HI Owain

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:33:02 +0100, Owain
wrote:

Adrian wrote:
So, you could store large amounts of mp3 on a digital memory 'stick'
and just plug it into the car radio..... clever !
Do 'personal' mp3 players with the same ability exist? - might take
some of the boredom out of mowing the grass, and would allow the same
mp3 'sticks' to be used elsewhere around the house...

There are a lot of USB memory sticks that include MP3 players, and
they're quite cheap if you don't want displays etc. Argos have 2Gb ones
from £40

You would need to check individual specs to see if they allow replay
through the USB port if you want to plug it into a car (or house) system
using USB. These systems are becoming more common. You can also use them
to carry .doc files etc around with you.

Thanks for the info...

It's a whole new world out there - fascinating...

Seems to me that the best plan at the moment is :-

for car use - _either_ a personal mp3 player with homebrew
amplification
_or_ usb sticks and a compatible cd/mp3 car radio head unit

for ripping cds - pc

for grabbing cassette / vinyl - Creative Zen nano plus (has line in
socket), plus Goldwave for cleaning-up (have copy already from an
earlier project) - combined with cassette player or turntable for a
stand-alone 'grabbing' application

All sounds deceptively simple - wonder what I've missed !??

Regards
Adrian

On 12 Jun, 18:21, Grunff wrote:
Adrian wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but is it possible to organise mp3 files on an
sd-card or USB-stick so that they look like folders - as in one folder
per lp or cd ?

Yes, you can definitely do that.

Does the player then become a sort of 'digital jukebox'? - in that you
could select a folder and play it ?

This varies from player to player. Most support folders, but some just
play everything sequentially.

Note also that some, whilst supporting folders, simply play the tracks
(files) within the folder in the order listed in the File Allocation
Table (FAT). This order is often unpredictable if you drag an entire
folder over with files in it.

There are some tools (well I know of one, on Linux, but there must be
more) to reorder the FAT alphabetically (etc) but the issue is
something to be aware of.

Mathew

HI Matthew

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 04:43:07 -0700, Mathew Newton
wrote:

On 12 Jun, 18:21, Grunff wrote:
Adrian wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but is it possible to organise mp3 files on an
sd-card or USB-stick so that they look like folders - as in one folder
per lp or cd ?

Yes, you can definitely do that.

Does the player then become a sort of 'digital jukebox'? - in that you
could select a folder and play it ?

This varies from player to player. Most support folders, but some just
play everything sequentially.

Note also that some, whilst supporting folders, simply play the tracks
(files) within the folder in the order listed in the File Allocation
Table (FAT). This order is often unpredictable if you drag an entire
folder over with files in it.

There are some tools (well I know of one, on Linux, but there must be
more) to reorder the FAT alphabetically (etc) but the issue is
something to be aware of.


Thanks for that....

The other 'twist' that I hadn't thought of is the fact that
an mp3 'album' looks like a single file to an mp3 player -
there seems to be no notion of 'tracks' within the album.

However - it looks as if Goldwave has the nouse to split an mp3 album
into individual tracks - so that's not necessarily a big deal...

Learning all the time !

I know that all this mp3 stuff is p2p - but doncha wish that people
would at least check that what they're uploading is complete ?
Dragged down a Steely Dan album only to find that half of the last
track (Reelin' in the years) is missing - bah !
However - the track is available on its own - so I'll be able to
stitch it back on g

What fun - and a great deal faster than recording it off the vinyl !

Regards
Adrian

Adrian wrote:
HI Matthew

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 04:43:07 -0700, Mathew Newton
wrote:

On 12 Jun, 18:21, Grunff wrote:
Adrian wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but is it possible to organise mp3 files on an
sd-card or USB-stick so that they look like folders - as in one folder
per lp or cd ?
Yes, you can definitely do that.

Does the player then become a sort of 'digital jukebox'? - in that you
could select a folder and play it ?
This varies from player to player. Most support folders, but some just
play everything sequentially.
Note also that some, whilst supporting folders, simply play the tracks
(files) within the folder in the order listed in the File Allocation
Table (FAT). This order is often unpredictable if you drag an entire
folder over with files in it.

There are some tools (well I know of one, on Linux, but there must be
more) to reorder the FAT alphabetically (etc) but the issue is
something to be aware of.


