I've got a window sill that appeared to have a piece of slate-like
material on the top that had come away from the concrete sill and was
breaking up. Not sure exactly what it was or how it was fixed but it
all chipped off with no problem.
This has left an unpainted sill at the top but the sides are still
painted. Most of this paint is in good condition but a little has
flaked off. Should I remove all this paint with Nitromors or just
scrape off the flaky areas?
I've filled up some small cracks on the top with Sandtex filler, so
will be ready for painting. Saw stacks of Sandtex exterior paint in
B&Q yesterday. Any preparation required for this, is it thick enough
that it would smooth out the rough surface of the sill?



Dave

The slate like material was probably render so bear in mind that may
have been their to stop damp getting in originally.Sand text can be
bought in rough and smooth varieties but would only smooth out minor
surface imperfections but all depends on how much of a perfectionist
you are.

Dave wrote:
I've got a window sill that appeared to have a piece of slate-like
material on the top that had come away from the concrete sill and was
breaking up. Not sure exactly what it was or how it was fixed but it
all chipped off with no problem.
This has left an unpainted sill at the top but the sides are still
painted. Most of this paint is in good condition but a little has
flaked off. Should I remove all this paint with Nitromors or just
scrape off the flaky areas?
I've filled up some small cracks on the top with Sandtex filler, so
will be ready for painting. Saw stacks of Sandtex exterior paint in
B&Q yesterday. Any preparation required for this, is it thick enough
that it would smooth out the rough surface of the sill?



Dave

I'd spend a bit of time getting it smooth, and making sure it slopes
away. Puddles on sills are bad news.

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:26:44 +0100, stuart noble
wrote:



I'd spend a bit of time getting it smooth, and making sure it slopes
away. Puddles on sills are bad news.



Would putting a layer of the Sandex filler over the whole sill be a
good idea, ensuring that it sloped forward?


Dave

Dave wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:26:44 +0100, stuart noble
wrote:


I'd spend a bit of time getting it smooth, and making sure it slopes
away. Puddles on sills are bad news.



Would putting a layer of the Sandex filler over the whole sill be a
good idea, ensuring that it sloped forward?


Dave


Yes, a good idea. Ideally there should also be a drip groove on the
underside.
Not familiar with the Sandtex product, but I have skimmed sills with
Polyfilla exterior filler. Not really the weather for it at the moment!

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 07:55:49 +0100, stuart noble
wrote:

Dave wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:26:44 +0100, stuart noble
wrote:


I'd spend a bit of time getting it smooth, and making sure it slopes
away. Puddles on sills are bad news.



Would putting a layer of the Sandex filler over the whole sill be a
good idea, ensuring that it sloped forward?


Dave


Yes, a good idea. Ideally there should also be a drip groove on the
underside.
Not familiar with the Sandtex product, but I have skimmed sills with
Polyfilla exterior filler. Not really the weather for it at the moment!


There is a drip groove underneath. Hoping for some dry weather next
weekend and will do a skim.

Dave

There are big gaps in my wooden window frames
where the wood has rotted-
but to fill it with car body filler would cost a lot of fivers,
so could I paint it with Cuprinol 5 star anti-rot
then fill it with expanding foam
then skim the surface with car body filler
or Polyfilla exterior filler or something similar
and then paint it?

--

[george]



"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:26:44 +0100, stuart noble
wrote:


I'd spend a bit of time getting it smooth, and making sure it slopes
away. Puddles on sills are bad news.



Would putting a layer of the Sandex filler over the whole sill be a
good idea, ensuring that it sloped forward?


Dave


Yes, a good idea. Ideally there should also be a drip groove on the
underside.
Not familiar with the Sandtex product, but I have skimmed sills with
Polyfilla exterior filler. Not really the weather for it at the moment!

George (dicegeorge) wrote:
There are big gaps in my wooden window frames
where the wood has rotted-
but to fill it with car body filler would cost a lot of fivers,

Not if you go to a pukka trade outlet. I think I pay about £15 for 3.5
kgs of the stuff.

"George (dicegeorge)" wrote in message
...
There are big gaps in my wooden window frames
where the wood has rotted-
but to fill it with car body filler would cost a lot of fivers,
so could I paint it with Cuprinol 5 star anti-rot
then fill it with expanding foam
then skim the surface with car body filler
or Polyfilla exterior filler or something similar
and then paint it?


So long as you paint it afterwards? a bag of Drywall adhesive goes a long
way it also goes rock hard and at the same time sandable.
Price is about £6.

Used it on my window sills and the sill looks good once painted. :-)

George wrote:
"George (dicegeorge)" wrote in message
...
There are big gaps in my wooden window frames
where the wood has rotted-
but to fill it with car body filler would cost a lot of fivers,
so could I paint it with Cuprinol 5 star anti-rot
then fill it with expanding foam
then skim the surface with car body filler
or Polyfilla exterior filler or something similar
and then paint it?


So long as you paint it afterwards? a bag of Drywall adhesive goes a long
way it also goes rock hard and at the same time sandable.
Price is about £6.

Used it on my window sills and the sill looks good once painted. :-)



I wish you luck, but I don't think it has any real water resistance

"stuart noble" wrote in message
news
George wrote:
"George (dicegeorge)" wrote in message
...
There are big gaps in my wooden window frames
where the wood has rotted-
but to fill it with car body filler would cost a lot of fivers,
so could I paint it with Cuprinol 5 star anti-rot
then fill it with expanding foam
then skim the surface with car body filler
or Polyfilla exterior filler or something similar
and then paint it?


So long as you paint it afterwards? a bag of Drywall adhesive goes a
long way it also goes rock hard and at the same time sandable.
Price is about £6.

Used it on my window sills and the sill looks good once painted. :-)

I wish you luck, but I don't think it has any real water resistance

Thats why we paint over it with a good Johnsons exterior paint. :-) and to
be honest has the car filler been proved to reflect water?

In article ,
George \(dicegeorge\) wrote:
There are big gaps in my wooden window frames where the wood has rotted-
but to fill it with car body filler would cost a lot of fivers, so could
I paint it with Cuprinol 5 star anti-rot then fill it with expanding
foam then skim the surface with car body filler or Polyfilla exterior
filler or something similar and then paint it?

Once rot has got a hold anything like this is just a stopgap. The only way
is to cut it out and replace with new timber. Which won't cost 'lots of
fivers'.

--
*I used up all my sick days so I called in dead

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

George wrote:
"stuart noble" wrote in message
news
George wrote:
"George (dicegeorge)" wrote in message
...
There are big gaps in my wooden window frames
where the wood has rotted-
but to fill it with car body filler would cost a lot of fivers,
so could I paint it with Cuprinol 5 star anti-rot
then fill it with expanding foam
then skim the surface with car body filler
or Polyfilla exterior filler or something similar
and then paint it?

So long as you paint it afterwards? a bag of Drywall adhesive goes a
long way it also goes rock hard and at the same time sandable.
Price is about £6.

Used it on my window sills and the sill looks good once painted. :-)
I wish you luck, but I don't think it has any real water resistance

Thats why we paint over it with a good Johnsons exterior paint. :-) and to
be honest has the car filler been proved to reflect water?


Wouldn't be much use on car bodies otherwise.
I would regard this as something you may get away with in a sheltered
location in the short term....

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
George \(dicegeorge\) wrote:
There are big gaps in my wooden window frames where the wood has rotted-
but to fill it with car body filler would cost a lot of fivers, so could
I paint it with Cuprinol 5 star anti-rot then fill it with expanding
foam then skim the surface with car body filler or Polyfilla exterior
filler or something similar and then paint it?

Once rot has got a hold anything like this is just a stopgap. The only way
is to cut it out and replace with new timber. Which won't cost 'lots of
fivers'.


Body filler has lasted over 20 years on my sills.

In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
Once rot has got a hold anything like this is just a stopgap. The only
way is to cut it out and replace with new timber. Which won't cost
'lots of fivers'.


Body filler has lasted over 20 years on my sills.

Oh it won't rot. It's the wood around it that does.

--
*A backward poet writes inverse.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
Once rot has got a hold anything like this is just a stopgap. The only
way is to cut it out and replace with new timber. Which won't cost
'lots of fivers'.


Body filler has lasted over 20 years on my sills.

Oh it won't rot. It's the wood around it that does.


Depends how thorough you are in the first place. With a former/release
agent you can virtually re-cast the sill with a nice straight edge. The
key is in the price of the stuff. At trade prices you don't need to
think about the amount you're using

George wrote:
"stuart noble" wrote in message
news
George wrote:
"George (dicegeorge)" wrote in message
...
There are big gaps in my wooden window frames
where the wood has rotted-
but to fill it with car body filler would cost a lot of fivers,
so could I paint it with Cuprinol 5 star anti-rot
then fill it with expanding foam
then skim the surface with car body filler
or Polyfilla exterior filler or something similar
and then paint it?

So long as you paint it afterwards? a bag of Drywall adhesive goes a
long way it also goes rock hard and at the same time sandable.
Price is about £6.

Used it on my window sills and the sill looks good once painted. :-)
I wish you luck, but I don't think it has any real water resistance

Thats why we paint over it with a good Johnsons exterior paint. :-) and to
be honest has the car filler been proved to reflect water?


I am not sure what reflecting water means to be honest. But car body
filler is completely impermeable if thats what you mean, being comprised
of polyester resin (the sort fibreglass boats are made out of) and a
mineral filler - think its mica, which is not noted for its hygroscopic
properties either ;-)

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
George \(dicegeorge\) wrote:
There are big gaps in my wooden window frames where the wood has rotted-
but to fill it with car body filler would cost a lot of fivers, so could
I paint it with Cuprinol 5 star anti-rot then fill it with expanding
foam then skim the surface with car body filler or Polyfilla exterior
filler or something similar and then paint it?

Once rot has got a hold anything like this is just a stopgap. The only way
is to cut it out and replace with new timber. Which won't cost 'lots of
fivers'.

No. that i actually not true.

If u can get the wood dry, and then apply a very runny resin to it that
soaks into the rotten fibres and stabilises (and seals against more
water ingress) then making good with another resin is fine: the issue is
a balance between when new wood and the labour to fit it is cheaper than
the filler.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
George \(dicegeorge\) wrote:
There are big gaps in my wooden window frames where the wood has rotted-
but to fill it with car body filler would cost a lot of fivers, so could
I paint it with Cuprinol 5 star anti-rot then fill it with expanding
foam then skim the surface with car body filler or Polyfilla exterior
filler or something similar and then paint it?

Once rot has got a hold anything like this is just a stopgap. The only
way
is to cut it out and replace with new timber. Which won't cost 'lots of
fivers'.

No. that i actually not true.

If u can get the wood dry, and then apply a very runny resin to it that
soaks into the rotten fibres and stabilises (and seals against more
water ingress) then making good with another resin is fine: the issue is
a balance between when new wood and the labour to fit it is cheaper than
the filler.

New wood is fine if you're replacing the whole sill, otherwise I'd
always go for the body filler

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am not sure what reflecting water means to be honest. But car body
filler is completely impermeable if thats what you mean, being comprised
of polyester resin (the sort fibreglass boats are made out of) and a
mineral filler - think its mica, which is not noted for its hygroscopic
properties either ;-)

Some 'fibreglass' car body fillers are/were porous - if my books on
bodging car bodywork are to be believed. Wouldn't mica be difficult to
sand?

--
*Save a tree, eat a beaver*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Once rot has got a hold anything like this is just a stopgap. The only
way is to cut it out and replace with new timber. Which won't cost
'lots of fivers'.

No. that i actually not true.

It's an opinion based on experience.

If u can get the wood dry,

That's a big if with a sill - you can only get at a small part of it.

and then apply a very runny resin to it that
soaks into the rotten fibres and stabilises (and seals against more
water ingress) then making good with another resin is fine:

The shed products to do this cost an arm and a leg.

the issue is a balance between when new wood and the labour to fit it
is cheaper than the filler.

Indeed. It's not a difficult job to change one.

--
*It was all so different before everything changed.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

stuart noble wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
George \(dicegeorge\) wrote:
There are big gaps in my wooden window frames where the wood has
rotted-
but to fill it with car body filler would cost a lot of fivers, so
could
I paint it with Cuprinol 5 star anti-rot then fill it with expanding
foam then skim the surface with car body filler or Polyfilla exterior
filler or something similar and then paint it?

Once rot has got a hold anything like this is just a stopgap. The
only way
is to cut it out and replace with new timber. Which won't cost 'lots of
fivers'.

No. that i actually not true.

If u can get the wood dry, and then apply a very runny resin to it
that soaks into the rotten fibres and stabilises (and seals against
more water ingress) then making good with another resin is fine: the
issue is a balance between when new wood and the labour to fit it is
cheaper than the filler.

New wood is fine if you're replacing the whole sill, otherwise I'd
always go for the body filler

I have been known to set blocks of wood IN the filler..

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Once rot has got a hold anything like this is just a stopgap. The only
way is to cut it out and replace with new timber. Which won't cost
'lots of fivers'.

No. that i actually not true.

It's an opinion based on experience.

As is mine..

If u can get the wood dry,

That's a big if with a sill - you can only get at a small part of it.


Wait till midsummer.

and then apply a very runny resin to it that
soaks into the rotten fibres and stabilises (and seals against more
water ingress) then making good with another resin is fine:

The shed products to do this cost an arm and a leg.

Yes. Which is why I generally gougue out the really punky stiff, and use
a polyesetr glassing resin.

the issue is a balance between when new wood and the labour to fit it
is cheaper than the filler.

Indeed. It's not a difficult job to change one.

Can be if it goes into the wall deeply.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am not sure what reflecting water means to be honest. But car body
filler is completely impermeable if thats what you mean, being comprised
of polyester resin (the sort fibreglass boats are made out of) and a
mineral filler - think its mica, which is not noted for its hygroscopic
properties either ;-)

Some 'fibreglass' car body fillers are/were porous - if my books on
bodging car bodywork are to be believed. Wouldn't mica be difficult to
sand?

Its not a particlarly hard compound. Porous car body filler is a bit of
a pain..I suspect you may be thinking of body PUTTY, which is more a
soft cellulose based air drying thing.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
If u can get the wood dry,

That's a big if with a sill - you can only get at a small part of it.


Wait till midsummer.

Even this year?

--
*TEAMWORK...means never having to take all the blame yourself *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Some 'fibreglass' car body fillers are/were porous - if my books on
bodging car bodywork are to be believed. Wouldn't mica be difficult to
sand?

Its not a particlarly hard compound. Porous car body filler is a bit of
a pain..I suspect you may be thinking of body PUTTY, which is more a
soft cellulose based air drying thing.

I'm quite aware of the difference between 'glass fibre' filler and
cellulose putty, thanks.

--
*I can see your point, but I still think you're full of ****.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

If u can get the wood dry, and then apply a very runny resin to it that
soaks into the rotten fibres and stabilises (and seals against more
water ingress)

That's an essential preparatory step, IMO, and proprietary 2-part 'wood
hardener' products are available for the purpose. Any decorators'
merchant will have some.

As to fillers I've been impressed recently with Polycell's 'Wood Repair
Pollyfilla' product[*]. It's a 2-part epoxy formulation, sandable but
retains some flexibility when cured. Car body fillers tend to set too
hard and may crack away from the wood on large repairs, IME.
[*]
http://www.polycell.co.uk/products/p...polyfilla.html
(quite expensive, but worth it).

--
Andy

Andy Wade wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

If u can get the wood dry, and then apply a very runny resin to it
that soaks into the rotten fibres and stabilises (and seals against
more water ingress)

That's an essential preparatory step, IMO, and proprietary 2-part 'wood
hardener' products are available for the purpose. Any decorators'
merchant will have some.

Fibreglass resin is cheaper, and essentially the same thing

As to fillers I've been impressed recently with Polycell's 'Wood Repair
Pollyfilla' product[*]. It's a 2-part epoxy formulation, sandable but
retains some flexibility when cured. Car body fillers tend to set too
hard and may crack away from the wood on large repairs, IME.

IME sometimes the surrounding wood dries and shrinks away from the
filler after a few months. This is usually a one off event.

[*]
http://www.polycell.co.uk/products/p...polyfilla.html
(quite expensive, but worth it).

In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
If u can get the wood dry, and then apply a very runny resin to it
that soaks into the rotten fibres and stabilises (and seals against
more water ingress)

That's an essential preparatory step, IMO, and proprietary 2-part
'wood hardener' products are available for the purpose. Any
decorators' merchant will have some.

Fibreglass resin is cheaper, and essentially the same thing

It's a lot thicker than the stuff I tried, so would it actually soak into
the wood?

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
If u can get the wood dry, and then apply a very runny resin to it
that soaks into the rotten fibres and stabilises (and seals against
more water ingress)
That's an essential preparatory step, IMO, and proprietary 2-part
'wood hardener' products are available for the purpose. Any
decorators' merchant will have some.

Fibreglass resin is cheaper, and essentially the same thing

It's a lot thicker than the stuff I tried, so would it actually soak into
the wood?

depends. It can be thinned as well..not sure what with tho.

It should if warmed a bit with a heat gun at least soak into the surface
enough to fully stabilize it: provided the punky stuff is all removed
first, then it wont be a bad solution at all.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
If u can get the wood dry, and then apply a very runny resin to it
that soaks into the rotten fibres and stabilises (and seals against
more water ingress)
That's an essential preparatory step, IMO, and proprietary 2-part
'wood hardener' products are available for the purpose. Any
decorators' merchant will have some.

Fibreglass resin is cheaper, and essentially the same thing

It's a lot thicker than the stuff I tried, so would it actually soak into
the wood?


IME, yes. It soaks into porous wood, partly because it cures more slowly
than the resin used in body filler (overnight IIRC)

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
If u can get the wood dry, and then apply a very runny resin to it
that soaks into the rotten fibres and stabilises (and seals against
more water ingress)
That's an essential preparatory step, IMO, and proprietary 2-part
'wood hardener' products are available for the purpose. Any
decorators' merchant will have some.

Fibreglass resin is cheaper, and essentially the same thing

It's a lot thicker than the stuff I tried, so would it actually soak into
the wood?

depends. It can be thinned as well..not sure what with tho.

It should if warmed a bit with a heat gun at least soak into the surface
enough to fully stabilize it: provided the punky stuff is all removed
first, then it wont be a bad solution at all.

Acetone I think, but styrene also thins it IIRC. Both available from GRP
suppliers

stuart noble wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
If u can get the wood dry, and then apply a very runny resin to it
that soaks into the rotten fibres and stabilises (and seals against
more water ingress)
That's an essential preparatory step, IMO, and proprietary 2-part
'wood hardener' products are available for the purpose. Any
decorators' merchant will have some.

Fibreglass resin is cheaper, and essentially the same thing

It's a lot thicker than the stuff I tried, so would it actually soak into
the wood?


IME, yes. It soaks into porous wood, partly because it cures more slowly
than the resin used in body filler (overnight IIRC)

That depends on how much catalysts you add.


Put enough in, it sets in a minute or two and gets hot enough to catch fire

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
stuart noble wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
If u can get the wood dry, and then apply a very runny resin to it
that soaks into the rotten fibres and stabilises (and seals
against more water ingress)
That's an essential preparatory step, IMO, and proprietary 2-part
'wood hardener' products are available for the purpose. Any
decorators' merchant will have some.

Fibreglass resin is cheaper, and essentially the same thing

It's a lot thicker than the stuff I tried, so would it actually soak
into
the wood?


IME, yes. It soaks into porous wood, partly because it cures more
slowly than the resin used in body filler (overnight IIRC)

That depends on how much catalysts you add.


Put enough in, it sets in a minute or two and gets hot enough to catch fire

Without an accelerator (cobalt?) a thin film of layup resin doesn't cure
that fast because the heat is constantly being cooled by the air and the
surface itself. There are all kinds of accelerators and retarders to
overcome this e.g. when large items are being laminated outdoors in
winter. Overloading the resin with a lesser catalyst would weaken the
end result.
Filler is a different matter because a) the resin itself is more
reactive, and b) there is usually a greater depth. If you skim it on to
a sill, it will will still be soft when the hole you filled has long
since cured. It always does cure eventually though

Filling a window sill


Here's a photo I took of it half an hour ago:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=1z6fhhl&s=4

Between the wood and stone could I use readymix patching cement?

Or would i be better with something more flexible like brown window sealer
from a tube?

Or would car body filler with wooden blocks inside it be better, when I find
a cheap source?

Or why not fill it with expanding foam then put a waterproof skin of car
body filler and then paint on it,
then i could fill every gap inside it whereas squeezing in bodyfiller could
leave gaps..


There was a wooden beading at the top of the wood,
but it seems to me an invitation for water to seep down the back of it
so i am planning on not replacing it.


(the weather man says 4 out of 5 sunny days coming up...)
--

[george]