I know this isn't the place but I just want some experience from
others.....

Twice recently I have become aware that patients have been *bumped* off
a waiting list and had to restart.

The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters
detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!

Is this common or is paranoia contagious?

regards
--
Tim Lamb

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
I know this isn't the place but I just want some experience from
others.....

Twice recently I have become aware that patients have been *bumped* off a
waiting list and had to restart.

The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters
detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!

Is this common or is paranoia contagious?

Its common.
It keeps the waiting lists down.

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
I know this isn't the place but I just want some experience from
others.....

Twice recently I have become aware that patients have been *bumped* off a
waiting list and had to restart.

The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters
detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!

Is this common or is paranoia contagious?

regards
--
Tim Lamb

And when you do go to an appointment you have to wait in a huge queue, for
hours, usually in front of a notice telling you how so much time is wasted
by people who do not turn up for appointments. Hmm seems to me it's the
people who do turn up that usually have their time wasted!

S

Spamlet wrote:
"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
I know this isn't the place but I just want some experience from
others.....

Twice recently I have become aware that patients have been *bumped* off a
waiting list and had to restart.

The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters
detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!

Is this common or is paranoia contagious?

regards
--
Tim Lamb

And when you do go to an appointment you have to wait in a huge queue, for
hours, usually in front of a notice telling you how so much time is wasted
by people who do not turn up for appointments. Hmm seems to me it's the
people who do turn up that usually have their time wasted!

S

And if you try to ring up to reschedule an appointment you get an
answering machine - the relevant person is on holiday until after the
appointment. And no matter how many times you try to get through the
switchboard (to someone who is not on holiday) you end up in a
completely inappropriate department with someone who cannot help. Well,
that has been our experience this week!

Compounded by the fact that every clinic, every department, every
hospital appears to have a different system.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 21:27:30 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:

The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters
detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!

Does the letter ask for a response? If it does and people don't respond
then that is just tough.

What makes me laugh is the implied precision that my facture clinic
"appointments" have. The first was 14:30, when I get the next one it's
14:36 and the next is 13:57. Now I'm used to keeping times to the minute,
if they say 14:36 I'll be at that reception desk at 14:36 and I expect
them to be ready for me as well. Well I can but wish...

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
I know this isn't the place but I just want some experience from
others.....

Twice recently I have become aware that patients have been *bumped* off a
waiting list and had to restart.

The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters
detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!

Is this common or is paranoia contagious?

Believe me, it is far worse if the consultant looks at you and says I'm
booking you into theatre tomorrow morning. As it happens, one of the others
in the waiting room had been called in early due to an unexpected vacancy on
the theatre list, so nobody had to be bumped to make room for me, but I have
no doubt they would have been, if that had been the only option.

Colin Bignell

Tim Lamb wrote:
I know this isn't the place but I just want some experience from
others.....

Twice recently I have become aware that patients have been *bumped*
off a waiting list and had to restart.

The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters
detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!

Is this common or is paranoia contagious?

Its called 'hitting the target & missing the point'.

The media publicise a 'scandal' involving a service. A politician 'solves'
the problem by setting targets, but without allocating any extra funding.
The target is therefore impossible to meet, so the figures get fudged.

Two examples;

Our local GP's surgery has a target that 'no patient will wait more than two
days to see a GP'. So, you ring on a Monday morning at 8:30, the phone is
permanently engaged until 9:00 when a helpful answerphone takes over.

Assuming you do get through, you might ('might') get an appointment that day
or next day. If a next day appointment isn't available, you are told you
must ring tomorrow. Should you suggest that Thursday would be fine, as the
matter is not life threatening, you will be told that you can't book a
Thursday appointment on a Monday, you have to ring on Thursday.

If you are suitably 'assertive' (read nasty *******) and insist, they will
reluctantly accept the appointment, but you do have to be really assertive.
I've used phrases like "I'm not interested in your idiotic targets, do you
have a diary in front of you"?

Nobody is actually seen any earlier, but the target has been achieved.

Next example, the London Ambulance Service for whom my daughter works in a
front line capacity. The Govmint target for a Cat A (life threatening) call
is 75% attendance in 8 minutes. That's 8 minutes from the time the call is
received, not the time the address is confirmed from the often
(understandably) panicking, emotional or sometimes drunken caller.

In central London, especially at rush hour, this isn't easy to achieve. The
response by the LAS management is to invest in FRU's (fast response units)
which consist of a single crew in a car (or even motorcycle). They carry a
comprehensive range of kit, but not as much as an ambulance, and they can't
transport a patient to A&E.

80% of the time the attending FRU will bring in an ambulance to take the
patient to A&E because if a problem were to occur later, LAS management
don't back up their staff, so the crews have to cover their arse.

This of course involves two vehicles & three crew instead of one vehicle &
two crew. Apart from that, if the FRU arrives in over 8 minutes & the
patient lives, its a failure. If the FRU arrives in under 8 minutes and the
patient dies, that's a success - because the target has been achieved. Not
a success for the patient obviously.

Not to mention the risks involved in a lone female paramedic attending a
stabbing outside a nightclub in Thamesmead at 1am.

Waiting lists were just the start IMO.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Does the letter ask for a response? If it does and people don't respond
then that is just tough.

Nah, it's a scam - my neighbour has had to chase up appointments that
never arrived to be told she's now back of the queue because they
allege to have sent one.

My wife and I sat waiting over two years for IVF because they'd
"lost" us in the system - we should have had the appointment by their
own reckoning within 6 months (they even told us that).

On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 21:53:50 UTC, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

What makes me laugh is the implied precision that my facture clinic
"appointments" have. The first was 14:30, when I get the next one it's
14:36 and the next is 13:57. Now I'm used to keeping times to the minute,
if they say 14:36 I'll be at that reception desk at 14:36 and I expect
them to be ready for me as well. Well I can but wish...

Ha! I recently received a letter telling me of my next appointment for
laser treatment on the malignant melanoma in my eye. This is 'day
surgery' - takes about 20 minutes sitting down in front of the usual
slit lamp while the consultant pulses the laser. Then I walk out and go
home.

Last time I was there he was fulminating about the hospital appointments
system and its inflexibility; I had a taste of it with the latest
letter....

I should attend the day surgery ward at 0730. I should not eat or drink
for the previous eight hours. I should not take any of my usual
medication. I should....and so it goes on. Then I am warned that if I am
late, my bed will be given to someone else. I should bring a change of
clothes, pyjamas, etc.

The consultant says that their system simply can't cope with this sort
of day surgery...I went for a checkup in a different building last week
and I managed to find one of the day surgery nurses, who said that the
consultant himself is not scheduled to arrive until 1000. I needn't
arrive any earlier, and the rest of the letter is nonsense too. I double
checked this with someone else, too.

Oh well....
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In message , Tim Lamb
writes
I know this isn't the place but I just want some experience from
others.....

Twice recently I have become aware that patients have been *bumped* off
a waiting list and had to restart.

The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters
detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!

Is this common or is paranoia contagious?

regards

My missus works in the admissions (non clinical, purely clerical) part
of an NHS hospital.

What you describe is fairly common. Actually it is par for the course.

How about this (paraphrased but generally true).....

Manager: Right, we're about to exceed government targets on waiting
times in the "xxxxx" clinical speciality. Ring the first 100 people on
the waiting list and offer them surgery this afternoon (knowing full
well there is no capacity for surgery that afternoon).

Missus: Whoah, people need some notice to arrange time off
work/childcare etc. It's not fair to offer them surgery in two hours
time. Most people would have to say "no" to the offer.

Manager: Exactly, and when they say "no", they have declined an
appointment so they drop to the bottom of the list and we don't breach
targets because the clock is reset.

Missus: But what about the few who might say "yes".

Manager: Call them back an hour later and say you've made a mistake.
We're not looking for people to say "yes", we're looking for 118 to say
"no". Keep ringing until you've found them.

That's how it works.

My missus refuses to do it, she says it is immoral and she won't be part
of it. It has probably put black marks on her record, but good on her
for standing up to it.

I think your "paranoia" radar is likely spot on.
Someone

"somebody" wrote in message
...
In message , Tim Lamb
writes
I know this isn't the place but I just want some experience from
others.....

Twice recently I have become aware that patients have been *bumped* off a
waiting list and had to restart.

The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters
detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!

Is this common or is paranoia contagious?

regards

My missus works in the admissions (non clinical, purely clerical) part of
an NHS hospital.

snipped

I trust you have written to your MP about this - using your real name of
course

somebody wrote:
In message , Tim Lamb
writes
I know this isn't the place but I just want some experience from
others.....

Twice recently I have become aware that patients have been *bumped*
off a waiting list and had to restart.

The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters
detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!

Is this common or is paranoia contagious?

regards

My missus works in the admissions (non clinical, purely clerical) part
of an NHS hospital.

