I have some new flat-pack IKEA shelves and a few fasteners don't grip
well. So I'm going to use wood glue to strengthen the joints.

I have some of that thick white liquid glue for woodworking.

My glue is from a discount store or pound shop. Is cheap wood glue
generally ok?

I don't need the best and most expensive glue.

I just don't want to find in three months that my cheap glue is crumbling
away or comes away from the wood surface or anything like that!

Thanks for any info and experiences.

John wrote:
I have some new flat-pack IKEA shelves and a few fasteners don't grip
well. So I'm going to use wood glue to strengthen the joints.

I have some of that thick white liquid glue for woodworking.

My glue is from a discount store or pound shop. Is cheap wood glue
generally ok?

I don't need the best and most expensive glue.

I just don't want to find in three months that my cheap glue is crumbling
away or comes away from the wood surface or anything like that!

Thanks for any info and experiences.


In woodworking, in general, the wood (or other structural components)
needs to take the load, not the glue.

So, I would be looking to strengthen joints with things like dowels and
biscuits - and then use glue to keep the parts of that strengthened
joint from moving.

However, to address you question.

Yes, glue can be used as an engineering material, where the glue itself
bears the load. And, in that case, quality matters.

However, in woodworking, if the joint is a good one, cheap glue is fine.
A really good joint needs no glue at all. IME, YMMV.

--
Sue

Palindrome wrote:
John wrote:
I have some new flat-pack IKEA shelves and a few fasteners don't grip
well. So I'm going to use wood glue to strengthen the joints.

I have some of that thick white liquid glue for woodworking.

My glue is from a discount store or pound shop. Is cheap wood glue
generally ok?
I don't need the best and most expensive glue.

I just don't want to find in three months that my cheap glue is
crumbling away or comes away from the wood surface or anything like that!

Thanks for any info and experiences.


In woodworking, in general, the wood (or other structural components)
needs to take the load, not the glue.

So, I would be looking to strengthen joints with things like dowels and
biscuits - and then use glue to keep the parts of that strengthened
joint from moving.

However, to address you question.

Yes, glue can be used as an engineering material, where the glue itself
bears the load. And, in that case, quality matters.

However, in woodworking, if the joint is a good one, cheap glue is fine.
A really good joint needs no glue at all. IME, YMMV.


The art of carpentry with gkue is twofold

1/. To make sure the glue never takes tesile loads, but shrear lodas.
I.e a glued mi=ruce and tenon kint is good, a butt koint is bad..

2/. To ensure that the above holds true even under variable humitidty.
I.e a tenon joint with the mortice ALONG the grain may fail becuse the
tenon shrinks more across the grain then the mortices does along the grain.

Which is a reaon to use dowels..


And chipboard. Which is pretty uniform and low in its expansion rates.


With flat pack composite material stuff,the glue really just stops it
falling apart ..the real strength is in the pegs and the holes.

Cheape glue may have less additives..so it may go mouldy in teh pot,
etc, but its very little different from more exepsnive glues, and good
enough.



--
Sue

On Thu 13 Mar 2008 11:24:21, Palindrome wrote:

John wrote:
I have some new flat-pack IKEA shelves and a few fasteners don't
grip well. So I'm going to use wood glue to strengthen the joints.

I have some of that thick white liquid glue for woodworking.
My glue is from a discount store or pound shop. Is cheap wood glue
generally ok? I don't need the best and most expensive glue.

I just don't want to find in three months that my cheap glue is
crumbling away or comes away from the wood surface or anything like
that!

Thanks for any info and experiences.


In woodworking, in general, the wood (or other structural components)
needs to take the load, not the glue.
So, I would be looking to strengthen joints with things like dowels
and biscuits - and then use glue to keep the parts of that
strengthened joint from moving.

However, to address you question.
Yes, glue can be used as an engineering material, where the glue
itself bears the load. And, in that case, quality matters.
However, in woodworking, if the joint is a good one, cheap glue is
fine. A really good joint needs no glue at all. IME, YMMV.

