http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7533389.stm

Anybody explain the gearage between oil and gas prices?

EricP wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7533389.stm

Anybody explain the gearage between oil and gas prices?

They're just profiteering as usual, and this is when people start theiving
gas and electricity on a massive scale, the same thing happened with tobacco
when the govt went berserk with the taxes, eventually no one buys cigarettes
in the UK as they are readily available without the tax and so because the
govt is making nothing, they hike the prices up even more, and then more,
which just gives the smugglers more scope to sell their contraband while the
govt make less and less.
There will be gangs of rogues digging up gas pipes and hooking a free supply
into every home in Britain soon, maybe it's already started, hence the
astronomical price rises this year alone, 15% a few months ago and now 35%,
but as usual, and as with the tobacco, only the law abiding and more often
than not, the pensioners will lose out by being forced to pay these
extortionate prices.

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:35:52 +0000, Phil L wrote:

There will be gangs of rogues digging up gas pipes and hooking a free
supply into every home in Britain soon

Er, that's Transco (or whoever they've been rebranded as this week). The
only thing that makes the supply non-free is the meter.

--
John Stumbles

Procrastinate now!

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:01:00 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:35:52 +0000, Phil L wrote:

There will be gangs of rogues digging up gas pipes and hooking a free
supply into every home in Britain soon

Er, that's Transco (or whoever they've been rebranded as this week). The
only thing that makes the supply non-free is the meter.

The difference between petrol/derv and gas prices is that the former are
heavily taxed so that when oil prices triple the pump price doesn't.

I'm expecting a lot of people to get quite serious about gas saving now.
Gas fires (to heat one room no the whole house) may even make a come back.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:23:39 +0000 (UTC), Ed Sirett wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:01:00 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:35:52 +0000, Phil L wrote:

There will be gangs of rogues digging up gas pipes and hooking a free
supply into every home in Britain soon

Er, that's Transco (or whoever they've been rebranded as this week). The
only thing that makes the supply non-free is the meter.

The difference between petrol/derv and gas prices is that the former are
heavily taxed so that when oil prices triple the pump price doesn't.

I'm expecting a lot of people to get quite serious about gas saving now.
Gas fires (to heat one room no the whole house) may even make a come back.

Quite. People keep talking about having to save energy - well, maybe this
is were it starts. Instead of complaining about how much more money they will
have to spend (to keep the same level of efficiency/warmth), will they
actually start to cut back now? It would be a bugger if it was a cold winter.

How about changing the "Smell Gas? phone xxxxxxx" to
"Smell Gas? Quick, bottle it before anyone else gets in on the act"

--
.. Pete Lynch I have learned from my mistakes and
.. Marlow ... I am sure I can repeat them exactly
.. www.pete-lynch.com --- Peter Cooke.

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:01:00 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:35:52 +0000, Phil L wrote:

There will be gangs of rogues digging up gas pipes and hooking a free
supply into every home in Britain soon

Er, that's Transco (or whoever they've been rebranded as this week). The
only thing that makes the supply non-free is the meter.

The difference between petrol/derv and gas prices is that the former are
heavily taxed so that when oil prices triple the pump price doesn't.

I'm expecting a lot of people to get quite serious about gas saving now.
Gas fires (to heat one room no the whole house) may even make a come back.

They are hopelessly inefficient.
The best way is to put zone valves on the CH and a timer-stat in the rooms.
This is a proper control system, TRVs are not!

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:28:38 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:01:00 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:35:52 +0000, Phil L wrote:

There will be gangs of rogues digging up gas pipes and hooking a free
supply into every home in Britain soon

Er, that's Transco (or whoever they've been rebranded as this week).
The only thing that makes the supply non-free is the meter.

The difference between petrol/derv and gas prices is that the former
are heavily taxed so that when oil prices triple the pump price
doesn't.

I'm expecting a lot of people to get quite serious about gas saving
now. Gas fires (to heat one room no the whole house) may even make a
come back.

They are hopelessly inefficient.

