I've replaced some radiator valves with TRVs and I've got a problem with
water seeping out of the joint between the valve and the tail on one
radiator. I've tried tightening up the joint to the point where it doesn't
seem to want to go any further and I'm a bit reluctant to apply any more
force in case I strip the thread.

The original valves and the TRVs both had tails with 1/2 inch compression
fittings so I thought I'd keep things simple by reusing the existing tails
and avoid the possibility of introducing leaks round the threads of the
tails if I replaced them. Perhaps this was a bad move and I was tempting
fate by re-using the old olives already stuck on the tails.

My choices now seem to be:

1) Try to tighten even further at the risk of overdoing something.

2) Strip it down again and replace the tail. If I do this then how much PTFE
tape do I need to use and how tight does the tail have to be screwed in?

3) Strip down, leave the tail in place, carefully remove the old olive with
a junior hacksaw and use a new olive.

Any suggestions on the best approach?

--
Mike Clarke

Mike Clarke wrote:
I've replaced some radiator valves with TRVs and I've got a problem
with water seeping out of the joint between the valve and the tail on
one radiator. I've tried tightening up the joint to the point where
it doesn't seem to want to go any further and I'm a bit reluctant to
apply any more force in case I strip the thread.

The original valves and the TRVs both had tails with 1/2 inch
compression fittings so I thought I'd keep things simple by reusing
the existing tails and avoid the possibility of introducing leaks
round the threads of the tails if I replaced them. Perhaps this was a
bad move and I was tempting fate by re-using the old olives already
stuck on the tails.

My choices now seem to be:

1) Try to tighten even further at the risk of overdoing something.

2) Strip it down again and replace the tail. If I do this then how
much PTFE tape do I need to use and how tight does the tail have to
be screwed in?

3) Strip down, leave the tail in place, carefully remove the old
olive with a junior hacksaw and use a new olive.

Any suggestions on the best approach?

Try running a leak sealer through the system.
http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/440102


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
Mike Clarke wrote:
I've replaced some radiator valves with TRVs and I've got a problem
with water seeping out of the joint between the valve and the tail on
one radiator. I've tried tightening up the joint to the point where
it doesn't seem to want to go any further and I'm a bit reluctant to
apply any more force in case I strip the thread.

The original valves and the TRVs both had tails with 1/2 inch
compression fittings so I thought I'd keep things simple by reusing
the existing tails and avoid the possibility of introducing leaks
round the threads of the tails if I replaced them. Perhaps this was a
bad move and I was tempting fate by re-using the old olives already
stuck on the tails.

My choices now seem to be:

1) Try to tighten even further at the risk of overdoing something.

2) Strip it down again and replace the tail. If I do this then how
much PTFE tape do I need to use and how tight does the tail have to
be screwed in?

3) Strip down, leave the tail in place, carefully remove the old
olive with a junior hacksaw and use a new olive.

Any suggestions on the best approach?

Try running a leak sealer through the system.
http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/440102


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

What a cowboy! Try fitting the TRV properly using a new olive, don't use
all the old crappy stuff. Don't forget your PTFE tape!

david ryan wrote:

The original valves and the TRVs both had tails with 1/2 inch
compression fittings so I thought I'd keep things simple by reusing
the existing tails and avoid the possibility of introducing leaks
round the threads of the tails if I replaced them. Perhaps this was a
bad move and I was tempting fate by re-using the old olives already
stuck on the tails.

My choices now seem to be:

1) Try to tighten even further at the risk of overdoing something.

2) Strip it down again and replace the tail. If I do this then how
much PTFE tape do I need to use and how tight does the tail have to
be screwed in?

3) Strip down, leave the tail in place, carefully remove the old
olive with a junior hacksaw and use a new olive.

Any suggestions on the best approach?
Try running a leak sealer through the system.
http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/440102


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

What a cowboy! Try fitting the TRV properly using a new olive, don't use
all the old crappy stuff. Don't forget your PTFE tape!

It sounds rather like he has replaced the whole valve but not the stub
that screws into the rad (which is where you would need the PTFE).

Assuming this is the case, then replacing the olive may well fix your
problem. One thing to note is the amount of pipe that slides into a
compression fitting (and hence the position of the olive) is not
standard. So you can find times where you are unable to get a seal with
a new fitting and old olive simply because it is too far from the end of
the pipe and this prevents it seating in the right place.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

david ryan wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
Mike Clarke wrote:
I've replaced some radiator valves with TRVs and I've got a problem
with water seeping out of the joint between the valve and the tail
on one radiator. I've tried tightening up the joint to the point
where it doesn't seem to want to go any further and I'm a bit
reluctant to apply any more force in case I strip the thread.

