Hi

This morning I got a huge electrical shock from my bath tap.

Having used a multitester on it, the little led glowed bright red.
However using a multimeter, which seems reliable (tested on a battery)
there is no voltage shown.

Obviously I don't really want to touch the tap again, so are there any
suggestions as to how I can determine if the thing is live? I've done
no work of any kind on the electrics or plumbing, though I do live in
a converted house with a neighbour upstairs.

Thanks
Warren

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:53:09 -0000, wrote:

Hi

This morning I got a huge electrical shock from my bath tap.

Having used a multitester on it, the little led glowed bright red.
However using a multimeter, which seems reliable (tested on a battery)
there is no voltage shown.

Obviously I don't really want to touch the tap again, so are there any
suggestions as to how I can determine if the thing is live? I've done
no work of any kind on the electrics or plumbing, though I do live in
a converted house with a neighbour upstairs.

Switch off the mains and call in an electrician.

--
Frank Erskine

On Aug 16, 11:53 am, wrote:
Hi

This morning I got a huge electrical shock from my bath tap.

Having used a multitester on it, the little led glowed bright red.
However using a multimeter, which seems reliable (tested on a battery)
there is no voltage shown.

Was it set to measure AC voltage?

From the other evidence, it seems clear that electricity molecules are
living in your tap.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi

This morning I got a huge electrical shock from my bath tap.

Having used a multitester on it, the little led glowed bright red.
However using a multimeter, which seems reliable (tested on a battery)
there is no voltage shown.

Obviously I don't really want to touch the tap again, so are there any
suggestions as to how I can determine if the thing is live? I've done
no work of any kind on the electrics or plumbing, though I do live in
a converted house with a neighbour upstairs.

Whether its live or not is not really the issue. You need to determine
whether the earth bonding is up to scratch. Well I can tell you almost
certainly its not. Research "main equipotential bonding" and "supplementary
bonding". If necessary consult an electrician. Whatever you do, do it
quickly.

Jim A

In order to get a mains voltage shock from a tap, there has to be at
least 2 extremely serious faults. Get an electrician immediately.

I can't say which, if either, of your testers is reliable - and a
fault of this seriousness is no place for you to learn how to test
domestic electrics anyway.

Is it just possible you got a static electric shock.e.g. synthetic
clothes/carpets etc?

wrote:

This morning I got a huge electrical shock from my bath tap.

Having used a multitester on it, the little led glowed bright red.
However using a multimeter, which seems reliable (tested on a battery)
there is no voltage shown.

Where did you connect the two leads of the meter? One to the tap, but
what about the other one? What range did you have the meter set to?

Obviously I don't really want to touch the tap again, so are there any
suggestions as to how I can determine if the thing is live? I've done
no work of any kind on the electrics or plumbing, though I do live in
a converted house with a neighbour upstairs.

There are two possibilities here - either you got a static shock (these
can seem quite severe in the right circumstances), or you have a
combination of serious electrical faults.

If the latter then this is a serious fault that needs *immediate*
attention. If in any doubt at all, then call an electrician as a matter
of urgency.

Your bathroom should have equipotential bonding - i.e. heavy gauge
earthing wires that link all exposed metalwork together (taps, radiators
etc). This should ensure that if a voltage ever does get coupled to
earth it affects all the metalwork at once - thus making it much harder
to get a shock because the voltage difference between any two things you
can touch should be close to zero, even if relative to a true earth it
is higher.

Secondly the only way for a earth connection to become live is if there
is a fault in either an appliance or the wiring. This should result in
the fuse or circuit breaker opening; however if this is not happening it
suggests that your earth is not correctly connected - another serious
fault.

We can advise how to locate these faults, but unless you have access to
some specialised test gear you may not be able to DIY all the work.
If you want details of how to test these things, then post back here.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 16 Aug, 12:59, John Rumm wrote:
wrote:
This morning I got a huge electrical shock from my bath tap.

Having used a multitester on it, the little led glowed bright red.
However using a multimeter, which seems reliable (tested on a battery)
there is no voltage shown.

Where did you connect the two leads of the meter? One to the tap, but
what about the other one? What range did you have the meter set to?

Obviously I don't really want to touch the tap again, so are there any
suggestions as to how I can determine if the thing is live? I've done
no work of any kind on the electrics or plumbing, though I do live in
a converted house with a neighbour upstairs.

There are two possibilities here - either you got a static shock (these
can seem quite severe in the right circumstances), or you have a
combination of serious electrical faults.

If the latter then this is a serious fault that needs *immediate*
attention. If in any doubt at all, then call an electrician as a matter
of urgency.

Yourbathroomshould have equipotential bonding - i.e. heavy gaugeearthingwires that link all exposed metalwork together (taps, radiators
etc). This should ensure that if a voltage ever does get coupled to
earth it affects all the metalwork at once - thus making it much harder
to get a shock because the voltage difference between any two things you
can touch should be close to zero, even if relative to a true earth it
is higher.

Secondly the only way for a earth connection to become live is if there
is a fault in either an appliance or the wiring. This should result in
the fuse or circuit breaker opening; however if this is not happening it
suggests that your earth is not correctly connected - another serious
fault.

We can advise how to locate these faults, but unless you have access to
some specialised test gear you may not be able to DIY all the work.
If you want details of how to test these things, then post back here.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Thanks all

I did "call in an electrician" but unfortunately I eventually (5.30
this pm - too bloody late!) found out he was busy, so everything is as
it was!

I tested the taps with a multimeter with one probe on the metal plug
hole and one on the tap and got a result of 225V. I'm sure it is an
earthing problem, but one thing I also did was switch off at my fuse
box and test again with the same result. Does this imply there's also
something up with my upstairs neighbours connections?

I also tested the bathroow basin taps in the same way. They came up
with about 30V.

I'm actually away for the weekend from this evening so I don't have
much time to try anything else, but any advice gratefully received.

Cheers
Warren

has brought this to us :
Hi

This morning I got a huge electrical shock from my bath tap.

Having used a multitester on it, the little led glowed bright red.
However using a multimeter, which seems reliable (tested on a battery)
there is no voltage shown.

Obviously I don't really want to touch the tap again, so are there any
suggestions as to how I can determine if the thing is live? I've done
no work of any kind on the electrics or plumbing, though I do live in
a converted house with a neighbour upstairs.

Thanks
Warren

The most likely possibility is that YOU were live and the bath tap was
properly earthed - though that cannot be proven without the knowledge
and the equipment to confirm it.

You suggested you used a multitester, did you mean a volt stick type
instrument which illuminates when placed near a live cable?

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

wrote:
On 16 Aug, 12:59, John Rumm wrote:
wrote:

This morning I got a huge electrical shock from my bath tap.

Having used a multitester on it, the little led glowed bright red.
However using a multimeter, which seems reliable (tested on a battery)
there is no voltage shown.

Where did you connect the two leads of the meter? One to the tap, but
what about the other one? What range did you have the meter set to?

Obviously I don't really want to touch the tap again, so are there any
suggestions as to how I can determine if the thing is live? I've done
no work of any kind on the electrics or plumbing, though I do live in
a converted house with a neighbour upstairs.

There are two possibilities here - either you got a static shock (these
can seem quite severe in the right circumstances), or you have a
combination of serious electrical faults.

If the latter then this is a serious fault that needs *immediate*
attention. If in any doubt at all, then call an electrician as a matter
of urgency.

Yourbathroomshould have equipotential bonding - i.e. heavy gaugeearthingwires that link all exposed metalwork together (taps, radiators
etc). This should ensure that if a voltage ever does get coupled to
earth it affects all the metalwork at once - thus making it much harder
to get a shock because the voltage difference between any two things you
can touch should be close to zero, even if relative to a true earth it
is higher.

Secondly the only way for a earth connection to become live is if there
is a fault in either an appliance or the wiring. This should result in
the fuse or circuit breaker opening; however if this is not happening it
suggests that your earth is not correctly connected - another serious
fault.

We can advise how to locate these faults, but unless you have access to
some specialised test gear you may not be able to DIY all the work.
If you want details of how to test these things, then post back here.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Thanks all

I did "call in an electrician" but unfortunately I eventually (5.30
this pm - too bloody late!) found out he was busy, so everything is as
it was!

I tested the taps with a multimeter with one probe on the metal plug
hole and one on the tap and got a result of 225V. I'm sure it is an
earthing problem, but one thing I also did was switch off at my fuse
box and test again with the same result. Does this imply there's also
something up with my upstairs neighbours connections?

I also tested the bathroow basin taps in the same way. They came up
with about 30V.

I'm actually away for the weekend from this evening so I don't have
much time to try anything else, but any advice gratefully received.

Cheers
Warren

As said this is a dangerous multiple fault. If youre about to leave
then you can either
- remove fuses one at a time* until the problem goes away. This will
only cure one of the dangerous problems, not both.
- or switch all power off at the fusebox

* Note many fuseboxes will try to fry you if you do this with the main
switch on.


NT

wrote in message
ups.com...
On 16 Aug, 12:59, John Rumm wrote:
wrote:
This morning I got a huge electrical shock from my bath tap.

Having used a multitester on it, the little led glowed bright red.
However using a multimeter, which seems reliable (tested on a battery)
there is no voltage shown.

Where did you connect the two leads of the meter? One to the tap, but
what about the other one? What range did you have the meter set to?

Obviously I don't really want to touch the tap again, so are there any
suggestions as to how I can determine if the thing is live? I've done
no work of any kind on the electrics or plumbing, though I do live in
a converted house with a neighbour upstairs.

There are two possibilities here - either you got a static shock (these
can seem quite severe in the right circumstances), or you have a
combination of serious electrical faults.

If the latter then this is a serious fault that needs *immediate*
attention. If in any doubt at all, then call an electrician as a matter
of urgency.

Yourbathroomshould have equipotential bonding - i.e. heavy
gaugeearthingwires that link all exposed metalwork together (taps,
radiators
etc). This should ensure that if a voltage ever does get coupled to
earth it affects all the metalwork at once - thus making it much harder
to get a shock because the voltage difference between any two things you
can touch should be close to zero, even if relative to a true earth it
is higher.

Secondly the only way for a earth connection to become live is if there
is a fault in either an appliance or the wiring. This should result in
the fuse or circuit breaker opening; however if this is not happening it
suggests that your earth is not correctly connected - another serious
fault.

We can advise how to locate these faults, but unless you have access to
some specialised test gear you may not be able to DIY all the work.
If you want details of how to test these things, then post back here.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Thanks all

I did "call in an electrician" but unfortunately I eventually (5.30
this pm - too bloody late!) found out he was busy, so everything is as
it was!

I tested the taps with a multimeter with one probe on the metal plug
hole and one on the tap and got a result of 225V. I'm sure it is an
earthing problem, but one thing I also did was switch off at my fuse
box and test again with the same result. Does this imply there's also
something up with my upstairs neighbours connections?

I also tested the bathroow basin taps in the same way. They came up
with about 30V.

I'm actually away for the weekend from this evening so I don't have
much time to try anything else, but any advice gratefully received.

Cheers
Warren


In this case it implies there may be something seriously wrong with the
mains supply, call your neigbour and also the local electricity company..

wrote:

I tested the taps with a multimeter with one probe on the metal plug
hole and one on the tap and got a result of 225V. I'm sure it is an

Firstly, what kind of multimeter - analogue or digital? Sometimes the
digital ones are so sensitive they they can detect voltages that are not
really there (well they are there, but they are inductively or
capacitively coupled from something else and hence unable to provide
anything other than a tiny current).

Secondly what is the metal plug hole connected to? In many sinks it will
connect to a plastic pipe.

earthing problem, but one thing I also did was switch off at my fuse
box and test again with the same result. Does this imply there's also
something up with my upstairs neighbours connections?

Where you touching either the tap or plug hole at the time of your test?

I also tested the bathroow basin taps in the same way. They came up
with about 30V.

Again, what sort of piping can you see connected to the waste and the
taps? Can you see any earth clamps and yellow/green wires anywhere under
the sink in the bathroom?



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
wrote:

I tested the taps with a multimeter with one probe on the metal plug
hole and one on the tap and got a result of 225V. I'm sure it is an

Firstly, what kind of multimeter - analogue or digital? Sometimes the
digital ones are so sensitive they they can detect voltages that are not
really there (well they are there, but they are inductively or
capacitively coupled from something else and hence unable to provide
anything other than a tiny current).

Secondly what is the metal plug hole connected to? In many sinks it will
connect to a plastic pipe.

earthing problem, but one thing I also did was switch off at my fuse
box and test again with the same result. Does this imply there's also
something up with my upstairs neighbours connections?

Where you touching either the tap or plug hole at the time of your test?

I also tested the bathroow basin taps in the same way. They came up
with about 30V.

Again, what sort of piping can you see connected to the waste and the
taps? Can you see any earth clamps and yellow/green wires anywhere under
the sink in the bathroom?



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/


Just a thought has the OP got an electric shower plumbed in off the water
supply to the bath?

In article . com,
wrote:
I tested the taps with a multimeter with one probe on the metal plug
hole and one on the tap and got a result of 225V. I'm sure it is an
earthing problem, but one thing I also did was switch off at my fuse
box and test again with the same result. Does this imply there's also
something up with my upstairs neighbours connections?

Do you mean the 'plug hole' on the bath? That would normally be connected
to a plastic waste pipe so no direct reference to earth. Is the bath
plastic or metal?

However, you have a serious problem. Your safety earth should work
independently of anything a neighbour might to to theirs. I'd be inclined
to call in the supply board as an emergency if you are still getting this
problem with the main switch off.

--


Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Thanks again to all the responses.

Just had the electrician in and he did a ZE test on the main board and
found there's reverse polarity from the mains. So now I have to wait
up to 24 hours for the "emergency" response from EDF! He also advised
that there might be a need for a rewire as the wiring was very old. Oh
dear...

wrote:

Thanks again to all the responses.

Just had the electrician in and he did a ZE test on the main board and
found there's reverse polarity from the mains. So now I have to wait
up to 24 hours for the "emergency" response from EDF! He also advised
that there might be a need for a rewire as the wiring was very old. Oh
dear...

old enough to be rubber? If not, I would not be convinced about
a rewire without some real evidence that rewire was the best
option.

Mains supply polarity reverse is not whats causing your situation
(and is not an emergency). Did he tell you what is causing the
shocks?


NT

On 16 Aug, 12:59, John Rumm wrote:

Your bathroom should have equipotential bonding - i.e. heavy gauge
earthing wires that link all exposed metalwork together (taps, radiators
etc). This should ensure that if a voltage ever does get coupled to
earth it affects all the metalwork at once - thus making it much harder
to get a shock because the voltage difference between any two things you
can touch should be close to zero, even if relative to a true earth it
is higher.

Just as a side note to this post, I've just had a nice shiny
decorative towel rail / radiator fitted to a new shower room, and the
sparky came around later and added a really ugly earth cable to the
radiator. Now, I appreciate that this is necessary, but is there a
discrete and neat way to do this that doesn't have a dangly yellow and
green cable coming from my nice shiny radiator (mounted on the wall at
waist height)?

Matt

In article .com,
wrote:
Just had the electrician in and he did a ZE test on the main board and
found there's reverse polarity from the mains.

You'd need to explain that. Incoming? Very unlikely. From meter to your CU
- surely he should have sorted this there and then. But it doesn't account
for your problem.

So now I have to wait up to 24 hours for the "emergency" response from
EDF! He also advised that there might be a need for a rewire as the
wiring was very old. Oh dear...

It's usually obvious if the wiring is old - it will be rubber or lead
covered.

--
*Why do they put Braille on the drive-through bank machines?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:09:12 -0000 someone who may be
wrote this:-

Just as a side note to this post, I've just had a nice shiny
decorative towel rail / radiator fitted to a new shower room,

Does it have an electric element fitted inside?

and the
sparky came around later and added a really ugly earth cable to the
radiator. Now, I appreciate that this is necessary,

Whether it is necessary or not depends on the circumstances. As well
as the presence of an electric element it also depends on any
pipework connected to the rail.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article . com,
wrote:
Just as a side note to this post, I've just had a nice shiny
decorative towel rail / radiator fitted to a new shower room, and the
sparky came around later and added a really ugly earth cable to the
radiator. Now, I appreciate that this is necessary, but is there a
discrete and neat way to do this that doesn't have a dangly yellow and
green cable coming from my nice shiny radiator (mounted on the wall at
waist height)?

IIRC, the latest wiring regs (17th edition, not yet in force?) remove the
need for equipotential bonding in this sort of circumstance - provided the
house wiring complies in other ways.

--
*You can't have everything, where would you put it?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

According to EDF, something to do with the way upstairs flat is wired
had caused my circuit to have reverse polarity. Upstairs has now been
disconnected and my polarity is back to normal.

As reverse polarity was the culprit, should it still have caused such
a problem if the bathroom was properly earthed? As you might have
guessed, I know precious little about electricity!

Thanks
Warren

On 21 Aug, 14:31, David Hansen
wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:09:12 -0000 someone who may be
wrote this:-

Just as a side note to this post, I've just had a nice shiny
decorative towel rail / radiator fitted to a new shower room,

Does it have an electric element fitted inside?

and the
sparky came around later and added a really ugly earth cable to the
radiator. Now, I appreciate that this is necessary,

Whether it is necessary or not depends on the circumstances. As well
as the presence of an electric element it also depends on any
pipework connected to the rail.


No, its a central heating radiator, just nice and shiny. I suppose a
neater way would be to connect the earth behind the plasterboard
instead.

Matt

Do you have your own electricity meter and pay bills directly to the
electricity company?

Or are you on a landlord's sub-meter and pay the bills to him?

I think I can see a couple of ways it could be done - but it requires
being having a deranged disregard for safety and/or illegally
interfering with the suppliers equipment.

wrote in message
ups.com...
According to EDF, something to do with the way upstairs flat is wired
had caused my circuit to have reverse polarity. Upstairs has now been
disconnected and my polarity is back to normal.

As reverse polarity was the culprit, should it still have caused such
a problem if the bathroom was properly earthed? As you might have
guessed, I know precious little about electricity!

I'd like to have seen what tests the electrician actually did, cos I'm a bit
sceptical. If your earth got live then N-E would look like reverse
polarity. Read my earlier post again and think about getting another
electrician. Specifically ask for your main and supplementary bonding to be
checked.

Jim A

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:32:07 -0000 someone who may be
wrote this:-

No, its a central heating radiator, just nice and shiny.

Are the central heating pipes that connect to it plastic, or copper?
What sort of pipe is under the floor?


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 21 Aug, 16:41, "Jim Alexander" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com... According to EDF, something to do with the way upstairs flat is wired
had caused my circuit to have reverse polarity. Upstairs has now been
disconnected and my polarity is back to normal.

As reverse polarity was the culprit, should it still have caused such
a problem if the bathroom was properly earthed? As you might have
guessed, I know precious little about electricity!

I'd like to have seen what tests the electrician actually did, cos I'm a bit
sceptical. If your earth got live then N-E would look like reverse
polarity. Read my earlier post again and think about getting another
electrician. Specifically ask for your main and supplementary bonding to be
checked.

Jim A

Hi Jim

Actually an independent electrician and the one from EDF Energy (our
electricity board) told me it was reverse polarity (checked at the
consumer unit) - they also tested at sockets. Neither of them could
believe it at first, but they checked & re-checked several times. EDF
disconnecting the upstairs supply (taking out the cartridge from their
main fuse) has fixed the problem for me. There was some "DIY" cabling
from the upstairs pre-pay meter through trunking to their flat that
appeared to be the cause. Right now I'm happy to be able to approach
the bathroom, even though I'm doing it with a voltmeter and multi-
tester in hand for the time being!

Cheers
Warren

wrote:
On 21 Aug, 16:41, "Jim Alexander" wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

According to EDF, something to do with the way upstairs flat is wired
had caused my circuit to have reverse polarity. Upstairs has now been
disconnected and my polarity is back to normal.

As reverse polarity was the culprit, should it still have caused such
a problem if the bathroom was properly earthed? As you might have
guessed, I know precious little about electricity!

I'd like to have seen what tests the electrician actually did, cos I'm a bit
sceptical. If your earth got live then N-E would look like reverse
polarity. Read my earlier post again and think about getting another
electrician. Specifically ask for your main and supplementary bonding to be
checked.

Jim A

Hi Jim

Actually an independent electrician and the one from EDF Energy (our
electricity board) told me it was reverse polarity (checked at the
consumer unit) - they also tested at sockets. Neither of them could
believe it at first, but they checked & re-checked several times. EDF
disconnecting the upstairs supply (taking out the cartridge from their
main fuse) has fixed the problem for me. There was some "DIY" cabling
from the upstairs pre-pay meter through trunking to their flat that
appeared to be the cause. Right now I'm happy to be able to approach
the bathroom, even though I'm doing it with a voltmeter and multi-
tester in hand for the time being!

Cheers
Warren

I cant think of any way that de-energising another supply could
solve your problem. Sure it may stop the tap being live, but certainly
wont make it safe.

The information we're getting back does sound muddled.


NT

wrote:

Just as a side note to this post, I've just had a nice shiny
decorative towel rail / radiator fitted to a new shower room, and the
sparky came around later and added a really ugly earth cable to the
radiator. Now, I appreciate that this is necessary, but is there a
discrete and neat way to do this that doesn't have a dangly yellow and
green cable coming from my nice shiny radiator (mounted on the wall at
waist height)?

Matt

Of course. One option is a radiator clamp fitted so that nearly all of
it is behind the rad, with just the edge of the clip on the front.
Another is to bond to the pipe leading to the rad, but thats only
doable depending on the type of pipe and connection.

AFAIK there is no requirement to retrofit equi bathroom bonding
anyhow, but its a simple approach to your problem.


NT

wrote:

Just had the electrician in and he did a ZE test on the main board and
found there's reverse polarity from the mains. So now I have to wait

Oh, depending on the type of earthing system you have that could
certainly cause problems... (If you have what they call PME, then it
means all the equipotential bonded or earthed metalwork in the house
would have been tied to mains voltage!).

up to 24 hours for the "emergency" response from EDF! He also advised
that there might be a need for a rewire as the wiring was very old. Oh
dear...

There are various issues with "old" wiring that can suggest rewires -
just being old in itself is not necessarily a primary cause. If the
cable is old rubber insulated stuff, then that is usually terminal by
now - the insulation will start to crumble and breakdown. The other
issue is that older wiring will often not be that appropriate for modern
usage patterns - typically far too few sockets etc where you need them.
You may also lack many of the safety features that a modern install
would have (and would potentially have alerted you to the problem you
experienced sooner).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:

Just as a side note to this post, I've just had a nice shiny
decorative towel rail / radiator fitted to a new shower room, and the
sparky came around later and added a really ugly earth cable to the
radiator. Now, I appreciate that this is necessary, but is there a
discrete and neat way to do this that doesn't have a dangly yellow and
green cable coming from my nice shiny radiator (mounted on the wall at
waist height)?

The neater way is to bond the pipes in and out (assuming they are
conductive) under the floor or in some other non visible place. There is
no requirement for the rad itself to have an earth clamp on it. The EQ
bonding can even be in an adjacent room if that makes more sense for the
pipe layout.

If you have a dual fuel one (i.e. one with an electric element as well
as the CH pipes) then having the earth wire on the electric element
correctly connected to both the circuit earth and also the equipotential
zone in the bathroom would also remove the need for separate bonding.

--
Cheers,

John.

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Jim Alexander wrote:

I'd like to have seen what tests the electrician actually did, cos I'm a bit
sceptical. If your earth got live then N-E would look like reverse
polarity.

Depends on the earthing system.

Perhaps the OP could read:

http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/electrical/....html#earthing

and tell us what he has.



--
Cheers,

John.

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In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Just had the electrician in and he did a ZE test on the main board and
found there's reverse polarity from the mains. So now I have to wait

Oh, depending on the type of earthing system you have that could
certainly cause problems... (If you have what they call PME, then it
means all the equipotential bonded or earthed metalwork in the house
would have been tied to mains voltage!).

But surely PME terminals are only fitted by the 'leccy board and even they
wouldn't make such a basic mistake? Also pretty well any house will have
some form of local 'earth' too - so a PME wrong connection would cause
current to flow at all times if not worse?

--
*If all is not lost, where the hell is it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Jim Alexander wrote:

I'd like to have seen what tests the electrician actually did, cos I'm a
bit sceptical. If your earth got live then N-E would look like reverse
polarity.

Depends on the earthing system.

Perhaps, but that's not my point as there is at least a suspicion of dodgy
earthing. Read my words again carefully.

The OP takes comfort from the diagnosis of L-N reversal but his description
is not a supplier L-N reversal because it seemingly was cured (only) by
disconnecting the adjacent flat and a premises L-N wiring reversal would not
cause the taps to become live in the absence of a second fault somewhere.


Perhaps the OP could read:

http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/electrical/....html#earthing

and tell us what he has.

I would have hoped that one of the two qualified? electricians would have
helped the OP there. I have no idea whether my theory is right or not but
it fits the circumstances.

Jim A

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Oh, depending on the type of earthing system you have that could
certainly cause problems... (If you have what they call PME, then it
means all the equipotential bonded or earthed metalwork in the house
would have been tied to mains voltage!).

But surely PME terminals are only fitted by the 'leccy board and even they
wouldn't make such a basic mistake? Also pretty well any house will have

Can happen. I have sees head ends wired with reversed colours (although
correct polarity) enough times.

some form of local 'earth' too - so a PME wrong connection would cause
current to flow at all times if not worse?

It may not - properties with incoming plastic services and no RCD could
exist in that state for some time. If the impedance of the connection to
true local earth is high then you would not pass sufficient current to
trip ordinary (i.e. non RCD) protective devices.


--
Cheers,

John.

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Jim Alexander wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Jim Alexander wrote:

I'd like to have seen what tests the electrician actually did, cos I'm a
bit sceptical. If your earth got live then N-E would look like reverse
polarity.
Depends on the earthing system.

Perhaps, but that's not my point as there is at least a suspicion of dodgy
earthing. Read my words again carefully.

My reading comprehension is not usually too bad on the first pass
thanks! ;-)

Many things are possible here, and we will probably never know exactly
what was wrong. Dodgy earthing somewhere is indeed a possibility. I was
just highlighting one way in which apparently live metalwork could come
about, since there were a number of posts (not yours) that seemed a
little too confident in proclaiming that the supply reversal would not
explain the problem.


--
Cheers,

John.

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