I've seen it said its safer to set the blade so it only protrudes 1/4"
below the work.
http://www.powertoolinstitute.com/safety/cirsaw.html
However IME this means any jam causes kickback, whereas with the blade
fully out a jam just stalls the machine, pulling the workpiece toward
the baseplate with no kickback. The times I've had to use the blade
shallow I really dont like the way it handles, it can kick easily, and
I dont see how that can be safer. It also means more forward force is
needed to make progress, which doesnt strike me as adding to safety
either.

Any input on this?


Oh - there was recently a thread with a link to various ways circular
saws have caused accidents. I've googled for it but again goog doesnt
seem to be returning it for some reason. Anyone recall the thread
title?


NT

wrote in message
ups.com...
I've seen it said its safer to set the blade so it only protrudes 1/4"
below the work.
http://www.powertoolinstitute.com/safety/cirsaw.html
However IME this means any jam causes kickback, whereas with the blade
fully out a jam just stalls the machine, pulling the workpiece toward
the baseplate with no kickback. The times I've had to use the blade
shallow I really dont like the way it handles, it can kick easily, and
I dont see how that can be safer. It also means more forward force is
needed to make progress, which doesnt strike me as adding to safety
either.

Any input on this?

Yes. You need one of these!!


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
I've seen it said its safer to set the blade so it only protrudes 1/4"
below the work.
http://www.powertoolinstitute.com/safety/cirsaw.html
However IME this means any jam causes kickback, whereas with the blade
fully out a jam just stalls the machine, pulling the workpiece toward
the baseplate with no kickback. The times I've had to use the blade
shallow I really dont like the way it handles, it can kick easily, and
I dont see how that can be safer. It also means more forward force is
needed to make progress, which doesnt strike me as adding to safety
either.

Any input on this?

Yes. You need one of these!!



Or even one of these:

http://www.sawstop.com/how-it-works-overview.htm

ooops!

In message , Bob Mannix
writes
"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
ups.com...
I've seen it said its safer to set the blade so it only protrudes 1/4"
below the work.
http://www.powertoolinstitute.com/safety/cirsaw.html
However IME this means any jam causes kickback, whereas with the blade
fully out a jam just stalls the machine, pulling the workpiece toward
the baseplate with no kickback. The times I've had to use the blade
shallow I really dont like the way it handles, it can kick easily, and
I dont see how that can be safer. It also means more forward force is
needed to make progress, which doesnt strike me as adding to safety
either.

Any input on this?

Yes. You need one of these!!

http://www.sawstop.com/how-it-works-overview.htm

slight overkill

Looks very pricey, & having an 'aloominum' brake digging into your saw
blades is surely going to shorten their life considerably.

--
Si

Si wrote:
In message , Bob Mannix
writes

http://www.sawstop.com/how-it-works-overview.htm

slight overkill

Looks very pricey, & having an 'aloominum' brake digging into your saw
blades is surely going to shorten their life considerably.


Don't know about the blade but the brake is a one-shot item. I have a
feeling that I have seen a cost of $200 a time mentioned. I suspect that
that one fact alone would reduce accidents. It seems a perverse aspect
of human nature that loosing $200 if one takes unnecessary risks is
likely to have more effect then loosing a finger.

Andrew

Si wrote:

Looks very pricey, & having an 'aloominum' brake digging into your saw
blades is surely going to shorten their life considerably.

I think it kills the blade stone dead - never mind shorten it! Better
than lopping bits of you off though.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Bob Mannix wrote:
"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
I've seen it said its safer to set the blade so it only protrudes
1/4" below the work.
http://www.powertoolinstitute.com/safety/cirsaw.html
However IME this means any jam causes kickback, whereas with the
blade fully out a jam just stalls the machine, pulling the
workpiece toward the baseplate with no kickback. The times I've had
to use the blade shallow I really dont like the way it handles, it
can kick easily, and I dont see how that can be safer. It also
means more forward force is needed to make progress, which doesnt
strike me as adding to safety either.

Any input on this?

Yes. You need one of these!!



Or even one of these:

http://www.sawstop.com/how-it-works-overview.htm


Think the OP was refering to hand held circular saws, not saw benches.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

In article . com,
wrote:

I've seen it said its safer to set the blade so it only protrudes 1/4"
below the work.

I thought this had more to do with the angle at which the teeth meet the
wood (and hence the cleaness of the cut) than safety. Is that not
correct?

I think this is probably more important on saw benches than handheld
circular saws.

