I've got a couple of sets of plug cutters - for cutting wood plugs to fill
screw holes, etc. But what to use for the perfect hole to fit them to?
The same nominal size Forstner bits produces too large a hole for a tight
fit. I do have by chance a router bit that is ideal for 1/2" ones - but
nothing for the other sizes. Other wood bits tend to leave a rather ragged
edge.

--
*I speak fluent patriarchy but it's not my mother tongue

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:48:04 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

I've got a couple of sets of plug cutters - for cutting wood plugs to fill
screw holes, etc. But what to use for the perfect hole to fit them to?
The same nominal size Forstner bits produces too large a hole for a tight
fit. I do have by chance a router bit that is ideal for 1/2" ones - but
nothing for the other sizes. Other wood bits tend to leave a rather ragged
edge.

Welcome to the club.

Only solution I ever found was to get a cheap set of the flat wood
bits and spend time with a vice and file until the core matched the
hole from the filed bit.

As the bit edges are flat they are not too much trouble to file.

Lip and spur bits. The very good makers of plug cutters (Clico - try
Axminster) do matching lip and spur bits for their plug cutters, but
IME any reasonable lip and spur bit (e.g. Bosch) is up to the job.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I've got a couple of sets of plug cutters - for cutting wood plugs to fill
screw holes, etc. But what to use for the perfect hole to fit them to?
The same nominal size Forstner bits produces too large a hole for a tight
fit. I do have by chance a router bit that is ideal for 1/2" ones - but
nothing for the other sizes. Other wood bits tend to leave a rather ragged
edge.

I normally use a lip 'n' spur bit. Gives a clean hole, and the size
match is usually ok.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
I've got a couple of sets of plug cutters - for cutting wood plugs to fill
screw holes, etc. But what to use for the perfect hole to fit them to?
The same nominal size Forstner bits produces too large a hole for a tight
fit. I do have by chance a router bit that is ideal for 1/2" ones - but
nothing for the other sizes. Other wood bits tend to leave a rather ragged
edge.

--
*I speak fluent patriarchy but it's not my mother tongue

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I just bought this set:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/35920/...utter-Set-4-Pc

in which the screwdiggers seem to produce the right size of hole for the
plugs the cutters produce.

On 29/07/2008 05:45, rrh wrote:

I just bought this set:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/35920/...utter-Set-4-Pc

The reviews don't look encouraging ...

In article ,
rrh wrote:
I just bought this set:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/35920/...utter-Set-4-Pc

in which the screwdiggers seem to produce the right size of hole for the
plugs the cutters produce.

The snag with those is I may not always want a through hole - I've used
plugs to replace old screw holes etc rather than filling. I do have some
of those drills and they're very slow at making the countersunk hole.

--
*A hangover is the wrath of grapes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
EricP wrote:
Only solution I ever found was to get a cheap set of the flat wood
bits and spend time with a vice and file until the core matched the
hole from the filed bit.

They tend to give a pretty rough edge to the hole - no better than a twist
drill. They're really designed for speed rather than accuracy.

--
*All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
wrote:
Lip and spur bits. The very good makers of plug cutters (Clico - try
Axminster) do matching lip and spur bits for their plug cutters, but
IME any reasonable lip and spur bit (e.g. Bosch) is up to the job.

I've got some lip and spur drills but it's the same problem - they give a
clearance rather than interference fit. Although I must admit not having a
big selection of them - perhaps I just need to buy ones which are the
actual correct size for what I need.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2008-07-29 08:57:06 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article ,
rrh wrote:
I just bought this set:


http://www.screwfix.com/prods/35920/...utter-Set-4-Pc

in

which the screwdiggers seem to produce the right size of hole for the
plugs the cutters produce.

The snag with those is I may not always want a through hole - I've used
plugs to replace old screw holes etc rather than filling. I do have some
of those drills and they're very slow at making the countersunk hole.

Have a look at Axminster part number 300532. This is a set of plug
cutters and shaped drills for the holes which match properly. You
can adjust the drills such that the front thinnest part is very short
and not a through drill.

In article 488ecff2@qaanaaq,
Andy Hall wrote:
which the screwdiggers seem to produce the right size of hole for the
plugs the cutters produce.

The snag with those is I may not always want a through hole - I've used
plugs to replace old screw holes etc rather than filling. I do have some
of those drills and they're very slow at making the countersunk hole.

Have a look at Axminster part number 300532. This is a set of plug
cutters and shaped drills for the holes which match properly. You
can adjust the drills such that the front thinnest part is very short
and not a through drill.

