Well it is DIY!

I have ordered some extra RAM and I know I need to keep in contact with the
chassis of the PC to reduce static risks (although I don't have a wrist
strap). My specific question is - should I leave the PC plugged in so that
it is grounded (switched off at the socket of course).?

On 26/03/2008 12:51, John wrote:

I have ordered some extra RAM and I know I need to keep in contact with the
chassis of the PC to reduce static risks (although I don't have a wrist
strap). My specific question is - should I leave the PC plugged in so that
it is grounded (switched off at the socket of course).?

These days several parts of the motherboard will remain powered up by
the standby power that is available whenever the machine is plugged in,
so unless there is a physical power switch on the PSU itself (unlikely
these days) rather than a "soft" power button from the motherboard, I'd
say disconnect it.

Hold the DIMM/SIMM by the edges only, avoid touching the chips or the
contacts, and you'll be fine.

John wrote:
Well it is DIY!

I have ordered some extra RAM and I know I need to keep in contact with the
chassis of the PC to reduce static risks (although I don't have a wrist
strap). My specific question is - should I leave the PC plugged in so that
it is grounded (switched off at the socket of course).?


No.

Just have sweaty hands and touch the chassis before you plug the chips in.

OTOH, having it plugged in wont do you any harm either.

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:51:07 GMT
"John" wrote:

Well it is DIY!

I have ordered some extra RAM and I know I need to keep in contact with the
chassis of the PC to reduce static risks (although I don't have a wrist
strap). My specific question is - should I leave the PC plugged in so that
it is grounded (switched off at the socket of course).?




You know, in nearly 40 years in the IT industry, I have never, ever,
seen a static-damaged DIMM. The chances are very small that you will
have any trouble. Just don't wear any nylons

R.

TheOldFellow wrote:
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:51:07 GMT
"John" wrote:

Well it is DIY!

I have ordered some extra RAM and I know I need to keep in contact with the
chassis of the PC to reduce static risks (although I don't have a wrist
strap). My specific question is - should I leave the PC plugged in so that
it is grounded (switched off at the socket of course).?




You know, in nearly 40 years in the IT industry, I have never, ever,
seen a static-damaged DIMM. The chances are very small that you will
have any trouble. Just don't wear any nylons

R.

I have. Once. Perceptible 'snap' as we tried to plug it in. Winter,nylon
carpet, dry air..etc.

I think that in all my years of plugging chips in and out of other
stuff, I can count on the fingers of one hand static damaged stuff..yes,
in the early days before they had diode protection on the chips..one or
two maybe. Hard to say because when your job is designing stuff, you are
buggering around with live circuits and its a tossup as to whether it
was static or shorting the pins etc.

On 26 Mar, 13:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

OTOH, having it plugged in wont do you any harm either.

Having it plugged in is VERY likely to cause damage these days.

You're not only supplying an earth, you're supplying power to the PSU,
which is supplying power to at least part of the motherboard (on a
modern motherboard) - even if you think the PC is "switched off".

You really are as clueless as Drivel 8-(



Nor is grounding the PC a good idea anyway - _only_ if you're also
grounded yourself, such as through a wriststrap to a bench with an
earth terminal. The problem here isn't to "ground" things to earth,
it's to stop there being a _relative_ difference between one part and
the other, i.e. the PC case ground and your hands. If you're
ungrounded by a wrist strap and you're standing on a nylon carpet
wearing your best PVC fetishwear, then grounding the PC (but not you)
can often make things much worse. Ever walked through a clothes shop
on a dry winter day (low humidity, high static risk) and touched the
(grounded) hanger rails only to receive a shock through your fingers?

Your best approach is a wriststrap with a croc clip to the PC case.

Your second best (and very good) approach is simply to touch your
hands to the PC case steelwork before handling the elctronics.

On 26 Mar, 13:33, TheOldFellow wrote:

You know, in nearly 40 years in the IT industry, I have never, ever,
seen a static-damaged DIMM.

That 40 year old DIMM was made of tougher stuff.

