaed before I agree.

Cheers!

My sparky mate used to work on disconnected council houses, generator
outside, plug to plug extension and power all over the house with no mucking
about with trailing leads.
He's not the sharpest tool in the box (sorry Barry) but he's still alive.
I wouldn't do it though.
Gordy

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 02:12:01 -0000
"Gordy" wrote:

My sparky mate used to work on disconnected council houses, generator
outside, plug to plug extension and power all over the house with no mucking
about with trailing leads.
He's not the sharpest tool in the box (sorry Barry) but he's still alive.

What a pity.
R.

TheOldFellow wrote:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 02:12:01 -0000
"Gordy" wrote:

My sparky mate used to work on disconnected council houses, generator
outside, plug to plug extension and power all over the house with no mucking
about with trailing leads.
He's not the sharpest tool in the box (sorry Barry) but he's still alive.

What a pity.
R.

Rather agree. But it did have the singular advanatge that a gennie makes
some noise and would eventually run out of fuel! A 13A-to-13A plug lead
is silent and would be much more likely to catch the unwary.

If the company fuse is out, there is no certainty whatsoever that the
installation is itself safe in any way. Making it live is simply
queueing for a Darwin award.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Rod" wrote in message
...
TheOldFellow wrote:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 02:12:01 -0000
"Gordy" wrote:

My sparky mate used to work on disconnected council houses, generator
outside, plug to plug extension and power all over the house with no
mucking about with trailing leads.
He's not the sharpest tool in the box (sorry Barry) but he's still
alive.

What a pity.
R.

Rather agree. But it did have the singular advanatge that a gennie makes
some noise and would eventually run out of fuel! A 13A-to-13A plug lead is
silent and would be much more likely to catch the unwary.

If the company fuse is out, there is no certainty whatsoever that the
installation is itself safe in any way. Making it live is simply queueing
for a Darwin award.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

If the fuse is out on the Live (line) conductor (neutral still connected)
and the wiring to this dangerous 13amp plug is back to front then this will
introduce another danger I think.

It has been suggested that an extension leed can be used, one end
plugged into a 13a socket in my flat and at the other end a leed made
(with two 13a plugs) one plugged into the extension drum, the other
into one ring main in the shop premises.

Would this work?


Put one of those £8 RCD plug/sockets at your end before the builder plugs
in -
and test the RCD in your consumer unit by pushing the button...

And get the money up front!

But the builder using extension leads (and not the unknown shop wiring)
would be safer

Im not sure of the problems with having two earths - yours and the one in
the shop

[g]

John wrote:
"Rod" wrote in message
...
TheOldFellow wrote:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 02:12:01 -0000
"Gordy" wrote:

My sparky mate used to work on disconnected council houses, generator
outside, plug to plug extension and power all over the house with no
mucking about with trailing leads.
He's not the sharpest tool in the box (sorry Barry) but he's still
alive.
What a pity.
R.

Rather agree. But it did have the singular advanatge that a gennie makes
some noise and would eventually run out of fuel! A 13A-to-13A plug lead is
silent and would be much more likely to catch the unwary.

If the company fuse is out, there is no certainty whatsoever that the
installation is itself safe in any way. Making it live is simply queueing
for a Darwin award.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

If the fuse is out on the Live (line) conductor (neutral still connected)
and the wiring to this dangerous 13amp plug is back to front then this will
introduce another danger I think.



The happiest Darwin scenario is if no fuses are out and the two flats
are on different phases ;-)

As with ll thee things its a good idea IF you know what is going on and
IF you take teh corret precautions.

Elfin Safety is predicated on the assumption that you are a complete
numpty who must at all costs be protected from your own actions. Or
originally (and with some justification) from your employers greedy
fascist capitalist corner cutting actions. Allegedly. And that
legislation is a substitute for understanding and good safe working
practice.

In article , Owain
writes
Gamma Eridon wrote:
Just to be clear what if both supplies meet via this arangement? not
sure if they are on diffrent phases???

Big flashy bangs, molten copper wires, arcs, burns, fires, destruction
of property, death.

Or the fuse in the plug might just blow.

Yes, I know it could be 415V but I reckon it would clear the fault on a
dead short, zero power factor on an extension lead.

Still a very stupid idea though.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
John wrote:
"Rod" wrote in message
...
TheOldFellow wrote:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 02:12:01 -0000
"Gordy" wrote:

My sparky mate used to work on disconnected council houses, generator
outside, plug to plug extension and power all over the house with no
mucking about with trailing leads.
He's not the sharpest tool in the box (sorry Barry) but he's still
alive.
What a pity.
R.