What you describe is fairly common. Actually it is par for the course.

How about this (paraphrased but generally true).....

Manager: Right, we're about to exceed government targets on waiting
times in the "xxxxx" clinical speciality. Ring the first 100 people on
the waiting list and offer them surgery this afternoon (knowing full
well there is no capacity for surgery that afternoon).

Missus: Whoah, people need some notice to arrange time off
work/childcare etc. It's not fair to offer them surgery in two hours
time. Most people would have to say "no" to the offer.

Manager: Exactly, and when they say "no", they have declined an
appointment so they drop to the bottom of the list and we don't breach
targets because the clock is reset.

Missus: But what about the few who might say "yes".

Manager: Call them back an hour later and say you've made a mistake.
We're not looking for people to say "yes", we're looking for 118 to say
"no". Keep ringing until you've found them.

That's how it works.

My missus refuses to do it, she says it is immoral and she won't be part
of it. It has probably put black marks on her record, but good on her
for standing up to it.

I think your "paranoia" radar is likely spot on.
Someone

Last I was reading the 'official' guidelines, I am pretty sure they said
that there was a minimum warning period for things like this. So
declining a slot offered at very short notice would not count against
the patient. However, I am not sure if these were local or national
rules so it is difficult for me to verify.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Spamlet wrote:
"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
I know this isn't the place but I just want some experience from
others.....

Twice recently I have become aware that patients have been *bumped* off a
waiting list and had to restart.

The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters
detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!

Is this common or is paranoia contagious?

regards
--
Tim Lamb

And when you do go to an appointment you have to wait in a huge queue, for
hours, usually in front of a notice telling you how so much time is wasted
by people who do not turn up for appointments. Hmm seems to me it's the
people who do turn up that usually have their time wasted!

S



A couple of weeks ago I had a sudden bout of S & D (sat on pan, bowl on
lap, you don't need a picture) and called a doctor. He arrived within 20
minutes, poked and prodded, and decreed that I needed an ultrasound
scan. I walked to the clinic, a few minutes away, had the scan within an
hour, saw a consultant 30 mins later, and a surgeon at the same time.
The diagnosis was surgery not required, but was handed medication on the
spot. The whole lot cost me four quid.

The location of this medical utopia: Yambol, Bulgaria.

--

Keith

mike wrote:
Just to OT this OT, the dental system is no better. The NHS dental
charges are now higher that some "private" dental plans! The fees have
been skillfully set by those Whitehall folk. Thanks Maggy - for
training up Blair so well! Just one filling now costs ~£40++ on the
NHS!

My better half had new dentures top and bottom, and a three crowns, no
waiting, finished in a week, from an english trained dentist, 80 quid
all in. I love this backward, third world country.

--
Keith
Yambol, Bulgaria





I had cause to visit NHS direct a while ago and waited 6 hours to be
seen! (This was after some sheer butchery by a dentist trained in
Portugal - the only one I could get to see when my dentist retired).
The Indian-Brit who sorted me out was 1st class - very skillful and a
credit to his profession. Anyway, the NHS dental emergency place was
full and if you haven't had the experience of sitting in one of these
halls-of-pain I can tell you it's like something out of Dickens. Ok
the decor. is wonderful and the staff do their best (damn good people
most of them). But the sheer overload is unbelievable. And the pain so
many peiple are going though beggers belief. I know it's not usually
life-threatening but still, it really is grim.
Let's get an more admininstrators and pay them £££ - NOT!

somebody wrote:


My missus refuses to do it, she says it is immoral and she won't be
part of it. It has probably put black marks on her record, but good
on her for standing up to it.

All credit to your missus. Thats the trouble, arsehole managers.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"keith" wrote in message
...



A couple of weeks ago I had a sudden bout of S & D (sat on pan, bowl on
lap, you don't need a picture) and called a doctor. He arrived within 20
minutes, poked and prodded, and decreed that I needed an ultrasound scan.
I walked to the clinic, a few minutes away, had the scan within an hour,
saw a consultant 30 mins later, and a surgeon at the same time. The
diagnosis was surgery not required, but was handed medication on the spot.
The whole lot cost me four quid.


Why would any trained doctor think you needed a scan just because you had
S&D?
There are many viruses going around that cause just that.

It wasn't that bad either if you managed a few minutes walk to the clinic.

It would have been free in the UK as the treatment is rest, no food and
plenty to drink.

If it persists then further investigation may be required, which is also
free.