Thanks for that....

The other 'twist' that I hadn't thought of is the fact that
an mp3 'album' looks like a single file to an mp3 player -
there seems to be no notion of 'tracks' within the album.

However - it looks as if Goldwave has the nouse to split an mp3 album
into individual tracks - so that's not necessarily a big deal...

Learning all the time !

I know that all this mp3 stuff is p2p -

I know people that end up buying the album after downloading the pirate
version, so it's not all bad news for the record industry.

On 13 Jun, 13:52, Adrian wrote:

The other 'twist' that I hadn't thought of is the fact that
an mp3 'album' looks like a single file to an mp3 player -
there seems to be no notion of 'tracks' within the album.

I'm not sure what you mean by that - an album would normally be
encoded into individual files/tracks and any notion of the 'album'
would simply relate to the folder they are stored in (or identified by
the ID3 tag). Perhaps you happened to have come across an album ripped
as a single mp3 file - this was perhaps either on purpose e.g. albums
intended to be played as a continuous uninterrupted series of tracks
(e.g. many 'dance' albums) because mp3 transition between files/tracks
tends not to be seamless (multiple causes) or maybe it was rip from an
analogue source and the ripper hasn't split the album into individual
tracks.

Make sense?

Mathew

HI Matthew

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 07:37:03 -0700, Mathew Newton
wrote:

On 13 Jun, 13:52, Adrian wrote:

The other 'twist' that I hadn't thought of is the fact that
an mp3 'album' looks like a single file to an mp3 player -
there seems to be no notion of 'tracks' within the album.

I'm not sure what you mean by that - an album would normally be
encoded into individual files/tracks and any notion of the 'album'
would simply relate to the folder they are stored in (or identified by
the ID3 tag). Perhaps you happened to have come across an album ripped
as a single mp3 file - this was perhaps either on purpose e.g. albums
intended to be played as a continuous uninterrupted series of tracks
(e.g. many 'dance' albums) because mp3 transition between files/tracks
tends not to be seamless (multiple causes) or maybe it was rip from an
analogue source and the ripper hasn't split the album into individual
tracks.

Make sense?

'Spose so..... g
So can an mp3 file have 'tracks' within it ?

I was playing the file with Realplayer on a laptop, in case that makes
any difference... pressing the 'fast forward' button on Rp had no
effect, though you could drag the little position indicator along to
move forwards in the album...

Certainly not a 'dance' album g...! - though it's quite possible
that whoever mp3'd it just set it to rip the whole thing from
vinyl....

Many thanks
Adrian

Adrian wrote:
All sounds deceptively simple - wonder what I've missed !??

The hours of your life doing it? )

Alan

On Jun 13, 5:28 pm, Adrian wrote:

So can an mp3 file have 'tracks' within it ?

No.

Certainly not a 'dance' album g...! - though it's quite possible
that whoever mp3'd it just set it to rip the whole thing from
vinyl....

Quite probably.

The best way to get to grips with all this is to continue as you are -
hands on. You'll soon be 'down with the kids'... ;-)

There are a million and one web pages about MP3, all with a different
slant, which I guess is part of the problem when finding answers to
your own questions. However have a glance over the MP3 Wikipedia
article - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3 - loads in it that's far
too deep for now (or ever) but possibly some other bits you might pick
up on which could be useful if only for some further background
knowledge.

Mathew

On Jun 14, 7:51 pm, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Jun 13, 5:28 pm, Adrian wrote:

So can an mp3 file have 'tracks' within it ?

No.

Actually, perhaps I should've been a bit clearer here. An MP3 file
could have multiple 'songs' in it but there'd be no 'digital
divider' (for want of a better phrase) to identify them as individual
tracks - each would just flow one to another (with possibly some
silence between them depending on the source). Hence, to skip to the
next song would require you to 'fast forward' until you reached the
correct point in time.

Mathew

In uk.d-i-y, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Jun 14, 7:51 pm, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Jun 13, 5:28 pm, Adrian wrote:

So can an mp3 file have 'tracks' within it ?

No.

Actually, perhaps I should've been a bit clearer here. An MP3 file
could have multiple 'songs' in it but there'd be no 'digital
divider' (for want of a better phrase) to identify them as individual
tracks - each would just flow one to another (with possibly some
silence between them depending on the source).

No doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there
are digital dividers on CDs either. There's some sort of digital index,
presumably at the start of the CD, which indicates to the player how far
in each "track" starts, and that's it AFAIK - nothing "between" the
tracks because there is no "between". The silence that you usually
(don't) hear is actually part of each "track".

--
Mike Barnes

HI Mike

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:39:27 +0100, Mike Barnes
wrote:

In uk.d-i-y, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Jun 14, 7:51 pm, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Jun 13, 5:28 pm, Adrian wrote:

So can an mp3 file have 'tracks' within it ?

No.

Actually, perhaps I should've been a bit clearer here. An MP3 file
could have multiple 'songs' in it but there'd be no 'digital
divider' (for want of a better phrase) to identify them as individual
tracks - each would just flow one to another (with possibly some
silence between them depending on the source).

No doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there
are digital dividers on CDs either. There's some sort of digital index,
presumably at the start of the CD, which indicates to the player how far
in each "track" starts, and that's it AFAIK - nothing "between" the
tracks because there is no "between". The silence that you usually
(don't) hear is actually part of each "track".

You're actually right here -
I only know about the cd thing because I biult a piece of kit to an
Elektor design that played the tracks on a cd one at a time - and
waited for a trigger befreo playing the next one...

(application was to play hymns one-at-a-time in a Church - but
that's not important right now)

The TOC (= table of contents) on a CD gives the information about
'start' and 'end' for each of the tracks on the CD.... but the data
recorded on the CD is actually just that.... data....

'Quiet bits' as in the grooves between tracks on an LP are just 'bits
of silence' encoded into the CD....

It seems that this TOC is what's missing from mp3 'album' files...
unless I've misunderstood it again.... ?

Found a Creative Zen V today in the local town - and had great fun
filling it up with music from various sources. Just need to place the
order with Maplin for a couple of modular amplifiers and then we can
play music in the car again ... great !
Apparently it'll also tuen analogue music into mp3 - haven't had the
chance to test this yet....

This'll do until we get a 'proper' mp3/cd/usb/sd 'head' sorted for the
car.....

Does anybody know if this unit can _play_ mp3 while it's charging from
a USB conection. Doesn't seem to work at the moment - but maybe that's
because it's a real usb connection from a PC - rather than one that
just supplies charging volts ?

Thanks
Adrian

On Jun 14, 8:39 pm, Mike Barnes wrote:
In uk.d-i-y, Mathew Newton wrote:

On Jun 14, 7:51 pm, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Jun 13, 5:28 pm, Adrian wrote:

So can an mp3 file have 'tracks' within it ?

No.

Actually, perhaps I should've been a bit clearer here. An MP3 file
could have multiple 'songs' in it but there'd be no 'digital
divider' (for want of a better phrase) to identify them as individual
tracks - each would just flow one to another (with possibly some
silence between them depending on the source).

No doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there
are digital dividers on CDs either. There's some sort of digital index,
presumably at the start of the CD, which indicates to the player how far
in each "track" starts, and that's it AFAIK - nothing "between" the
tracks because there is no "between". The silence that you usually
(don't) hear is actually part of each "track".

Well, yes, but then this is the trouble with keeping things simple to
demonstrate the point in hand - there are always holes to be found! To
put it a more accurate way then, an mp3 file does not have any sort of
index and hence the contents are for all intents and purposes treated
as one. The closest thing to such an index would be a 'playlist' but
that is only able to refer to seperate tracks/files as opposed to
positions within a single track/file.

Mathew

On Jun 14, 8:39 pm, Mike Barnes wrote:
In uk.d-i-y, Mathew Newton wrote:

No doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there
are digital dividers on CDs either. There's some sort of digital index,
presumably at the start of the CD, which indicates to the player how far
in each "track" starts, and that's it AFAIK - nothing "between" the
tracks because there is no "between". The silence that you usually
(don't) hear is actually part of each "track".

If you read up on P and Q channels in the context of digital audio,
you will find there most certainly *is* a digital code that indicates
the presence, or otherwise, of audio tracks, including the pauses in
between each track. You are right in that a basic audio disk is one
continuous spiral of data, though. Clever shenanigans such as multi-
sessions, track-at-once recording and truly random access are largely
confined to cd-roms.

--
"Money is the root of all wealth."