-- Sue

Thanks for the reply. The IKEA units have dowells and fasteners and
all those things you mention. No glue would normally be needed but one
or two fasteners do not grip properly.

So my glue would be used as you suggest: with dowels etc.

The problem I was asking about was if cheap PVA wood glue was generally
ok or if these cheap wood glues were like one or two other products
from the discount stores (although not all products) in that it might
be so crap that it's best not to use it.

You seems to say cheap PVA wood glue is fine.

John wrote:
Snip
Thanks for the reply. The IKEA units have dowells and fasteners and
all those things you mention. No glue would normally be needed but one
or two fasteners do not grip properly.

So my glue would be used as you suggest: with dowels etc.

The problem I was asking about was if cheap PVA wood glue was generally
ok or if these cheap wood glues were like one or two other products
from the discount stores (although not all products) in that it might
be so crap that it's best not to use it.

You seems to say cheap PVA wood glue is fine.

I find nice "runny" glue is best with dowels (and biscuits). It needs to
be thin enough to displace up the dowel grooves as the joint is put
together. The water present in the glue will be absorbed into the
surrounding material, causing it to expand slightly. That expanded state
is then held in place by the dry PVA - producing a nice, tight, joint.
So, counter-intuitively, thicker glue can actually produce a worse
joint. YMMV.

But, yep, I have had no problem using cheap PVA wood glue with dowels.

--
Sue

Huge wrote:
On 2008-03-13, Palindrome wrote:
John wrote:
Snip
Thanks for the reply. The IKEA units have dowells and fasteners and
all those things you mention. No glue would normally be needed but one
or two fasteners do not grip properly.

So my glue would be used as you suggest: with dowels etc.

The problem I was asking about was if cheap PVA wood glue was generally
ok

But, yep, I have had no problem using cheap PVA wood glue with dowels.

So, you smear PVA over the dowel, position it over the hole and give it a smart
tap with a mallet ...

... and it sprays PVA all over you, the IKEA stuff and the carpet. (



Nope, never done that (yet).

Not much chance as,
(1) I don't buy kit furniture and
(2) I do woodworking in my workshop, not drawing room and
(3) it doesn't sound to be a very *smart* tap, if that is the result.

However, the point is well-made. Unlike most kit furniture.....

--
Sue

Palindrome wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2008-03-13, Palindrome wrote:
John wrote:
Snip
Thanks for the reply. The IKEA units have dowells and fasteners and
all those things you mention. No glue would normally be needed but
one or two fasteners do not grip properly.

So my glue would be used as you suggest: with dowels etc.

The problem I was asking about was if cheap PVA wood glue was
generally ok

But, yep, I have had no problem using cheap PVA wood glue with dowels.

So, you smear PVA over the dowel, position it over the hole and give
it a smart
tap with a mallet ...

... and it sprays PVA all over you, the IKEA stuff and the carpet. (



Nope, never done that (yet).

Not much chance as,
(1) I don't buy kit furniture and
(2) I do woodworking in my workshop, not drawing room and
(3) it doesn't sound to be a very *smart* tap, if that is the result.

However, the point is well-made. Unlike most kit furniture.....


IME Pound Shop glue is fine but it's runnier than the proper stuff,
which can get on your nerves if you're trying to position it accurately

On Mar 13, 11:45*am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Palindrome wrote:
John wrote:
I have some new flat-pack IKEA shelves and a few fasteners don't grip
well. *So I'm going to use wood glue to strengthen the joints.

I have some of that thick white liquid glue for woodworking.

My glue is from a discount store or pound shop. *Is cheap wood glue
generally ok?
I don't need the best and most expensive glue.

I just don't want to find in three months that my cheap glue is
crumbling away or comes away from the wood surface or anything like that!

Thanks for any info and experiences.

In woodworking, in general, the wood (or other structural components)
needs to take the load, not the glue.

So, I would be looking to strengthen joints with things like dowels and
biscuits - and then use glue to keep the parts of that strengthened
joint from moving.

However, to address you question.

Yes, glue can be used as an engineering material, where the glue itself
bears the load. And, in that case, quality matters.

However, in woodworking, if the joint is a good one, cheap glue is fine.
*A really good joint needs no glue at all. *IME, YMMV.

The art of carpentry with gkue is twofold

1/. To make sure the glue never takes tesile loads, but shrear lodas.
I.e a glued mi=ruce and tenon kint is good, a butt koint is bad..

Been on the "fruit juice" again?

On 2008-03-13 13:49:42 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:



IME Pound Shop glue is fine but it's runnier than the proper stuff,
which can get on your nerves if you're trying to position it accurately

So it's not fine then....

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:50:19 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 2008-03-13 13:49:42 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:



IME Pound Shop glue is fine but it's runnier than the proper stuff,
which can get on your nerves if you're trying to position it accurately

So it's not fine then....

It *is* fine, the dowels do the positioning, the glue does (some of) the
sticking.

On 2008-03-13 19:52:17 +0000, PCPaul said:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:50:19 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 2008-03-13 13:49:42 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:



IME Pound Shop glue is fine but it's runnier than the proper stuff,
which can get on your nerves if you're trying to position it accurately

So it's not fine then....

It *is* fine, the dowels do the positioning, the glue does (some of) the
sticking.

Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes me.

In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:57:40 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 2008-03-13 19:52:17 +0000, PCPaul said:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:50:19 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 2008-03-13 13:49:42 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:



IME Pound Shop glue is fine but it's runnier than the proper stuff,
which can get on your nerves if you're trying to position it
accurately

So it's not fine then....

It *is* fine, the dowels do the positioning, the glue does (some of)
the sticking.

Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes
me.

In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.


At least we agree on something ;-)

To the OP:

Glue it and screw it. If the fixings issue is because you stripped the
holes by tightening up the screws too much, then (a) calm down next time,
it's only wood and (b) fill the holes with a filler made of sawdust and
PVA, wait for it to dry then screw them in again. Or if you have enough
good solid fixings, just dab some PVA in the holes, screw it together and
leave it. The PVA will act as a good-enough threadlock once it goes off.

Owain wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes me.
In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.

At least as far as materials go, if the wood is coming out of a skip and
costs nowt, then the glue is quite a large part of the materials cost.


But you can use cheap, good glue. I buy anti-creep, cross linking PVA
(at least I think that is the wording) by the litre for not a lot from
Andy Hall's favourite High Wycombe shop. Well, not a lot compared with
Evostik, Titebond, etc. Never had the slightest problem with it.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Rod wrote:
Owain wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes
me.
In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.

At least as far as materials go, if the wood is coming out of a skip
and costs nowt, then the glue is quite a large part of the materials
cost.


But you can use cheap, good glue. I buy anti-creep, cross linking PVA
(at least I think that is the wording) by the litre for not a lot from
Andy Hall's favourite High Wycombe shop. Well, not a lot compared with
Evostik, Titebond, etc. Never had the slightest problem with it.


Horses for courses. No need to use Cascamite for everything. I wouldn't
use anything else in the kitchen, bathrooms, utility room or outside.
But pound-shop PVA is fine for bedroom furniture. Even the four poster..

--
Sue

On Thu 13 Mar 2008 21:08:36, Owain wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:


Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue
amazes me. In terms of the investment in time and materials on a
project, the difference in cost here is second order negligible.

At least as far as materials go, if the wood is coming out of a skip
and costs nowt, then the glue is quite a large part of the materials
cost.

Owain


The glue may not be expensive but I have the cheap stuff sitting right in
front of me.

It seems a waste (and a cost) to use My car for the not-so-short journey
to get some. So alternative wood glue would need ordering.