On a saw bench the crown guard should only have a smallish clearance
above the timber being fed through. That reduces the chances of
feeding in a finger, and of a kickback if the timber lifts off the
table.

With a handheld circular saw, the guard retraction/return is
automatic. Both hands are on the saw, so the chance of a finger
interaction is small. Should the saw kick right out of the job, your
stance and hold should minimise the chances of blade contact - and if
that fails, the blade guard should close in time. However - only
having a small part of the blade exposed below the job probably does
reduce the chances of certain other types of blade contact accident. I
do agree though, it makes many saws more awkward to hold.

In article .com,
says...
I think this is probably more important on saw benches than handheld
circular saws.

On a saw bench the crown guard should only have a smallish clearance
above the timber being fed through. That reduces the chances of
feeding in a finger, and of a kickback if the timber lifts off the
table.


The thing NOT do do with a table saw is to remove the guard. I foolishly
did this as the guard kept getting in the way with larger pieces of
timber. However, one day the saw did a violent kickback. It was so
violent it knocked the timber out of my hands and the entire table
rocked onto it's back two legs, then rocked forward onto it's two front
legs - presenting the unguarded circular saw blade straight towards my
groin. Thankfully it rocked back upright again. Had it toppled or gone
another couple of inches, well....
Closest I've come to a vasectomy - and a heart attack!
--
David in Normandy.
(The free MicroPlanet Gravity newsreader is great for eliminating
rubbish and cross-posts)

Hi,

What tends to make a kickback occur on a circular saw or table saw?

Is it cutting green wood or poorly supported wood that pinches the
blade?

cheers,
Pete.

Several causes. Two common ones are the cut closing up behind the
blade and pinching the rising back edge of the blade, and improper
adjustment of the fence leading to pinching between fence and blade.
Often compounded by dull/damaged blades, missing or incorrectly
adjusted guards. Missing or incorrectly adjusted riving knives.
Timbers not properly supported leading to twisting etc. Ploughing on
regardless of warning signs (sudden increase in resistance to feed,
saw slowing and labouring).

In article om, Pete C
says...
Hi,

What tends to make a kickback occur on a circular saw or table saw?

Is it cutting green wood or poorly supported wood that pinches the
blade?

cheers,
Pete.


I'd guess poorly supported timber i.e. not flat against the table, or
presenting the timber to the saw too quickly. The thing is that when you
get a kickback it is so fast you can't always tell what caused it.
Bloody frightening though and potentially very dangerous. I seem to
remember the particular kickback I refer to occurring when cross-cutting
some 3 x 2" softwood.

Familiarity breeds contempt. I'd been working for months without the
guard and found it easier to use the saw when handling large pieces of
timber.
--
David in Normandy.
(The free MicroPlanet Gravity newsreader is great for eliminating
rubbish and cross-posts)

The thing NOT do do ...

I meant to add that with the largest saw bench I've used (Elliott,
600mm blade) the blade was usually left at it's maximum height, but a
very good independent guard (not the kind attached to the riving
knife) was always wound down close to the job.

I do deep ripping (aka trench cuts) on my own TS - but use a homemade
Shaw (tunnel) guard to reduce the chances of blade contact. There
rarely is a reason to have no guard at all (I've done it very
occasionally when trimming an awkward piece that would foul on a crown
guard)

On 2007-09-26 18:56:28 +0100, David in Normandy said:

In article .com,
says...
I think this is probably more important on saw benches than handheld
circular saws.

On a saw bench the crown guard should only have a smallish clearance
above the timber being fed through. That reduces the chances of
feeding in a finger, and of a kickback if the timber lifts off the
table.


The thing NOT do do with a table saw is to remove the guard. I foolishly
did this as the guard kept getting in the way with larger pieces of
timber. However, one day the saw did a violent kickback. It was so
violent it knocked the timber out of my hands and the entire table
rocked onto it's back two legs, then rocked forward onto it's two front
legs - presenting the unguarded circular saw blade straight towards my
groin. Thankfully it rocked back upright again. Had it toppled or gone
another couple of inches, well....
Closest I've come to a vasectomy - and a heart attack!

Standing at the side is the way to avoid this.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-09-26 18:56:28 +0100, David in Normandy
said:

In article .com,
says...
I think this is probably more important on saw benches than handheld
circular saws.

On a saw bench the crown guard should only have a smallish clearance
above the timber being fed through. That reduces the chances of
feeding in a finger, and of a kickback if the timber lifts off the
table.


The thing NOT do do with a table saw is to remove the guard. I foolishly
did this as the guard kept getting in the way with larger pieces of
timber. However, one day the saw did a violent kickback. It was so
violent it knocked the timber out of my hands and the entire table
rocked onto it's back two legs, then rocked forward onto it's two front
legs - presenting the unguarded circular saw blade straight towards my
groin. Thankfully it rocked back upright again. Had it toppled or gone
another couple of inches, well....
Closest I've come to a vasectomy - and a heart attack!

Standing at the side is the way to avoid this.

Great for ripping I imagine.

On 2007-09-26 22:45:40 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-09-26 18:56:28 +0100, David in Normandy said:

In article .com,
says...
I think this is probably more important on saw benches than handheld
circular saws.

On a saw bench the crown guard should only have a smallish clearance
above the timber being fed through. That reduces the chances of
feeding in a finger, and of a kickback if the timber lifts off the
table.


The thing NOT do do with a table saw is to remove the guard. I foolishly
did this as the guard kept getting in the way with larger pieces of
timber. However, one day the saw did a violent kickback. It was so
violent it knocked the timber out of my hands and the entire table
rocked onto it's back two legs, then rocked forward onto it's two front
legs - presenting the unguarded circular saw blade straight towards my
groin. Thankfully it rocked back upright again. Had it toppled or gone
another couple of inches, well....
Closest I've come to a vasectomy - and a heart attack!

Standing at the side is the way to avoid this.

Great for ripping I imagine.

It is.

Even better is to clamp the material to a sliding table on the left of
the blade and not to use the rip fence at all.

David in Normandy wrote:
In article .com,
says...
I think this is probably more important on saw benches than handheld
circular saws.

On a saw bench the crown guard should only have a smallish clearance
above the timber being fed through. That reduces the chances of
feeding in a finger, and of a kickback if the timber lifts off the
table.


The thing NOT do do with a table saw is to remove the guard. I foolishly
did this as the guard kept getting in the way with larger pieces of
timber. However, one day the saw did a violent kickback. It was so
violent it knocked the timber out of my hands and the entire table
rocked onto it's back two legs, then rocked forward onto it's two front
legs - presenting the unguarded circular saw blade straight towards my
groin. Thankfully it rocked back upright again. Had it toppled or gone
another couple of inches, well....
Closest I've come to a vasectomy - and a heart attack!

More to do with lack of weight in the bench. Either bolt it to the floor
or put some sandbags on the base. It should be impossible to push over

wrote:
I've seen it said its safer to set the blade so it only protrudes 1/4"
below the work.
http://www.powertoolinstitute.com/safety/cirsaw.html
However IME this means any jam causes kickback, whereas with the blade
fully out a jam just stalls the machine, pulling the workpiece toward
the baseplate with no kickback. The times I've had to use the blade
shallow I really dont like the way it handles, it can kick easily, and
I dont see how that can be safer. It also means more forward force is
needed to make progress, which doesnt strike me as adding to safety
either.

Any input on this?

I've always been told that you should adjust the saw so the gullet of the
teeth just clears the thickness of the work piece. The theory being that
the peripheral speed of the blade is highest at the very edge. This should
give the best performance e.g. cleanest cut, maximum efficiency, less
effort.

I've never had a circ saw kickback when doing this. Mind you, as they say;
"For maximum control, hold the saw firmly with both hands after securing the
workpiece".

I always use a circ saw with both hands just so I know where both are - away
from the blade. And always stnd to one side of the cut line.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

The Medway Handyman wrote:
wrote:

I've seen it said its safer to set the blade so it only protrudes 1/4"
below the work.
http://www.powertoolinstitute.com/safety/cirsaw.html
However IME this means any jam causes kickback, whereas with the blade
fully out a jam just stalls the machine, pulling the workpiece toward
the baseplate with no kickback. The times I've had to use the blade
shallow I really dont like the way it handles, it can kick easily, and
I dont see how that can be safer. It also means more forward force is
needed to make progress, which doesnt strike me as adding to safety
either.

Any input on this?

I've always been told that you should adjust the saw so the gullet of the
teeth just clears the thickness of the work piece. The theory being that
the peripheral speed of the blade is highest at the very edge. This should
give the best performance e.g. cleanest cut, maximum efficiency, less
effort.

I dont get it... tip speed is the same wherever you put the blade.

Theyre vicious little buggers but so useful. Scariest moment so far
was when a fence exploded. Yeah, it was that violent.


NT