Indeed you can - I've got several of this sort of combination bit and
forgot you can adjust the position on the drill. But I'm actually ok for
hiding screw heads - I have a router cutter which is the right size and
works ok in a drill. It's the larger sizes that are more of a problem.

What I think I need is Forstner bits designed for the job. I don't have a
big selection of these so perhaps need to see if there is a metric one
which gives the correct hole for an imperial plug cutter - or vice versa.
Lip and spur drills tend to pull themselves in rather too easily if you're
working with a hand held drill.

--
*Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2008-07-29 09:25:06 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article 488ecff2@qaanaaq,
Andy Hall wrote:
which the screwdiggers seem to produce the right size of hole for the
plugs the cutters produce.

The snag with those is I may not always want a through hole - I've used
plugs to replace old screw holes etc rather than filling. I do have some
of those drills and they're very slow at making the countersunk hole.

Have a look at Axminster part number 300532. This is a set of plug
cutters and shaped drills for the holes which match properly. You
can adjust the drills such that the front thinnest part is very short
and not a through drill.

Indeed you can - I've got several of this sort of combination bit and
forgot you can adjust the position on the drill. But I'm actually ok for
hiding screw heads - I have a router cutter which is the right size and
works ok in a drill. It's the larger sizes that are more of a problem.

What I think I need is Forstner bits designed for the job. I don't have a
big selection of these so perhaps need to see if there is a metric one
which gives the correct hole for an imperial plug cutter - or vice versa.
Lip and spur drills tend to pull themselves in rather too easily if you're
working with a hand held drill.

You shouldn't need to do this. Are you drilling on a drill press or
in situ? If it's the latter then you could fit a small portable
stand/depth stop to the drill to prevent it from pulling in.

Could you actually give some numbers for the diameter of plugs you're
using please?

Plug cutters over half an inch are less common, and lip and spur are
available up to that size.

Above that size, I'd look at using auger bits rather than forstner
bits (and definitely not flat bits!). IME lip and spur don't tend to
pull in at all, whether on a drill press, handheld power drill or hand
drilling. By their nature auger bits do pull in (and forstner can be
all or nothing), so augers are not suitable for a drill press at all,
and power drills need very good low speed control - but they produce
good parallel-sided holes in larger diameters.

As ever, sharp drill bits make all the difference - a dull bit will
still cut, but will require too much drilling pressure to be easily
controllable.

In article 488eda64@qaanaaq,
Andy Hall wrote:
What I think I need is Forstner bits designed for the job. I don't
have a big selection of these so perhaps need to see if there is a
metric one which gives the correct hole for an imperial plug cutter -
or vice versa. Lip and spur drills tend to pull themselves in rather
too easily if you're working with a hand held drill.

You shouldn't need to do this. Are you drilling on a drill press or
in situ? If it's the latter then you could fit a small portable
stand/depth stop to the drill to prevent it from pulling in.

Be better to find a cutter that does the job properly IMHO.

--
*Don't use no double negatives *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
wrote:
Could you actually give some numbers for the diameter of plugs you're
using please?

1/4, 5/16, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8.

Plug cutters over half an inch are less common, and lip and spur are
available up to that size.

They are - and are ok except when an existing hole is there. Ie ok when
drilling fresh wood. But the same applies - a 1/4" one gives a 1/4" hole
and leaves the plug loose.

Above that size, I'd look at using auger bits rather than forstner
bits (and definitely not flat bits!). IME lip and spur don't tend to
pull in at all, whether on a drill press, handheld power drill or hand
drilling. By their nature auger bits do pull in (and forstner can be
all or nothing), so augers are not suitable for a drill press at all,
and power drills need very good low speed control - but they produce
good parallel-sided holes in larger diameters.

As ever, sharp drill bits make all the difference - a dull bit will
still cut, but will require too much drilling pressure to be easily
controllable.

I obviously need some form of mill rather than drill. The forstner ones I
have would be ideal (to me) if only I could get the right size.

[Thinks] - perhaps I could get them ground down to what I need?

--
*Warning: Dates in Calendar are closer than they appear.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2008-07-29 13:27:18 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article 488eda64@qaanaaq,
Andy Hall wrote:
What I think I need is Forstner bits designed for the job. I don't
have a big selection of these so perhaps need to see if there is a
metric one which gives the correct hole for an imperial plug cutter -
or vice versa. Lip and spur drills tend to pull themselves in rather
too easily if you're working with a hand held drill.

You shouldn't need to do this. Are you drilling on a drill press or
in situ? If it's the latter then you could fit a small portable
stand/depth stop to the drill to prevent it from pulling in.

Be better to find a cutter that does the job properly IMHO.