So the question I asked was if the cheap stuff is good enough. Seems
reasonable to me.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-13 13:49:42 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:



IME Pound Shop glue is fine but it's runnier than the proper stuff,
which can get on your nerves if you're trying to position it accurately

So it's not fine then....




Ideal for some jobs where the pukka stuff wouldn't be ideal

On Mar 13, 7:57*pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-13 19:52:17 +0000, PCPaul said:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:50:19 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 2008-03-13 13:49:42 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:

IME Pound Shop glue is fine but it's runnier than the proper stuff,
which can get on your nerves if you're trying to position it accurately

So it's not fine then....

It *is* fine, the dowels do the positioning, the glue does (some of) the
sticking.

Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes me.

In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.

cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know. How much
opportunity cost did you waste reading this thread and posting
replies?

MBQ

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Mar 13, 7:57 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-13 19:52:17 +0000, PCPaul said:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:50:19 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-13 13:49:42 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:
IME Pound Shop glue is fine but it's runnier than the proper stuff,
which can get on your nerves if you're trying to position it accurately
So it's not fine then....
It *is* fine, the dowels do the positioning, the glue does (some of) the
sticking.
Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes me.

In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.

cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know. How much
opportunity cost did you waste reading this thread and posting
replies?

MBQ

Pound Shop glue is 500 ml and comes with a very fine spout. Can't put a
price on that

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Mar 13, 7:57 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-13 19:52:17 +0000, PCPaul said:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:50:19 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-13 13:49:42 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:
IME Pound Shop glue is fine but it's runnier than the proper stuff,
which can get on your nerves if you're trying to position it accurately
So it's not fine then....
It *is* fine, the dowels do the positioning, the glue does (some of) the
sticking.
Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes me.

In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.

cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know. How much
opportunity cost did you waste reading this thread and posting
replies?

MBQ


OTOH if its half the amount of glue and the rest is water, 75% of the
price is definitely not worth having ;-)

I found that wth 'tescos dishwashing liquid' - its ability to emulsify
grease was like 1/2 of the branded stuff, but it wasn';t half the price.

OTOH theres some indutsrail stuff - Teepol? -that is dirt cheap, looks
like water, but is in fact JUST detergent.

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:57:40 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes me.

I can't afford cheap glue, it costs too much. Thinned down, tiny bottles
- if you're using an appreciable quantity, then "pound a bottle" isn't a
very good deal.

Mostly I use Titebond II If I use plain PVA (laminating, biscuits and
dowels) it's cheap builder's PVA, bought by the gallon and thinned down
as necessary.

On 2008-03-14 16:14:33 +0000, "Man at B&Q" said:

On Mar 13, 7:57*pm, Andy Hall wrote:

Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes me.

In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.

cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know.

There is normally a good correlation. If the cost of finding out
exceeds the cost difference of purchase, then there is no point in
buying the cheap product.



How much
opportunity cost did you waste reading this thread and posting
replies?


Very little. Look on it as a public service

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-14 16:14:33 +0000, "Man at B&Q" said:

On Mar 13, 7:57 pm, Andy Hall wrote:

Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes
me.

In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.

cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know.

There is normally a good correlation. If the cost of finding out
exceeds the cost difference of purchase, then there is no point in
buying the cheap product.

It's clear that plenty of everyday things are dirt cheap to make, and
it's your choice whether you pay a quid or a tenner.
Once one has paid a tenner, one will attempt to justify the extra
expense by any means possible.



How much
opportunity cost did you waste reading this thread and posting
replies?


Very little. Look on it as a public service

On 2008-03-16 11:33:35 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-14 16:14:33 +0000, "Man at B&Q" said:

On Mar 13, 7:57 pm, Andy Hall wrote:

Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes me.

In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.

cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know.

There is normally a good correlation. If the cost of finding out
exceeds the cost difference of purchase, then there is no point in
buying the cheap product.

It's clear that plenty of everyday things are dirt cheap to make, and
it's your choice whether you pay a quid or a tenner.
Once one has paid a tenner, one will attempt to justify the extra
expense by any means possible.

