Hi

I have a Potterton 1993 'fanned balanced flue gas fired' boiler with a
hot water tank upstairs. There is a little tank in teh loft to pour
inhibitor into.

I asked a local plumber to install thermostats on two upstairs
radiators, replace another upstairs radiator and put a combined shower
and mixer tap unit on the bath.

When he came to do the work he said he couldnt work out how to drain
the system so couldnt do the radiator thermostats.
He replaced the old radiator with a slightly narrower radiator. To
get both ends to meet on the narrower radiator he fitted 3 brass
'hexagonal with a screw thread at one side' connectors in a row
between the right hand pipe and radiator.

He managed to fit the shower/tap mixer on teh bath and put an 'on/off'
valve on both the hot and cold pipes without draining the system.

That was over a month ago.

As of today both sides of the new radiator leak slightly. I have to
keep a teatowel wrapped around both ends.
The mixer taps dont leak, but the adjacent bath plug pipe (which ends
in a little ubend) now leaks onto the ceiling below when a bath
empties. The plug pipe end screws into the little ubend and I think
water is coming from there. A bowl is now resting on the ceiling
below to catch teh dripping water.

Could you give me some advice.

1. Is it ok to use 3 brass connectors in a row - will this be prone
to leaking? Should he have moved teh vertical pipe that the radiator
connects to instead? Could he have done this without draining hte
system?

2. SHould the plug pipe have silicon around the screw end to stop
water leaking or should it be water tight by itself. It didnt leak
for the last 20 years, but started the day after the plumber had been.

3. Is it possible to fit radiator thermostats without draining hte
system?

I am trying to get this plumber to come back and mend the leaks. After
more than a month of trying I have had no success. What should the
next course of action be - trading standards?

Thanks for your help

Bramble wrote:
Hi

I have a Potterton 1993 'fanned balanced flue gas fired' boiler with a
hot water tank upstairs. There is a little tank in teh loft to pour
inhibitor into.

I asked a local plumber to install thermostats on two upstairs
radiators, replace another upstairs radiator and put a combined shower
and mixer tap unit on the bath.

When he came to do the work he said he couldnt work out how to drain
the system so couldnt do the radiator thermostats.
He replaced the old radiator with a slightly narrower radiator. To
get both ends to meet on the narrower radiator he fitted 3 brass
'hexagonal with a screw thread at one side' connectors in a row
between the right hand pipe and radiator.

He managed to fit the shower/tap mixer on teh bath and put an 'on/off'
valve on both the hot and cold pipes without draining the system.

That was over a month ago.

As of today both sides of the new radiator leak slightly. I have to
keep a teatowel wrapped around both ends.
The mixer taps dont leak, but the adjacent bath plug pipe (which ends
in a little ubend) now leaks onto the ceiling below when a bath
empties. The plug pipe end screws into the little ubend and I think
water is coming from there. A bowl is now resting on the ceiling
below to catch teh dripping water.

Could you give me some advice.

1. Is it ok to use 3 brass connectors in a row - will this be prone
to leaking? Should he have moved teh vertical pipe that the radiator
connects to instead? Could he have done this without draining hte
system?

2. SHould the plug pipe have silicon around the screw end to stop
water leaking or should it be water tight by itself. It didnt leak
for the last 20 years, but started the day after the plumber had been.

3. Is it possible to fit radiator thermostats without draining hte
system?

I am trying to get this plumber to come back and mend the leaks. After
more than a month of trying I have had no success. What should the
next course of action be - trading standards?

Thanks for your help

Was he registred with any affiliated bodies ie *fair trades*
That would be my first port of call.

ps how did manage to get a bowl to rest on the ceiling. ;-)

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

"Bramble" wrote

To
get both ends to meet on the narrower radiator he fitted 3 brass
'hexagonal with a screw thread at one side' connectors in a row
between the right hand pipe and radiator.


All sounds like shoddy work!
There are spacers available to make up the difference in length between old
and new "standard" radiator lengths.
Available in increments of 10mm - I have used these in the past.
Not as neat as re-piping of course, but made for the job and a fair
compromise.

Was this guy recommended?

Phil

Bramble wrote:

When he came to do the work he said he couldnt work out how to drain
the system so couldnt do the radiator thermostats.

Bit of a cop out since he could have added a self cutting tap to a
suitable pipe to provide a drain point.

Could you give me some advice.