We are not talking about the same products. The ones I mean are about 75%
efficient and heat one room very effectively using much less gas than a
100% efficient central hating system.




--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:28:38 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:01:00 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:35:52 +0000, Phil L wrote:

There will be gangs of rogues digging up gas pipes and hooking a free
supply into every home in Britain soon

Er, that's Transco (or whoever they've been rebranded as this week).
The only thing that makes the supply non-free is the meter.

The difference between petrol/derv and gas prices is that the former
are heavily taxed so that when oil prices triple the pump price
doesn't.

I'm expecting a lot of people to get quite serious about gas saving
now. Gas fires (to heat one room no the whole house) may even make a
come back.

They are hopelessly inefficient.

We are not talking about the same products. The ones I mean are about 75%
efficient and heat one room very effectively using much less gas than a
100% efficient central hating system.

If they only manage 75% they use more gas than my CH system to heat one
room.
CH is more efficient if you have proper controls.

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:36:56 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:



"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:28:38 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:01:00 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:35:52 +0000, Phil L wrote:

There will be gangs of rogues digging up gas pipes and hooking a free
supply into every home in Britain soon

Er, that's Transco (or whoever they've been rebranded as this week).
The only thing that makes the supply non-free is the meter.

The difference between petrol/derv and gas prices is that the former
are heavily taxed so that when oil prices triple the pump price
doesn't.

I'm expecting a lot of people to get quite serious about gas saving
now. Gas fires (to heat one room no the whole house) may even make a
come back.

They are hopelessly inefficient.

We are not talking about the same products. The ones I mean are about 75%
efficient and heat one room very effectively using much less gas than a
100% efficient central hating system.

If they only manage 75% they use more gas than my CH system to heat one
room.
CH is more efficient if you have proper controls. 00

If you take the scenario maintaining a living room at say 21°C and the
rest of the house say 18°C then using a gas fire in the living room as
a 'top up' must be more efficient than maintaining the whole house, or
even a zone, at 21°C.

I suppose it may be possible to create a zone of one room but that
sounds a 'stretch'.

I am really interested in this topic being in the fuel poverty class
and 'geriatric I need to find the most efficient way to minimize
heating cost of my home.

"Edward W. Thompson" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:36:56 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:



"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:28:38 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:01:00 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:35:52 +0000, Phil L wrote:

There will be gangs of rogues digging up gas pipes and hooking a
free
supply into every home in Britain soon

Er, that's Transco (or whoever they've been rebranded as this week).
The only thing that makes the supply non-free is the meter.

The difference between petrol/derv and gas prices is that the former
are heavily taxed so that when oil prices triple the pump price
doesn't.

I'm expecting a lot of people to get quite serious about gas saving
now. Gas fires (to heat one room no the whole house) may even make a
come back.

They are hopelessly inefficient.

We are not talking about the same products. The ones I mean are about
75%
efficient and heat one room very effectively using much less gas than a
100% efficient central hating system.

If they only manage 75% they use more gas than my CH system to heat one
room.
CH is more efficient if you have proper controls. 00

If you take the scenario maintaining a living room at say 21°C and the
rest of the house say 18°C then using a gas fire in the living room as
a 'top up' must be more efficient than maintaining the whole house, or
even a zone, at 21°C.

I suppose it may be possible to create a zone of one room but that
sounds a 'stretch'.

I have five rooms on zone valves, so yes its quite easy.


I am really interested in this topic being in the fuel poverty class
and 'geriatric I need to find the most efficient way to minimize
heating cost of my home.

Geriatric? You don't want a fire then.
Too dangerous.
Why do you think the government installs free CH for the vulnerable elderly?


PS don't bother demanding Centrica's profits back either.. if you took them
all and shared them out it is less than £100 per customer and most of the
profit is from industry anyway so householders would only get a few quid.
Its better they support the vulnerable more.

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:36:56 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:28:38 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:01:00 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:35:52 +0000, Phil L wrote:

There will be gangs of rogues digging up gas pipes and hooking a
free supply into every home in Britain soon

Er, that's Transco (or whoever they've been rebranded as this week).
The only thing that makes the supply non-free is the meter.

The difference between petrol/derv and gas prices is that the former
are heavily taxed so that when oil prices triple the pump price
doesn't.

I'm expecting a lot of people to get quite serious about gas saving
now. Gas fires (to heat one room no the whole house) may even make a
come back.

They are hopelessly inefficient.

We are not talking about the same products. The ones I mean are about
75% efficient and heat one room very effectively using much less gas
than a 100% efficient central hating system.

If they only manage 75% they use more gas than my CH system to heat one
room.
CH is more efficient if you have proper controls.

There are losses associated with:
the pipework.
letting by of the closed valves
to name a couple of things.

Depending on a lot of variables it may or may not use less gas to heat one
room directly or indirectly.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:36:56 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:28:38 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:01:00 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:35:52 +0000, Phil L wrote:

There will be gangs of rogues digging up gas pipes and hooking a
free supply into every home in Britain soon

Er, that's Transco (or whoever they've been rebranded as this week).
The only thing that makes the supply non-free is the meter.

The difference between petrol/derv and gas prices is that the former
are heavily taxed so that when oil prices triple the pump price
doesn't.

I'm expecting a lot of people to get quite serious about gas saving
now. Gas fires (to heat one room no the whole house) may even make a
come back.

They are hopelessly inefficient.

We are not talking about the same products. The ones I mean are about
75% efficient and heat one room very effectively using much less gas
than a 100% efficient central hating system.

If they only manage 75% they use more gas than my CH system to heat one
room.
CH is more efficient if you have proper controls.

There are losses associated with:
the pipework.
letting by of the closed valves
to name a couple of things.

Depending on a lot of variables it may or may not use less gas to heat one
room directly or indirectly.


You supplied the figures that show CH with proper controls is cheaper.

(I already knew.)

On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 07:57:33 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:



"Edward W. Thompson" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:36:56 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:



"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:28:38 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:01:00 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:35:52 +0000, Phil L wrote:

There will be gangs of rogues digging up gas pipes and hooking a
free
supply into every home in Britain soon

Er, that's Transco (or whoever they've been rebranded as this week).
The only thing that makes the supply non-free is the meter.

The difference between petrol/derv and gas prices is that the former
are heavily taxed so that when oil prices triple the pump price
doesn't.

I'm expecting a lot of people to get quite serious about gas saving
now. Gas fires (to heat one room no the whole house) may even make a
come back.

They are hopelessly inefficient.

We are not talking about the same products. The ones I mean are about
75%
efficient and heat one room very effectively using much less gas than a
100% efficient central hating system.

If they only manage 75% they use more gas than my CH system to heat one
room.
CH is more efficient if you have proper controls. 00

If you take the scenario maintaining a living room at say 21°C and the
rest of the house say 18°C then using a gas fire in the living room as
a 'top up' must be more efficient than maintaining the whole house, or
even a zone, at 21°C.

I suppose it may be possible to create a zone of one room but that
sounds a 'stretch'.

I have five rooms on zone valves, so yes its quite easy.


I am really interested in this topic being in the fuel poverty class
and 'geriatric I need to find the most efficient way to minimize
heating cost of my home.

Geriatric? You don't want a fire then.
Too dangerous.
As you appear to be semi illiterate perhaps this will help:
Geriatric=of or related to aged

Being aged it doesn't equate to stupidity or loss of capability. I
wish that could apply to many others not aged.

Why do you think the government installs free CH for the vulnerable elderly?
I have no idea other than to heat the whole house. Heating the whole
house isn't the issue but doing so economically is. Incidentally what
is meant by 'vulnerable' in the context quoted?

PS don't bother demanding Centrica's profits back either.. if you took them
all and shared them out it is less than £100 per customer and most of the
profit is from industry anyway so householders would only get a few quid.
Its better they support the vulnerable more.