The issue is one of knowing that a good quality product works and not
wasting time on one that might not.

What would be the recourse when buying the quid glue in the pound shop?
Nothing.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-16 11:33:35 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-14 16:14:33 +0000, "Man at B&Q"
said:

On Mar 13, 7:57 pm, Andy Hall wrote:

Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue
amazes me.

In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.

cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know.

There is normally a good correlation. If the cost of finding out
exceeds the cost difference of purchase, then there is no point in
buying the cheap product.

It's clear that plenty of everyday things are dirt cheap to make, and
it's your choice whether you pay a quid or a tenner.
Once one has paid a tenner, one will attempt to justify the extra
expense by any means possible.

The issue is one of knowing that a good quality product works and not
wasting time on one that might not.

What would be the recourse when buying the quid glue in the pound shop?
Nothing.



There are many everyday products where, because of the scale of
production, it wouldn't benefit the manufacturers to make an inferior
product. Cheaper to just leave the machine running and produce more of
the standard item.
Re the glue, it's a 500ml container with a long narrow spout, which I
find particularly useful. I might even have paid a quid for the empty
container.
The Pound Shop is invaluable for things like SCART leads where you only
want one, and you either pay through the nose in Dixons or pay the
delivery charge for online purchase. They are filling a gap in the
retail scene, whether you like it or not.

On 2008-03-16 16:16:53 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:

There are many everyday products where, because of the scale of
production, it wouldn't benefit the manufacturers to make an inferior
product. Cheaper to just leave the machine running and produce more of
the standard item.
Re the glue, it's a 500ml container with a long narrow spout, which I
find particularly useful. I might even have paid a quid for the empty
container.
The Pound Shop is invaluable for things like SCART leads where you only
want one, and you either pay through the nose in Dixons or pay the
delivery charge for online purchase. They are filling a gap in the
retail scene, whether you like it or not.

That's fine. I wouldn't consider using them anyway

On Mar 15, 8:16*pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-14 16:14:33 +0000, "Man at B&Q" said:

On Mar 13, 7:57*pm, Andy Hall wrote:

Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes me.

In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.

cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know.

There is normally a good correlation.

Between brand and price, maybe even "perceived quality" and price, but
not absolute quality.

MBQ

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Mar 15, 8:16 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-14 16:14:33 +0000, "Man at B&Q" said:

On Mar 13, 7:57 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes me.
In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.
cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know.
There is normally a good correlation.

Between brand and price, maybe even "perceived quality" and price, but
not absolute quality.

MBQ

Interesting that I was able to buy 2 pairs of Spear & Jackson pruners
for a fiver in the high street today. How the mighty have fallen. The
box says "purners" so I guess maintaining a brand name doesn't mean you
have to be able to spell.

On 2008-03-17 13:48:40 +0000, "Man at B&Q" said:

On Mar 15, 8:16*pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-14 16:14:33 +0000, "Man at B&Q" said:

On Mar 13, 7:57*pm, Andy Hall wrote:

Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes m
e.

In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.

cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know.

There is normally a good correlation.

Between brand and price, maybe even "perceived quality" and price, but
not absolute quality.

MBQ

The question then becomes how to identify quality

On 2008-03-17 16:39:31 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Mar 15, 8:16 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-14 16:14:33 +0000, "Man at B&Q" said:

On Mar 13, 7:57 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes me.
In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.
cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know.
There is normally a good correlation.

Between brand and price, maybe even "perceived quality" and price, but
not absolute quality.

MBQ

Interesting that I was able to buy 2 pairs of Spear & Jackson pruners
for a fiver in the high street today. How the mighty have fallen. The
box says "purners" so I guess maintaining a brand name doesn't mean you
have to be able to spell.

Counterfeit ?

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-17 16:39:31 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Mar 15, 8:16 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-14 16:14:33 +0000, "Man at B&Q"
said:

On Mar 13, 7:57 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue
amazes me.
In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.
cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know.
There is normally a good correlation.

Between brand and price, maybe even "perceived quality" and price, but
not absolute quality.

MBQ

Interesting that I was able to buy 2 pairs of Spear & Jackson pruners
for a fiver in the high street today. How the mighty have fallen. The
box says "purners" so I guess maintaining a brand name doesn't mean
you have to be able to spell.

Counterfeit ?



I doubt it. Woolworths wouldn't risk it.
Quite a few well respected brands dotted about. I imagine beggars can't
be choosers when it comes to retail exposure. I've certainly never
understood the Woolworth/Ladybird arrangement in the children's clothing
sector. AFAIK posh mums are still happy to have their sprogs decked
out in it, and yet it's always been exclusive to Woollies.

On 2008-03-17 17:47:00 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-17 16:39:31 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Mar 15, 8:16 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-14 16:14:33 +0000, "Man at B&Q" said:

On Mar 13, 7:57 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes me.
In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.
cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know.
There is normally a good correlation.

Between brand and price, maybe even "perceived quality" and price, but
not absolute quality.

MBQ

Interesting that I was able to buy 2 pairs of Spear & Jackson pruners
for a fiver in the high street today. How the mighty have fallen. The
box says "purners" so I guess maintaining a brand name doesn't mean you
have to be able to spell.

Counterfeit ?



I doubt it. Woolworths wouldn't risk it.

Spelling mistake on packaging is a dead giveaway.

Quite a few well respected brands dotted about. I imagine beggars can't
be choosers when it comes to retail exposure. I've certainly never
understood the Woolworth/Ladybird arrangement in the children's
clothing sector. AFAIK posh mums are still happy to have their sprogs
decked out in it, and yet it's always been exclusive to Woollies.

Curious indeed.

Stuart Noble wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-17 16:39:31 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Mar 15, 8:16 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-14 16:14:33 +0000, "Man at B&Q"
said:

On Mar 13, 7:57 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue
amazes me.
In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.
cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know.
There is normally a good correlation.

Between brand and price, maybe even "perceived quality" and price, but
not absolute quality.

MBQ

Interesting that I was able to buy 2 pairs of Spear & Jackson pruners
for a fiver in the high street today. How the mighty have fallen. The
box says "purners" so I guess maintaining a brand name doesn't mean
you have to be able to spell.

Counterfeit ?



I doubt it. Woolworths wouldn't risk it.
Quite a few well respected brands dotted about. I imagine beggars can't
be choosers when it comes to retail exposure. I've certainly never
understood the Woolworth/Ladybird arrangement in the children's clothing
sector. AFAIK posh mums are still happy to have their sprogs decked out
in it, and yet it's always been exclusive to Woollies.

"Ladybird" used to have a reputation for very high quality but expensive
products. Today's grandparents no doubt remember it as such. Today's
parents were quite possibly dressed in it and, although not necessarily
associating the name with "quality" - they associate it with childhood
memories of what their parents thought were best for them.

Tomorrow's children will also have (hopefully, happy) memories of
wearing Ladybird and will possibly still want to buy it for their
children. After all, their parents bought it for them.

So, self-perpetuating. Even though, IIUC, the company went bust and the
brand name was bought by Woollies.

Many other brands have followed a similar path - especially in hifi and
white goods..


--
Sue

Palindrome wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-17 16:39:31 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Mar 15, 8:16 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-14 16:14:33 +0000, "Man at B&Q"
said:

On Mar 13, 7:57 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue
amazes me.
In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.
cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know.
There is normally a good correlation.

Between brand and price, maybe even "perceived quality" and price, but
not absolute quality.

MBQ

Interesting that I was able to buy 2 pairs of Spear & Jackson
pruners for a fiver in the high street today. How the mighty have
fallen. The box says "purners" so I guess maintaining a brand name
doesn't mean you have to be able to spell.

Counterfeit ?



I doubt it. Woolworths wouldn't risk it.
Quite a few well respected brands dotted about. I imagine beggars
can't be choosers when it comes to retail exposure. I've certainly
never understood the Woolworth/Ladybird arrangement in the children's
clothing sector. AFAIK posh mums are still happy to have their sprogs
decked out in it, and yet it's always been exclusive to Woollies.

"Ladybird" used to have a reputation for very high quality but expensive
products. Today's grandparents no doubt remember it as such. Today's
parents were quite possibly dressed in it and, although not necessarily
associating the name with "quality" - they associate it with childhood
memories of what their parents thought were best for them.

Tomorrow's children will also have (hopefully, happy) memories of
wearing Ladybird and will possibly still want to buy it for their
children. After all, their parents bought it for them.

So, self-perpetuating. Even though, IIUC, the company went bust and the
brand name was bought by Woollies.

Many other brands have followed a similar path - especially in hifi and
white goods..


--
Sue


That's interesting. Ladybird still looks quietly confident on the shop
floor. Still hanging on the rack with no attempt at display or promotion
like it has been for the last 50 years.

On 2008-03-17 19:33:54 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:

That's interesting. Ladybird still looks quietly confident on the shop
floor. Still hanging on the rack with no attempt at display or
promotion like it has been for the last 50 years.

Undoubtedly made in PRC, but such is brand value.

It really does demonstrate that a long period of time establshes
position and reputation.

The same can be said of Evostik and Titebond.

On Mar 17, 5:08*pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-17 13:48:40 +0000, "Man at B&Q" said:





On Mar 15, 8:16*pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-14 16:14:33 +0000, "Man at B&Q" said:

On Mar 13, 7:57*pm, Andy Hall wrote:

Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes m
e.

In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.

cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know.

There is normally a good correlation.

Between brand and price, maybe even "perceived quality" and price, but
not absolute quality.

MBQ

The question then becomes how to identify quality

Not by price, that's for sure.

MBQ

On Mar 17, 5:47*pm, Stuart Noble
wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-17 16:39:31 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Mar 15, 8:16 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-14 16:14:33 +0000, "Man at B&Q"
said:

On Mar 13, 7:57 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue
amazes me.
In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.
cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know.
There is normally a good correlation.

Between brand and price, maybe even "perceived quality" and price, but
not absolute quality.

MBQ

Interesting that I was able to buy 2 pairs of Spear & Jackson pruners
for a fiver in the high street today. How the mighty have fallen. The
box says "purners" so I guess maintaining a brand name doesn't mean
you have to be able to spell.

Counterfeit ?

I doubt it. Woolworths wouldn't risk it.
Quite a few well respected brands dotted about. I imagine beggars can't
be choosers when it comes to retail exposure. I've certainly never
understood the Woolworth/Ladybird arrangement in the children's clothing
* sector. AFAIK posh mums are still happy to have their sprogs decked
out in it, and yet it's always been exclusive to Woollies.

That's because people with real money know the real value of it and
realise there's no point paying a lot of money for something the sprog
will grow out of in no time. The wannabees will follow the herd and
buy "quality" brands at inflated prices.

The best places for childrens clothes are charity shops in a
reasonably affluent area. Any brand you want at a realistic price.

MBQ

On 2008-03-18 13:10:53 +0000, "Man at B&Q" said:

On Mar 17, 5:08*pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-17 13:48:40 +0000, "Man at B&Q" said:





On Mar 15, 8:16*pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-14 16:14:33 +0000, "Man at B&Q" sai
d:

On Mar 13, 7:57*pm, Andy Hall wrote:

Why on earth there is a discussion about proper vs. cheap glue amazes
m
e.

In terms of the investment in time and materials on a project, the
difference in cost here is second order negligible.

cheap != improper neccessarily, as i suspect you well know.

There is normally a good correlation.

Between brand and price, maybe even "perceived quality" and price, but
not absolute quality.

MBQ

The question then becomes how to identify quality

Not by price, that's for sure.


What is your proposal?

In article 47deb2e5@qaanaaq, Andy Hall wrote:

On 2008-03-17 17:47:00 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:

Interesting that I was able to buy 2 pairs of Spear & Jackson pruners
for a fiver in the high street today. How the mighty have fallen. The
box says "purners" so I guess maintaining a brand name doesn't mean you
have to be able to spell.

Counterfeit ?

I doubt it. Woolworths wouldn't risk it.

Spelling mistake on packaging is a dead giveaway.


I quite agree. Spelling mistakes are a dead giveaway of forgeries.

Look at these examples from the Lamello website...

(from this page:
http://www.lamello.com/en/products/w...ng-system.html)

"The Lamello system quality garantuees that every system component fits
to the other."

(from this page:
http://www.lamello.com/en/products/w...uit-joiners/to
p-20-s3.html)

"Central locking system for the easy cutter changment.
Simple preparation of joints with projecting or rejecting areas."

(from this page:
http://www.lamello.com/en/products/s...ipurpose-cutte
r-for-stone.html)

"Front plates for the straight cut and 45° cut into the angles
exchangeable with quick-release fastene"



What kind of gullible sap would pay through the nose for this obviously
counterfeit monkey-metal junk?

mike wrote:
In article 47deb2e5@qaanaaq, Andy Hall wrote:

On 2008-03-17 17:47:00 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:

Interesting that I was able to buy 2 pairs of Spear & Jackson pruners
for a fiver in the high street today. How the mighty have fallen. The
box says "purners" so I guess maintaining a brand name doesn't mean you
have to be able to spell.
Counterfeit ?

I doubt it. Woolworths wouldn't risk it.
Spelling mistake on packaging is a dead giveaway.


I quite agree. Spelling mistakes are a dead giveaway of forgeries.

Look at these examples from the Lamello website...

(from this page:
http://www.lamello.com/en/products/w...ng-system.html)

"The Lamello system quality garantuees that every system component fits
to the other."

(from this page:
http://www.lamello.com/en/products/w...uit-joiners/to
p-20-s3.html)

"Central locking system for the easy cutter changment.
Simple preparation of joints with projecting or rejecting areas."

(from this page:
http://www.lamello.com/en/products/s...ipurpose-cutte
r-for-stone.html)

"Front plates for the straight cut and 45° cut into the angles
exchangeable with quick-release fastene"



What kind of gullible sap would pay through the nose for this obviously
counterfeit monkey-metal junk?

Ah but Swiss mis-spelling is immeasurably superior to Chinese. It isn't
in any way indicative of contempt for their customers, nor is it the tip
of an iceberg. Their cuckoo clocks work very well apparently.

On 2008-03-18 18:01:55 +0000, mike said:

In article 47deb2e5@qaanaaq, Andy Hall wrote:

On 2008-03-17 17:47:00 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:

Interesting that I was able to buy 2 pairs of Spear & Jackson pruners
for a fiver in the high street today. How the mighty have fallen. The
box says "purners" so I guess maintaining a brand name doesn't mean you
have to be able to spell.

Counterfeit ?

I doubt it. Woolworths wouldn't risk it.

Spelling mistake on packaging is a dead giveaway.


I quite agree. Spelling mistakes are a dead giveaway of forgeries.

Look at these examples from the Lamello website...

(from this page:
http://www.lamello.com/en/products/w...ng-system.html)

"The Lamello system quality garantuees that every system component fits
to the other."

(from this page:
http://www.lamello.com/en/products/w...uit-joiners/to
p-20-s3.html)

"Central locking system for the easy cutter changment.
Simple preparation of joints with projecting or rejecting areas."

(from this page:
http://www.lamello.com/en/products/s...ipurpose-cutte
r-for-stone.html)

"Front plates for the straight cut and 45° cut into the angles
exchangeable with quick-release fastene"



What kind of gullible sap would pay through the nose for this obviously
counterfeit monkey-metal junk?

They're Swiss...

You need to understand what that means....