1. Is it ok to use 3 brass connectors in a row - will this be prone

It may look a little clunky, but it is OK in the sense it ought to work.

to leaking? Should he have moved teh vertical pipe that the radiator
connects to instead?

Ideally

Could he have done this without draining hte
system?

Not easily. It is possible to work on a live system in some limited
circumstances, but it is a pain to do and tends to make a fair amount of
mess.

2. SHould the plug pipe have silicon around the screw end to stop
water leaking or should it be water tight by itself. It didnt leak
for the last 20 years, but started the day after the plumber had been.

It should be ok by itself. It may just want tightening a bit. Chances
are it got moved slightly when the work was being done.

3. Is it possible to fit radiator thermostats without draining hte
system?

Again, it can be done (I have done it) but it is not the sort of thing
that you do out of choice usually. It may not even be possible at all if
the thermostatic valves require a different pipe spacing from the
original ones. Then you need pipework changes again which really require
a drain down.

I am trying to get this plumber to come back and mend the leaks. After
more than a month of trying I have had no success. What should the
next course of action be - trading standards?

Write a letter to the plumber explaining why you are not happy and
stating that if he does not fix it within the next n days (where n is
a "reasonable" time - say three weeks), then you will employ another
plumber to rectify his faulty work and seek to recover the costs from him.

--
Cheers,

John.

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On Sun, 28 May 2006 10:53:31 +0000, Bramble wrote:

Hi

I have a Potterton 1993 'fanned balanced flue gas fired' boiler with a
hot water tank upstairs. There is a little tank in teh loft to pour
inhibitor into.

I asked a local plumber to install thermostats on two upstairs
radiators, replace another upstairs radiator and put a combined shower
and mixer tap unit on the bath.

When he came to do the work he said he couldnt work out how to drain
the system so couldnt do the radiator thermostats.

There are ways and means to get started here. Adds a little time but
either it shows inexperience, he really didn't want the job or had reason
to not want to ask for extra for the extra work.

He replaced the old radiator with a slightly narrower radiator. To
get both ends to meet on the narrower radiator he fitted 3 brass
'hexagonal with a screw thread at one side' connectors in a row
between the right hand pipe and radiator.

If he had solved (1) then these shenanigans would not have been necessary
because he might have been able to modify the pipework. There are also
sliding couplings to solve this. Since smaller (1200mm) come in 100mm
increments and the bigger ones in 200mm increments there is usually no
call for one than around 2 x 30mm couplings.

He could also have used chromed fittings and a short length of stainless
or chromed pipe.


He managed to fit the shower/tap mixer on teh bath and put an 'on/off'
valve on both the hot and cold pipes without draining the system.

That's because they are nothing to do with the heating system (other than
the boiler heats the HW indirectly).


That was over a month ago.

As of today both sides of the new radiator leak slightly. I have to
keep a teatowel wrapped around both ends.

Quite unacceptable, none of us is perfect we all make mistakes (hopefully
none too big), not to come back and fix things apologetically is
unacceptable. The fact that it did it at both ends, at least, suggests a
systematic error.


The mixer taps dont leak, but the adjacent bath plug pipe (which ends
in a little ubend) now leaks onto the ceiling below when a bath
empties. The plug pipe end screws into the little ubend and I think
water is coming from there. A bowl is now resting on the ceiling
below to catch teh dripping water.

I'm not sure to what you are referring exactly. Sounds like the bath waste
is leaking - which could easily have been disturbed during the works.

Could you give me some advice.

1. Is it ok to use 3 brass connectors in a row - will this be prone
to leaking? Should he have moved teh vertical pipe that the radiator
connects to instead? Could he have done this without draining hte
system?

1. It's functional but not what you wanted. The less joints the better but
no reason that they will leak anymore than any other correctly made
joint....Um.
Almost certainly.
Only with difficulty.




2. SHould the plug pipe have silicon around the screw end to stop
water leaking or should it be water tight by itself. It didnt leak
for the last 20 years, but started the day after the plumber had been.

I think you mayt mean the bath waste. They do not need silicone to work
correctly. Old stuff once leaking can be very difficult to repair -
replace is often the easier route, compared with someone's time the cost
of the fittings are trivial.


3. Is it possible to fit radiator thermostats without draining hte
system?

Yes, but if there are more than one or two it is often easier and simpler
and less of an accident in waiting to drain the system.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards