I replaced the gate valves on the 22mm cold and HWC feeds this weekend.
It seemed a sensible thing to do, as the pipes are being built into a
wardrobe, and both valves had ceased.

When I got the old compression fittings and olives off (removing the
old olives was probably a mistake) the pipes were in quite poor
condition.

I tried get them back to shape and to smooth them. Sensing the new
joint wasn't going to work well, applied a few turns of PTFE - both
under the new olive, and over it.

Well, unsurprisingly, two of the four joints leaked. One of these was
cured by an extra 1/8th turn (but for how long?), but the other is
still slightly damped when touched.

It can't stay like this, because it's running down the back of a
wardrobe. Unfortunately, the pipe is running very close into the back
_corner_ of the wardrobe, and I can't see a way of cutting it back to
make a clean joint.

Suggestions?

Cheers,
David.

In article .com,
wrote:
I replaced the gate valves on the 22mm cold and HWC feeds this weekend.
It seemed a sensible thing to do, as the pipes are being built into a
wardrobe, and both valves had ceased.

When I got the old compression fittings and olives off (removing the
old olives was probably a mistake) the pipes were in quite poor
condition.

I tried get them back to shape and to smooth them. Sensing the new
joint wasn't going to work well, applied a few turns of PTFE - both
under the new olive, and over it.

I spent the weekend sealing leaks in compression fittings
following some good advice from others here, so...

dismantle the joints. Check that the olives are tight on
the pipe. Get rid of the PTFE from around the olive.
Try a smear of a non-setting jointing component like
Fernox LX, and re-assemble. Maybe add a turn of PTFE
to the threads, which does nothing to seal the joint,
but does act as a dry lubricant and might help you
tighten the joint more easily.

Good luck!

G.

It can't stay like this, because it's running down the back of a
wardrobe. Unfortunately, the pipe is running very close into the back
_corner_ of the wardrobe, and I can't see a way of cutting it back to
make a clean joint.

Suggestions?

I can't envisage a way of "bodging" what is essentially a knackered
pipe. So, is there any way that instead of cutting it back, you could
extend it forwards, by soldering on a new length of 22mm using a
straight coupler and then attaching a gate valve to that?

Without seeing the exact layout with the wardrobe and so on, it's a bit
difficult to make suggestions!

(Good Lord - your pipes must be completely deformed if you can get PTFE
tape *under* the olive! No wonder you can't get a good seal!)

Luke

Wingedcat wrote:

[snip]

I can't envisage a way of "bodging" what is essentially a knackered
pipe. So, is there any way that instead of cutting it back, you could
extend it forwards, by soldering on a new length of 22mm using a
straight coupler and then attaching a gate valve to that?

The idea of doing my first soldered joint in the back of a wardrobe
isn't filling me with joy!


Without seeing the exact layout with the wardrobe and so on, it's a bit
difficult to make suggestions!
_____
|o
|
|

That's looking from above, at the corner of a wardrobe with a pipe
running down it. It disappears into the roof.

(Good Lord - your pipes must be completely deformed if you can get PTFE
tape *under* the olive! No wonder you can't get a good seal!)

Reading around, I wonder if this is part of the problem. I probably
wrecked the pipes getting the old olives off (using adjustable spanner
and hammer - rather than hack saw and screw driver!), but the new
olives, though not _very_ lose, were quite lose - it took only a little
care to get them over a turn of PTFE tape around the pipes without
ripping the tape. Could it be imperial pipe? House was built in the
1950s, some of the pipes look younger than others.

Cheers,
David.

G.W. Walker wrote:

[snip]

I spent the weekend sealing leaks in compression fittings
following some good advice from others here, so...

Yes, I read your thread (and others view google groups search)

dismantle the joints. Check that the olives are tight on
the pipe. Get rid of the PTFE from around the olive.
Try a smear of a non-setting jointing component like
Fernox LX, and re-assemble. Maybe add a turn of PTFE
to the threads, which does nothing to seal the joint,
but does act as a dry lubricant and might help you
tighten the joint more easily.

Good luck!

Thanks. It sounds like losing the PTFE, getting the pipes as clean flat
and shiny as I can, and adding a little Boss White or Fernox LX(S?)
(because I know the joints are trouble from the start) sounds like a
plan.

I was using Vaseline / petroleum jelly on the threads anyway. I've done
them up too tight now, but that wasn't the original reason for the
leaks.

Cheers,
David.

Could it be imperial pipe? House was built in the
1950s, some of the pipes look younger than others.

