Hi,
Just wondering which type of fitting is best/suitable for central
heating system. I'm happy with doing both types but just have better
success with capillary. I am only shortening one pipe to fit a smaller
double radiator.

Thanks
Olly

In article . com,
Olly writes
Hi,
Just wondering which type of fitting is best/suitable for central
heating system. I'm happy with doing both types but just have better
success with capillary. I am only shortening one pipe to fit a smaller
double radiator.

For simple stuff I use capillary, the cost premium is minimal and they're so
simple to use. I use end feed where I have a number of joints close
together that have to be made separately.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article . com,
Olly writes
Hi,
Just wondering which type of fitting is best/suitable for central
heating system. I'm happy with doing both types but just have better
success with capillary. I am only shortening one pipe to fit a smaller
double radiator.

For simple stuff I use capillary, the cost premium is minimal and they're
so
simple to use. I use end feed where I have a number of joints close
together that have to be made separately.

Is there a terminology difference going on here?

AFAIK the solder joints all work by capillary action, and so I'd call them
end feed and yorkshire/solder ring.

Is Olly saying he has better success with end feed?

(in which case the answer is simply "use that then". Indeed the basic answer
is to use whichever you're happier with.)

cheers,
clive

Suppose I did mean end feed thanks thats good was just checking if
there was a certain one to use with heating as every heating system
ive looked at has end fed joints.
Thanks thats this weekend sorted
Olly

"Olly" wrote in message
ps.com...
Suppose I did mean end feed thanks thats good was just checking if
there was a certain one to use with heating as every heating system
ive looked at has end fed joints.
Thanks thats this weekend sorted
Olly


Use whichever you feel most comfortable with, most plumbers use end feed as
they are loads cheaper.

Richard
www.fullflow-plumbing.co.uk

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 18:43:40 +0100, "Clive George"
wrote:

AFAIK the solder joints all work by capillary action, and so I'd call them
end feed and yorkshire/solder ring.

Solder rings don't always have to work by capillary action, if you don't
heat them for long enough. It's possible to make them just by melting
the ring in situ without correct flow. It's obviously a weaker resultant
joint, particularly if there's vibration around..

If you can do it right in the first place, an end feed is just as easy.
It's not rocket science.

IMHO, if you're Drivel, use a ring. If you want it to work, use an end
feed. Neater and cheaper too.

In article , Clive George
writes
"fred" wrote in message ...
In article . com,
Olly writes
Hi,
Just wondering which type of fitting is best/suitable for central
heating system. I'm happy with doing both types but just have better
success with capillary. I am only shortening one pipe to fit a smaller
double radiator.

For simple stuff I use capillary, the cost premium is minimal and they're
so
simple to use. I use end feed where I have a number of joints close
together that have to be made separately.

Is there a terminology difference going on here?

AFAIK the solder joints all work by capillary action, and so I'd call them
end feed and yorkshire/solder ring.

Yes, my bad, substitute solder ring where I said capillary and all is well.

Though as you say, if Olly is happy to use end feed then why not.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

Olly wrote:

Just wondering which type of fitting is best/suitable for central
heating system. I'm happy with doing both types but just have better
success with capillary. I am only shortening one pipe to fit a smaller
double radiator.

I assume you mean end feed vs yorkshire fittings (both of which are
capillary fittings). Use whichever works best for you. End feed is
cheaper and looks neater, it also takes less heating and so it quicker.
Yorkshire is slightly "simpler" since you don't need to add solder.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Olly" wrote in message
ps.com...
Suppose I did mean end feed thanks thats good was just checking if
there was a certain one to use with heating as every heating system
ive looked at has end fed joints.

Well, they are cheaper, look better, and if you're any good you don't need
the shortcut of the solder ring fitter, so since at a guess most heating
isn't DIYed (posters here excepted :-) ) it would seem likely that it's all
done with end feed.

Thanks thats this weekend sorted

Enjoy :-)

cheers,
clive

In article . com,
Olly wrote:
Just wondering which type of fitting is best/suitable for central
heating system. I'm happy with doing both types but just have better
success with capillary. I am only shortening one pipe to fit a smaller
double radiator.

I assume you're comparing yorkshire (solder ring) with end feed?
If so the parameters for making a good joint are identical - cleanliness,
decent flux and the correct amount of heat. For a couple of joints the
difference in cost may be small but for many end feed gives a considerable
saving as well as looking neater.

--
*Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
Solder rings don't always have to work by capillary action, if you don't
heat them for long enough. It's possible to make them just by melting
the ring in situ without correct flow. It's obviously a weaker resultant
joint, particularly if there's vibration around..

Unless you see the solder flow at the fitting edge I'm not quite sure how
you'd know it had melted anywhere? I've come across a yorkshire which
wasn't leaking and had never been heated. ;-)

--
*A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 22:38:20 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

I assume you mean end feed vs yorkshire fittings (both of which are
capillary fittings). Use whichever works best for you. End feed is
cheaper and looks neater, it also takes less heating and so it quicker.
Yorkshire is slightly "simpler" since you don't need to add solder.