I've never had a problem with sets like this into either soft or hard
woods. The plugs end up being a good interference fit. I can
imagine that trying to drill the holes with a hand held drill is not
going to be optimal though.

You sound to be making this difficult - plugs should be EASY!

Go out and buy a new plug cutter and lip & spur drill:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/category-...ugs-207896.htm

I use a 13mm cutter/drill pair - in fact it's the only one I have or
need - big enough to get the head of a 6mm screw down inside. Cordless
drill for the hole (then drill pilot/clearance hole for the screw
inside that), drill press for the plug - dab of glue and tap in - no
extra tinkering required.

(for cabinet work, you leave the plug slightly proud until the glue
goes off, and plane in)

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:48:04 +0100 Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
I've got a couple of sets of plug cutters - for cutting wood plugs to fill
screw holes, etc. But what to use for the perfect hole to fit them to?
The same nominal size Forstner bits produces too large a hole for a tight
fit. I do have by chance a router bit that is ideal for 1/2" ones - but
nothing for the other sizes. Other wood bits tend to leave a rather ragged
edge.

I just gave my set away on Freecycle. ISTM that a better design would have
been to have to designed them so that each drilled a hole that would fit the
next larger one's plug (largest excepted of course). You'd need to drill a
slightly undersized starter hole first of course.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

In article ,
Tony Bryer wrote:
ISTM that a better design would have been to have to designed them so
that each drilled a hole that would fit the next larger one's plug
(largest excepted of course). You'd need to drill a slightly undersized
starter hole first of course.

Yup - that had occurred to me too.

--
*The average person falls asleep in seven minutes *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
wrote:

You sound to be making this difficult - plugs should be EASY!

Go out and buy a new plug cutter and lip & spur drill:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/category-...ugs-207896.htm

Err, I've already got several good quality plug cutters and a number of
lip and spur drills.

I use a 13mm cutter/drill pair - in fact it's the only one I have or
need - big enough to get the head of a 6mm screw down inside.

My requirements are different to yours, then.

Cordless drill for the hole (then drill pilot/clearance hole for the
screw inside that), drill press for the plug - dab of glue and tap in -
no extra tinkering required.

(for cabinet work, you leave the plug slightly proud until the glue
goes off, and plane in)

Is there any other way?

--
*Life is hard; then you nap

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:48:04 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

I've got a couple of sets of plug cutters - for cutting wood plugs to fill
screw holes, etc. But what to use for the perfect hole to fit them to?
The same nominal size Forstner bits produces too large a hole for a tight
fit. I do have by chance a router bit that is ideal for 1/2" ones - but
nothing for the other sizes. Other wood bits tend to leave a rather ragged
edge.

'ere, mate, this is just wot you need:

http://www.dick.biz/cgi-bin/dick.storefront/48901fce000224a0274050f3360905d9/Product/View/717255

(cone-shaped drill, cone-shaped plug cutter, Japanese, for massive amounts of
money.)

Have you tried grinding the outer circumference of a Forstner bit to make it
smaller? Might work, though I'd try it on a cheap one first, mind.


Thomas Prufer

In article ,
Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:48:04 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

I've got a couple of sets of plug cutters - for cutting wood plugs to
fill screw holes, etc. But what to use for the perfect hole to fit them
to? The same nominal size Forstner bits produces too large a hole for a
tight fit. I do have by chance a router bit that is ideal for 1/2" ones
- but nothing for the other sizes. Other wood bits tend to leave a
rather ragged edge.

'ere, mate, this is just wot you need:

http://www.dick.biz/cgi-bin/dick.storefront/48901fce000224a0274050f3360905d9/Product/View/717255

(cone-shaped drill, cone-shaped plug cutter, Japanese, for massive
amounts of money.)

Unfortunately that just gives the home page on my browser and my German
ain't up to much. But it sounds just what I need. Like all tools I don't
mind paying if it does exactly what I want.

Have you tried grinding the outer circumference of a Forstner bit to
make it smaller? Might work, though I'd try it on a cheap one first,
mind.

I did think of that but don't have the correct machinery to do it here.


Thomas Prufer

--
*Don't squat with your spurs on *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:10:27 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Unfortunately that just gives the home page on my browser and my German
ain't up to much. But it sounds just what I need. Like all tools I don't
mind paying if it does exactly what I want.

I see that now -- I'd *told* it give me just the frame...

Search for "717255", alternatively "Japanisches Astloch-Reparaturset" --
beware, 128 Euros, unshipped!

But as tight a fit as you can pound it, and no need to drill at right angles to
the surface.

Have you tried grinding the outer circumference of a Forstner bit to
make it smaller? Might work, though I'd try it on a cheap one first,
mind.

I did think of that but don't have the correct machinery to do it here.