Rather agree. But it did have the singular advanatge that a gennie makes
some noise and would eventually run out of fuel! A 13A-to-13A plug lead is
silent and would be much more likely to catch the unwary.

If the company fuse is out, there is no certainty whatsoever that the
installation is itself safe in any way. Making it live is simply queueing
for a Darwin award.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

If the fuse is out on the Live (line) conductor (neutral still connected)
and the wiring to this dangerous 13amp plug is back to front then this will
introduce another danger I think.



The happiest Darwin scenario is if no fuses are out and the two flats
are on different phases ;-)

naa, thats a relatively small safety issue. Fuse goes bang, end of.
Both neutrals will be at or very close to 0v.


NT

Tim Downie wrote:
Gamma Eridon wrote:

The only pitfall from your POV is how much power he might draw.

could hardly be more wrong


Is it legal?

Dunno.

And yet you give advice on something that could put the man in prison.


I'm sure it flouts electrical regs but you're hardly going to have
the police banging on your door.

If it goes wong he will.


Is it safe?

Will he burn your house down? Probably not. Might he electrocute himself?
Possible.

Wonder if the insurance would pay out.


Any help appciaed before I agree.

As far as I can make out, all the dangers are at his end of the wire. If

hardly. The risk isnt massive, but yes these things can and do go
wrong.


NT

"Gamma Eridon" wrote in message
...
Good Evening,

This is my first post to the group so please be gental :-) sorry for
any spelling mistakes/bad grammer in advance.

I live in a basement flat and above me there is a vacant shop premises
(two rooms) and above that another flat that is rented out.

Anyway the power is not connected at the moment in the shop (I think
the company fuse??) is missing. There is a meter and two cu's (one for
the central heating I guess).

One of the builders tendered want's mains, so this is where my
question begins.

I have mains in my flat (obviousley :-) )

It has been suggested that an extension leed can be used, one end
plugged into a 13a socket in my flat and at the other end a leed made
(with two 13a plugs) one plugged into the extension drum, the other
into one ring main in the shop premises.

Would this work?

What if the are on another phase upstairs?

Any pitfalls I shold look out for? (the builder has promised a tidy
sum for power )

Is it legal?

Is it safe?

Any help appciaed before I agree.

Cheers!

Get the tight **** builder to get a generator in and do the job properly.

"Gamma Eridon" wrote in message
...
On Nov 28, 9:57 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
"Rod" wrote in message

If he wants to run a heater, I'd be getting very worried about the load
he is intending to put on the cable. You have a socket rated at 13A. If
he tries to run a 3KW heater plus other things, that will overload your
socket (and his plug and, probably, cable). And could be dangerous.

About just enough load to blow the 13 amp fuse.

Rod, this is a spam post. Re read it. It would not fool Baldrick.

Adam

No Adam, im not a spammer.


In which case,

I would offer the builder the use of one 13A extension lead that is fully
unwound and supplied via an RCD supply and state that it must not be used to
power the ring in the shop.

If it only the company fuse that is missing in the shop most electricians
can usually find a spare fuse in their van and the builder could have his
own power. It is only on drug raids that I have seen power totally removed
to the building

Adam

Gamma Eridon wrote:
Good Evening,

This is my first post to the group so please be gental :-) sorry for
any spelling mistakes/bad grammer in advance.

I live in a basement flat and above me there is a vacant shop premises
(two rooms) and above that another flat that is rented out.

Anyway the power is not connected at the moment in the shop (I think
the company fuse??) is missing. There is a meter and two cu's (one for
the central heating I guess).

One of the builders tendered want's mains, so this is where my
question begins.

I have mains in my flat (obviousley :-) )

It has been suggested that an extension leed can be used, one end
plugged into a 13a socket in my flat and at the other end a leed made
(with two 13a plugs) one plugged into the extension drum, the other
into one ring main in the shop premises.

Would this work?

What if the are on another phase upstairs?

Any pitfalls I shold look out for? (the builder has promised a tidy
sum for power )

Is it legal?

Is it safe?

Any help appciaed before I agree.

Cheers!



If the builder intends to run a 3 KW heater 24/7, that would be about
500 units a week.

If your cost is 10p per unit (and it is probably more than that,
possible much more), that would be 50 pounds a week.

Is his offer going to cover your costs? It might sound a lot now...

And would any builder offer any more than necessary? If you are going to
take it up, make sure he raises his offer.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:41:27 -0800 (PST), Gamma Eridon wrote:

On Nov 28, 9:27*pm, Rod wrote:

If he wants to run a heater, I'd be getting very worried about the load
he is intending to put on the cable. You have a socket rated at 13A. If
he tries to run a 3KW heater plus other things, that will overload your
socket (and his plug and, probably, cable). And could be dangerous.

OK, i'n not keen on doing this now, just intresed in technical
details :-)

Heater is apatantlee just a Phillips fan heater by the way.

I don't think I will agree to this plan unless Im sure it is safe!

Others have told you it's a wholly unsafe means of connecting the supply.
Please just take it as such and tell the builder if he wants electricity,
contact the local electricity company and ask for a supply.

I had to attend two or three fatalities where people had been doing
electrically unsafe things. It isn't a nice experience.

--
The Wanderer

A consultant will borrow your watch
Then charge if you ask him the time.

"Owain" wrote in message
et...
Gamma Eridon wrote:
Just to be clear what if both supplies meet via this arangement? not
sure if they are on diffrent phases???

Big flashy bangs, molten copper wires, arcs, burns, fires, destruction of
property,

Is that before or after the fuses in the plugs blow?

death.

Owain

"Gordy" wrote in message
...

"Gamma Eridon" wrote in message
...
Good Evening,

This is my first post to the group so please be gental :-) sorry for
any spelling mistakes/bad grammer in advance.

I live in a basement flat and above me there is a vacant shop premises
(two rooms) and above that another flat that is rented out.

Anyway the power is not connected at the moment in the shop (I think
the company fuse??) is missing. There is a meter and two cu's (one for
the central heating I guess).

One of the builders tendered want's mains, so this is where my
question begins.

I have mains in my flat (obviousley :-) )

It has been suggested that an extension leed can be used, one end
plugged into a 13a socket in my flat and at the other end a leed made
(with two 13a plugs) one plugged into the extension drum, the other
into one ring main in the shop premises.

Would this work?

What if the are on another phase upstairs?

Any pitfalls I shold look out for? (the builder has promised a tidy
sum for power )

Is it legal?

Is it safe?

Any help appciaed before I agree.

Cheers!

My sparky mate used to work on disconnected council houses, generator
outside, plug to plug extension and power all over the house with no
mucking about with trailing leads.
He's not the sharpest tool in the box (sorry Barry) but he's still alive.
I wouldn't do it though.

I might, but I would make a metal bracket to screw the plug into the socket
so the pins can never become live and unshielded.
However its probably easier to wire the lead into the consumer unit where
the feeders usually go and it is a lot safer.

Gordy

"The Wanderer" wrote in message
.. .


I had to attend two or three fatalities where people had been doing
electrically unsafe things. It isn't a nice experience.

Two or three?
I think I would know exactly how many.

On Nov 29, 11:09*am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Elfin Safety is predicated on the assumption that you are a complete
numpty who must at all costs be protected from your own actions. Or
originally (and with some justification) from your employers greedy
fascist capitalist corner cutting actions. Allegedly. *And that
legislation is a substitute for understanding and good safe working
practice

Actually, the Health and Safety at Work Acts themselves don't regard
legislation as a substitute for understanding and good working
practise - in fact understanding and good working practise is what
they mandate. The problem is that what they also require is some
thought, and a large number of people seem to find this difficult.
The acts thus become an excuse for jobsworths to say "No".

wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:
Gamma Eridon wrote:

The only pitfall from your POV is how much power he might draw.

could hardly be more wrong

Alright, what's the worse case senario for the OP? Blown fuse? The OP isn't
responsible for any idiocy that the builder might get up to.


Is it legal?

Dunno.

And yet you give advice on something that could put the man in prison.


I'm sure it flouts electrical regs but you're hardly going to have
the police banging on your door.

If it goes wong he will.

The *builder* might, not the OP.

Is it safe?

Will he burn your house down? Probably not. Might he electrocute
himself? Possible.

Wonder if the insurance would pay out.


Any help appciaed before I agree.

As far as I can make out, all the dangers are at his end of the
wire. If

hardly. The risk isnt massive, but yes these things can and do go
wrong.

Okay, you tell me what might happen at the *OPs* end of the wire other than
a blown fuse.

Tim

fred wrote:
In article , Owain
writes
Gamma Eridon wrote:
Just to be clear what if both supplies meet via this arangement? not
sure if they are on diffrent phases???

Big flashy bangs, molten copper wires, arcs, burns, fires, destruction
of property, death.

Or the fuse in the plug might just blow.

Yes, I know it could be 415V but I reckon it would clear the fault on a
dead short, zero power factor on an extension lead.

Still a very stupid idea though.

If its done by a stupid person its a stupid idea, if done by a clever
person its a clever idea.

When I were a 'prentice at the Marconi company, the required service
tool for the high power Magnetron racks, was a sixpenny piece, that
allowed the microswitch that cut the lethal HT to the thing when the
door was opened, to be jammed on.

You couldn't service/test them without it.

wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
John wrote:
"Rod" wrote in message
...
TheOldFellow wrote:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 02:12:01 -0000
"Gordy" wrote:

My sparky mate used to work on disconnected council houses, generator
outside, plug to plug extension and power all over the house with no
mucking about with trailing leads.
He's not the sharpest tool in the box (sorry Barry) but he's still
alive.
What a pity.
R.

Rather agree. But it did have the singular advanatge that a gennie makes
some noise and would eventually run out of fuel! A 13A-to-13A plug lead is
silent and would be much more likely to catch the unwary.

If the company fuse is out, there is no certainty whatsoever that the
installation is itself safe in any way. Making it live is simply queueing
for a Darwin award.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org
If the fuse is out on the Live (line) conductor (neutral still connected)
and the wiring to this dangerous 13amp plug is back to front then this will
introduce another danger I think.



The happiest Darwin scenario is if no fuses are out and the two flats
are on different phases ;-)

naa, thats a relatively small safety issue. Fuse goes bang, end of.
Both neutrals will be at or very close to 0v.


If they haven't cross wired the rings!
This is a competition to find the 'chernobyl' combination of utter
stupidity and failure to follow procedure, and get the worst result.


NT

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:08:37 -0000, dennis@home wrote:

"The Wanderer" wrote in message
.. .


I had to attend two or three fatalities where people had been doing
electrically unsafe things. It isn't a nice experience.

Two or three?
I think I would know exactly how many.

Two were electrical, one was a sparky with many years experience trying to
complete work at the distribution point of a small industrial unit whilst
keeping supply on so the place could keep working.

Another was a householder who chopped through the cable on his lawnmower
and apparently picked up the ends of the cable without first switching off.

Both of which prove that people really do the most stupid things, and which
could apply in the scenario under discussion.

The third was presumed electrical until the fire brigade could recover the
body when it was found to be non-electrical.

A fourth, which wasn't at all relevant to this discussion was some
contractors moving equipment at a grain store using a fork lift, straight
into an 11kv o/h line.

Oh and that has excluded the couple of times I had to visit fire scenes to
try and ascertain if there was an electrical cause.

None of them were pleasant experiences.

Have I made myself clear enough now?

--
The Wanderer

The older I get the better I used to be!

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 23:29:07 -0000, Tim Downie wrote:

Okay, you tell me what might happen at the *OPs* end of the wire other than
a blown fuse.

Very little, except he 'could' have a fatality on his conscience, not to
mention a prosecution.

It's a stupid idea and needs stopping now, without further pointless
ramblings from people who think they know better.

--
The Wanderer

Caffeine isn't addictive as long as you keep taking it.

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 08:04:05 +0000 someone who may be The Wanderer
wrote this:-

Another was a householder who chopped through the cable on his lawnmower
and apparently picked up the ends of the cable without first switching off.

A classic. People who survive say that they picked up the ends to
look at the damage, the fact that the cable was energised having
either been forgotten or they thought that the bang meant the supply
had been cut off by the fuse/MCB.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

The Wanderer wrote:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:08:37 -0000, dennis@home wrote:

"The Wanderer" wrote in message
.. .


I had to attend two or three fatalities where people had been doing
electrically unsafe things. It isn't a nice experience.
Two or three?
I think I would know exactly how many.

Two were electrical, one was a sparky with many years experience trying to
complete work at the distribution point of a small industrial unit whilst
keeping supply on so the place could keep working.

Another was a householder who chopped through the cable on his lawnmower
and apparently picked up the ends of the cable without first switching off.

Both of which prove that people really do the most stupid things, and which
could apply in the scenario under discussion.

The third was presumed electrical until the fire brigade could recover the
body when it was found to be non-electrical.

A fourth, which wasn't at all relevant to this discussion was some
contractors moving equipment at a grain store using a fork lift, straight
into an 11kv o/h line.

Oh and that has excluded the couple of times I had to visit fire scenes to
try and ascertain if there was an electrical cause.

None of them were pleasant experiences.

Have I made myself clear enough now?

Well I have seen..two fatalities from road accidents.


Should we advise people that driving cars is really stupid and dangerous?