This can be an advantage if you're making a joint in an awkward place
where you can't get another hand to to feed solder. Personally I use
solder-ring for most common fittings since they're cheap enough, but
end-feed for more exotic ones where the price of yorkshire is exorbitant.

I suspect most traditionally-trained pro plumbers use end-feed as that's
what they were taught in college.

--
John Stumbles

Testiculate [v.t]
To wave one's arms around while talking ********.

John Stumbles wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 22:38:20 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

I assume you mean end feed vs yorkshire fittings (both of which are
capillary fittings). Use whichever works best for you. End feed is
cheaper and looks neater, it also takes less heating and so it quicker.
Yorkshire is slightly "simpler" since you don't need to add solder.

This can be an advantage if you're making a joint in an awkward place
where you can't get another hand to to feed solder. Personally I use
solder-ring for most common fittings since they're cheap enough, but
end-feed for more exotic ones where the price of yorkshire is exorbitant.

For soldered fittings, I guess I use a mix of 90% end feed, and 10%
Yorkshire - for just the reasons you cite... (or on the odd occasion you
need to get something in a hurry from a shed and they only have Yorkshire.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:47:59 +0100 someone who may be John Rumm
wrote this:-

For soldered fittings, I guess I use a mix of 90% end feed, and 10%
Yorkshire - for just the reasons you cite... (or on the odd occasion you
need to get something in a hurry from a shed and they only have Yorkshire.

If I was working in pipework then I would certainly use end feed
fittings, just for the cost. However, as I only ever do DIY pipework
and can go months without making any joints, the extra cost of
Yorkshire fittings is not dramatic. Provided they are heated up
properly, by heating the pipe rather than the fitting, they are
almost foolproof.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

While we're on the subject of soldered joints, how do you clean the
ends of the pipes and the inside of the fittings? I use wire wool and
for the fittings I rotate it inside using my little finger usually as
that's the only one that fits. Needless to say my finger soon gets
sore. there must be a pro way to clean fittings etc. What is it?

Also is there a website that has a video showing how to make capillary
joints (not yorkshire)?

In article . com,
wrote:
While we're on the subject of soldered joints, how do you clean the
ends of the pipes and the inside of the fittings? I use wire wool and
for the fittings I rotate it inside using my little finger usually as
that's the only one that fits. Needless to say my finger soon gets
sore. there must be a pro way to clean fittings etc. What is it?

Just use an aggressive flux. The inside of fittings don't usually get
contaminated with anything that can stop this working - unlike the outside
of tubing. Helps if you keep fittings in a stout plastic bag etc to stop
them getting 'dirty' in the first place.

--
*I brake for no apparent reason.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
wrote:
While we're on the subject of soldered joints, how do you clean the
ends of the pipes and the inside of the fittings? I use wire wool and
for the fittings I rotate it inside using my little finger usually as
that's the only one that fits. Needless to say my finger soon gets
sore. there must be a pro way to clean fittings etc. What is it?

Just use an aggressive flux. The inside of fittings don't usually get
contaminated with anything that can stop this working

What planet is he from?

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
wrote:
While we're on the subject of soldered joints, how do you clean the
ends of the pipes and the inside of the fittings? I use wire wool and
for the fittings I rotate it inside using my little finger usually as
that's the only one that fits. Needless to say my finger soon gets
sore. there must be a pro way to clean fittings etc. What is it?

Just use an aggressive flux. The inside of fittings don't usually get
contaminated with anything that can stop this working

What planet is he from?

Not the same one as you, that's for sure.


--
*Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:20:56 -0700, clangers_snout wrote:

While we're on the subject of soldered joints, how do you clean the
ends of the pipes and the inside of the fittings? I use wire wool and
for the fittings I rotate it inside using my little finger usually as
that's the only one that fits. Needless to say my finger soon gets
sore. there must be a pro way to clean fittings etc. What is it?

For pipe ends I use Naylor's plumber's abrasive strip on a roll (from BES)
and/or those pot scourers that look like steel swarf. For inside fittings
a cylindrical wire brush for the job, from screwfix, toolstation or any PM.


--
John Stumbles

What do you mean, talking about it isn't oral sex?

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:20:56 -0700, wrote:

While we're on the subject of soldered joints, how do you clean the
ends of the pipes and the inside of the fittings?

Not by sticking a finger in it!

A roller wheel cutter leaves a sharp burr on the inside of the pipe.
Stick your finger in there, rotate it, and the slice you can get from
the edge will make you wish you'd stuck to woodpeckers.

There are wire brushes sold specially for this. They're cheap.

It's a bit like working with plastic pipe. Yes, you can use a hacksaw
for cutting it, it just doesn't work at all well.

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:17:08 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Just use an aggressive flux.