TheOldFellow wrote:

You know, in nearly 40 years in the IT industry, I have never, ever,
seen a static-damaged DIMM. The chances are very small that you will
have any trouble. Just don't wear any nylons

Hmm, I've just had to replace a fried motherboard and 2Gb of RAM all
damaged by static. Some fool decided it would be a good idea to vacuum
clean the inside of a server without thinking about how much static a
vacuum cleaner can generate or taking precautions to ground the cleaner.

Andy Dingley wrote:

That 40 year old DIMM

Just what I was thinking...

was made of tougher stuff.

.... little round bits of ferrite, probably.

--
Andy

On Mar 26, 12:51*pm, "John" wrote:
Well it is DIY!

I have ordered some extra RAM and I know I need to keep in contact with the
chassis of the PC to reduce static risks (although I don't have a wrist
strap). My specific question is - should I leave the PC plugged in so that
it is grounded (switched off at the socket of course).?

Plugged in but switched off at the wall is a good idea - this ensures
the chassis is grounded.

Steve

On Mar 26, 2:03*pm, Andy Dingley wrote:
On 26 Mar, 13:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

OTOH, having it plugged in wont do you any harm either.

Having it plugged in is VERY likely to cause damage these days.

You're not only supplying an earth, you're supplying power to the PSU,
which is supplying power to at least part of the motherboard (on a
modern motherboard) - even if you think the PC is "switched off".

In that's your attitude, better make sure you take the battery out as
well.

MBQ

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:33:06 +0000, TheOldFellow
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:51:07 GMT
"John" wrote:

Well it is DIY!

I have ordered some extra RAM and I know I need to keep in contact with the
chassis of the PC to reduce static risks (although I don't have a wrist
strap). My specific question is - should I leave the PC plugged in so that
it is grounded (switched off at the socket of course).?



You know, in nearly 40 years in the IT industry, I have never, ever,
seen a static-damaged DIMM. The chances are very small that you will
have any trouble. Just don't wear any nylons

I dare say it isn't 'best practice' - but I agree with you.
I get most of my ram chips from the tip, have done for many years
now...they get handled, they get carried in pockets, they get shoved
into an assortment of machines in various states of powered-upness -
and the only time I've ever had a problem was with a stick of memory
on a much-abused test-bed machine that gave up the ghost of its own
accord after a good few years in service.

Of course, sod's law dictates that as soon as I buy myself some 'posh'
ram, complete with heatsinks and go-faster stripes, it'll go 'pop' the
moment I take it out of the packaging...

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Mar 26, 2:03 pm, Andy Dingley wrote:
On 26 Mar, 13:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

OTOH, having it plugged in wont do you any harm either.

Having it plugged in is VERY likely to cause damage these days.

You're not only supplying an earth, you're supplying power to the PSU,
which is supplying power to at least part of the motherboard (on a
modern motherboard) - even if you think the PC is "switched off".

In that's your attitude, better make sure you take the battery out as
well.

If its a laptop.. YES.
You don't need to worry about the lithium cell as that is in an isolated
circuit.

MBQ

On 26 Mar, 14:29, Andy Wade wrote:

... little round bits of ferrite, probably.

That stuff was actually pretty fragile. The sense amplifier front-end
(the single wire that snaked through every core) was a bit of a garage
queen in its own right.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On 26 Mar, 13:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

OTOH, having it plugged in wont do you any harm either.

Having it plugged in is VERY likely to cause damage these days.

You're not only supplying an earth, you're supplying power to the PSU,
which is supplying power to at least part of the motherboard (on a
modern motherboard) - even if you think the PC is "switched off".

You really are as clueless as Drivel 8-(



Nor is grounding the PC a good idea anyway - _only_ if you're also
grounded yourself, such as through a wriststrap to a bench with an
earth terminal. The problem here isn't to "ground" things to earth,
it's to stop there being a _relative_ difference between one part and
the other, i.e. the PC case ground and your hands. If you're
ungrounded by a wrist strap and you're standing on a nylon carpet
wearing your best PVC fetishwear, then grounding the PC (but not you)
can often make things much worse. Ever walked through a clothes shop
on a dry winter day (low humidity, high static risk) and touched the
(grounded) hanger rails only to receive a shock through your fingers?

Your best approach is a wriststrap with a croc clip to the PC case.