I'd just offer it up to a bench grinder, and take a bit off the circumference by
eye. (I had some Forstner bits where some genius had sharpened them with a
scraper on the inside, after drilling them blue. Gently going round them on a
bench grinder took off the bit that had been flared by the scraper, and restored
them to some semblance of usefulness.)


Thomas Prufer

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-07-29 13:27:18 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article 488eda64@qaanaaq,
Andy Hall wrote:
What I think I need is Forstner bits designed for the job. I don't
have a big selection of these so perhaps need to see if there is a
metric one which gives the correct hole for an imperial plug
cutter - or vice versa. Lip and spur drills tend to pull
themselves in rather too easily if you're working with a hand held
drill.

You shouldn't need to do this. Are you drilling on a drill press
or in situ? If it's the latter then you could fit a small portable
stand/depth stop to the drill to prevent it from pulling in.

Be better to find a cutter that does the job properly IMHO.

I've never had a problem with sets like this into either soft or hard
woods. The plugs end up being a good interference fit. I can
imagine that trying to drill the holes with a hand held drill is not
going to be optimal though.

I would say almost imposible. I have a 'set' like you mention & use the
plug cutters in a drill press - the instructions specifically mention using
one.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I've never had a problem with sets like this into either soft or hard
woods. The plugs end up being a good interference fit. I can
imagine that trying to drill the holes with a hand held drill is not
going to be optimal though.

I would say almost imposible. I have a 'set' like you mention & use the
plug cutters in a drill press - the instructions specifically mention
using one.

No problem cutting the plug in a press - but having to drill the hole it
goes into like that limits the uses somewhat.

--


Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2008-08-01 00:20:07 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I've never had a problem with sets like this into either soft or hard
woods. The plugs end up being a good interference fit. I can
imagine that trying to drill the holes with a hand held drill is not
going to be optimal though.

I would say almost imposible. I have a 'set' like you mention & use the
plug cutters in a drill press - the instructions specifically mention
using one.

No problem cutting the plug in a press - but having to drill the hole it
goes into like that limits the uses somewhat.

Which is why some kind of jig to make a hole square to the surface is a
good idea.

Try a drill press then a freehand hole and compare.

In article 48924c22@qaanaaq,
Andy Hall wrote:
No problem cutting the plug in a press - but having to drill the hole
it goes into like that limits the uses somewhat.

Which is why some kind of jig to make a hole square to the surface is a
good idea.

Try a drill press then a freehand hole and compare.

The problem is always at the very top of the hole if using a normal drill
- splintering etc. Which I can get round by using a forstner type. If only
I could get ones of the correct diameter - or other types that give as
clean a start. In my case it's got nothing to do with hand held drilling.

--
*Indian Driver - Smoke signals only*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2008-08-01 08:10:07 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article 48924c22@qaanaaq,
Andy Hall wrote:
No problem cutting the plug in a press - but having to drill the hole
it goes into like that limits the uses somewhat.

Which is why some kind of jig to make a hole square to the surface is a
good idea.

Try a drill press then a freehand hole and compare.

The problem is always at the very top of the hole if using a normal drill
- splintering etc. Which I can get round by using a forstner type. If only
I could get ones of the correct diameter - or other types that give as
clean a start. In my case it's got nothing to do with hand held drilling.

Ah. The cutter set that I have has a small pilot drill but the main
part is more akin to a countersink bit but with sharp flutes. It
doesn't tear out at all.

In article 4892c814@qaanaaq,
Andy Hall wrote:
The problem is always at the very top of the hole if using a normal
drill - splintering etc. Which I can get round by using a forstner
type. If only I could get ones of the correct diameter - or other
types that give as clean a start. In my case it's got nothing to do
with hand held drilling.

Ah. The cutter set that I have has a small pilot drill but the main
part is more akin to a countersink bit but with sharp flutes. It
doesn't tear out at all.

Indeed - I have some of the same. But haven't yet had a play with them to
see if they work - they're actually combination bits rather than part of a
plug set so may not be the correct diameter. Might as well just have a
punt and order the set from Axminster.

--
*If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I've never had a problem with sets like this into either soft or
hard woods. The plugs end up being a good interference fit.
I can imagine that trying to drill the holes with a hand held drill
is not going to be optimal though.

I would say almost imposible. I have a 'set' like you mention & use
the plug cutters in a drill press - the instructions specifically
mention using one.

No problem cutting the plug in a press - but having to drill the hole
it goes into like that limits the uses somewhat.

I also have one of these :-)
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-A...uide-22269.htm

Very useful for jobs like yours (actually I have the adjustable one
http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/3/p...uide-21095.htm)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk