Am decorating a replastered room. Since the ceiling meets the external
wall on a curve rather than the usual 90-deg corner, I had to decide
arbitrarily where to delineate the wall and ceiling for decorating
purposes (which I'm doing using different-coloured Leyland-brand matt
vinyl emulsions.)

So - I painted the whole lot with a sealing ****-coat (the emulsion
thinned down by 20-30%), then 3-4 days ago gave the ceiling one coat of
brilliant white. This morning I painted the walls in apricot white (OK,
that's magnolia to you and me!), having run a line of 1" masking tape
(3M brand) across the top of the wall to make a nice sharp edge to the
wall colour. So far so good.

This afternoon everything was at least touch dry (it's been damned hot
here all day) so I peeled off the masking tape. Beautiful sharp edge
did indeed result - but unfortunately the tape removed nearly all the
underlying brilliant white, leaving bare plaster. ********, ********
and ********.

So WTF went wrong? Was the plaster not properly sealed - did I use the
wrong stuff? Or was it not properly 'set' even after a few days; ie
should I have waited longer before applying masking tape? Would be
interested to know for next time.

Thanks
David

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:04:31 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

Am decorating a replastered room. Since the ceiling meets the external
wall on a curve rather than the usual 90-deg corner, I had to decide
arbitrarily where to delineate the wall and ceiling for decorating
purposes (which I'm doing using different-coloured Leyland-brand matt
vinyl emulsions.)

So - I painted the whole lot with a sealing ****-coat (the emulsion
thinned down by 20-30%), then 3-4 days ago gave the ceiling one coat of
brilliant white. This morning I painted the walls in apricot white (OK,
that's magnolia to you and me!), having run a line of 1" masking tape
(3M brand) across the top of the wall to make a nice sharp edge to the
wall colour. So far so good.

This afternoon everything was at least touch dry (it's been damned hot
here all day) so I peeled off the masking tape. Beautiful sharp edge
did indeed result - but unfortunately the tape removed nearly all the
underlying brilliant white, leaving bare plaster. ********, ********
and ********.

So WTF went wrong? Was the plaster not properly sealed - did I use the
wrong stuff? Or was it not properly 'set' even after a few days; ie
should I have waited longer before applying masking tape? Would be
interested to know for next time.

Thanks
David


How long has your plaster been drying? A builder (reitred after some
40+ years) has said today that we should be waiting 6-8 weeks minimum
before thinking about decorating. Fine with me as its too darn hot to
paint.
--
http://www.orderonlinepickupinstore.co.uk
Ah fetch it yourself if you can't wait for delivery
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
Or get it delivered for free

Mogga wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:04:31 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

Am decorating a replastered room. Since the ceiling meets the external
wall on a curve rather than the usual 90-deg corner, I had to decide
arbitrarily where to delineate the wall and ceiling for decorating
purposes (which I'm doing using different-coloured Leyland-brand matt
vinyl emulsions.)

So - I painted the whole lot with a sealing ****-coat (the emulsion
thinned down by 20-30%), then 3-4 days ago gave the ceiling one coat of
brilliant white. This morning I painted the walls in apricot white (OK,
that's magnolia to you and me!), having run a line of 1" masking tape
(3M brand) across the top of the wall to make a nice sharp edge to the
wall colour. So far so good.

This afternoon everything was at least touch dry (it's been damned hot
here all day) so I peeled off the masking tape. Beautiful sharp edge
did indeed result - but unfortunately the tape removed nearly all the
underlying brilliant white, leaving bare plaster. ********, ********
and ********.

So WTF went wrong? Was the plaster not properly sealed - did I use the
wrong stuff? Or was it not properly 'set' even after a few days; ie
should I have waited longer before applying masking tape? Would be
interested to know for next time.

How long has your plaster been drying? A builder (reitred after some
40+ years) has said today that we should be waiting 6-8 weeks minimum
before thinking about decorating. Fine with me as its too darn hot to
paint.

Just over 3 months, actually! (Didn't wait that long on purpose...)

David

On 2007-06-11 20:26:15 +0100, Lobster said:

Mogga wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:04:31 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

Am decorating a replastered room. Since the ceiling meets the external
wall on a curve rather than the usual 90-deg corner, I had to decide
arbitrarily where to delineate the wall and ceiling for decorating
purposes (which I'm doing using different-coloured Leyland-brand matt
vinyl emulsions.)

So - I painted the whole lot with a sealing ****-coat (the emulsion
thinned down by 20-30%), then 3-4 days ago gave the ceiling one coat of
brilliant white. This morning I painted the walls in apricot white
(OK, that's magnolia to you and me!), having run a line of 1" masking
tape (3M brand) across the top of the wall to make a nice sharp edge to
the wall colour. So far so good.

This afternoon everything was at least touch dry (it's been damned hot
here all day) so I peeled off the masking tape. Beautiful sharp edge
did indeed result - but unfortunately the tape removed nearly all the
underlying brilliant white, leaving bare plaster. ********, ********
and ********.

So WTF went wrong? Was the plaster not properly sealed - did I use the
wrong stuff? Or was it not properly 'set' even after a few days; ie
should I have waited longer before applying masking tape? Would be
interested to know for next time.

How long has your plaster been drying? A builder (reitred after some
40+ years) has said today that we should be waiting 6-8 weeks minimum
before thinking about decorating. Fine with me as its too darn hot to
paint.

Just over 3 months, actually! (Didn't wait that long on purpose...)

David

Tape too agressive? there are different stickinesses....

On 11 Jun, 20:04, Lobster wrote:
Am decorating a replastered room. Since the ceiling meets the external
wall on a curve rather than the usual 90-deg corner, I had to decide
arbitrarily where to delineate the wall and ceiling for decorating
purposes (which I'm doing using different-coloured Leyland-brand matt
vinyl emulsions.)

So - I painted the whole lot with a sealing ****-coat (the emulsion
thinned down by 20-30%), then 3-4 days ago gave the ceiling one coat of
brilliant white. This morning I painted the walls in apricot white (OK,
that's magnolia to you and me!), having run a line of 1" masking tape
(3M brand) across the top of the wall to make a nice sharp edge to the
wall colour. So far so good.

This afternoon everything was at least touch dry (it's been damned hot
here all day) so I peeled off the masking tape. Beautiful sharp edge
did indeed result - but unfortunately the tape removed nearly all the
underlying brilliant white, leaving bare plaster. ********, ********
and ********.

So WTF went wrong? Was the plaster not properly sealed - did I use the
wrong stuff? Or was it not properly 'set' even after a few days; ie
should I have waited longer before applying masking tape? Would be
interested to know for next time.

Thanks
David

I notice 2 things:
a) diluting paint dilutes the glue component
b) any dampness in the plaster will reduce the paint strength in the
short term.
c) plaster doesnt need sealing.


NT

On Jun 11, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 11 Jun, 20:04, Lobster wrote:



Am decorating a replastered room. Since the ceiling meets the external
wall on a curve rather than the usual 90-deg corner, I had to decide
arbitrarily where to delineate the wall and ceiling for decorating
purposes (which I'm doing using different-coloured Leyland-brand matt
vinyl emulsions.)

So - I painted the whole lot with a sealing ****-coat (the emulsion
thinned down by 20-30%), then 3-4 days ago gave the ceiling one coat of
brilliant white. This morning I painted the walls in apricot white (OK,
that's magnolia to you and me!), having run a line of 1" masking tape
(3M brand) across the top of the wall to make a nice sharp edge to the
wall colour. So far so good.

This afternoon everything was at least touch dry (it's been damned hot
here all day) so I peeled off the masking tape. Beautiful sharp edge
did indeed result - but unfortunately the tape removed nearly all the
underlying brilliant white, leaving bare plaster. ********, ********
and ********.

So WTF went wrong? Was the plaster not properly sealed - did I use the
wrong stuff? Or was it not properly 'set' even after a few days; ie
should I have waited longer before applying masking tape? Would be
interested to know for next time.

Thanks
David

I notice 2 things:
a) diluting paint dilutes the glue component
b) any dampness in the plaster will reduce the paint strength in the
short term.
c) plaster doesnt need sealing.

NT


There are two reason for diluting your first coat of paint over new
(but dry) plaster -

(1) So that it doesn't dry too quickly. The plaster absorbs water - so
water is being sucked out of the paint from underneath at the same
time as it is evaporating from the top. This is bad news for getting
good film formation & a good finish.
(2) If it is thinner, it can sink in to the surface a bit better

However! Matt paint does not have much binder in it. Especially the
lower cost matt paints. So, it isn't very effective at binding the
powdery surface of plaster. (NB. I wouldnt recommend silk either!).

This is why I would *always* recommend plaster sealer (not PVA). It
sinks in, binds the powdery surface and helps seal the surface ready
for the paint.Plus it removes the need to dilute your first coat.

Run your finger along the reverse side of the stuff that has peeled
off. You'll have a dusty finger. No wonder it came off! It was "stuck"
to a layer of dust. This is why plaster should always be sealed with
plaster sealer - if you want a long lasting durable finish.

NB. Always use low tack masking tape & remove it gently - as soon as
possible after painting. The shorter the time it is up there, the less
time it has to really get a grip on the surface.

www.diypaint.co.uk

Lobster wrote:

Am decorating a replastered room. Since the ceiling meets the external
wall on a curve rather than the usual 90-deg corner, I had to decide
arbitrarily where to delineate the wall and ceiling for decorating
purposes (which I'm doing using different-coloured Leyland-brand matt
vinyl emulsions.)

So - I painted the whole lot with a sealing ****-coat (the emulsion
thinned down by 20-30%), then 3-4 days ago gave the ceiling one coat of
brilliant white. This morning I painted the walls in apricot white (OK,
that's magnolia to you and me!), having run a line of 1" masking tape
(3M brand) across the top of the wall to make a nice sharp edge to the
wall colour. So far so good.

This afternoon everything was at least touch dry (it's been damned hot
here all day) so I peeled off the masking tape. Beautiful sharp edge
did indeed result - but unfortunately the tape removed nearly all the
underlying brilliant white, leaving bare plaster. ********, ********
and ********.

So WTF went wrong? Was the plaster not properly sealed - did I use the
wrong stuff? Or was it not properly 'set' even after a few days; ie
should I have waited longer before applying masking tape? Would be
interested to know for next time.

Thanks
David

B&Q Pro(IIRC) range (blue tape) turned out to be very good when I used it.
Not too sticky and left a clean edge.

Tim

diypaint wrote:

On Jun 11, 10:07 pm, wrote:

On 11 Jun, 20:04, Lobster wrote:




Am decorating a replastered room. Since the ceiling meets the external
wall on a curve rather than the usual 90-deg corner, I had to decide
arbitrarily where to delineate the wall and ceiling for decorating
purposes (which I'm doing using different-coloured Leyland-brand matt
vinyl emulsions.)

So - I painted the whole lot with a sealing ****-coat (the emulsion
thinned down by 20-30%), then 3-4 days ago gave the ceiling one coat of
brilliant white. This morning I painted the walls in apricot white (OK,
that's magnolia to you and me!), having run a line of 1" masking tape
(3M brand) across the top of the wall to make a nice sharp edge to the
wall colour. So far so good.

This afternoon everything was at least touch dry (it's been damned hot
here all day) so I peeled off the masking tape. Beautiful sharp edge
did indeed result - but unfortunately the tape removed nearly all the
underlying brilliant white, leaving bare plaster. ********, ********
and ********.

So WTF went wrong? Was the plaster not properly sealed - did I use the
wrong stuff? Or was it not properly 'set' even after a few days; ie
should I have waited longer before applying masking tape? Would be
interested to know for next time.

Thanks
David

I notice 2 things:
a) diluting paint dilutes the glue component
b) any dampness in the plaster will reduce the paint strength in the
short term.
c) plaster doesnt need sealing.

NT



There are two reason for diluting your first coat of paint over new
(but dry) plaster -

(1) So that it doesn't dry too quickly. The plaster absorbs water - so
water is being sucked out of the paint from underneath at the same
time as it is evaporating from the top. This is bad news for getting
good film formation & a good finish.
(2) If it is thinner, it can sink in to the surface a bit better

However! Matt paint does not have much binder in it. Especially the
lower cost matt paints. So, it isn't very effective at binding the
powdery surface of plaster. (NB. I wouldnt recommend silk either!).

This is why I would *always* recommend plaster sealer (not PVA). It
sinks in, binds the powdery surface and helps seal the surface ready
for the paint.Plus it removes the need to dilute your first coat.

Run your finger along the reverse side of the stuff that has peeled
off. You'll have a dusty finger. No wonder it came off! It was "stuck"
to a layer of dust. This is why plaster should always be sealed with
plaster sealer - if you want a long lasting durable finish.

NB. Always use low tack masking tape & remove it gently - as soon as
possible after painting. The shorter the time it is up there, the less
time it has to really get a grip on the surface.


That is the way I have done it in the past. The longer you leave the
masking tape the worse the line. (the paint dries to some extent and
sticks to both the wall and the tape) I would rather get paint all over
my hands than rip the straight paint line.

Dave

On Jun 11, 10:34 pm, Tim S wrote:
Lobster wrote:
Am decorating a replastered room. Since the ceiling meets the external
wall on a curve rather than the usual 90-deg corner, I had to decide
arbitrarily where to delineate the wall and ceiling for decorating
purposes (which I'm doing using different-coloured Leyland-brand matt
vinyl emulsions.)

So - I painted the whole lot with a sealing ****-coat (the emulsion
thinned down by 20-30%), then 3-4 days ago gave the ceiling one coat of
brilliant white. This morning I painted the walls in apricot white (OK,
that's magnolia to you and me!), having run a line of 1" masking tape
(3M brand) across the top of the wall to make a nice sharp edge to the
wall colour. So far so good.

This afternoon everything was at least touch dry (it's been damned hot
here all day) so I peeled off the masking tape. Beautiful sharp edge
did indeed result - but unfortunately the tape removed nearly all the
underlying brilliant white, leaving bare plaster. ********, ********
and ********.

So WTF went wrong? Was the plaster not properly sealed - did I use the
wrong stuff? Or was it not properly 'set' even after a few days; ie
should I have waited longer before applying masking tape? Would be
interested to know for next time.

Thanks
David

B&Q Pro(IIRC) range (blue tape) turned out to be very good when I used it.
Not too sticky and left a clean edge.

I'm not too sure but I think that the paint that masking tape was
designed for is not water based. It is used primarily in situations
where a sprayer is used.

I don't know anything about the above tape but if the stuff is removed
immediately there is less chance of the white stuff removing the paint
it is stuck to.

But if I were going to use it I'd make damn sure the paint it was
going on was not freshly applied, overly thinned down stuff. Not on
plaster at least.

In article ,
Lobster writes:
Am decorating a replastered room. Since the ceiling meets the external
wall on a curve rather than the usual 90-deg corner, I had to decide
arbitrarily where to delineate the wall and ceiling for decorating
purposes (which I'm doing using different-coloured Leyland-brand matt
vinyl emulsions.)

So - I painted the whole lot with a sealing ****-coat (the emulsion
thinned down by 20-30%), then 3-4 days ago gave the ceiling one coat of
brilliant white. This morning I painted the walls in apricot white (OK,
that's magnolia to you and me!), having run a line of 1" masking tape
(3M brand) across the top of the wall to make a nice sharp edge to the
wall colour. So far so good.

This afternoon everything was at least touch dry (it's been damned hot
here all day) so I peeled off the masking tape. Beautiful sharp edge
did indeed result - but unfortunately the tape removed nearly all the
underlying brilliant white, leaving bare plaster. ********, ********
and ********.

So WTF went wrong? Was the plaster not properly sealed - did I use the
wrong stuff? Or was it not properly 'set' even after a few days; ie
should I have waited longer before applying masking tape? Would be
interested to know for next time.

Emulsion paint takes weeks to reach final strength.
I wouldn't dare use masking tape on it during this period.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 11 Jun, 22:29, diypaint wrote:
On Jun 11, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 11 Jun, 20:04, Lobster wrote:

This afternoon everything was at least touch dry (it's been damned hot
here all day) so I peeled off the masking tape. Beautiful sharp edge
did indeed result - but unfortunately the tape removed nearly all the
underlying brilliant white, leaving bare plaster. ********, ********
and ********.

I notice 2 things:
a) diluting paint dilutes the glue component
b) any dampness in the plaster will reduce the paint strength in the
short term.
c) plaster doesnt need sealing.

There are two reason for diluting your first coat of paint over new
(but dry) plaster -

(1) So that it doesn't dry too quickly. The plaster absorbs water - so
water is being sucked out of the paint from underneath at the same
time as it is evaporating from the top. This is bad news for getting
good film formation & a good finish.
(2) If it is thinner, it can sink in to the surface a bit better

However! Matt paint does not have much binder in it. Especially the
lower cost matt paints.

The water coat method avoids the downsides of the **** coat approach.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Paint


NT

Lobster wrote:

Am decorating a replastered room. Since the ceiling meets the external
wall on a curve rather than the usual 90-deg corner, I had to decide
arbitrarily where to delineate the wall and ceiling for decorating
purposes (which I'm doing using different-coloured Leyland-brand matt
vinyl emulsions.)

So - I painted the whole lot with a sealing ****-coat (the emulsion
thinned down by 20-30%), then 3-4 days ago gave the ceiling one coat of
brilliant white. This morning I painted the walls in apricot white (OK,
that's magnolia to you and me!), having run a line of 1" masking tape
(3M brand) across the top of the wall to make a nice sharp edge to the
wall colour. So far so good.

This afternoon everything was at least touch dry (it's been damned hot
here all day) so I peeled off the masking tape. Beautiful sharp edge
did indeed result - but unfortunately the tape removed nearly all the
underlying brilliant white, leaving bare plaster. ********, ********
and ********.

So WTF went wrong? Was the plaster not properly sealed - did I use the
wrong stuff? Or was it not properly 'set' even after a few days; ie
should I have waited longer before applying masking tape? Would be
interested to know for next time.

Well for one thing 1 inch tape is wider than you need. For another
masking tape is rated by time. I have found even the 24hr stuff should
be removed well within that time. If you are at all uncertain then try
the delicate surfaces tape, only problem: getting the stuff to stick in
the first place.

I've just oiled our bannisters as the last step in our hallway
redecoration (an afterthought, unfortunately) and the tape I applied to
the painted wall has removed the paint down to plaster in one small
section, otherwise fine though. So I have concluded the paint in that
place was probably not secure. I was a bit sloppy with the stain rag and
the prep meant I need to touch up the paint anyway so no big problem.

So, wait before taping new paint. Use the least sticky tape you can get
away with. Remove it when the paint is just tacky. The point when you
can remove the tape but the paint won't flow over the line. Don't wait
until the paint is absolutely dry.

Peter

--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country
www.the-brights.net

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-06-11 20:26:15 +0100, Lobster
said:

Mogga wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:04:31 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

Am decorating a replastered room. Since the ceiling meets the
external wall on a curve rather than the usual 90-deg corner, I had
to decide arbitrarily where to delineate the wall and ceiling for
decorating purposes (which I'm doing using different-coloured
Leyland-brand matt vinyl emulsions.)

So - I painted the whole lot with a sealing ****-coat (the emulsion
thinned down by 20-30%), then 3-4 days ago gave the ceiling one coat
of brilliant white. This morning I painted the walls in apricot
white (OK, that's magnolia to you and me!), having run a line of 1"
masking tape (3M brand) across the top of the wall to make a nice
sharp edge to the wall colour. So far so good.

This afternoon everything was at least touch dry (it's been damned
hot here all day) so I peeled off the masking tape. Beautiful sharp
edge did indeed result - but unfortunately the tape removed nearly
all the underlying brilliant white, leaving bare plaster. ********,
******** and ********.

So WTF went wrong? Was the plaster not properly sealed - did I use
the wrong stuff? Or was it not properly 'set' even after a few
days; ie should I have waited longer before applying masking tape?
Would be interested to know for next time.

How long has your plaster been drying? A builder (reitred after some
40+ years) has said today that we should be waiting 6-8 weeks minimum
before thinking about decorating. Fine with me as its too darn hot to
paint.

Just over 3 months, actually! (Didn't wait that long on purpose...)

David

Tape too agressive? there are different stickinesses....


Thanks for all the replies.

Well, this has been an education! I hadn't actually realised that there
were different types of masking tape; I've rarely had occasion to use
the stuff before and simply picked up a roll I found in the cupboard.
I've just checked its reference number on the 3M site and found it's a
general purpose automotive masking tape... presumably that must be
really sticky compared with stuff intended for plaster walls - so that's
a big OOPS I think.

FWIW I also happened across the following 'masking tape selector' chart
which describes which of several types to use in different
circumstances, which others might find useful:
http://tinyurl.com/2ryxf5 (or
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/painting_masking/painting_masking/product_information/tape_selector/)

David