The original valves and the TRVs both had tails with 1/2 inch
compression fittings so I thought I'd keep things simple by reusing
the existing tails and avoid the possibility of introducing leaks
round the threads of the tails if I replaced them. Perhaps this was
a bad move and I was tempting fate by re-using the old olives
already stuck on the tails.

My choices now seem to be:

1) Try to tighten even further at the risk of overdoing something.

2) Strip it down again and replace the tail. If I do this then how
much PTFE tape do I need to use and how tight does the tail have to
be screwed in?

3) Strip down, leave the tail in place, carefully remove the old
olive with a junior hacksaw and use a new olive.

Any suggestions on the best approach?

Try running a leak sealer through the system.
http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/440102


What a cowboy! Try fitting the TRV properly using a new olive, don't
use all the old crappy stuff. Don't forget your PTFE tape!

Doh! PTFE tape on a fitting that seals via the olive not the thread?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

Assuming the length of the tail doesn't stop the olive seating I'd
recommend just a smear of boss white on the olive if it is to be
reused.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:16:11 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
mused:

david ryan wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
Mike Clarke wrote:
I've replaced some radiator valves with TRVs and I've got a problem
with water seeping out of the joint between the valve and the tail
on one radiator. I've tried tightening up the joint to the point
where it doesn't seem to want to go any further and I'm a bit
reluctant to apply any more force in case I strip the thread.

The original valves and the TRVs both had tails with 1/2 inch
compression fittings so I thought I'd keep things simple by reusing
the existing tails and avoid the possibility of introducing leaks
round the threads of the tails if I replaced them. Perhaps this was
a bad move and I was tempting fate by re-using the old olives
already stuck on the tails.

My choices now seem to be:

1) Try to tighten even further at the risk of overdoing something.

2) Strip it down again and replace the tail. If I do this then how
much PTFE tape do I need to use and how tight does the tail have to
be screwed in?

3) Strip down, leave the tail in place, carefully remove the old
olive with a junior hacksaw and use a new olive.

Any suggestions on the best approach?

Try running a leak sealer through the system.
http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/440102


What a cowboy! Try fitting the TRV properly using a new olive, don't
use all the old crappy stuff. Don't forget your PTFE tape!

Doh! PTFE tape on a fitting that seals via the olive not the thread?

Where would you put the PTFE then? Not on the thread surely, as this
would be insanity, as you pointed out.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

Lurch wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:16:11 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
mused:

david ryan wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
Mike Clarke wrote:
I've replaced some radiator valves with TRVs and I've got a
problem with water seeping out of the joint between the valve and
the tail on one radiator. I've tried tightening up the joint to
the point where it doesn't seem to want to go any further and I'm
a bit reluctant to apply any more force in case I strip the
thread.

The original valves and the TRVs both had tails with 1/2 inch
compression fittings so I thought I'd keep things simple by
reusing the existing tails and avoid the possibility of
introducing leaks round the threads of the tails if I replaced
them. Perhaps this was a bad move and I was tempting fate by
re-using the old olives already stuck on the tails.

My choices now seem to be:

1) Try to tighten even further at the risk of overdoing something.

2) Strip it down again and replace the tail. If I do this then how
much PTFE tape do I need to use and how tight does the tail have
to be screwed in?

3) Strip down, leave the tail in place, carefully remove the old
olive with a junior hacksaw and use a new olive.

Any suggestions on the best approach?

Try running a leak sealer through the system.
http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/440102


What a cowboy! Try fitting the TRV properly using a new olive,
don't use all the old crappy stuff. Don't forget your PTFE tape!

Doh! PTFE tape on a fitting that seals via the olive not the thread?

Where would you put the PTFE then? Not on the thread surely, as this
would be insanity, as you pointed out.

puts hands in air

My mistake, I thought you were suggesting PTFE on the compression fitting
thread.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

John Rumm wrote:

It sounds rather like he has replaced the whole valve but not the stub
that screws into the rad (which is where you would need the PTFE).

Yes, I left the original tail in place with the existing olive. If I'd
replaced the tail then it would have needed tape round the thread that fits
into the radiator but as I understand it there's little point in putting
PTFE tape on an olive and it might even be a bad thing.

