Suggestions please to bring my quicky install (but totally effective)
bodge up to code.

My bathrom had an electrical shower which I had removed.
I pulled the very hefty T&E cable up through the ceiling.
= Instant attic electricity supply !
Then a hefty chocolate block to a Homebase type, 4 way strip, 13A, 1m
extension lead (13A plug removed), so wired direct to choc block. The
4 way outlet is screwed to a roof truss.

So I have 4x 13A outlets with a florescent light connected to one
outlet via a 13A plug - that bit probably not too bad, I guess. At
least I can put in a small fuse.

I expect the following need attention (at least):
1. Change the 32A water heater breaker in the old Crabtree breaker box
(63A, 30mA trip RCCB, model SB6000) to 16A (?). STILL AVAILABLE (?)
2. Something rather more professional than a chocolate block connector
for joining. I expect I could take the T&E cable in directly to the 4
way outlet.
3. What about the 1m extension lead used in this manner ? Maybe find a
proper, garage type surface mount 4 way outlet

I expect the the first reaction is call in a local contractor and have
him legalise it, but I didn't need to post to heat that !

Thanks in advance.

Fred

Fred wrote:
Suggestions please to bring my quicky install (but totally effective)
bodge up to code.

My bathrom had an electrical shower which I had removed.
I pulled the very hefty T&E cable up through the ceiling.
= Instant attic electricity supply !
Then a hefty chocolate block to a Homebase type, 4 way strip, 13A, 1m
extension lead (13A plug removed), so wired direct to choc block. The
4 way outlet is screwed to a roof truss.

So I have 4x 13A outlets with a florescent light connected to one
outlet via a 13A plug - that bit probably not too bad, I guess. At
least I can put in a small fuse.

I expect the following need attention (at least):
1. Change the 32A water heater breaker in the old Crabtree breaker box
(63A, 30mA trip RCCB, model SB6000) to 16A (?). STILL AVAILABLE (?)
2. Something rather more professional than a chocolate block connector
for joining. I expect I could take the T&E cable in directly to the 4
way outlet.
3. What about the 1m extension lead used in this manner ? Maybe find a
proper, garage type surface mount 4 way outlet

I expect the the first reaction is call in a local contractor and have
him legalise it, but I didn't need to post to heat that !

Thanks in advance.

Fred


Just fit a double socket at the end of the shower cable in a surface
box, and change the label in the consumer unit. If you want some fixed
wired lights fit a fused spur unit next to the socket and then run the
lights in fixed cable.

Just fit a double socket at the end of the shower cable in a surface
box, and change the label in the consumer unit. If you want some fixed
wired lights fit a fused spur unit next to the socket and then run the
lights in fixed cable.

Thanks James for very prompt response.
Don't I need to change the 32A breaker in the consumer unit to 16A ?

Cheers,
Fred

On Mar 20, 2:08 pm, Fred wrote:
Just fit a double socket at the end of the shower cable in a surface
box, and change the label in the consumer unit. If you want some fixed
wired lights fit a fused spur unit next to the socket and then run the
lights in fixed cable.

Thanks James for very prompt response.
Don't I need to change the 32A breaker in the consumer unit to 16A ?

Don't see why. The cable (which is what the fuse was there to
protect) is still good for 32A. The double socket will be happy with
32A (well, it /might/ object above 26A, but that's practically the
same). Each plug that goes into the socket will be limited to 13A.

I'm not sure about the legitimacy of running a spur off the radial
circuit. In particular, I would be concerned about the cable to the
lighting fitting (and the fitting itself) not being happy with a 32A
current. The cheapest solution to that, is probably to plug the
lights into one of the double sockets.

Fred wrote:

My bathrom had an electrical shower which I had removed.
I pulled the very hefty T&E cable up through the ceiling.
= Instant attic electricity supply !

fair enough...

Then a hefty chocolate block to a Homebase type, 4 way strip, 13A, 1m
extension lead (13A plug removed), so wired direct to choc block. The
4 way outlet is screwed to a roof truss.

OK a few potential pitfalls he

The 4 way socket may not have its own internal fuse, and hence rely on
the plug one to limit possibility of overload. This has now been lost.

The short length of 13A flex is probably not adequately protected
against overload by the 32A breaker in the CU.

These trailing lead sockets are not really designed for permanent
installation.

