I stopped subscribing to it a long time ago; now the only
woodworking magazine I receive is WoodenBoat. But, when I see a copy of
FWW on the rack I usually thumb thru it, and rarely buy one.

The Aug 07 issue is one I bought. They have a number of articles
I'm interested in this time, and a very interesting article about
testing glues.

There were three woods involved: white Oak, hard maple, ipe (ipe
used instead of teak, because the lumberyard owner hears many complaints
about glue failure with it). Three fits were fits, tight, snug, loose.
The joint used was a bridle joint (open morise-and-tenon) because it has
no mechanical strength, relies only on the glue.

The glues in order of averate strangth, strongest to weakest: Type
I PVA glue (Titebond III tested), slow-set epoxy (system Three), Pva
glue (Elmer's yellow carpenter glue), liquid hide glue (Old Brown Glue),
traditional hide glue (J. E. Moser's), polyurethane glue (Gorilla Glue).

Some of the results were pretty surprising, and goes way against
what a lot of people accept as fact. Definitely interesting. If you
don't subscribe, I'd suggest at least thumbing thru this issue, at
least. Hopefully, they'll put the article on their website later on.

As for me, I'll be sticking with my all time favorite, titebond II.
For now at any rate.

I'd tried a pllyurehane glue, once. Wasn't thrilled with it at
all. Even so, still surprised at ow gorilla Glue came in on the
testing. Only came out looking reasonably well on couple of the tests.



JOAT
I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
them.
- Picasso

"J T" wrote in message
...
I stopped subscribing to it a long time ago; now the only
woodworking magazine I receive is WoodenBoat. But, when I see a copy of
FWW on the rack I usually thumb thru it, and rarely buy one.

The Aug 07 issue is one I bought. They have a number of articles
I'm interested in this time, and a very interesting article about
testing glues.

There were three woods involved: white Oak, hard maple, ipe (ipe
used instead of teak, because the lumberyard owner hears many complaints
about glue failure with it). Three fits were fits, tight, snug, loose.
The joint used was a bridle joint (open morise-and-tenon) because it has
no mechanical strength, relies only on the glue.

The glues in order of averate strangth, strongest to weakest: Type
I PVA glue (Titebond III tested), slow-set epoxy (system Three), Pva
glue (Elmer's yellow carpenter glue), liquid hide glue (Old Brown Glue),
traditional hide glue (J. E. Moser's), polyurethane glue (Gorilla Glue).

Some of the results were pretty surprising, and goes way against
what a lot of people accept as fact. Definitely interesting. If you
don't subscribe, I'd suggest at least thumbing thru this issue, at
least. Hopefully, they'll put the article on their website later on.

As for me, I'll be sticking with my all time favorite, titebond II.
For now at any rate.

I'd tried a pllyurehane glue, once. Wasn't thrilled with it at
all. Even so, still surprised at ow gorilla Glue came in on the
testing. Only came out looking reasonably well on couple of the tests.



JOAT
I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
them.
- Picasso


Elmer's for me. Glad to know it's #3 on the list.

J T wrote:

The Aug 07 issue is one I bought. They have a number of articles
I'm interested in this time, and a very interesting article about
testing glues.

There was some previous discussion about this article in this group:

http://groups.google.ca/group/rec.wo...891c23360d41bd



Chris

"J T" wrote in message
...
I stopped subscribing to it a long time ago; now the only
woodworking magazine I receive is WoodenBoat. But, when I see a copy of
FWW on the rack I usually thumb thru it, and rarely buy one.

The Aug 07 issue is one I bought. They have a number of articles
I'm interested in this time, and a very interesting article about
testing glues.

There were three woods involved: white Oak, hard maple, ipe (ipe
used instead of teak, because the lumberyard owner hears many complaints
about glue failure with it). Three fits were fits, tight, snug, loose.
The joint used was a bridle joint (open morise-and-tenon) because it has
no mechanical strength, relies only on the glue.

The glues in order of averate strangth, strongest to weakest: Type
I PVA glue (Titebond III tested), slow-set epoxy (system Three), Pva
glue (Elmer's yellow carpenter glue), liquid hide glue (Old Brown Glue),
traditional hide glue (J. E. Moser's), polyurethane glue (Gorilla Glue).

Some of the results were pretty surprising, and goes way against
what a lot of people accept as fact. Definitely interesting. If you
don't subscribe, I'd suggest at least thumbing thru this issue, at
least. Hopefully, they'll put the article on their website later on.

As for me, I'll be sticking with my all time favorite, titebond II.
For now at any rate.

I'd tried a pllyurehane glue, once. Wasn't thrilled with it at
all. Even so, still surprised at ow gorilla Glue came in on the
testing. Only came out looking reasonably well on couple of the tests.



JOAT
I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
them.
- Picasso


For me, Titebond II as well. One gallon lasted me about 3 years, still good
to the last drop though a little thick.

Check this out on the joint torture test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhLfb7m9Fug

"J T" wrote in message
...
I stopped subscribing to it a long time ago; now the only
woodworking magazine I receive is WoodenBoat. But, when I see a copy of
FWW on the rack I usually thumb thru it, and rarely buy one.

The Aug 07 issue is one I bought. They have a number of articles
I'm interested in this time, and a very interesting article about
testing glues.

There were three woods involved: white Oak, hard maple, ipe (ipe
used instead of teak, because the lumberyard owner hears many complaints
about glue failure with it). remainder snipped

If you can stifle your groans at the mention of His name, but is that why the Normster uses acetone on
teak just before gluing it up?

Wed, Aug 1, 2007, 12:23pm (EDT-3) (***Frank***) doth
sayeth:
For me, Titebond II as well. One gallon lasted me about 3 years, still
good to the last drop though a little thick. snip

Just add a little water, and shake. Works for me; in fact I may
have gotten that from the Franklin folks.



JOAT
I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
them.
- Picasso

Wed, Aug 1, 2007, 10:33am (EDT-2) (Chris*Friesen)
doth sayeth:
There was some previous discussion about this article in this group:
snip

Oh my goodness gracious, if I'd known that I never would have
posted. I know that people try to never post on the same subject twice
here.



JOAT
I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
them.
- Picasso

I have used a lot of gorilla glue myself. mainly because of all of the
oily woods I use. I have not used epoxy because of the hassle and that
it needs to be applied to both sides. but I tested glues and gorilla
glued ipe and other oily woods far better then yellow glue did.
surface prep made a big difference.
from the arguments on these tests no clamps were used so that really
can screw up the results.

Thu, Aug 2, 2007, 9:47am (EDT-3)
(Steve*knight) doth sayeth:
I have used a lot of gorilla glue myself. mainly because of all of the
oily woods I use. I have not used epoxy because of the hassle and that
it needs to be applied to both sides. but I tested glues and gorilla
glued ipe and other oily woods far better then yellow glue did.
**surface prep made a big difference.
**from the arguments on these tests no clamps were used so that
really can screw up the results.

Nope, no clamps. I dunno Steve, I think you might want to look
over the article. I didn't see the article itself on-line, didn't
bother looking either, but the magazine article says there's videos on
the testing on-line.

Surfaces prepped according to manufacture suggestions.



JOAT
I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
them.
- Picasso

Nope, no clamps. I dunno Steve, I think you might want to look
over the article. I didn't see the article itself on-line, didn't
bother looking either, but the magazine article says there's videos on
the testing on-line.

Surfaces prepped according to manufacture suggestions.

I just tried ipe with the recommended yellow glue it still does worse
then gorilla glue. but gorilla did not do perfectly either. I have had
joints break using it too.
but it is not as critical as I build my planes a different way now.

Steve knight wrote:

Nope, no clamps. I dunno Steve, I think you might want to look
over the article. I didn't see the article itself on-line, didn't
bother looking either, but the magazine article says there's videos on
the testing on-line.

Surfaces prepped according to manufacture suggestions.

I just tried ipe with the recommended yellow glue it still does worse
then gorilla glue. but gorilla did not do perfectly either. I have had
joints break using it too.
but it is not as critical as I build my planes a different way now.

I've used very little ipe so no real experience to pass on. I'd think
would be a place for the rsorcinol two-piece glues, maybe?

I've never been very satisfied w/ the urethanes for anything, frankly.

I did notice there are several letters to the editors on the article in
the last FWW taking them to task for several things -- the basic answer
was on the lines of my main complaint -- "Well, it would have been too
much work to do whatever..." The problem of a magazine trying to
undertake what really should be a longterm research project and make it
fit a cover story format. Just doesn't work well.

--

dpb wrote:
Steve knight wrote:

Nope, no clamps. I dunno Steve, I think you might want to look
over the article. I didn't see the article itself on-line, didn't
bother looking either, but the magazine article says there's videos
on the testing on-line.

Surfaces prepped according to manufacture suggestions.

I just tried ipe with the recommended yellow glue it still does worse
then gorilla glue. but gorilla did not do perfectly either. I have
had joints break using it too.
but it is not as critical as I build my planes a different way now.

I've used very little ipe so no real experience to pass on. I'd think
would be a place for the rsorcinol two-piece glues, maybe?

I've never been very satisfied w/ the urethanes for anything, frankly.

I did notice there are several letters to the editors on the article
in the last FWW taking them to task for several things -- the basic
answer was on the lines of my main complaint -- "Well, it would have
been too much work to do whatever..." The problem of a magazine
trying to undertake what really should be a longterm research project
and make it fit a cover story format. Just doesn't work well.

Seems to me that some classes of research could be conducted in a
"contrulled service utilization" format. They have furniture in their
offices, desks, tables, chairs, etc. So replace the factory made stuff
with test articles. Glue up the drawers with one side using one kind of
glue and the other using another, that sort of thing, keep careful
records, and after five or ten or thirty years they'll know if any
particular glue is having problems with that particular kind of wood.

In one sense it's not as good as a laboratory full of test specimens
being carefully aged and loaded under controlled conditions, but in
another it would be a good "reality check" on the lab results.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
dpb wrote:
Steve knight wrote:
Nope, no clamps. I dunno Steve, I think you might want to look
over the article. I didn't see the article itself on-line, didn't
bother looking either, but the magazine article says there's videos
on the testing on-line.

Surfaces prepped according to manufacture suggestions.
I just tried ipe with the recommended yellow glue it still does worse
then gorilla glue. but gorilla did not do perfectly either. I have
had joints break using it too.
but it is not as critical as I build my planes a different way now.
I've used very little ipe so no real experience to pass on. I'd think
would be a place for the rsorcinol two-piece glues, maybe?

I've never been very satisfied w/ the urethanes for anything, frankly.

I did notice there are several letters to the editors on the article
in the last FWW taking them to task for several things -- the basic
answer was on the lines of my main complaint -- "Well, it would have
been too much work to do whatever..." The problem of a magazine
trying to undertake what really should be a longterm research project
and make it fit a cover story format. Just doesn't work well.

Seems to me that some classes of research could be conducted in a
"contrulled service utilization" format. They have furniture in their
offices, desks, tables, chairs, etc. So replace the factory made stuff
with test articles. Glue up the drawers with one side using one kind of
glue and the other using another, that sort of thing, keep careful
records, and after five or ten or thirty years they'll know if any
particular glue is having problems with that particular kind of wood.

In one sense it's not as good as a laboratory full of test specimens
being carefully aged and loaded under controlled conditions, but in
another it would be a good "reality check" on the lab results.

Certainly one way to approach it. There is a pretty good body of
evidence that hide glue works pretty well for many applications, for
example, and that "regular old wood glue" is quite strong enough for
edge joining from that kind of experience...

Two things I'd note (neither intended as criticism, just noting...

First, there is a significant amount of research from the FPL and other
organizations available under controlled testing which addresses much of
the questions the FWW article was after.

Second, for anything other than the casual woodworker or ordinary
production, the question posed to these people or the manufacturers can
often be addressed for specific situations. For specialty applications
or high volume situations it may well be worth such an effort.

--

"J. Clarke" wrote in news:f97iai0p3
@news2.newsguy.com:

snip

Seems to me that some classes of research could be conducted in a
"contrulled service utilization" format. They have furniture in their
offices, desks, tables, chairs, etc. So replace the factory made stuff
with test articles. Glue up the drawers with one side using one kind of
glue and the other using another, that sort of thing, keep careful
records, and after five or ten or thirty years they'll know if any
particular glue is having problems with that particular kind of wood.

In one sense it's not as good as a laboratory full of test specimens
being carefully aged and loaded under controlled conditions, but in
another it would be a good "reality check" on the lab results.


In five years, there will be three new formulations of the product, for
five different reasons, and all will suffice for holding stuff together for
generations to come.

There are just too many other things that really 'need knowing'...

Patriarch