No. Any flux aggressive enough to make that approach reliable is going
to revisit you with a pinhole leak in a few years. Owing to its
location, it's just not practical to scrub away all flux traces from
installed pipework.

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
While we're on the subject of soldered joints, how do you clean the
ends of the pipes and the inside of the fittings?

Not by sticking a finger in it!

A roller wheel cutter leaves a sharp burr on the inside of the pipe.
Stick your finger in there, rotate it, and the slice you can get from
the edge will make you wish you'd stuck to woodpeckers.

Why would you want to clean the inside of the pipe? The solder goes on the
outside - usually. It could be argued anything that prevented it creeping
where not needed is a good thing.

There are wire brushes sold specially for this. They're cheap.

It's a bit like working with plastic pipe. Yes, you can use a hacksaw
for cutting it, it just doesn't work at all well.

--
*I wished the buck stopped here, as I could use a few*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:17:08 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Just use an aggressive flux.

No. Any flux aggressive enough to make that approach reliable is going
to revisit you with a pinhole leak in a few years. Owing to its
location, it's just not practical to scrub away all flux traces from
installed pipework.

The aggressive fluxes are water soluble so will get washed away - except
in the case of gas pipes. But I don't think we were discussing those.

I've not had a problem with pinhole leaks despite using aggressive flux
exclusively. And like any chemical reaction it isn't driven on by
perpetual motion - once its reaction is over it will do no more 'damage'.

--
*Don't use no double negatives *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
While we're on the subject of soldered joints, how do you clean the
ends of the pipes and the inside of the fittings?

Not by sticking a finger in it!

A roller wheel cutter leaves a sharp burr on the inside of the pipe.
Stick your finger in there, rotate it, and the slice you can get from
the edge will make you wish you'd stuck to woodpeckers.

Why would you want to clean the inside of the pipe? The solder goes on the
outside - usually. It could be argued anything that prevented it creeping
where not needed is a good thing.

You normally want to clean the inside of the fitting rather than the
pipe. The exception to this is if you use a pipe flaring tool to make
pipe to pipe end feed joints without using any fittings at all.

Many pipe cutters (the monument pattern ones) have a triangular spike on
the end that can be used to ream the burr from the inside of a cut pipe
as well.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
While we're on the subject of soldered joints, how do you clean the
ends of the pipes and the inside of the fittings?

Not by sticking a finger in it!

A roller wheel cutter leaves a sharp burr on the inside of the pipe.
Stick your finger in there, rotate it, and the slice you can get from
the edge will make you wish you'd stuck to woodpeckers.

Why would you want to clean the inside of the pipe? The solder goes on
the outside - usually. It could be argued anything that prevented it
creeping where not needed is a good thing.

You normally want to clean the inside of the fitting rather than the
pipe.

Indeed.

The exception to this is if you use a pipe flaring tool to make
pipe to pipe end feed joints without using any fittings at all.

Yes indeedy.

Many pipe cutters (the monument pattern ones) have a triangular spike on
the end that can be used to ream the burr from the inside of a cut pipe
as well.

Good practice to aid water flow anyway.

--
*Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 16:44:10 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

I've not had a problem with pinhole leaks despite using aggressive flux
exclusively. And like any chemical reaction it isn't driven on by
perpetual motion - once its reaction is over it will do no more 'damage'.

Not (empirically true) for cuprous alloys though. There are corrosion
mechanisms (look up "bronze disease") that go on for as long as there's
atmospheric moisture and unreacted metal.

If flux residues didn't cause pinholes after a few years, I wouldn't
have had to redecorate my landing.

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 16:39:27 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Why would you want to clean the inside of the pipe?

You wouldn't -- but how many people will tend to do so (at least the
tip) whilst scrubbing around the outside of it.

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
I've not had a problem with pinhole leaks despite using aggressive flux
exclusively. And like any chemical reaction it isn't driven on by
perpetual motion - once its reaction is over it will do no more
'damage'.

Not (empirically true) for cuprous alloys though. There are corrosion
mechanisms (look up "bronze disease") that go on for as long as there's
atmospheric moisture and unreacted metal.

If flux residues didn't cause pinholes after a few years, I wouldn't
have had to redecorate my landing.

All the plumbing in this house was installed by me about 30 years ago
using Everflux as the flux. The outsides of the fittings wiped with a damp
cloth after soldering. No problems to date and no corrosion showing on any
visible ones. I have seen poor quality end feed fittings which developed
pin holes in a short time, though.

--
*One of us is thinking about sex... OK, it's me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
wrote:
While we're on the subject of soldered joints, how do you clean the
ends of the pipes and the inside of the fittings? I use wire wool and
for the fittings I rotate it inside using my little finger usually as
that's the only one that fits. Needless to say my finger soon gets
sore. there must be a pro way to clean fittings etc. What is it?

Just use an aggressive flux. The inside of fittings don't usually get
contaminated with anything that can stop this working

What planet is he from?

Not the same one as you, that's for sure.

He has sense at last.