Assuming this is the case, then replacing the olive may well fix your
problem. One thing to note is the amount of pipe that slides into a
compression fitting (and hence the position of the olive) is not
standard. So you can find times where you are unable to get a seal with
a new fitting and old olive simply because it is too far from the end of
the pipe and this prevents it seating in the right place.

Yes, that turned out to be the problem. I took the whole radiator off the
wall for a closer look and the new valve was just not quite contacting the
olive. Then I realised I couldn't use the hacksaw and screwdriver trick to
remove the olive because access was restricted by the nut but a few hammer
blows on a large spanner behind the nut pushed the olive off. Reassembly
with the nut and olive that came with the TRV cured things. Thanks for the
advice.

--
Mike Clarke

Mike Clarke wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

It sounds rather like he has replaced the whole valve but not the stub
that screws into the rad (which is where you would need the PTFE).

Yes, I left the original tail in place with the existing olive. If I'd
replaced the tail then it would have needed tape round the thread that fits
into the radiator but as I understand it there's little point in putting
PTFE tape on an olive and it might even be a bad thing.

That's right. The only "improper" use of PTFE I find useful sometimes is
on the thread of a some compression fittings purely to act as a lubricant.

Assuming this is the case, then replacing the olive may well fix your
problem. One thing to note is the amount of pipe that slides into a
compression fitting (and hence the position of the olive) is not
standard. So you can find times where you are unable to get a seal with
a new fitting and old olive simply because it is too far from the end of
the pipe and this prevents it seating in the right place.

Yes, that turned out to be the problem. I took the whole radiator off the
wall for a closer look and the new valve was just not quite contacting the
olive. Then I realised I couldn't use the hacksaw and screwdriver trick to
remove the olive because access was restricted by the nut but a few hammer
blows on a large spanner behind the nut pushed the olive off. Reassembly
with the nut and olive that came with the TRV cured things. Thanks for the
advice.

The other solution that can sometimes work in this case is to just
hacksaw the very end of the pipe off, shortening the distance between
the end of the pipe and the olive. (obviously there needs to be enough
give in the tail to enable it to pull into position, a little higher
than before)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

That's right. The only "improper" use of PTFE I find useful sometimes
is on the thread of a some compression fittings purely to act as a
lubricant.

Indeedy. Some can be a trifle 'sticky' to do up.

Glad its not just me :-)



--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

The Medway Handyman wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

That's right. The only "improper" use of PTFE I find useful sometimes
is on the thread of a some compression fittings purely to act as a
lubricant.

Indeedy. Some can be a trifle 'sticky' to do up.

And squeaky!

Glad its not just me :-)

Saves you smelling like Boss White for three days after as well! (which
also cause premature failure of latex gloves - which I tend to use if
doing much plumbing to keep the grime off the mits)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 2007-08-17 02:12:18 +0100, John Rumm said:

The Medway Handyman wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

That's right. The only "improper" use of PTFE I find useful sometimes
is on the thread of a some compression fittings purely to act as a
lubricant.

Indeedy. Some can be a trifle 'sticky' to do up.

And squeaky!

Glad its not just me :-)

Saves you smelling like Boss White for three days after as well! (which
also cause premature failure of latex gloves - which I tend to use if
doing much plumbing to keep the grime off the mits)

Wonderful stuff, Boss White. Everyone doing DIY plumbing should put a
smear behind each ear to demonstrate that they are a Real Man (tm).

In article ,
Mike Clarke wrote:
My choices now seem to be:

1) Try to tighten even further at the risk of overdoing something.

A compression fitting shouldn't need excessive force.

2) Strip it down again and replace the tail. If I do this then how much
PTFE tape do I need to use and how tight does the tail have to be
screwed in?

This is the bit twixt valve and rad? Just run a couple of layers of PTFE
round it and set it to the same distance as the old.

3) Strip down, leave the tail in place, carefully remove the old olive
with a junior hacksaw and use a new olive.

On all the 'tails' I've seen the olive is part of the tail - not separate
as on a pipe. However not all tails have the same profile olive so I'd
always use the new supplied one - unless simply replacing the same make
valve.

Any suggestions on the best approach?

Fernox LS-X is a truly excellent product for sealing leaks - but really
shouldn't be needed on something as simple as this.

--
*Never miss a good chance to shut up *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.