Your second best (and very good) approach is simply to touch your
hands to the PC case steelwork before handling the elctronics.

Thanks - I did however state I would switch off the socket.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On 26 Mar, 13:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

OTOH, having it plugged in wont do you any harm either.

Having it plugged in is VERY likely to cause damage these days.

You're not only supplying an earth, you're supplying power to the PSU,
which is supplying power to at least part of the motherboard (on a
modern motherboard) - even if you think the PC is "switched off".

You really are as clueless as Drivel 8-(


He was responding to the OP who said "(switched off at socket of course)".
As you consider yourself not clueless, clearly, how does power get to the
PSU with the socket turned off?


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

On Mar 26, 2:57*pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in ...

On Mar 26, 2:03 pm, Andy Dingley wrote:
On 26 Mar, 13:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

OTOH, having it plugged in wont do you any harm either.

Having it plugged in is VERY likely to cause damage these days.

You're not only supplying an earth, you're supplying power to the PSU,
which is supplying power to at least part of the motherboard (on a
modern motherboard) - even if you think the PC is "switched off".

In that's your attitude, better make sure you take the battery out as
well.

If its a laptop.. YES.
You don't need to worry about the lithium cell as that is in an isolated
circuit.

Maybe I should have added a smiley.

On 26 Mar, 14:32, stevelup wrote:
On Mar 26, 12:51 pm, "John" wrote:

Well it is DIY!

I have ordered some extra RAM and I know I need to keep in contact with the
chassis of the PC to reduce static risks (although I don't have a wrist
strap). My specific question is - should I leave the PC plugged in so that
it is grounded (switched off at the socket of course).?

Plugged in but switched off at the wall is a good idea - this ensures
the chassis is grounded.

Steve

But do remember John, that it's the static discharge that does the
damage (a short peak of quite high current from the high static
voltage) and that wrist straps etc have a 1M ohm resistance so that
the static voltage can leak away at a controlled rate.

These components all cost too much for the private individual to take
any risks. I do get a slight feeling from one or two of the posts
that being gung-ho about it in the lab is OK as the company will pay
for a replacement. Been there, done it so don't take offence guys -
just as guilty.

Rob

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:21:55 -0000
"Bob Mannix" wrote:

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On 26 Mar, 13:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

OTOH, having it plugged in wont do you any harm either.

Having it plugged in is VERY likely to cause damage these days.

You're not only supplying an earth, you're supplying power to the PSU,
which is supplying power to at least part of the motherboard (on a
modern motherboard) - even if you think the PC is "switched off".

You really are as clueless as Drivel 8-(


He was responding to the OP who said "(switched off at socket of course)".
As you consider yourself not clueless, clearly, how does power get to the
PSU with the socket turned off?


Clearly one of those Clued-up Google Groups guys, who know
everything. Which explains why I didn't see his post (Google Groups
filtered out).

The big question, of course, is: Is it Red or Green Electricity? As
this will affect the polarity of the static. Which in turn will decide
if the diode protection will work or not.

R.

Andy Dingley wrote:
snip

Your best approach is a wriststrap with a croc clip to the PC case.

Your second best (and very good) approach is simply to touch your
hands to the PC case steelwork before handling the elctronics.

... and in between the two is to roll your sleeves up, and keep a bit of
bare arm on the chassis.

I'm in favour of pulling the plug too. You just want to make sure that
the first contact is you to the case, and you maintain that contact.

Andy

John wrote:
Well it is DIY!

I have ordered some extra RAM and I know I need to keep in contact
with the chassis of the PC to reduce static risks (although I don't
have a wrist strap). My specific question is - should I leave the PC
plugged in so that it is grounded (switched off at the socket of
course).?

Doesn't really matter, but won't hurt to.

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
John wrote:
Well it is DIY!

I have ordered some extra RAM and I know I need to keep in contact
with the chassis of the PC to reduce static risks (although I don't
have a wrist strap). My specific question is - should I leave the PC
plugged in so that it is grounded (switched off at the socket of
course).?

Doesn't really matter, but won't hurt to.


What about unpacking the memory - it may have a charge that is different to
mine and the case. How is this equalised?

In message , John
writes
Well it is DIY!

