Hi all,

I keep rabbits in an 8x6 shed. This is currently insulated with 2"
expanded polystyrene. Although this helps, it still gets very hot
inside during the summer months.

I am planning on buying a cheapy portable air con unit to bring the
temp down, but the problem is that these are very noisy (or so I've
heard), so I don't really want to stick it in the shed with the buns.

I have a double garage about 4 meters away from the shed, and had the
crazy notion of siting the air con unit in there, and piping the
cool / hot air to / from the shed via some kind of submerged pipe.

Am I nuts? Would I need a minimum diameter pipe? (Would drain pipe be
ok for instance?) Whats the best / cheapest way of insulating the
pipe? Would is be ok attaching such piping the air con unit of will it
cause problems?

Many thanks for any suggestions,
Lister

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 09:40:34 -0700 someone who may be lister
wrote this:-

I keep rabbits in an 8x6 shed. This is currently insulated with 2"
expanded polystyrene. Although this helps, it still gets very hot
inside during the summer months.

Decide which parts of the shed get the sun, generally the roof and a
wall or two. Put a flat wall/roof over this with a ventilated air
gap between. Paint the new wall/roof white.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"lister" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,

I keep rabbits in an 8x6 shed. This is currently insulated with 2"
expanded polystyrene. Although this helps, it still gets very hot
inside during the summer months.

I am planning on buying a cheapy portable air con unit to bring the
temp down, but the problem is that these are very noisy (or so I've
heard), so I don't really want to stick it in the shed with the buns.

I have a double garage about 4 meters away from the shed, and had the
crazy notion of siting the air con unit in there, and piping the
cool / hot air to / from the shed via some kind of submerged pipe.

Am I nuts? Would I need a minimum diameter pipe? (Would drain pipe be
ok for instance?) Whats the best / cheapest way of insulating the
pipe? Would is be ok attaching such piping the air con unit of will it
cause problems?

Many thanks for any suggestions,
Lister


Good idea, but why not try something different. Put a few large fans in the
roof of the shed with a covering to stop the rabbits injuring themselves.
Set the fans to suck air from the hutch and blow it out. This will drag
cool air in and take the warm air out. Cover the tops of the fans to stop
the rain getting in, perhaps a piece of wood a few inches above. Try a few
kitchen/bathroom type fans in the top of the walls. They can shift a very
high volume and if mounted correctly are not noisy. You might end up
freezing the poor rabbits with their own aircon.

On Aug 5, 6:53 pm, "Pete"
wrote:
"lister" wrote in message

oups.com...





Hi all,

I keep rabbits in an 8x6 shed. This is currently insulated with 2"
expanded polystyrene. Although this helps, it still gets very hot
inside during the summer months.

I am planning on buying a cheapy portable air con unit to bring the
temp down, but the problem is that these are very noisy (or so I've
heard), so I don't really want to stick it in the shed with the buns.

I have a double garage about 4 meters away from the shed, and had the
crazy notion of siting the air con unit in there, and piping the
cool / hot air to / from the shed via some kind of submerged pipe.

Am I nuts? Would I need a minimum diameter pipe? (Would drain pipe be
ok for instance?) Whats the best / cheapest way of insulating the
pipe? Would is be ok attaching such piping the air con unit of will it
cause problems?

Many thanks for any suggestions,
Lister

Good idea, but why not try something different. Put a few large fans in the
roof of the shed with a covering to stop the rabbits injuring themselves.
Set the fans to suck air from the hutch and blow it out. This will drag
cool air in and take the warm air out. Cover the tops of the fans to stop
the rain getting in, perhaps a piece of wood a few inches above. Try a few
kitchen/bathroom type fans in the top of the walls. They can shift a very
high volume and if mounted correctly are not noisy. You might end up
freezing the poor rabbits with their own aircon.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for the suggestions, but I should perhaps rephrase my problem
slightly in that I need to keep the shed COOLER than the outside air
temp. Rabbits really don't handle heat well, and with the very hot
summers we have been having (well except this year!), I have been
trying to insulate the shed against heat from outside to keep it
cool.

This is impossible really since the buns have access to the outside
via a tunnel, so I am always going to get hot air entering through
this. I already put that silver bubble wrap stuff over the roof in the
summer, and the rest of the shed is in shade anyway.I do have fans,
and whilst these help slightly, they are not as effective for rabbits
because obviously they don't perspire like us.

It really has reached the point where some kind of refrigeration is
required, but I need to work out the best and cheapest way to do this.

Thanks again.

"lister" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 5, 6:53 pm, "Pete"
wrote:
"lister" wrote in message

oups.com...





Hi all,

I keep rabbits in an 8x6 shed. This is currently insulated with
2"
expanded polystyrene. Although this helps, it still gets very
hot
inside during the summer months.

I am planning on buying a cheapy portable air con unit to bring
the
temp down, but the problem is that these are very noisy (or so
I've
heard), so I don't really want to stick it in the shed with the
buns.

I have a double garage about 4 meters away from the shed, and
had the
crazy notion of siting the air con unit in there, and piping the
cool / hot air to / from the shed via some kind of submerged
pipe.

Am I nuts? Would I need a minimum diameter pipe? (Would drain
pipe be
ok for instance?) Whats the best / cheapest way of insulating
the
pipe? Would is be ok attaching such piping the air con unit of
will it
cause problems?

Many thanks for any suggestions,
Lister

Good idea, but why not try something different. Put a few large
fans in the
roof of the shed with a covering to stop the rabbits injuring
themselves.
Set the fans to suck air from the hutch and blow it out. This
will drag
cool air in and take the warm air out. Cover the tops of the fans
to stop
the rain getting in, perhaps a piece of wood a few inches above.
Try a few
kitchen/bathroom type fans in the top of the walls. They can
shift a very
high volume and if mounted correctly are not noisy. You might end
up
freezing the poor rabbits with their own aircon.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for the suggestions, but I should perhaps rephrase my problem
slightly in that I need to keep the shed COOLER than the outside air
temp. Rabbits really don't handle heat well, and with the very hot
summers we have been having (well except this year!), I have been
trying to insulate the shed against heat from outside to keep it
cool.

This is impossible really since the buns have access to the outside
via a tunnel, so I am always going to get hot air entering through
this. I already put that silver bubble wrap stuff over the roof in
the
summer, and the rest of the shed is in shade anyway.I do have fans,
and whilst these help slightly, they are not as effective for
rabbits
because obviously they don't perspire like us.

It really has reached the point where some kind of refrigeration is
required, but I need to work out the best and cheapest way to do
this.

Thanks again.


Simple really, make your Rabbit Pies before the summer gets too hot
and freeze them for consumption in winter. You should be able to keep
a breeding set going over winter for a new set of pies in the early
summer. Watch out for power cuts to the freezer and don't cook any
with mixamatosis. G

AWEM

On 5 Aug, 22:27, lister wrote:
On Aug 5, 6:53 pm, "Pete"
wrote:
"lister" wrote in message
roups.com...

Hi all,

I keep rabbits in an 8x6 shed. This is currently insulated with 2"
expanded polystyrene. Although this helps, it still gets very hot
inside during the summer months.

I am planning on buying a cheapy portable air con unit to bring the
temp down, but the problem is that these are very noisy (or so I've
heard), so I don't really want to stick it in the shed with the buns.

I have a double garage about 4 meters away from the shed, and had the
crazy notion of siting the air con unit in there, and piping the
cool / hot air to / from the shed via some kind of submerged pipe.

Am I nuts? Would I need a minimum diameter pipe? (Would drain pipe be
ok for instance?) Whats the best / cheapest way of insulating the
pipe? Would is be ok attaching such piping the air con unit of will it
cause problems?

Many thanks for any suggestions,
Lister

Good idea, but why not try something different. Put a few large fans in the
roof of the shed with a covering to stop the rabbits injuring themselves.
Set the fans to suck air from the hutch and blow it out. This will drag
cool air in and take the warm air out. Cover the tops of the fans to stop
the rain getting in, perhaps a piece of wood a few inches above. Try a few
kitchen/bathroom type fans in the top of the walls. They can shift a very
high volume and if mounted correctly are not noisy. You might end up
freezing the poor rabbits with their own aircon.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for the suggestions, but I should perhaps rephrase my problem
slightly in that I need to keep the shed COOLER than the outside air
temp. Rabbits really don't handle heat well, and with the very hot
summers we have been having (well except this year!), I have been
trying to insulate the shed against heat from outside to keep it
cool.

This is impossible really since the buns have access to the outside
via a tunnel, so I am always going to get hot air entering through
this. I already put that silver bubble wrap stuff over the roof in the
summer, and the rest of the shed is in shade anyway.I do have fans,
and whilst these help slightly, they are not as effective for rabbits
because obviously they don't perspire like us.

It really has reached the point where some kind of refrigeration is
required, but I need to work out the best and cheapest way to do this.

Thanks again.

Sure you can pipe it in. You may need to add a (tangential) fan to
overcome pipe resistance. But its going to be more energy efficient if
you run it closed circuit rather than sucking warm air in to cool.
That means 2 pipes.

I dont know whether for the same cost you could get a big hole dug
under the shed. If so, exposure to underground soil would help keep it
below outdoor temp all summer long, free of run cost.

Another lower energy way to do things is to cool a pool of water using
night air temp. Stop any external circulation in day. This will get
your water below outdoor temp, and can cool the shed in the day. Max
cooling is obtained by using a differential thermostat.

Fans dont cool dry warm blooded animals as much, but do still provide
some cooling as long as rabbit temp is above air temp, and are
relatively energy and cost efficient compared to ac.


NT

On 5 Aug, 23:28, wrote:

I dont know whether for the same cost you could get a big hole dug
under the shed. If so, exposure to underground soil would help keep it
below outdoor temp all summer long, free of run cost.

Drill big hole under shed, rabbits go down hole, no problem. That's
how it works in the wild.

ISTR that rabbits can hear high frequency sound inaudible to humans. A
fan that sounds quiet to you might be intolerable to the bunnies. I
suppose you'd only know if they showed signs of distress.

High frequency sounds are also most easily attenuated, which is why
you can only hear the boom, boom, boom of the bass drum when the
neighbours have a 2 am garden party.

If you want A/C for the rabbits you'd probably be better off with a
chiller, which produces chilled water which is pumped to & from a fan
coil unit or something similar. You could do it with a cheap split AC
unit, piped with insulated drain pipes and fans, but I'd anticipate
that control of the air temperature would be nearly impossible to
achieve. How would you do it? A variable (cold) air volume system with
a terminal reheater? It gets very silly very quickly. The cheap end AC
units are cheap cos they're made in huge numbers, a chiller with a
similar output would be much more expensive. Chilled water, radiant
cooled slab (like UFH with cooling).

ISTR that rabbits can hear high frequency sound inaudible to humans. A
fan that sounds quiet to you might be intolerable to the bunnies. I
suppose you'd only know if they showed signs of distress.

High frequency sounds are also most easily attenuated, which is why
you can only hear the boom, boom, boom of the bass drum when the
neighbours have a 2 am garden party.

Yeah they have occilating fans at the mo but these don't seem to
bother them at all. They are more than happy to lie there in front of
them when they are free to go outside if it was causing them distress.
It was more the volume of the air con that was concerning me.

"lister" wrote in message
ups.com...

It really has reached the point where some kind of refrigeration is
required, but I need to work out the best and cheapest way to do this.

I put 2l bottles of ice in socks and pop them in the hutch.
I freeze a new set while one set melts.

The rabbits like it and often lie on them.

On Aug 5, 11:46 pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"lister" wrote in message

ups.com...

It really has reached the point where some kind of refrigeration is
required, but I need to work out the best and cheapest way to do this.

I put 2l bottles of ice in socks and pop them in the hutch.
I freeze a new set while one set melts.

The rabbits like it and often lie on them.

Thanks for the suggestion but yeah we already do this. The problem is
how quickly they melt when it's really hot, we can't refreeze new ones
faster than the old ones melt. Plus we have 4 rabbits so that means
finding space for 4 x 2 litre pop bottles in our modest fridge freezer.

lister wrote:
On Aug 5, 6:53 pm, "Pete"
wrote:
"lister" wrote in message

oups.com...





Hi all,

I keep rabbits in an 8x6 shed. This is currently insulated with 2"
expanded polystyrene. Although this helps, it still gets very hot
inside during the summer months.

I am planning on buying a cheapy portable air con unit to bring the
temp down, but the problem is that these are very noisy (or so I've
heard), so I don't really want to stick it in the shed with the
buns.

I have a double garage about 4 meters away from the shed, and had
the crazy notion of siting the air con unit in there, and piping the
cool / hot air to / from the shed via some kind of submerged pipe.

Am I nuts? Would I need a minimum diameter pipe? (Would drain pipe
be ok for instance?) Whats the best / cheapest way of insulating the
pipe? Would is be ok attaching such piping the air con unit of will
it cause problems?

Many thanks for any suggestions,
Lister

Good idea, but why not try something different. Put a few large
fans in the roof of the shed with a covering to stop the rabbits
injuring themselves. Set the fans to suck air from the hutch and
blow it out. This will drag cool air in and take the warm air out.
Cover the tops of the fans to stop the rain getting in, perhaps a
piece of wood a few inches above. Try a few kitchen/bathroom type
fans in the top of the walls. They can shift a very high volume and
if mounted correctly are not noisy. You might end up freezing the
poor rabbits with their own aircon.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for the suggestions, but I should perhaps rephrase my problem
slightly in that I need to keep the shed COOLER than the outside air
temp. Rabbits really don't handle heat well, and with the very hot
summers we have been having (well except this year!), I have been
trying to insulate the shed against heat from outside to keep it
cool.

This is impossible really since the buns have access to the outside
via a tunnel, so I am always going to get hot air entering through
this. I already put that silver bubble wrap stuff over the roof in the
summer, and the rest of the shed is in shade anyway.I do have fans,
and whilst these help slightly, they are not as effective for rabbits
because obviously they don't perspire like us.

It really has reached the point where some kind of refrigeration is
required, but I need to work out the best and cheapest way to do this.

Shave the fur off the rabbits?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

In message .com,
lister writes
Hi all,

I keep rabbits in an 8x6 shed. This is currently insulated with 2"
expanded polystyrene. Although this helps, it still gets very hot
inside during the summer months.

Just let them dig a burrow - nice and cool, and natural for them


--
geoff

"raden" wrote

Just let them dig a burrow - nice and cool, and natural for them

But how do they know that they're not supposed to burrow sideways then up to
escape from the hutch?
Or are they so happy to be there that they don't want to make a bid for
freedom?

Phil

On Aug 6, 8:37 am, "TheScullster" wrote:
"raden" wrote

Just let them dig a burrow - nice and cool, and natural for them

But how do they know that they're not supposed to burrow sideways then up to
escape from the hutch?
Or are they so happy to be there that they don't want to make a bid for
freedom?

Yeah a burrow would be ideal, but as you say, what is to stop them
diggin up and out again?

A bigger problem is that they would be unaccessible in a burrow which
is a problem if we have to administer meds (eg flystrike protection in
the summer), or grab them for vets trips etc.

lister wrote:
On Aug 6, 8:37 am, "TheScullster" wrote:

A bigger problem is that they would be unaccessible in a burrow which
is a problem if we have to administer meds (eg flystrike protection in
the summer), or grab them for vets trips etc.

Get a ferret, that'll get them out.

The Medway Handyman wrote:

Poodle cut or mohican?

Brasilian.

You are confused. He has rabbits, not beavers.

lister wrote:

Hmm. That's a definate idea.
Am I going to be able to extract the heat exchanger / fit it to the
shed without breaking the pipes? Surely I can't break the seal or I'll
have refridgerant everywhere?

The poster who came up with the idea suggested using the whole fridge
as an extension to the hutch. Cutting the pipes about isn't practical.
You'd have the fridge adjacent to the hutch with access for the
rabbits. The problem then is getting a cat flap type access for
rabbits, limiting the air infiltration ('cos the condensation through
uncontrolled ventilation will use most of the fridge power) and
maintaining adequate ventilation.

You could put a tank in an old chest freezer, fill with anti-freeze
solution (propylene glycol, ethanol glycol is toxic) and pump it to
some cooling device. Run it on cheap(er) night tariff electricity. The
compressors are small compared with chillers so you'd have to conserve
the stored cooling power.

In message ,
TheScullster writes

"raden" wrote

Just let them dig a burrow - nice and cool, and natural for them

But how do they know that they're not supposed to burrow sideways then up to
escape from the hutch?
Or are they so happy to be there that they don't want to make a bid for
freedom?

They're not stupid - they know where the food is

Well, it worked when I had rabbits


--
geoff

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 09:40:34 -0700 someone who may be lister
wrote this:-

I have a double garage about 4 meters away from the shed, and had the
crazy notion of siting the air con unit in there, and piping the
cool / hot air to / from the shed via some kind of submerged pipe.

Moving chilled air means moving large volumes to obtain a given
cooling effect, which means large pipes and thus large losses.

Moving chilled water means small pipes and thus small losses.
However, the sort of equipment which can produce chilled water will
be more expensive than an "air conditioning" unit bought off the
shelf.

If you are cooling the shed you may need to consider what effect
this will have on the humidity.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...

Moving chilled water means small pipes and thus small losses.
However, the sort of equipment which can produce chilled water will
be more expensive than an "air conditioning" unit bought off the
shelf.

Chilled water is cheap. just bury a few tens of metres of plastic pipe 4
foot down and run water through it..
It will stay below air temp all/most of the time if there is enough soil.
It can be a pain to install using a spade though.

On Aug 6, 10:25 am, "dennis@home"
wrote:
water is cheap. just bury a few tens of metres of plastic pipe 4
foot down and run water through it..
It will stay below air temp all/most of the time if there is enough soil.
It can be a pain to install using a spade though.

Convert an old fridge so that it forms part of the hutch.

Convert an old fridge so that it forms part of the hutch.

I was going to say that; a mate of mine made a dehumidifier that way. Nice
and quiet, you shouldn't need the big noisy fan for your smallish shed. Keep
the "heat rejection" coil at the back out of the sun, and with reasonable
air access.

On Aug 6, 1:47 pm, "Newshound" wrote:
Convert an old fridge so that it forms part of the hutch.

I was going to say that; a mate of mine made a dehumidifier that way. Nice
and quiet, you shouldn't need the big noisy fan for your smallish shed. Keep
the "heat rejection" coil at the back out of the sun, and with reasonable
air access.

Hmm. That's a definate idea.
Am I going to be able to extract the heat exchanger / fit it to the
shed without breaking the pipes? Surely I can't break the seal or I'll
have refridgerant everywhere?