So I have 4x 13A outlets with a florescent light connected to one
outlet via a 13A plug - that bit probably not too bad, I guess. At
least I can put in a small fuse.

Yup, 3A fuse in the plug should fix that.

I expect the following need attention (at least):
1. Change the 32A water heater breaker in the old Crabtree breaker box
(63A, 30mA trip RCCB, model SB6000) to 16A (?). STILL AVAILABLE (?)

one option... but

2. Something rather more professional than a chocolate block connector
for joining. I expect I could take the T&E cable in directly to the 4
way outlet.

You may have difficulty with the thick cable in the terminals etc.

It would be better to use a pair of ordinary double sockets on surface
boxes. If you get some of the TLC Ultimate range ones they have plenty
of terminal space for the bigger cable.

3. What about the 1m extension lead used in this manner ? Maybe find a
proper, garage type surface mount 4 way outlet

The extension lead is not a good idea - any normal set of sockets will
be fine.

The other option would be FCU in place of your chocky block, and then
wire sockets from there in more modest cable.

I expect the the first reaction is call in a local contractor and have
him legalise it, but I didn't need to post to heat that !

not from me!



--
Cheers,

John.

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On Mar 20, 2:47*pm, Martin Bonner wrote:
I'm not sure about the legitimacy of running a spur off the radial
circuit. *In particular, I would be concerned about the cable to the
lighting fitting (and the fitting itself) not being happy with a 32A
current.

That's why a *fused* spur was suggested. The implication being that
it's fused appropriately for the cable used.

MBQ

All very helpful.
This is a great NG.
Thanks very much.
Fred

Martin Bonner wrote:

Don't I need to change the 32A breaker in the consumer unit to 16A ?

Don't see why. The cable (which is what the fuse was there to
protect) is still good for 32A. The double socket will be happy with

The bit of flex that is attached to the 4 way socket however is not
rated for 32A...

32A (well, it /might/ object above 26A, but that's practically the
same). Each plug that goes into the socket will be limited to 13A.

I'm not sure about the legitimacy of running a spur off the radial
circuit.

There is no concept of a spur on a radial. A radial can have any number
of branches and deviations wherever you like, since the cable is rated
to carry the full circuit design load (unlike a ring where the cables
are in a load sharing arrangement)

In particular, I would be concerned about the cable to the
lighting fitting (and the fitting itself) not being happy with a 32A
current. The cheapest solution to that, is probably to plug the
lights into one of the double sockets.

I thought that is what he said he had done?


--
Cheers,

John.

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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mar 20, 8:19 pm, John Rumm wrote:
Martin Bonner wrote:
Don't I need to change the 32A breaker in the consumer unit to 16A ?

Don't see why. The cable (which is what the fuse was there to
protect) is still good for 32A. The double socket will be happy with

The bit of flex that is attached to the 4 way socket however is not
rated for 32A...

No, but that bit of cable fits into a 13A plug which goes into the
double socket. (I agree that the /current/ arrangement is not right,
I was talking about the arrangement after fitting a double socket.)

32A (well, it /might/ object above 26A, but that's practically the
same). Each plug that goes into the socket will be limited to 13A.

I'm not sure about the legitimacy of running a spur off the radial
circuit.

There is no concept of a spur on a radial. A radial can have any number
of branches and deviations wherever you like, since the cable is rated
to carry the full circuit design load (unlike a ring where the cables
are in a load sharing arrangement)

Ahh! I see. That makes a lot of sense. (I am fairly sure there is a
rule about spurs off spurs off rings - but that is, of course,
entirely different.)



In particular, I would be concerned about the cable to the
lighting fitting (and the fitting itself) not being happy with a 32A
current. The cheapest solution to that, is probably to plug the
lights into one of the double sockets.

I thought that is what he said he had done?

No. He has just connected the 6mm2 cable to the chopped-off end of
the extension cable with a big-arse bit of chocolate-block. James'
suggestion was to fit the double socket on the end of the fixed cable,
refit a plug to the extension cable, and plug it in. On the
assumption that most of the time the attic isn't being used, and this
is all about having power up there on the odd occasion when it is, I
don't think he needs to do more. (I know expect chapter and verse as
to why this is wrong.)

--
Cheers,

John.

Martin Bonner wrote:
On Mar 20, 8:19 pm, John Rumm wrote:
Martin Bonner wrote:
Don't I need to change the 32A breaker in the consumer unit to 16A ?
Don't see why. The cable (which is what the fuse was there to
protect) is still good for 32A. The double socket will be happy with
The bit of flex that is attached to the 4 way socket however is not
rated for 32A...

No, but that bit of cable fits into a 13A plug which goes into the
double socket. (I agree that the /current/ arrangement is not right,
I was talking about the arrangement after fitting a double socket.)

Ah, fair enough, thought you meant as it is now with the flex connected
vua a junction box rather than a plug.


There is no concept of a spur on a radial. A radial can have any number
of branches and deviations wherever you like, since the cable is rated
to carry the full circuit design load (unlike a ring where the cables
are in a load sharing arrangement)

Ahh! I see. That makes a lot of sense. (I am fairly sure there is a
rule about spurs off spurs off rings - but that is, of course,
entirely different.)

Yup, with unfused spurs off a ring, you can only have one single or
double socket on the spur in total and no further extensions. If you use
a fused spur then you can have any amount, but they will be limited to a
max load of 13A in total.


In particular, I would be concerned about the cable to the
lighting fitting (and the fitting itself) not being happy with a 32A
current. The cheapest solution to that, is probably to plug the
lights into one of the double sockets.
I thought that is what he said he had done?

No. He has just connected the 6mm2 cable to the chopped-off end of
the extension cable with a big-arse bit of chocolate-block. James'
suggestion was to fit the double socket on the end of the fixed cable,
refit a plug to the extension cable, and plug it in. On the

Maybe I misread it, but it sounded like the light was to be plugged into
a socket via a plug. This bit would be ok, even if the socket itself was
connected in a questionable way.

assumption that most of the time the attic isn't being used, and this
is all about having power up there on the odd occasion when it is, I
don't think he needs to do more. (I know expect chapter and verse as
to why this is wrong.)

Not at this time of the morning! ;-)

(plenty of lash ups can be perfectly safe in the hands of the lasher
upper - it only tends to be when they pass into new ownership that is
not conversant with the implicit limitations arising out of the esisting
design that problems can start).



--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

As (probably) a last word, I will do the following which after
studying the string I genuinely believe legit. The attic is for
occasional/storage use only.

1. I will simply relable the breaker section in the consumer unit to
"Attic"
2. I will not change it from 32A to 16A (The T&E wire pulled from the
bathroom is 32A)
3. I will fit a kosher 13A, double, suface-mount socket "direct" to
the T&E cable.
4. I will run the light from one outlet of the twin, surface mount
socket via a 13A plug with small fuse (3A). This for simplicity - no
fused spur issue.
5. I will arrange that a Homebase type, 4 outlet, 2m extension can
also plug into the 13A double, surface mount socket as required, via a
13A plug (just like at the back of the TV in the living room).

I seem to be very fortunate this has been such an easy way to provide
an attic electricity supply (getting rid of the bathroom electric
shower). Incidentally and a bit OT, a new big water tank (as high as
possible) and hot water off the plumbing provides a great shower. I
have no idea why the previous owners did what they did !

Thanks to all.

Fred

Fred wrote:
As (probably) a last word, I will do the following which after
studying the string I genuinely believe legit. The attic is for
occasional/storage use only.

1. I will simply relable the breaker section in the consumer unit to
"Attic"
2. I will not change it from 32A to 16A (The T&E wire pulled from the
bathroom is 32A)
3. I will fit a kosher 13A, double, suface-mount socket "direct" to
the T&E cable.
4. I will run the light from one outlet of the twin, surface mount
socket via a 13A plug with small fuse (3A). This for simplicity - no
fused spur issue.
5. I will arrange that a Homebase type, 4 outlet, 2m extension can
also plug into the 13A double, surface mount socket as required, via a
13A plug (just like at the back of the TV in the living room).

That all sounds fine. ;-)

I seem to be very fortunate this has been such an easy way to provide
an attic electricity supply (getting rid of the bathroom electric
shower). Incidentally and a bit OT, a new big water tank (as high as
possible) and hot water off the plumbing provides a great shower. I
have no idea why the previous owners did what they did !

I know what you mean, and I have seen people do it a number of times. I
think part of the issue is they look at the price of a decent shower
mixer and assume that a lekky shower will be cheaper and easy to fit.
Needless to say they don't find out the performance of them is poor in
comparison, and the price of laying on the power for them often costs
more than a decent mixer until too late.

--
Cheers,

John.

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| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/