Hi All,

The detached house we bought came with a detached single garage with a
flat roof. It's an eye-sore and badly built. We plan to knock it down
and rebuild one of the same size but with a pitched roof.

Getting planning permission to do this doesn't worry me.

What I'm worried about is the other part of our plan -- I want the new
garage to have a partition wall splitting the rear 1/3rd of it off.
This area will have its own door and desk in it. It will be my office
(I am self employed and work at home) and full-time place of work. The
house itself is the registered address of my limited company.

How much more complicated does this make it? Does it then become
"commercial" property?

Should I own up to the office part of the plan at all? I'd like to do
it all "by the book" but only if it doesn't turn in to some
bureaucratic nightmare.

Jake

Jake wrote:

What I'm worried about is the other part of our plan -- I want the new
garage to have a partition wall splitting the rear 1/3rd of it off.
This area will have its own door and desk in it. It will be my office
(I am self employed and work at home) and full-time place of work. The
house itself is the registered address of my limited company.

How much more complicated does this make it? Does it then become
"commercial" property?

As long as it is not used exclusively for work then you are ok.

So stick a comfy chair and a small TV in there, and call it your study.
It is not exclusively used for business and hence does not attract
business rates or require a change of use.

Should I own up to the office part of the plan at all? I'd like to do
it all "by the book" but only if it doesn't turn in to some
bureaucratic nightmare.

If you describe it as a "study area" I can't see it being a problem.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 2007-09-11 14:29:53 +0100, Jake said:

Hi All,

The detached house we bought came with a detached single garage with a
flat roof. It's an eye-sore and badly built. We plan to knock it down
and rebuild one of the same size but with a pitched roof.

Getting planning permission to do this doesn't worry me.

What I'm worried about is the other part of our plan -- I want the new
garage to have a partition wall splitting the rear 1/3rd of it off.
This area will have its own door and desk in it. It will be my office
(I am self employed and work at home) and full-time place of work. The
house itself is the registered address of my limited company.

How much more complicated does this make it? Does it then become
"commercial" property?

Should I own up to the office part of the plan at all? I'd like to do
it all "by the book" but only if it doesn't turn in to some
bureaucratic nightmare.

Jake

Generally the planning aspect would relate to if there is a loss of off
street parking as a major point.

Also, if the planners believe that you are running a business and all
of the implications of that it can be an issue.

Finally, there is the general statutory planning stuff in terms of
sizes and location etc.

You have then to do a building control application, which has to do
with the construction and safety aspects.


If you want to avoid some of the bureauratic dimension, could you not
move your company's registered office to commercial premises - e.g.
your accountant's office? Assuming that you are doing something that
does not involve movement of large amounts of goods and deliveries, you
are in effect working from home which is rather different to running a
full scale business. There are tax implications as well and this
is something to discuss with your accountant. I would do all of that
first before contacting the LA.

Talk to your planners, you may well find guidance on the web site and you
will probably find them very reasonable and helpful. Certainly there was no
"commercial premises" issue when I started working from home in my existing
study / office. Admittedly not a garage conversion.

In article , Andy Hall
scribeth thus
On 2007-09-11 14:29:53 +0100, Jake said:

Hi All,

The detached house we bought came with a detached single garage with a
flat roof. It's an eye-sore and badly built. We plan to knock it down
and rebuild one of the same size but with a pitched roof.

Getting planning permission to do this doesn't worry me.

What I'm worried about is the other part of our plan -- I want the new
garage to have a partition wall splitting the rear 1/3rd of it off.
This area will have its own door and desk in it. It will be my office
(I am self employed and work at home) and full-time place of work. The
house itself is the registered address of my limited company.

How much more complicated does this make it? Does it then become
"commercial" property?

Should I own up to the office part of the plan at all? I'd like to do
it all "by the book" but only if it doesn't turn in to some
bureaucratic nightmare.

Jake

Generally the planning aspect would relate to if there is a loss of off
street parking as a major point.

Also, if the planners believe that you are running a business and all
of the implications of that it can be an issue.

Finally, there is the general statutory planning stuff in terms of
sizes and location etc.

You have then to do a building control application, which has to do
with the construction and safety aspects.


If you want to avoid some of the bureauratic dimension, could you not
move your company's registered office to commercial premises - e.g.
your accountant's office? Assuming that you are doing something that
does not involve movement of large amounts of goods and deliveries, you
are in effect working from home which is rather different to running a
full scale business. There are tax implications as well and this
is something to discuss with your accountant. I would do all of that
first before contacting the LA.



If you do use it for business use well there's business and business and
some firms can be run very well from home and thats one less commuter
using the roads so less carbon and the council can't argue with
that!....


As to the tax.. don't bother if you change for the use of it to the firm
you'll get taxed on the income from it!..
--
Tony Sayer

On 11 Sep, 14:29, Jake wrote:
Hi All,

The detached house we bought came with a detached single garage with a
flat roof. It's an eye-sore and badly built. We plan to knock it down
and rebuild one of the same size but with a pitched roof.

Getting planning permission to do this doesn't worry me.

What I'm worried about is the other part of our plan -- I want the new
garage to have a partition wall splitting the rear 1/3rd of it off.
This area will have its own door and desk in it. It will be my office
(I am self employed and work at home) and full-time place of work. The
house itself is the registered address of my limited company.

How much more complicated does this make it? Does it then become
"commercial" property?

Should I own up to the office part of the plan at all? I'd like to do
it all "by the book" but only if it doesn't turn in to some
bureaucratic nightmare.

Jake


This is sort of opposite to some reponses ... if you are not changing
anything externaly then, you could simply not tell Planning.
However be advised this is a material change of use, and is therefore
liable to Building Regs ........ the garage would have been built as
non-hatitable, and therefore do not have to comply with insulation,
fire escape etc. etc. ..

Now you might think they will never know ... but if they find out
they can force you to apply for building regs and that would mean
meetings current requirements.

I have been caught on such an issue.

Rick

On 11 Sep, 14:29, Jake wrote:
Hi All,

The detached house we bought came with a detached single garage with a
flat roof. It's an eye-sore and badly built. We plan to knock it down
and rebuild one of the same size but with a pitched roof.

Getting planning permission to do this doesn't worry me.

What I'm worried about is the other part of our plan -- I want the new
garage to have a partition wall splitting the rear 1/3rd of it off.
This area will have its own door and desk in it. It will be my office
(I am self employed and work at home) and full-time place of work. The
house itself is the registered address of my limited company.

How much more complicated does this make it? Does it then become
"commercial" property?

Should I own up to the office part of the plan at all? I'd like to do
it all "by the book" but only if it doesn't turn in to some
bureaucratic nightmare.

Jake

You don't need any planning permission for an office at home.

You are not changing the use of the property from domestic to office,
and it will still remain in class C3 - dwellings and small businesses
at home.

The only time planning may be involved, is if there is a condition on
the original planning approval for the house, to maintain the garage
as a garage. This is more likely for newer builds

You will need building regs. If it is just a desk for you, then it
will be treated a just a domestic room. If you will use it for
customers and clients, then it may well need to comply with more
onerous building and fire regs in terms of (greater) means of escape
and fire exits etc.

dg

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:36:38 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, Andy Hall
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

You have then to do a building control application, which has to do
with the construction and safety aspects.

If it's less than 30m², either 1m from the boundary or constructed
substantially of materials of limited combustibility, and isn't used
for sleeping accomodation, then it would be exempt.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

On 2007-09-11 21:51:40 +0100, Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost said:

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:36:38 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, Andy Hall
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

You have then to do a building control application, which has to do
with the construction and safety aspects.

If it's less than 30m², either 1m from the boundary or constructed
substantially of materials of limited combustibility, and isn't used
for sleeping accomodation, then it would be exempt.

Which is basically double garage size.

Does the 30m^2 rule still apply where part is an office/usable
accomodation (but not for sleeping)?

On 11 Sep, 21:51, Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:36:38 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, Andy Hall
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

You have then to do a building control application, which has to do
with the construction and safety aspects.

If it's less than 30m², either 1m from the boundary or constructed
substantially of materials of limited combustibility, and isn't used
for sleeping accomodation, then it would be exempt.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

Surely the office/habitable room element will require an application -
especially in relation to the fire precautions between this and the
garage area.

dg

In article , owain47125
@stirlingcity.coo.uk says...
Also put in a duct for phone/data and alarm cabling back to the house


Seconded I reccomend a simple PBX for clients with similar setups,
normally a BT Revelation or similar, and a partitionable alarm system is
always good as you can effectivley extend the house alarm to the
shed/garage etc.
--
Alex Threlfall
Cyberprog New Media
www.cyberprog.net
tel - 0870 446 0789
fax - 0870 446 1789

Alex Threlfall wrote:
In article , owain47125
says...
Also put in a duct for phone/data and alarm cabling back to the house


Seconded I reccomend a simple PBX for clients with similar setups,
normally a BT Revelation or similar, and a partitionable alarm system is
always good as you can effectivley extend the house alarm to the
shed/garage etc.

Don't forget to extend the front doorbell too.


--
Ian White

On Sep 11, 8:26 pm, Owain wrote:
Jake wrote:
What I'm worried about is the other part of our plan -- I want the new
garage to have a partition wall splitting the rear 1/3rd of it off.
This area will have its own door and desk in it. It will be my office
(I am self employed and work at home) and full-time place of work. The
house itself is the registered address of my limited company.
How much more complicated does this make it? Does it then become
"commercial" property?

1. Registered office does not of itself constitute business use.
2. The office will have to comply with Building Regs for habitable
structure, in particular: thermal insulation, fire barrier to the
garage, means of escape from fire.
3. If you use the office exclusively for work then (a) change of use
planning permission would be required; (b) business rates would be
payable; (c) you would lose the 'principal residence' exemption on
capital gains tax


I think 3a - 3c are wrong. I'm certain they're wrong in the case where
the office is a room in the house, rather than in the garage. I doubt
a garage is ever a "principle residence". Can you cite an
authoratative source to back up your assertions?

MBQ

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 11, 8:26 pm, Owain wrote:
Jake wrote:
What I'm worried about is the other part of our plan -- I want the new
garage to have a partition wall splitting the rear 1/3rd of it off.
This area will have its own door and desk in it. It will be my office
(I am self employed and work at home) and full-time place of work. The
house itself is the registered address of my limited company.
How much more complicated does this make it? Does it then become
"commercial" property?

1. Registered office does not of itself constitute business use.
2. The office will have to comply with Building Regs for habitable
structure, in particular: thermal insulation, fire barrier to the
garage, means of escape from fire.
3. If you use the office exclusively for work then (a) change of use
planning permission would be required; (b) business rates would be
payable; (c) you would lose the 'principal residence' exemption on
capital gains tax


I think 3a - 3c are wrong. I'm certain they're wrong in the case where
the office is a room in the house, rather than in the garage. I doubt
a garage is ever a "principle residence". Can you cite an
authoratative source to back up your assertions?


Not quite clear what he meant by "use the office exclusively for work". I
assume he means it is the sole place from which the said business runs, in
which case you might require change of use. I don't think he meant the
garage was a principle residence but that the whole property, having
undergone a change of use, was now not classed as a principle residence for
cgt. Don't know whether he's right of course but (b) and (c) would edpend on
the outcome of (a).


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

On Sep 12, 1:53 pm, Owain wrote:
wrote:
3. If you use the office exclusively for work then (a) change of use
planning permission would be required; (b) business rates would be
payable; (c) you would lose the 'principal residence' exemption on
capital gains tax
I think 3a - 3c are wrong. I'm certain they're wrong in the case where
the office is a room in the house, rather than in the garage. I doubt
a garage is ever a "principle residence".

It makes no difference. It is within the curtilage of a dwelling. You
would require a similar change of use if you were repairing cars for a
living in the garage. It is the *exclusively* for work which is important.

Can you cite an authoratative source to back up your assertions?

No; I can't remember everything I've read in the last 30 years.

Owain

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTax...ome/DG_4020890


"Self-employed and working from home
If you are self-employed and work from home you can still qualify for
private residence relief when you sell your home if the whole of your
property is used as a home, even though you work there.

However, if any part of your property is used exclusively for business
purposes, for example as:

an office
a store room
you may have to pay CGT on part of the gain you make when you sell the
property"

My reading of that is you may lose PPR on the part of the property
used exclusively for business, which isn't quite what you said.

For planning, Aylesbury Vale DC says "Planning permission may be
needed to convert a garage into living or office accommodation. The
original decision notice for your house should tell you if you need
planning permission or you can contact us" again, only a "may".

MBQ

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:43:04 -0700, a particular chimpanzee, dg
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

You will need building regs. If it is just a desk for you, then it
will be treated a just a domestic room. If you will use it for
customers and clients, then it may well need to comply with more
onerous building and fire regs in terms of (greater) means of escape
and fire exits etc.

No you won't. Schedule 2 (Exempt Buildings), Class VI to the
Regulations only refers to 'small detached buildings'. It doesn't
differentiate the use, except that it shouldn't contain sleeping
accommodation.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

Thanks to you all. Good advice and I've read it all.

In the end I took Newshound's advice and spoke to the planning dept at
my local council (Gedling in Notts). The man there was surprisingly
nice (don't know why I expected anything but) and very helpful.

If I understood him correctly it sounds like it's a formality if I
need to apply for permission at all. Apparently I can extend my house
by up to 70m3 without question as long as it's no more than 5m from
the house.

I mentioned the "study" and he said that shouldn't be a problem at
all. In fact he made it sound as though I could do what ever I liked.

Maybe it was his last day and when I apply it will be a different
matter.

He did say I should fill out a questionnaire (includes a sketch of
plans) they have online to ascertain if permission is needed. At least
then, as he said, I'll have something to "wave at the solicitors" when
I come to sell.

Jake

I should have mentioned a couple of other things he said:

I asked if the garage there now ever had planning permission in the
first place. He had a look and said there was nothing at all for our
house and that their systems go back to the 70s. I know the garage is
at least 20 years old but probably not as old as 30+.

But, he said if it's been there more than 4 years it doesn't matter
anyway.

He also said that when demolishing a structure it's as if it was never
there in their eyes so planning permission is needed as if it's a
*new* structure. Rebuilding a similar garage doesn't automatically
mean no permission is needed.

Jake

Jake wrote:
Thanks to you all. Good advice and I've read it all.

In the end I took Newshound's advice and spoke to the planning dept at
my local council (Gedling in Notts). The man there was surprisingly
nice (don't know why I expected anything but) and very helpful.

If I understood him correctly it sounds like it's a formality if I
need to apply for permission at all. Apparently I can extend my house
by up to 70m3 without question as long as it's no more than 5m from
the house.

Shouldn't that be, "as long as it *is* more than 5m from
the house" ?


I mentioned the "study" and he said that shouldn't be a problem at
all. In fact he made it sound as though I could do what ever I liked.

Maybe it was his last day and when I apply it will be a different
matter.

He did say I should fill out a questionnaire (includes a sketch of
plans) they have online to ascertain if permission is needed. At least
then, as he said, I'll have something to "wave at the solicitors" when
I come to sell.

Jake

Shouldn't that be, "as long as it *is* more than 5m from
the house" ?

Dunno. Should it? The way I interpreted it was that anything close to
the house was an extension. Anything more than 5m away starts becoming
a separate building in its own right.

Who knows...

Jake

Jake wrote:
Shouldn't that be, "as long as it *is* more than 5m from
the house" ?

Dunno. Should it? The way I interpreted it was that anything close to
the house was an extension.

And needs planning permission.


Anything more than 5m away starts becoming
a separate building in its own right.

And, if it's not living accommodation, doesn't need PP, however
substantially built it is.

Who knows...

Not me.

"Jake" wrote in message
ups.com...
Shouldn't that be, "as long as it *is* more than 5m from
the house" ?

Dunno. Should it? The way I interpreted it was that anything close to
the house was an extension. Anything more than 5m away starts becoming
a separate building in its own right.

Who knows...

Jake


AIUI; (my neighbour had an extension built) the extension cannot encroach
within five metres of the 'other' (garage) building. His extension
_extends_ from his house and it's end is up to five metres from the
pre-existing garage.

--

Brian