It could well be David. You can get adaptor olives from a plumber's
merchant allowing you to use imperial pipes with metric fittings. This
might just about do the job for you. If this is the case then your
imperial pipe will be 3/4 inch so just ask for the 3/4 inch 22mm
converter olives at the merchant's. They should only be a few pence so
worth a try!

(The imperial sizes are internal diameter so don't be surprised that
measuring the outer diameter of your pipes doesn't give you the 19.08mm
you might expect!)

I wouldn't fancy my first soldered joint at the back of wardrobe either
to be honest. It depends on how much room you've got to work with.
However, I've done a few in close proximity to flammable materials by
surrounding the area in damp offcuts of plywood and damp rags. Solder
ring fittings would be easier than end feed in this case but hopefully
it won't come down to this!

Good luck
Luke

wrote:
Wingedcat wrote:

[snip]

I can't envisage a way of "bodging" what is essentially a knackered
pipe. So, is there any way that instead of cutting it back, you could
extend it forwards, by soldering on a new length of 22mm using a
straight coupler and then attaching a gate valve to that?

The idea of doing my first soldered joint in the back of a wardrobe
isn't filling me with joy!


Without seeing the exact layout with the wardrobe and so on, it's a bit
difficult to make suggestions!
_____
|o
|
|

That's looking from above, at the corner of a wardrobe with a pipe
running down it. It disappears into the roof.

(Good Lord - your pipes must be completely deformed if you can get PTFE
tape *under* the olive! No wonder you can't get a good seal!)

Reading around, I wonder if this is part of the problem. I probably
wrecked the pipes getting the old olives off (using adjustable spanner
and hammer - rather than hack saw and screw driver!), but the new
olives, though not _very_ lose, were quite lose - it took only a little
care to get them over a turn of PTFE tape around the pipes without
ripping the tape. Could it be imperial pipe? House was built in the
1950s, some of the pipes look younger than others.


You need one of these to cut the pipes. 15mm and 22mm versions are
available.
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...12468&ts=84657

Are the olives brass or copper? I've had trouble tightening brass
olives tight enough. Copper ones seem much easier to get right - they
seem to "give" a bit more as its a softer material.

It's quite possible that the pipes are imperial. 15mm and 1/2" are nigh
on identical though - 15mm compression fitting should be fine with
either. 22mm and 3/4" are quite different though - you'll need a
special olive - take a trip to your local plumbers merchant. I don't
think the sheds do them. From your description, this sounds quite
likely. As someone else said, you shouldn't be able to get much (any!)
PTFE tape UNDER the olive.

Alternatively, you could use a push-fit pipe repair if by cutting the
pipe again its too short:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...85067&id=14767

Again, 15mm and 1/2" are OK. If it's 3/4" go and talk to your local PM.

Good luck!

Jon.

wrote:
Wingedcat wrote:

[snip]

Reading around, I wonder if this is part of the problem. I probably
wrecked the pipes getting the old olives off (using adjustable spanner
and hammer - rather than hack saw and screw driver!),

Good grief !

Top tip, when you have very little pipe to play with, take care when
removing the old olives, and only a *very gentle* clean with wire wool,
to avoid removing too much metal.

As you say, careful application of hacksaw and screwdriver to break the
old olive apart would have been good in this case !

But, if the old olive looks to be in good order i'd be tempted to reuse
on the new fitting

but the new olives, though not _very_ lose, were quite lose - it took only a little
care to get them over a turn of PTFE tape around the pipes without
ripping the tape. Could it be imperial pipe? House was built in the
1950s, some of the pipes look younger than others.

Others have given the best tips already. Use a 3/4" olive, or a copper
one that is a little more forgiving.

P.

Tournifreak wrote:
You need one of these to cut the pipes. 15mm and 22mm versions are
available.
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...12468&ts=84657

It says "22mm version available" but it isn't linked.

Also, it requires you to add a ratchet handle to use the thing (I
downloaded the instructions) - I don't have room to rotate the handle
around the pipe.

I think this means cutting the pipe remains the biggest problem.


Are the olives brass or copper? I've had trouble tightening brass
olives tight enough. Copper ones seem much easier to get right - they
seem to "give" a bit more as its a softer material.

Yes, they were copper. I'll stock up on some brass ones.

It's quite possible that the pipes are imperial. 15mm and 1/2" are nigh
on identical though - 15mm compression fitting should be fine with
either. 22mm and 3/4" are quite different though - you'll need a
special olive - take a trip to your local plumbers merchant. I don't
think the sheds do them. From your description, this sounds quite
likely. As someone else said, you shouldn't be able to get much (any!)
PTFE tape UNDER the olive.

I think I'll buy a few of both.

Alternatively, you could use a push-fit pipe repair if by cutting the
pipe again its too short:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...85067&id=14767

That's great thanks - I didn't realise they were so cheap. I still have
to cut the pipe though!

Again, 15mm and 1/2" are OK. If it's 3/4" go and talk to your local PM.

I've googled and found one a few minutes away.


Thanks to you and everyone else for the advice.

My problem now is that, to do the job properly, I'm going to have to
cut the pipe in a tight corner.

Cheers,
David.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Tournifreak wrote:
You need one of these to cut the pipes. 15mm and 22mm versions are
available.
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...12468&ts=84657

It says "22mm version available" but it isn't linked.

Also, it requires you to add a ratchet handle to use the thing (I
downloaded the instructions) - I don't have room to rotate the handle
around the pipe.

I think this means cutting the pipe remains the biggest problem.


snipped


Thanks to you and everyone else for the advice.

My problem now is that, to do the job properly, I'm going to have to
cut the pipe in a tight corner.

Cheers,
David.

=============================
You can see the 22mm version of the pipe cutter by clicking on 'Plumbing
tools / Hand tools' lower down the page to which the above link applies.

This tool does not need a ratchet handle (although one may be available) -
it simply rotates around the pipe to be cut. It needs only about 16mm
clearance around the pipe and unless you have exceptionally weak fingers
it's quick and easy to use.

Since you're obviously struggling it might be worth tracing the pipe(s) into
the ceiling void if possible and try to install new sections of pipe with
their joints in a more accessible position.

Cic.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Tournifreak wrote:
You need one of these to cut the pipes. 15mm and 22mm versions are
available.
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...12468&ts=84657

It says "22mm version available" but it isn't linked.

Also, it requires you to add a ratchet handle to use the thing (I
downloaded the instructions) - I don't have room to rotate the handle
around the pipe.

I think this means cutting the pipe remains the biggest problem.


snipped


Thanks to you and everyone else for the advice.

My problem now is that, to do the job properly, I'm going to have to
cut the pipe in a tight corner.

Cheers,
David.

=============================
You can see the 22mm version of the pipe cutter by clicking on 'Plumbing
tools / Hand tools' lower down the page to which the above link applies.

This tool does not need a ratchet handle (although one may be available) -
it simply rotates around the pipe to be cut. It needs only about 16mm
clearance around the pipe and unless you have exceptionally weak fingers
it's quick and easy to use.

Since you're obviously struggling it might be worth tracing the pipe(s) into
the ceiling void if possible and try to install new sections of pipe with
their joints in a more accessible position.

Cic.




--
----------------------------------------
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 242 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now!

Wingedcat wrote:

I wouldn't fancy my first soldered joint at the back of wardrobe either
to be honest. It depends on how much room you've got to work with.
However, I've done a few in close proximity to flammable materials by
surrounding the area in damp offcuts of plywood and damp rags.


A cheap hot-air gun can ramp the temperature up enough that you can
solder with it!

Mungo

Borrow a Dremel and cut off the pipe square in the corner. I would never advise buying a Dremel but they have very limited use and this is one of those situations.Clean the pipe up with a small round file and wire wool. Then fit a straight connector and solder on new length of pipe(using a solder mat to protect the wardrobe) or use a compression connector.
Job done.
Oh, then bin the dremel or give it back.

freddyuk wrote:
Wingedcat Wrote:

Borrow a Dremel and cut off the pipe square in the corner. I would
never advise buying a Dremel but they have very limited use

LOL, that's not what the dremel site says.

It's quite versatile I find for some jobs. I have a Ryobi rechargeable
'rotary tool' but sometimes mains powered is always better for long or
frequent cutting.

Oh, then bin the dremel or give it back.

I use mine lots. Maybe I have above average need of grinding, drilling,
milling, sanding, cutting and polishing to do ..

P.

wrote:

My problem now is that, to do the job properly, I'm going to have to
cut the pipe in a tight corner.

Can you not cut it in the room below (or in the loft above) etc to save
titting about in the wardrobe?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Cicero wrote:

[snip]

Since you're obviously struggling it might be worth tracing the pipe(s) into
the ceiling void if possible and try to install new sections of pipe with
their joints in a more accessible position.

They're not very accessible either above or below!


Thank you to everyone for your advice. Realising that I'd done a bad
job to start with, and that there was nothing for it but to cut the
pipe and get suitable copper 3/4" compatible olives to make good, there
was no harm in trying to tighten the leaking joint even more.

Result: it's stopped leaking. Nothing in two days, despite pulling and
waggling the pipe.

I think I'll keep my fingers crossed for now. I'll do the job properly
next time though (kitchen next!), so thank you for all the information.

Cheers,
David.