I have ordered some extra RAM and I know I need to keep in contact with the
chassis of the PC to reduce static risks (although I don't have a wrist
strap). My specific question is - should I leave the PC plugged in so that
it is grounded (switched off at the socket of course).?

Sound exactly right to me. Make sure the mains switch is off and hold
the chassis when you need to handle the components or touch the
motherboard.


--
Clint Sharp

John wrote:
"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
John wrote:
Well it is DIY!

I have ordered some extra RAM and I know I need to keep in contact
with the chassis of the PC to reduce static risks (although I don't
have a wrist strap). My specific question is - should I leave the PC
plugged in so that it is grounded (switched off at the socket of
course).?

Doesn't really matter, but won't hurt to.


What about unpacking the memory - it may have a charge that is
different to mine and the case. How is this equalised?

Via your hand holding it and another part of your body grounded to the
chasis.

John wrote:

What about unpacking the memory - it may have a charge that is different to
mine and the case. How is this equalised?


The container should be ever-so-slightly conductive. So pick up the
container, and take the RAM out of it, DON'T put the RAM down and it'll
be fine. Then connect yourself to the chassis before touching the RAM
to the motherboard, and maintain your connection (holding the chassis,
or touching it with an elbow is fine, but requires discipline). If you
feel an urge to put the RAM down anywhere, put it back in the packet -
picking the packet up before touching the RAM to it - or put it down on
a spare bit of the chassis *while touching the chassis*.

Andy

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...
John wrote:

What about unpacking the memory - it may have a charge that is different
to mine and the case. How is this equalised?
The container should be ever-so-slightly conductive. So pick up the
container, and take the RAM out of it, DON'T put the RAM down and it'll be
fine. Then connect yourself to the chassis before touching the RAM to the
motherboard, and maintain your connection (holding the chassis, or
touching it with an elbow is fine, but requires discipline). If you feel
an urge to put the RAM down anywhere, put it back in the packet - picking
the packet up before touching the RAM to it - or put it down on a spare
bit of the chassis *while touching the chassis*.

Andy

I'll wear my shorts and put it on my knee.

TheOldFellow wrote:

You know, in nearly 40 years in the IT industry, I have never, ever,
seen a static-damaged DIMM. The chances are very small that you will
have any trouble. Just don't wear any nylons

A common misunderstanding is that static damage results in fatal
component damage. Research in the defence and aerospace industries shows
that is only true in a little as 20% of the cases. The other 80% of the
time there will be damage caused that does not result in immediate
failure, but may manifest later as reduced component life, or other
malfunction.

So the moral of the story is that 8 times out of ten you will be
blissfully unaware that you have caused static damage at the time.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"TheOldFellow" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:51:07 GMT
"John" wrote:

Well it is DIY!

I have ordered some extra RAM and I know I need to keep in contact with
the
chassis of the PC to reduce static risks (although I don't have a wrist
strap). My specific question is - should I leave the PC plugged in so
that
it is grounded (switched off at the socket of course).?




You know, in nearly 40 years in the IT industry, I have never, ever,
seen a static-damaged DIMM. The chances are very small that you will
have any trouble. Just don't wear any nylons


They has DIMMs in 1967? ;-)
They did have 40 series C-MOS chips 20 years ago, I seemed
to destroy those by just looking at them.

--
Graham

%Profound_observation%

On 26/03/2008 16:59, robgraham wrote:

These components all cost too much for the private individual to take
any risks.

You what, with 1GB of RAM for about £15? I remember worrying about
512byte chips ...

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:17:01 +0000
John Rumm wrote:

TheOldFellow wrote:

You know, in nearly 40 years in the IT industry, I have never, ever,
seen a static-damaged DIMM. The chances are very small that you will
have any trouble. Just don't wear any nylons

A common misunderstanding is that static damage results in fatal
component damage. Research in the defence and aerospace industries shows
that is only true in a little as 20% of the cases. The other 80% of the
time there will be damage caused that does not result in immediate
failure, but may manifest later as reduced component life, or other
malfunction.

So the moral of the story is that 8 times out of ten you will be
blissfully unaware that you have caused static damage at the time.



Now that is interesting, and to me, new information. Thanks, John. It
makes a lot of sense. And goes to prove what a useful Usenet Group
this is.

I'd just like to point out, saving another post, that I never said that
DIMMs were around in 1967, but that I was. Old CMOS chips are another
question, the OP was asking about DIMMS.

R.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 26 Mar, 13:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

OTOH, having it plugged in wont do you any harm either.

Having it plugged in is VERY likely to cause damage these days.

He did say switched off at the wall IIRC.


You're not only supplying an earth, you're supplying power to the PSU,
which is supplying power to at least part of the motherboard (on a
modern motherboard) - even if you think the PC is "switched off".

You really are as clueless as Drivel 8-(


Read the original post.



Nor is grounding the PC a good idea anyway - _only_ if you're also
grounded yourself, such as through a wriststrap to a bench with an
earth terminal. The problem here isn't to "ground" things to earth,
it's to stop there being a _relative_ difference between one part and
the other, i.e. the PC case ground and your hands. If you're
ungrounded by a wrist strap and you're standing on a nylon carpet
wearing your best PVC fetishwear, then grounding the PC (but not you)
can often make things much worse. Ever walked through a clothes shop
on a dry winter day (low humidity, high static risk) and touched the
(grounded) hanger rails only to receive a shock through your fingers?


Gosh. And there I was thinking that everybody already knew all that ..I
giess spendong 30 years as an electronic engineer isn;t evrybodies
expereince.


Your best approach is a wriststrap with a croc clip to the PC case.

Totally overkill.



Your second best (and very good) approach is simply to touch your
hands to the PC case steelwork before handling the elctronics.


That works.

Bob Mannix wrote:
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On 26 Mar, 13:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

OTOH, having it plugged in wont do you any harm either.
Having it plugged in is VERY likely to cause damage these days.

You're not only supplying an earth, you're supplying power to the PSU,
which is supplying power to at least part of the motherboard (on a
modern motherboard) - even if you think the PC is "switched off".

You really are as clueless as Drivel 8-(


He was responding to the OP who said "(switched off at socket of course)".
As you consider yourself not clueless, clearly, how does power get to the
PSU with the socket turned off?


Andy has some gripe with me I think.

robgraham wrote:
On 26 Mar, 14:32, stevelup wrote:
On Mar 26, 12:51 pm, "John" wrote:

Well it is DIY!
I have ordered some extra RAM and I know I need to keep in contact with the
chassis of the PC to reduce static risks (although I don't have a wrist
strap). My specific question is - should I leave the PC plugged in so that
it is grounded (switched off at the socket of course).?
Plugged in but switched off at the wall is a good idea - this ensures
the chassis is grounded.

Steve

But do remember John, that it's the static discharge that does the
damage (a short peak of quite high current from the high static
voltage) and that wrist straps etc have a 1M ohm resistance so that
the static voltage can leak away at a controlled rate.

These components all cost too much

Slightly less than the petrol burnt to drive to the shop and buy one.

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Your best approach is a wriststrap with a croc clip to the PC case.

Totally overkill.
If the OP has a wrist strap I'd suggest using it, it's only overkill if
he doesn't have one, otherwise it's a sensible precaution. A bit like
having seatbelts in your car but not using them because 99.99% of the
time you'll be fine. If he doesn't then fine, just accept a slightly
higher risk of damaging the equipment. Wrist straps are cheap and easy
to get these days so if anyone's doing PC maintenance there's no excuse
for not having one.

Your second best (and very good) approach is simply to touch your
hands to the PC case steelwork before handling the elctronics.


That works.
Better is to hold the case or rest a forearm on it whilst handling the
components.
--
Clint Sharp

In article ,
John Rumm writes:
A common misunderstanding is that static damage results in fatal
component damage. Research in the defence and aerospace industries shows
that is only true in a little as 20% of the cases. The other 80% of the
time there will be damage caused that does not result in immediate
failure, but may manifest later as reduced component life, or other
malfunction.

So the moral of the story is that 8 times out of ten you will be
blissfully unaware that you have caused static damage at the time.

You beat me to it!

Likewise, having worked in the defence and aerospace industries,
I'm all too well aware of this. There aren't many industries which
can afford to investigate semicondutor failures. Depends on the
extent of the damage of course, but a ballpark figure is that
static damage (which hasn't instantly destroyed the semicondutor)
increases its chance of failure during service life by something
of the order 10,000 - 1,000,000 times. When a component does fail,
high magnification of the junction can be quite interesting. It
usually looks to have melted, and you can find nearby junctions
which have also melted but are amazingly still working, which is
the givaway that it was static damage. If these junctions which
are still working are tested, you find they won't conform to their
datasheet specs anymore. This means the component was out of spec
before the complete failure, and is a typical cause of computers
exposed to poor static handling procedures behaving badly, as Paul
Matthews mentions.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Paul Matthews wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
A common misunderstanding is that static damage results in fatal
component damage. Research in the defence and aerospace industries shows
that is only true in a little as 20% of the cases. The other 80% of the
time there will be damage caused that does not result in immediate
failure, but may manifest later as reduced component life, or other
malfunction.

Bingo!

Ever wonder why hobbyists often have unreliable PCs? part of is it constantly
fiddling with settings, and part poor staic precautions.

While I agree with the comments about static damage not manifesting
itself immediately I'm not at all sure about "wonder why hobbyists
often have unreliable PCs", do you have any evidence for this at all?

In my experience (only anecdotal but I have been working and playing
with PCs since the 1980s, and in the computer industry before that)
the *most* unreliable and full of glitches machines are those which
have messy software not those which have been taken apart and put
together lots of times.

--
Chris Green

Andy Burns wrote:
On 26/03/2008 16:59, robgraham wrote:

These components all cost too much for the private individual to take
any risks.

You what, with 1GB of RAM for about £15? I remember worrying about
512byte chips ...

The cost is in time and wasted effort chasing wierd and wonderful
faults, not the cost of the component.

--
Chris Green

John wrote:

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
John wrote:
Well it is DIY!

I have ordered some extra RAM and I know I need to keep in contact
with the chassis of the PC to reduce static risks (although I don't
have a wrist strap). My specific question is - should I leave the PC
plugged in so that it is grounded (switched off at the socket of
course).?

Doesn't really matter, but won't hurt to.


What about unpacking the memory - it may have a charge that is different to
mine and the case. How is this equalised?

It's (supposedly) in conductive packaging which you'll bring to the
same voltage as 'you' by touching the outside. Even if you don't the
electical 'mass' of the chip is relatively small so the charge that
will flow to/from it when you touch it is much less likely to damage
it than if (for example) you discharge yourself through it to the PC
chassis when you plug it in before you've connected yourself to the
PC by other means (i.e. wrist wire or touching the case).

--
Chris Green

On 27 Mar 2008 11:08:24 GMT, wrote:

Paul Matthews wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
A common misunderstanding is that static damage results in fatal
component damage. Research in the defence and aerospace industries shows
that is only true in a little as 20% of the cases. The other 80% of the
time there will be damage caused that does not result in immediate
failure, but may manifest later as reduced component life, or other
malfunction.

Bingo!

Ever wonder why hobbyists often have unreliable PCs? part of is it constantly
fiddling with settings, and part poor staic precautions.

While I agree with the comments about static damage not manifesting
itself immediately I'm not at all sure about "wonder why hobbyists
often have unreliable PCs", do you have any evidence for this at all?

In my experience (only anecdotal but I have been working and playing
with PCs since the 1980s, and in the computer industry before that)
the *most* unreliable and full of glitches machines are those which
have messy software not those which have been taken apart and put
together lots of times.

Same here. My computers stopped being unreliable when I stopped
fiddling around with the OS settings ( especially W9x )!

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

On Mar 27, 7:38*am, Paul Matthews wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
A common misunderstanding is that static damage results in fatal
component damage. Research in the defence and aerospace industries shows
that is only true in a little as 20% of the cases. The other 80% of the
time there will be damage caused that does not result in immediate
failure, but may manifest later as reduced component life, or other
malfunction.

Bingo!

Ever wonder why hobbyists often have unreliable PCs?

The last one I had that was unreliable was entirely my fault and
nothing to do with static. It was built with a verowire pen and used
16kx1 DRAMs with some very dodgy timing circuits.

MBQ