In article ,
George \(dicegeorge\) wrote:
EMAIL JUST RECEIVED...

George

Repair and maintenance are generally exempt from building regulations,
however the widening of the opening may reduce the structural stability
of any existing lintol, or make it necessary to install a new lintol.
If the works are structural, then the building regulations would apply.

If you have any doubt, I would be able to carry out a quick check when I
am in the area. Please give me a ring to arrange if necessary.

xx Senior Building Control Surveyor xxx Council

You'd think a BCO would know how to spell lintel...

--
*There's two theories to arguing with a woman. Neither one works *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Bruce wrote:
... that clearly implies that you think the OP can get away with it.

No - while it's in this exposed state it makes sense to do the paperwork
correctly.


This appears to suggest that the OP should cover it up quickly and say
absolutely nothing.


FFS - the OP isn't doing the work. His builder is.

--
*Honk if you love peace and quiet.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
George \(dicegeorge\) wrote:
EMAIL JUST RECEIVED...

George

Repair and maintenance are generally exempt from building regulations,
however the widening of the opening may reduce the structural stability
of any existing lintol, or make it necessary to install a new lintol.
If the works are structural, then the building regulations would apply.

If you have any doubt, I would be able to carry out a quick check when I
am in the area. Please give me a ring to arrange if necessary.

xx Senior Building Control Surveyor xxx Council

You'd think a BCO would know how to spell lintel...

Isn't that one of 'those' words, the ones where those within the
industry spell them differently to everyone else? Like sill/cill. I
remember several such words the first time I was involved with plans.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

In article ,
Rod wrote:
You'd think a BCO would know how to spell lintel...

Isn't that one of 'those' words, the ones where those within the
industry spell them differently to everyone else? Like sill/cill. I
remember several such words the first time I was involved with plans.

I've got lots of plans for the mods to this place - and engineers
calculations. But can't remember it being spelt that way. 'Cill' yes.

--
*Snowmen fall from Heaven unassembled*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,

So are you suggesting that the OP should
proceed without building control approval?

Absolutely not. Just don't believe all the scare stories about it making
insurance invalid or the house unsaleable if all that is wrong with the
work is a lack of the correct paperwork.

Not every time, no. But I have had enough distraught people on the phone
asking for me to move heaven and earth to give them a Regularisation
certificate on the day they were due to exchange contracts to know it is
possible.

Anyway, how is a surveyor supposed to know from a visual inspection that
the only thing wrong is the lack of paperwork? It could also be a lack
of lintel.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed"?

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod wrote:
You'd think a BCO would know how to spell lintel...

Isn't that one of 'those' words, the ones where those within the
industry spell them differently to everyone else? Like sill/cill. I
remember several such words the first time I was involved with plans.

I've got lots of plans for the mods to this place - and engineers
calculations. But can't remember it being spelt that way. 'Cill' yes.

Of course what I meant was I remember there being several such terms -
but can't remember what they were!

Just found this:

"Lintol is the traditional Scots building term."
http://www.maintainyourchurch.org.uk/Toolkits/Toolkit1Glossary/tabid/54/Filter/L/Default.aspx

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Rod wrote:
You'd think a BCO would know how to spell lintel...

Isn't that one of 'those' words, the ones where those within the
industry spell them differently to everyone else? Like sill/cill. I
remember several such words the first time I was involved with plans.

I've got lots of plans for the mods to this place - and engineers
calculations. But can't remember it being spelt that way. 'Cill' yes.


It's the spelling used by our artichokes on the ongoing Western Wing
addition to Lowe Towers.

May be regional.

--
Ron

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Rod wrote:
You'd think a BCO would know how to spell lintel...

Isn't that one of 'those' words, the ones where those within the
industry spell them differently to everyone else? Like sill/cill. I
remember several such words the first time I was involved with plans.

I've got lots of plans for the mods to this place - and engineers
calculations. But can't remember it being spelt that way. 'Cill' yes.


Lintol is an old fashioned spelling.

Some people still use it - perhaps it is just an affectation on the
part of some architects but I have seen it on several architects'
drawings in the last couple of years.

Also, the construction materials company Ibstock seems to use that
spelling as a default:

http://www.ibstock.com/pdfs/get-it-r...etitright8.pdf

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 17:58:52 +0100, Rod
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
George \(dicegeorge\) wrote:
EMAIL JUST RECEIVED...

George

Repair and maintenance are generally exempt from building regulations,
however the widening of the opening may reduce the structural stability
of any existing lintol, or make it necessary to install a new lintol.
If the works are structural, then the building regulations would apply.

If you have any doubt, I would be able to carry out a quick check when I
am in the area. Please give me a ring to arrange if necessary.

xx Senior Building Control Surveyor xxx Council

You'd think a BCO would know how to spell lintel...

Isn't that one of 'those' words, the ones where those within the
industry spell them differently to everyone else? Like sill/cill. I
remember several such words the first time I was involved with plans.

The letter was probably draughted by a junior admin type and merely
signed by the SBCS (or a scanned signature was used!).

--
Frank Erskine

On Oct 8, 12:46*am, wrote:
On 7 Oct, *
* * *Frank Erskine wrote:

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 17:58:52 +0100, Rod
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
You'd think a BCO would know how to spell lintel...

Isn't that one of 'those' words, the ones where those within the
industry spell them differently to everyone else? Like sill/cill. I
remember several such words the first time I was involved with plans.

The letter was probably draughted by a junior admin type and merely
signed by the SBCS (or a scanned signature was used!).

It *is* one of those words with alternative spellings, mainly used in the
building trade. Lintol is often seen as an alternative spelling.

--
* B Thumbs
* Change lycos to yahoo to reply

Just cannot resist still showing what a knowall **** you are can you.
Brian, when are you going to realise I aint going away.
Still waiting Brian ****.
FFS Brian do the right thing.

Thanbks everyone for your advice:

The BCO came yesterday
and agreed with me that the beam wasnt safe.

The builders started inserting blocks under it today.

Luckily they gave me a quote and I havent paid them yet.

The boss blamed his workers,
but he should have checked and known that a wooden padstone wasnt good
enough...

--

[george]


~ ~


"Bruce" wrote in message
...
"George \(dicegeorge\)" wrote:
EMAIL JUST RECEIVED...

George

Repair and maintenance are generally exempt from building regulations,
however the widening of the opening may reduce the structural stability of
any existing lintol, or make it necessary to install a new lintol. If the
works are structural, then the building regulations would apply.

If you have any doubt, I would be able to carry out a quick check when I
am
in the area. Please give me a ring to arrange if necessary.

xx
Senior Building Control Surveyor
xxx Council


Give the man a call. Don't delay.

On Oct 3, 11:45*pm, "Steve Walker" wrote:
George (dicegeorge) wrote:
New Metal Beam Safe?

I would value your opinion on whether the new metal beam
which some builders put into my kitchen today is safe.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2cmsvvd&s=4

I'm no expert but it looks a foot too short to me,
and I fear that because it is on one end of a concrete block
it put a huge cracking force on the right of the block
and crack the block...

Looks fine to me - They'll fill the gap to the wall below with brick, slate
and/or dry-packed mortar, and the load will be spread more evenly then.

--
Criticising the government is not illegal, but on investigation often
turns out to be linked to other offences



Nobody has asked the question: who specified the lintel? Whenever
I've had this kind of thing done (ony twice) I've had an engineer in
to calculate the loads and specify the type and size of beam. the BCO
has wanted to see the calculation or at least to know who did it.

With regard to how the buyer's surveyor would know the doorway had
been widened: these people are usually familiar with many houses in
eth area. If there are other houses of the same type nearby he will
know what the original design was becuase he has surveyed lots of them
in the past.
Robert

In article
,
RobertL wrote:
Nobody has asked the question: who specified the lintel? Whenever
I've had this kind of thing done (ony twice) I've had an engineer in
to calculate the loads and specify the type and size of beam. the BCO
has wanted to see the calculation or at least to know who did it.

In most houses for most door openings or windows a pre-stressed concrete
beam is way over specified anyway.

--
*If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article
,
RobertL wrote:
Nobody has asked the question: who specified the lintel? Whenever
I've had this kind of thing done (ony twice) I've had an engineer in
to calculate the loads and specify the type and size of beam. the BCO
has wanted to see the calculation or at least to know who did it.

In most houses for most door openings or windows a pre-stressed concrete
beam is way over specified anyway.


The metal beam in question looks ridiculously over-sized unless there
are several stories above, or some very large floor spans in the upper
floors.

The real issues are its bearing and the ability of the remaining
brickwork to support the loads from above. All these aspects need to
be checked by a suitably qualified professional.

(and no, I am not offering!)

The metal beam in question looks ridiculously over-sized unless there
are several stories above, or some very large floor spans in the upper
floors.


yes,
I'm pretty sure the metal is overstrong,
and yes the brickwork underneath is being improved..

On top of the beam is another storey
and then the lead roof valley
which holds up half of each of two roofs..

[george]

"George \(dicegeorge\)" wrote:

The metal beam in question looks ridiculously over-sized unless there
are several stories above, or some very large floor spans in the upper
floors.


yes,
I'm pretty sure the metal is overstrong,
and yes the brickwork underneath is being improved..

On top of the beam is another storey
and then the lead roof valley
which holds up half of each of two roofs..


So do you now have Building Control approval, or not?

So do you now have Building Control approval, or not?

I've filled in the form at the council and paid a cheque for building
control,
when the builders say they've finished he'll come again
and if he approves it I will pay the builders their initial quote price.
That's how it's done, isn't it?
(but I wish they'd done it right first time).

[g]

"George \(dicegeorge\)" wrote:

So do you now have Building Control approval, or not?

I've filled in the form at the council and paid a cheque for building
control,
when the builders say they've finished he'll come again
and if he approves it I will pay the builders their initial quote price.
That's how it's done, isn't it?
(but I wish they'd done it right first time).


Well done! Not an easy situation to resolve, but you've done it.

I'm impressed. Respect! ;-)

Bruce writ:


Well done! Not an easy situation to resolve, but you've done it.


But i've lost the trust of the builders,
so probably must find others to do the next beam -

I said to the brickie:
'when you told me it was finished
were you lying
or were you incompetent and unable to see that it was unsafe?'

(Occam's razor?)

he blames the boss, the boss blames him...

but the job theyre doing now should last a hundred years,
i'll post photos when its all done...

George (dicegeorge) wrote:
Bruce writ:


Well done! Not an easy situation to resolve, but you've done it.


But i've lost the trust of the builders,
so probably must find others to do the next beam -

I said to the brickie:
'when you told me it was finished
were you lying
or were you incompetent and unable to see that it was unsafe?'

(Occam's razor?)

he blames the boss, the boss blames him...

but the job theyre doing now should last a hundred years,
i'll post photos when its all done...





What did you actually ask the builders to do?

It seems to me that if you just asked for the work, then it was probably
down to you to decide on specification, notification, etc. But if it was
more of a 'tell me what is required and do it' then it looks to be more
their problem.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Rod" wrote in message
...
George (dicegeorge) wrote:
Bruce writ:


Well done! Not an easy situation to resolve, but you've done it.


But i've lost the trust of the builders,
so probably must find others to do the next beam -

I said to the brickie:
'when you told me it was finished
were you lying
or were you incompetent and unable to see that it was unsafe?'

(Occam's razor?)

he blames the boss, the boss blames him...

but the job theyre doing now should last a hundred years,
i'll post photos when its all done...





What did you actually ask the builders to do?

It seems to me that if you just asked for the work, then it was probably
down to you to decide on specification, notification, etc. But if it was
more of a 'tell me what is required and do it' then it looks to be more
their problem.

If they did it it was their problem.
If you ask them to do something that they knew was unsafe and they do it it
is their problem.
If a professional asks them to do it and they think its unsafe it is still
their problem unless they query it first (in writing if I were them).
You cannot just ignore a safety issue and claim its not your problem
anymore.

Rod wrote:

George (dicegeorge) wrote:
Bruce writ:


Well done! Not an easy situation to resolve, but you've done it.


But i've lost the trust of the builders,
so probably must find others to do the next beam -

I said to the brickie:
'when you told me it was finished
were you lying
or were you incompetent and unable to see that it was unsafe?'

(Occam's razor?)

he blames the boss, the boss blames him...

but the job theyre doing now should last a hundred years,
i'll post photos when its all done...





What did you actually ask the builders to do?

It seems to me that if you just asked for the work, then it was probably
down to you to decide on specification, notification, etc. But if it was
more of a 'tell me what is required and do it' then it looks to be more
their problem.


The builder has a duty of care. There's no escaping it.

Bruce wrote:
Rod wrote:

George (dicegeorge) wrote:
Bruce writ:

Well done! Not an easy situation to resolve, but you've done it.

But i've lost the trust of the builders,
so probably must find others to do the next beam -

I said to the brickie:
'when you told me it was finished
were you lying
or were you incompetent and unable to see that it was unsafe?'

(Occam's razor?)

he blames the boss, the boss blames him...

but the job theyre doing now should last a hundred years,
i'll post photos when its all done...



What did you actually ask the builders to do?

It seems to me that if you just asked for the work, then it was probably
down to you to decide on specification, notification, etc. But if it was
more of a 'tell me what is required and do it' then it looks to be more
their problem.


The builder has a duty of care. There's no escaping it.


I do agree - but I am trying to understand how the situation came about.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Rod wrote:
Bruce wrote:

The builder has a duty of care. There's no escaping it.


I do agree - but I am trying to understand how the situation came about.


A cowboy contractor took advantage of a non-expert client.

It probably happens thousands of times every day of the week.

In message , "George (dicegeorge)"
wrote




So do you now have Building Control approval, or not?

I've filled in the form at the council and paid a cheque for building
control,
when the builders say they've finished he'll come again
and if he approves it I will pay the builders their initial quote price.
That's how it's done, isn't it?
(but I wish they'd done it right first time).


It may be wise to photograph the work before it is hidden with
plastering.

--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

In article ,
Alan wrote:
In message , "George (dicegeorge)"
wrote




So do you now have Building Control approval, or not?

I've filled in the form at the council and paid a cheque for building
control,
when the builders say they've finished he'll come again
and if he approves it I will pay the builders their initial quote price.
That's how it's done, isn't it?
(but I wish they'd done it right first time).


It may be wise to photograph the work before it is hidden with
plastering.

If the BCO is involved he'll want to see it before this. They weren't born
yesterday.

--
*Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter since nobody listens*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Frank Erskine wrote:

The letter was probably draughted by a junior admin type and merely
signed by the SBCS (or a scanned signature was used!).

You obviously don't know how Local Authorities work. Admin's time is
much to valuable to spend it on doing admin for the surveyors.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed"?

Hugo Nebula wrote:

You obviously don't know how Local Authorities work. Admin's time is
much to valuable to spend it on doing admin for the surveyors.
^^
Yes, I know. Sorry!

--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed"?