The one thing the NHS is good at is treating acute problems.
I went to see the doc with stomach pains, was in an ambulance ten minutes
later and had my appendix removed within two hours. I had a (damn
uncomfortable) tube hanging out my abdomen for a week after to get rid of
the infection. Guess what, it was free.

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
I know this isn't the place but I just want some experience from
others.....

Twice recently I have become aware that patients have been *bumped* off a
waiting list and had to restart.

The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters
detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!

Is this common or is paranoia contagious?

None of what I've read here has accorded with our experiences of the NHS.

We've had excellent service, in what we consider acceptable waiting times.
Appointments at all levels have been well timed and we've had enough time to
discuss our cases properly. The only time there was what I considered an
excessive lack of urgency was because Spouse didn't think it was necessary
to give all his medical details. Once I intervened the treatment was swift
and effective.

A lot of responsibility rests with the patient.

And if you don't like what your get you can, as others have pointed out, go
elsewhere - but not all experiences of foreign medical treatments are ideal.

Mary

"keith" wrote in message
...


My better half had new dentures top and bottom, and a three crowns, no
waiting, finished in a week, from an english trained dentist, 80 quid all
in. I love this backward, third world country.

Keith
Yambol, Bulgaria

Bulgaria is not a third world country by any sensible definition.

On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 07:25:21 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

My missus refuses to do it, she says it is immoral and she won't be
part of it. It has probably put black marks on her record, but good
on her for standing up to it.

All credit to your missus.

Hear, hear. This sort of waiting list target fudging needs to be blown
open and stopped. Any one with evidence needs to rattle a few cages where
it matters like their MP. Find your MPs contact details from:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

No point in rattling the cages of the head honchos in the relevant NHS
Trust, they have a vested interest in meeting the targets as well.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sep 2, 11:56*pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
I know this isn't the place but I just want some experience from
others.....

Twice recently I have become aware that patients have been *bumped*
off a waiting list and had to restart.

The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters
detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!

Is this common or is paranoia contagious?

Its called 'hitting the target & missing the point'.

The media publicise a 'scandal' involving a service. *A politician 'solves'
the problem by setting targets, but without allocating any extra funding.
The target is therefore impossible to meet, so the figures get fudged.

Two examples;

Our local GP's surgery has a target that 'no patient will wait more than two
days to see a GP'. *So, you ring on a Monday morning at 8:30, the phone is
permanently engaged until 9:00 when a helpful answerphone takes over.

Assuming you do get through, you might ('might') get an appointment that day
or next day. *If a next day appointment isn't available, you are told you
must ring tomorrow. *Should you suggest that Thursday would be fine, as the
matter is not life threatening, you will be told that you can't book a
Thursday appointment on a Monday, you have to ring on Thursday.

That's a fault of their system. Advance bookings waste so much
resource due to people simply not turning up on the day.

Since our surgery stopped accepting them, things are much better. You
can only get an appointmrnt on the day you ring but the system is run
such that you *will* get an appointment on the day you ring. Never
failed me so far.

MBQ

In message , Rod
writes
somebody wrote:
In message , Tim Lamb
writes
I know this isn't the place but I just want some experience from
others.....

My missus refuses to do it, she says it is immoral and she won't be
part of it. It has probably put black marks on her record, but good
on her for standing up to it.
I think your "paranoia" radar is likely spot on.

Last I was reading the 'official' guidelines, I am pretty sure they
said that there was a minimum warning period for things like this. So
declining a slot offered at very short notice would not count against
the patient. However, I am not sure if these were local or national
rules so it is difficult for me to verify.


Yes, I vaguely remember the missus telling me that had been introduced,
so probably national. IIRC the notice period is now a few days.

The end result is they now have to ring 'x' times as many patients to
get the required number of "declineds".
Someone

On 2 Sep 2008 23:32:52 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

Last time I was there he was fulminating about the hospital appointments
system and its inflexibility; I had a taste of it with the latest
letter....

I should attend the day surgery ward at 0730. I should not eat or drink
for the previous eight hours. I should not take any of my usual
medication. I should....and so it goes on. Then I am warned that if I am
late, my bed will be given to someone else. I should bring a change of
clothes, pyjamas, etc.

Or just maybe he doesn't know (or hasn't be trained) in how to use it
properly. So just clicks the "surgery" button and the standard
appointment/letter requirements for surgery under general anesthetic is
the result.

What ever, complain to the admissions and the day surgery manager. It
won't get fixed if those in charge don't know it's broken. The "fix" might
be making sure that the consultant actually attends training on the IT
system and doesn't go and play golf instead.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 00:00:38 +0100, Colin Wilson wrote:

Does the letter ask for a response? If it does and people don't respond
then that is just tough.

Nah, it's a scam - my neighbour has had to chase up appointments that
never arrived to be told she's now back of the queue because they
allege to have sent one.

How long did they leave it before chasing? Did they ask how long it would
be before the appointment arrived in the post?

My wife and I sat waiting over two years for IVF because they'd
"lost" us in the system - we should have had the appointment by their
own reckoning within 6 months (they even told us that).

So why did you wait 2 years if notification of an appointment due within 6
months hadn't arrived within a few weeks? Had *you* failed to ask how long
it would take before an appointment should appear and when notification of
that appointment would arrive?

Agreed, no one should have to chase things up but if bits of paper don't
arrive in a reasonable time frame (less than 2 weeks) or within the time
that you have been told(*) they will arrive then it's time to be proactive
and chase 'em. If people just sit and wait quietly then no wonder they
stay fallen through the cracks in the floor boards, they really only have
themselves to blame.

(*) If they don't tell you, ask.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 09:19:57 UTC, "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

Assuming you do get through, you might ('might') get an appointment that day
or next day. Â*If a next day appointment isn't available, you are told you
must ring tomorrow. Â*Should you suggest that Thursday would be fine, as the
matter is not life threatening, you will be told that you can't book a
Thursday appointment on a Monday, you have to ring on Thursday.

That's a fault of their system. Advance bookings waste so much
resource due to people simply not turning up on the day.

Since our surgery stopped accepting them, things are much better. You
can only get an appointmrnt on the day you ring but the system is run
such that you *will* get an appointment on the day you ring. Never
failed me so far.

It doesn't work in some situations, though. For example, I needed to
book my son in for an appointment - not too urgent, but the next two or
three days, preferably.

He leaves for school at 0725. The surgery reception opens at 0830. So I
either have to keep him off school 'in case' he gets an appointment, or
get one for later in the day and then do a 30 mile round trip to fetch
him (he goes by train), or contact the school, and get a message to him
quickly that he has to come home *now*. He doesn't get back from school
until 1635, and they don't seem to have appointments that late.

OTOH, my doctor (different one, still NHS but a surgery at work) allows
advance booking over a week ahead, over the Internet.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Sep 2, 11:56 pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
I know this isn't the place but I just want some experience from
others.....
Twice recently I have become aware that patients have been *bumped*
off a waiting list and had to restart.
The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters
detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!
Is this common or is paranoia contagious?
Its called 'hitting the target & missing the point'.

The media publicise a 'scandal' involving a service. A politician 'solves'
the problem by setting targets, but without allocating any extra funding.
The target is therefore impossible to meet, so the figures get fudged.

Two examples;

Our local GP's surgery has a target that 'no patient will wait more than two
days to see a GP'. So, you ring on a Monday morning at 8:30, the phone is
permanently engaged until 9:00 when a helpful answerphone takes over.

Assuming you do get through, you might ('might') get an appointment that day
or next day. If a next day appointment isn't available, you are told you
must ring tomorrow. Should you suggest that Thursday would be fine, as the
matter is not life threatening, you will be told that you can't book a
Thursday appointment on a Monday, you have to ring on Thursday.

That's a fault of their system. Advance bookings waste so much
resource due to people simply not turning up on the day.

Since our surgery stopped accepting them, things are much better. You
can only get an appointmrnt on the day you ring but the system is run
such that you *will* get an appointment on the day you ring. Never
failed me so far.

MBQ

Which is fine for some things/people. My partner *cannot* get to the
surgery unless I take her - which means booking time off work. So 'on
the day only' is unacceptable. However, it is the way our surgery works
and she can only get there so I have to book time 'blind' and hope she
does get in that day.

The ring at exactly 08:30 system is awful as well. (Or about 08:28 if
you are lucky.) Spend twenty minutes on an 0844 number and then the call
gets terminated? Or there are no appointments left?

Further complicated by surgery closing on random days 'for training'.
Unless you go there and see a notice you would never know.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 09:26:04 UTC, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On 2 Sep 2008 23:32:52 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

Last time I was there he was fulminating about the hospital appointments
system and its inflexibility; I had a taste of it with the latest
letter....

I should attend the day surgery ward at 0730. I should not eat or drink
for the previous eight hours. I should not take any of my usual
medication. I should....and so it goes on. Then I am warned that if I am
late, my bed will be given to someone else. I should bring a change of
clothes, pyjamas, etc.

Or just maybe he doesn't know (or hasn't be trained) in how to use it
properly. So just clicks the "surgery" button and the standard
appointment/letter requirements for surgery under general anesthetic is
the result.

What ever, complain to the admissions and the day surgery manager. It
won't get fixed if those in charge don't know it's broken. The "fix" might
be making sure that the consultant actually attends training on the IT
system and doesn't go and play golf instead.

He's been complaining for the last three years, so you'd have thought
he'd have been enlightened by now if that were the case. Anyway, the
bookings are made by the front desk in the eye clinic!

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Mary Fisher wrote:
"keith" wrote in message
...


My better half had new dentures top and bottom, and a three crowns,
no waiting, finished in a week, from an english trained dentist, 80
quid all in. I love this backward, third world country.

Keith
Yambol, Bulgaria

Bulgaria is not a third world country by any sensible definition.

Second world country.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 07:25:21 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

My missus refuses to do it, she says it is immoral and she won't be
part of it. It has probably put black marks on her record, but good
on her for standing up to it.

All credit to your missus.

Hear, hear. This sort of waiting list target fudging needs to be blown
open and stopped. Any one with evidence needs to rattle a few cages where
it matters like their MP. Find your MPs contact details from:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

No point in rattling the cages of the head honchos in the relevant NHS
Trust, they have a vested interest in meeting the targets as well.

Do you really think a labour MP will want to know?

The press would be the best bet.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 00:00:38 +0100, Colin Wilson wrote:

Does the letter ask for a response? If it does and people don't respond
then that is just tough.

Nah, it's a scam - my neighbour has had to chase up appointments that
never arrived to be told she's now back of the queue because they
allege to have sent one.

How long did they leave it before chasing? Did they ask how long it would
be before the appointment arrived in the post?

My wife and I sat waiting over two years for IVF because they'd
"lost" us in the system - we should have had the appointment by their
own reckoning within 6 months (they even told us that).

So why did you wait 2 years if notification of an appointment due within 6
months hadn't arrived within a few weeks? Had *you* failed to ask how long
it would take before an appointment should appear and when notification of
that appointment would arrive?

Agreed, no one should have to chase things up but if bits of paper don't
arrive in a reasonable time frame (less than 2 weeks) or within the time
that you have been told(*) they will arrive then it's time to be proactive
and chase 'em. If people just sit and wait quietly then no wonder they
stay fallen through the cracks in the floor boards, they really only have
themselves to blame.

(*) If they don't tell you, ask.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Well said.

Mary

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 21:27:30 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:

The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters
detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!

Does the letter ask for a response? If it does and people don't respond
then that is just tough.

What makes me laugh is the implied precision that my facture clinic
"appointments" have. The first was 14:30, when I get the next one it's
14:36 and the next is 13:57. Now I'm used to keeping times to the minute,
if they say 14:36 I'll be at that reception desk at 14:36 and I expect
them to be ready for me as well. Well I can but wish...

--
Cheers
Dave.


The time stated is just a guide and they want you to attend at that time
regardless of how many is in the queue.

"Colin Wilson" o.uk wrote
in message ...
Does the letter ask for a response? If it does and people don't respond
then that is just tough.

Nah, it's a scam - my neighbour has had to chase up appointments that
never arrived to be told she's now back of the queue because they
allege to have sent one.

If the family doctor made the appointment? then the neighbour should have
gone back to the doctor and informed him/her about the mishap in appointment
because when you get an appointment the doctor also gets informed about
it,so if the appointment is rescheduled this will also go down onto the
doctors records.

I once had an appointment at the hospital and never recieved notification
this came to light when the hospital sent me a letter stating my appointent
had been cancelled,went to the doctors and he also told me that no
notification was on my records,got in touch with hospital appointents and
another appointment was made immediatly within the same month of seeing my
doctor because of the hospitals mistake.


My wife and I sat waiting over two years for IVF because they'd
"lost" us in the system - we should have had the appointment by their
own reckoning within 6 months (they even told us that).

On Sep 3, 11:37*am, Rod wrote:
Man at B&Q wrote:
On Sep 2, 11:56 pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
I know this isn't the place but I just want some experience from
others.....
Twice recently I have become aware that patients have been *bumped*
off a waiting list and had to restart.
The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters
detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!
Is this common or is paranoia contagious?
Its called 'hitting the target & missing the point'.

The media publicise a 'scandal' involving a service. *A politician 'solves'
the problem by setting targets, but without allocating any extra funding.
The target is therefore impossible to meet, so the figures get fudged.

Two examples;

Our local GP's surgery has a target that 'no patient will wait more than two
days to see a GP'. *So, you ring on a Monday morning at 8:30, the phone is
permanently engaged until 9:00 when a helpful answerphone takes over.

Assuming you do get through, you might ('might') get an appointment that day
or next day. *If a next day appointment isn't available, you are told you
must ring tomorrow. *Should you suggest that Thursday would be fine, as the
matter is not life threatening, you will be told that you can't book a
Thursday appointment on a Monday, you have to ring on Thursday.

That's a fault of their system. Advance bookings waste so much
resource due to people simply not turning up on the day.

Since our surgery stopped accepting them, things are much better. You
can only get an appointmrnt on the day you ring but the system is run
such that you *will* get an appointment on the day you ring. Never
failed me so far.

MBQ

Which is fine for some things/people. My partner *cannot* get to the
surgery unless I take her - which means booking time off work. So 'on
the day only' is unacceptable. However, it is the way our surgery works
and she can only get there so I have to book time 'blind' and hope she
does get in that day.

The ring at exactly 08:30 system is awful as well. (Or about 08:28 if
you are lucky.) Spend twenty minutes on an 0844 number and then the call
gets terminated? Or there are no appointments left?

It's not perfect, but at our surgery you *always* get an appointment
(OK a few mins befor closing you probably wouldn't). Only two weeks
ago I rang at about 2:30pm and was in the consulting room at 3:30. The
phone lines opan at 8:00 or 8:30 but you don't have to ring first
thing AM.

MBQ

On 3 Sep 2008 10:59:42 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

He's been complaining for the last three years,

Who to? Just his patients or the relevant managers?

so you'd have thought he'd have been enlightened by now if that were the
case.

Not if he's not making a fuss in the right places. Probably does the NHS
stuff 'cause he has to but gets better reward from his private work and
playing golf.

Anyway, the bookings are made by the front desk in the eye clinic!

On presentation of a form filled in by the consultant no doubt. That form
either being a bit of paper which you hand in or an electronic one. If the
wrong boxes are ticked or not enough written information provided you
can't blame the clerk on the desk or the system.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 12:38:12 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

No point in rattling the cages of the head honchos in the relevant NHS
Trust, they have a vested interest in meeting the targets as well.

Do you really think a labour MP will want to know?

He's your MP, they are there to represent you not the party they happen to
belong to (unfortunately a large number do just toe the party line). If
they don't ask awkward questions in the house or of the top level of the
relevant NHS Trust then it's time for:

The press would be the best bet.

Even bigger story, MP not doing his job *AND* covering up a scandal within
the NHS.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"OG" wrote:

I trust you have written to your MP about this - using your real name of
course


Of course he hasn't. Anyway, he probably made the whole thing up.

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Sep 3, 11:37 am, Rod wrote:
Man at B&Q wrote:
On Sep 2, 11:56 pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
I know this isn't the place but I just want some experience from
others.....
Twice recently I have become aware that patients have been *bumped*
off a waiting list and had to restart.
The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters
detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!
Is this common or is paranoia contagious?
Its called 'hitting the target & missing the point'.
The media publicise a 'scandal' involving a service. A politician 'solves'
the problem by setting targets, but without allocating any extra funding.
The target is therefore impossible to meet, so the figures get fudged.
Two examples;
Our local GP's surgery has a target that 'no patient will wait more than two
days to see a GP'. So, you ring on a Monday morning at 8:30, the phone is
permanently engaged until 9:00 when a helpful answerphone takes over.
Assuming you do get through, you might ('might') get an appointment that day
or next day. If a next day appointment isn't available, you are told you
must ring tomorrow. Should you suggest that Thursday would be fine, as the
matter is not life threatening, you will be told that you can't book a
Thursday appointment on a Monday, you have to ring on Thursday.
That's a fault of their system. Advance bookings waste so much
resource due to people simply not turning up on the day.
Since our surgery stopped accepting them, things are much better. You
can only get an appointmrnt on the day you ring but the system is run
such that you *will* get an appointment on the day you ring. Never
failed me so far.
MBQ
Which is fine for some things/people. My partner *cannot* get to the
surgery unless I take her - which means booking time off work. So 'on
the day only' is unacceptable. However, it is the way our surgery works
and she can only get there so I have to book time 'blind' and hope she
does get in that day.

The ring at exactly 08:30 system is awful as well. (Or about 08:28 if
you are lucky.) Spend twenty minutes on an 0844 number and then the call
gets terminated? Or there are no appointments left?

It's not perfect, but at our surgery you *always* get an appointment
(OK a few mins befor closing you probably wouldn't). Only two weeks
ago I rang at about 2:30pm and was in the consulting room at 3:30. The
phone lines opan at 8:00 or 8:30 but you don't have to ring first
thing AM.

MBQ

That would be an improvement - quite literally if we do not ring by
08:32 or so there will be no morning appointments - after waiting in the
queue for the required length of time. So try at 14:00 - again, within a
very few minutes, none will be left.

Not sure there really is an answer, but what happens now isn't good for us.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 13:45:41 UTC, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On 3 Sep 2008 10:59:42 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

He's been complaining for the last three years,

Who to? Just his patients or the relevant managers?

To the managers. I know this guy well, and he's not daft.

so you'd have thought he'd have been enlightened by now if that were the
case.

Not if he's not making a fuss in the right places. Probably does the NHS
stuff 'cause he has to but gets better reward from his private work and
playing golf.

Actually, he does some private work. Mainly NHS and a lot of third world
charity though!

Anyway, the bookings are made by the front desk in the eye clinic!

On presentation of a form filled in by the consultant no doubt. That form
either being a bit of paper which you hand in or an electronic one. If the
wrong boxes are ticked or not enough written information provided you
can't blame the clerk on the desk or the system.

No form at all....I just go along and book for laser surgery. I talked
to one of the other guys and he said it was an inflexibility in the IT
system. I can believe that!
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In message , Bruce
writes
"OG" wrote:

I trust you have written to your MP about this - using your real name of
course


Of course he hasn't. Anyway, he probably made the whole thing up.


*sigh* Oh boy, here we go again.


"Audit Commission - Waiting list accuracy, Assessing the accuracy of
waiting list information in NHS hospitals in England"

http://www.audit-commission.gov.uk/P...T/2BBB4A89-221
2-401A-B385-02CA01D10100/WaitingListAccuracy.pdf

Para 74: "Potentially of greater direct impact on patients is that a
number of trusts were found to be operating in ways that seem weighted
away from the interests of patients. These include the practice of
offering appointments to patients at short notice and then,
when they are unable to attend, recording this as a 'patient
cancellation' and resetting the 'clock' measuring their waiting time to
zero."

It's a 5 year old report, but it is probably the reason for introduction
of the new guidelines which Rod mentioned earlier, an attempt to stop
this practice.

I guess that in your eyes we're all making it up.
Someone

Nah, it's a scam - my neighbour has had to chase up appointments that
never arrived to be told she's now back of the queue because they
allege to have sent one.
How long did they leave it before chasing? Did they ask how long it would
be before the appointment arrived in the post?

She was only made aware of the "appointment" when she was sent a card
saying she'd missed the first one, so they were putting her on the
back-burner for a few months. It _is_ standard practice for many
treatments to operated in this manner.

My wife and I sat waiting over two years for IVF
So why did you wait 2 years if notification of an appointment due within 6
months hadn't arrived within a few weeks? Had *you* failed to ask how long
it would take before an appointment should appear and when notification of
that appointment would arrive?

We were not told any timescales, other than we were in the queue for
treatment, but it would be a "long wait". When we contacted them we
were told we should have been given an appointment within 6 months of
a group-session everyone had to attend. We hadn't been told that
previously, just the "long wait" speech due to limited funds etc.

If people just sit and wait quietly then no wonder they stay fallen
through the cracks in the floor boards, they really only have
themselves to blame.

While i'd love to agree with you completely, i'm afraid to say I
can't. The healthcare system in this country purposely witholds
treatment (apparently if they delay treatment for over 12 months the
"patient" doesn't ever bother asking again in about 95% of cases,
saving them metric ****loads - so this has become their system of
saving money)

In our case, we know IVF is a costly and limited treatment, and
considered ourselves lucky to be given the opportunity - so when we
were told it would be a long wait, we accepted that without question.

If the family doctor made the appointment? then the neighbour should have
gone back to the doctor and informed him/her about the mishap in appointment
because when you get an appointment the doctor also gets informed about
it,so if the appointment is rescheduled this will also go down onto the
doctors records.

Around here it seems to be common for the doctor to send something to
the hospital for _them_ to arrange to see the patient. That way, the
hospital handles the appointment(s) in a way that best tweaks their
performance figures...