Hi

I hope someone can advise me here as I am totally clueless!

We moved into our house about a year ago and inherited a baxi back boiler and central heating system. We have decided to change the system and have a combi boiler fitted and this will allow us to have a new inset fire and get rid of the not so nice one that we have at the moment.

We have had BG out who have given us a quote which we are happy with and they sent their surveyor out yesterday to measure up. It was all booked in for next week but as the surveyor was leaving he noticed that all our pipework is plastic. They are now saying that they can't instal a combi and we can only have a normal boiler. We don't want a normal boiler as we want to get rid of the water tanks in the loft. My husband has spoken to some of his friends and they have combi boilers with plastic pipes and can't see what the problem is. We have pulled up the floor boards so that we can see the pipes and they have written on them "12 bar/12c 7 bar/82c HBPUK PB" and we have been told that this is more than okay for what we need.

Is the fact that we have plastic pipes a problem or not? If we get a local plumber out to do it will it be okay or will it start leaking? Is there anyway around the problem other than changing all the pipework?

Yours hopefully

Vikki

Vikki wrote:
We have had BG out who have given us a quote
....
Is the fact that we have plastic pipes a problem or not? If we get a
local plumber out to do it will it be okay or will it start leaking? Is
there anyway around the problem other than changing all the pipework?

Yours hopefully

Vikki


--
Vikki

The general opinion here seems to be that BG will rip you off big time.
I'd advise getting some other quotes.

From a technical perspective I can't imagine a reason why *most* of the
pipework can't be plastic (the first section from the boiler must be
copper). If there is a technical reason why you can't do this it won't
be because it might leak a bit, it will be a safety issue related to
what happens in certain fault conditions.
Why not browse the manufacturers web sites, both plastic pipe and the
manufacturer of the proposed boiler. Alternatively give the
manufacturers technical departments a phone call.

[Now for some fun].
What does Dr Dribble think?

In message , Vikki
writes

Hi

I hope someone can advise me here as I am totally clueless!

We moved into our house about a year ago and inherited a baxi back
boiler and central heating system. We have decided to change the system
and have a combi boiler fitted and this will allow us to have a new
inset fire and get rid of the not so nice one that we have at the
moment.

We have had BG out who have given us a quote which we are happy

Well I suggest getting other quotes, BG have a reputation for charging
well over the odds.

with
and they sent their surveyor out yesterday to measure up. It was all
booked in for next week but as the surveyor was leaving he noticed that
all our pipework is plastic. They are now saying that they can't instal
a combi and we can only have a normal boiler.

And this is an even better reason as he is talking absolute ********.
Did he say why?

We don't want a normal
boiler as we want to get rid of the water tanks in the loft.

find as long as you are aware of the limitations of combis as well.

My husband
has spoken to some of his friends and they have combi boilers with
plastic pipes and can't see what the problem is.

There isn't one, I installed a CH system with mostly plastic plumbing
with a combi it was fine.

We have pulled up the
floor boards so that we can see the pipes and they have written on them
"12 bar/12c 7 bar/82c HBPUK PB" and we have been told that this is more
than okay for what we need.

Yep. Sounds it. A typical combi system will run at about 1 - 1.5 bar
with a maximum pressure of 3 bar.

Is the fact that we have plastic pipes a problem or not?

No. The only consideration IIRC was that the first metre of pipe from
the boiler had to be copper.

If we get a
local plumber out to do it will it be okay

Yes.

or will it start leaking?

No, it shouldn't unless it was improperly installed in the first place -
a risk with any existing system though.

Is
there anyway around the problem other than changing all the pipework?

Yep, get someone who knows what they are talking about to give you a
quote :-)
--
Chris French

Vikki wrote:
Hi

I hope someone can advise me here as I am totally clueless!

We moved into our house about a year ago and inherited a baxi back
boiler and central heating system. We have decided to change the system
and have a combi boiler fitted and this will allow us to have a new
inset fire and get rid of the not so nice one that we have at the
moment.