"Edward W. Thompson" wrote in message
news

On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 07:57:33 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:



"Edward W. Thompson" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:36:56 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:



"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:28:38 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:01:00 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:35:52 +0000, Phil L wrote:

There will be gangs of rogues digging up gas pipes and hooking a
free
supply into every home in Britain soon

Er, that's Transco (or whoever they've been rebranded as this
week).
The only thing that makes the supply non-free is the meter.

The difference between petrol/derv and gas prices is that the former
are heavily taxed so that when oil prices triple the pump price
doesn't.

I'm expecting a lot of people to get quite serious about gas saving
now. Gas fires (to heat one room no the whole house) may even make a
come back.

They are hopelessly inefficient.

We are not talking about the same products. The ones I mean are about
75%
efficient and heat one room very effectively using much less gas than
a
100% efficient central hating system.

If they only manage 75% they use more gas than my CH system to heat one
room.
CH is more efficient if you have proper controls. 00

If you take the scenario maintaining a living room at say 21°C and the
rest of the house say 18°C then using a gas fire in the living room as
a 'top up' must be more efficient than maintaining the whole house, or
even a zone, at 21°C.

I suppose it may be possible to create a zone of one room but that
sounds a 'stretch'.

I have five rooms on zone valves, so yes its quite easy.


I am really interested in this topic being in the fuel poverty class
and 'geriatric I need to find the most efficient way to minimize
heating cost of my home.

Geriatric? You don't want a fire then.
Too dangerous.
As you appear to be semi illiterate perhaps this will help:

As you appear to be a PITA sod off.

In article ,
Edward W. Thompson wrote:
If they only manage 75% they use more gas than my CH system to heat one
room.
CH is more efficient if you have proper controls. 00

If you take the scenario maintaining a living room at say 21°C and the
rest of the house say 18°C then using a gas fire in the living room as
a 'top up' must be more efficient than maintaining the whole house, or
even a zone, at 21°C.

I suppose it may be possible to create a zone of one room but that
sounds a 'stretch'.

Well mine seems to manage ok using TRVs. Of course if you wish to cut off
the heating entirely from some rooms for parts of the day you need
something more sophisticated - but you'd then need to make sure doors are
kept closed. But unless you're confined to an armchair do you really want
the living area at 21C all day? I have mine at 18C during the day and only
ramp it up to 21 for the evenings.

I am really interested in this topic being in the fuel poverty class
and 'geriatric I need to find the most efficient way to minimize
heating cost of my home.

--
*The older you get, the better you realize you were.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 21:45:09 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:36:56 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:28:38 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:01:00 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:35:52 +0000, Phil L wrote:

There will be gangs of rogues digging up gas pipes and hooking a
free supply into every home in Britain soon

Er, that's Transco (or whoever they've been rebranded as this
week). The only thing that makes the supply non-free is the meter.

The difference between petrol/derv and gas prices is that the
former are heavily taxed so that when oil prices triple the pump
price doesn't.

I'm expecting a lot of people to get quite serious about gas saving
now. Gas fires (to heat one room no the whole house) may even make
a come back.

They are hopelessly inefficient.

We are not talking about the same products. The ones I mean are about
75% efficient and heat one room very effectively using much less gas
than a 100% efficient central hating system.

If they only manage 75% they use more gas than my CH system to heat
one room.
CH is more efficient if you have proper controls.

There are losses associated with:
the pipework.
letting by of the closed valves
to name a couple of things.

Depending on a lot of variables it may or may not use less gas to heat
one room directly or indirectly.


You supplied the figures that show CH with proper controls is cheaper.

(I already knew.)

The operative is _proper_ controls. Onces are that are correctly
installed, correctly setup and in good working order. That's down to about
50% of the installed base of systems.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 21:45:09 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

8

The operative is _proper_ controls. Onces are that are correctly
installed, correctly setup and in good working order. That's down to about
50% of the installed base of systems.

Somewhat less than that I expect, most only have a room stat and TRVs, not a
proper control system.
However they are still probably cheaper to heat one room than a gas fire.
CH starts out more efficient and what heat is "wasted" heats the rest of the
house so preventing damp that the gas fire doesn't do.