We have had BG out who have given us a quote which we are happy with
and they sent their surveyor out yesterday to measure up. It was all
booked in for next week but as the surveyor was leaving he noticed that
all our pipework is plastic. They are now saying that they can't instal
a combi and we can only have a normal boiler. We don't want a normal
boiler as we want to get rid of the water tanks in the loft. My husband
has spoken to some of his friends and they have combi boilers with
plastic pipes and can't see what the problem is. We have pulled up the
floor boards so that we can see the pipes and they have written on them
"12 bar/12c 7 bar/82c HBPUK PB" and we have been told that this is more
than okay for what we need.

Is the fact that we have plastic pipes a problem or not? If we get a
local plumber out to do it will it be okay or will it start leaking? Is
there anyway around the problem other than changing all the pipework?

Yours hopefully

Vikki

Maybe the plastic pipes are the older type without any oxygen barrier
and that's what he is objecting to..or he's just a knob or thinks he
can get more work by changing all the pipes as well. Regardless, use
someone else, British Gas are rip off merchants.

BG, bless 'em, have got a thing about non-barrier pipes. The trouble
is that because they are (erroneously) trusted people tend to think
that using non-barrier will inevitably lead to disaster.
Just to be clear for the OP, even if they are non-barrier there
shouldn't be an issue. They might lead to slightly increased corrosion
in the system but not enough to justify the disruption and additional
expense of removing already installed pipework.

On 24 Nov 2005 15:42:00 -0800, "Calvin" wrote:


From a technical perspective I can't imagine a reason why *most* of the
pipework can't be plastic (the first section from the boiler must be
copper). If there is a technical reason why you can't do this it won't
be because it might leak a bit, it will be a safety issue related to
what happens in certain fault conditions.
Why not browse the manufacturers web sites, both plastic pipe and the
manufacturer of the proposed boiler. Alternatively give the
manufacturers technical departments a phone call.

Give Worcester Bosch a call. We've had a Worcester Bosch boiler for
nearly 20 years. It is still going strong.

When the engineer recently opened it up for its first service in 20
years, he said it is in perfect condition and he could see no reason
why it shouldn't last another 20 years.

Worcester Bosch have a very good service / advice line.

If you are thinking of a new boiler talk to them about their range. I
am sure they can also give you some advice about the plastic pipe
issue.

Graham

"Vikki" wrote in message
...

Hi

I hope someone can advise me here as I am totally clueless!

We moved into our house about a year ago and inherited a baxi back
boiler and central heating system. We have decided to change the system
and have a combi boiler fitted and this will allow us to have a new
inset fire and get rid of the not so nice one that we have at the
moment.

We have had BG out who have given us a quote which we are happy with
and they sent their surveyor out yesterday to measure up. It was all
booked in for next week but as the surveyor was leaving he noticed that
all our pipework is plastic. They are now saying that they can't instal
a combi and we can only have a normal boiler. We don't want a normal
boiler as we want to get rid of the water tanks in the loft. My husband
has spoken to some of his friends and they have combi boilers with
plastic pipes and can't see what the problem is. We have pulled up the
floor boards so that we can see the pipes and they have written on them
"12 bar/12c 7 bar/82c HBPUK PB" and we have been told that this is more
than okay for what we need.

Is the fact that we have plastic pipes a problem or not? If we get a
local plumber out to do it will it be okay or will it start leaking? Is
there anyway around the problem other than changing all the pipework?

Yours hopefully

Vikki

How odd. BG take on maintenance contracts fitted with plastic pipes. How
much plastic is there? Is it on the Radiator circuit? Is it on the hot and
cold water circuits?

They are now saying that they can't instal a combi and we can only
have a normal boiler.

Whilst I believe that BG prefer barrier pipework, there shouldn't be any
difference between a combi and a system boiler, so it makes no sense that
they would fit one, but not the other. Very odd indeed, particularly as it
is the primary circuit (which is identical) that benefits from the barrier.
The mains water supply is so full of oxygen already that a lack of oxygen
barrier is of no relevence whatsoever in the actual hot water pipework.

My husband has spoken to some of his friends and they have combi
boilers with plastic pipes and can't see what the problem is.

Indeed.

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:
They are now saying that they can't instal a combi and we can only
have a normal boiler.

Whilst I believe that BG prefer barrier pipework, there shouldn't be any
difference between a combi and a system boiler, so it makes no sense that
they would fit one, but not the other. Very odd indeed, particularly as it
is the primary circuit (which is identical) that benefits from the barrier.
The mains water supply is so full of oxygen already that a lack of oxygen
barrier is of no relevence whatsoever in the actual hot water pipework.

My husband has spoken to some of his friends and they have combi
boilers with plastic pipes and can't see what the problem is.

Indeed.

Christian.

Best guess would be that they underquoted for the work and prefer the
simpler option of just replacing like for like instead of changing the
system and using any old crap excuse to do this.

Calvin wrote:
BG, bless 'em, have got a thing about non-barrier pipes.

It pains me to say that I think BG are probably right. It's probably
polybutylene tube (HEP2O?), but I don't know if it's a barrier type. If
it is not barrier pipe, there's probably existing corrosion of the
radiators and a lot of corrosion products in the primary side. The
plate heat exchangers on combis have narrow waterways and are liable
to get blocked with sludge. It may be some BG rule born of bitter
experience.

The early non-barrier tubes have caused big problems with some UFH
systems.


The trouble
is that because they are (erroneously) trusted people tend to think

Yes, I trusted them once. Huge mistake, that I'll never repeat.


Just to be clear for the OP, even if they are non-barrier there
shouldn't be an issue.

It will be an issue, but probably in some years.

"Aidan" wrote in message
oups.com...

Calvin wrote:
BG, bless 'em, have got a thing about non-barrier pipes.

It pains me to say that I think BG are probably right. It's probably
polybutylene tube (HEP2O?), but I don't know if it's a barrier type. If
it is not barrier pipe, there's probably existing corrosion of the
radiators and a lot of corrosion products in the primary side. The
plate heat exchangers on combis have narrow waterways and are liable
to get blocked with sludge. It may be some BG rule born of bitter
experience.

They don't take on non-barrier pipe CH systems. As long as the inhibitor is
changed every 4 years there is no problem. Very rarely is this done.

The early non-barrier tubes have caused big problems with some UFH
systems.


The trouble
is that because they are (erroneously) trusted people tend to think

Yes, I trusted them once. Huge mistake, that I'll never repeat.


Just to be clear for the OP, even if they are non-barrier there
shouldn't be an issue.

It will be an issue, but probably in some years.

snip
Whilst I believe that BG prefer barrier pipework,


Had to look up the difference between barrier and non-barrier and found
this:

http://www.hep20.co.uk/v2Opipeselect1.cfm

Which says:

Pipe Selection

Hep2O® pipe is manufactured as two types, Standard and Barrier. Their
correct applications are as follows:-

Standard Pipe

Standard pipe is suitable for domestic hot and cold water services and
heating applications. As standard pipe may allow the ingress of minute
amounts of oxygen molecules through the pipe wall when used for heating
a suitable inhibitor (Betz Dearborne Sentinel, or Fernox MB1) should be
used. Standard pipe is not accepted by British Gas for their service
schemes.

Barrier Pipe

Barrier pipe is designed for central heating systems and incorporates an
oxygen barrier to inhibit oxygen permeation. Barrier pipe is accepted by
British Gas and must always be used where British Gas service is likely
to be sought. The use of inhibitors with barrier pipe is still
recommended as corrosion can occur in all types of system regardless of
pipe material. Barrier pipe may be used for domestic hot and cold water
services.