I am preparing to lay some industrial non slip vinyl on our bathroom floor.


I have just found out that the boards are not as flat as I remembered them.

What would be the best thing to go under the vinyl without having to go
for plywood? If there is no other option but ply, can I lay it in
sections and tape up the joints?

Dave

On 7 Jun, 15:43, Dave wrote:
I am preparing to lay some industrial non slip vinyl on our bathroom floor.

I have just found out that the boards are not as flat as I remembered them.

What would be the best thing to go under the vinyl without having to go
for plywood? If there is no other option but ply, can I lay it in
sections and tape up the joints?

Dave

You can use 3mm hardboard instead of ply if you have a problem with
the thickness of the plywood, or are retro-fitting etc. Not quite so
good as ply, but does a good job for a few years. Note: put the
hardboard web side up, and the vinyl clings quite well to it and nails
(ring shank) or small screws sink into it.
BUT: the shiny side down *will* squeak against the floorboards (don't
I know it !), however many nails/screws you put in, since it has some
give. To get round this, sandwich a thin layer of something flexible
between the floor and hardboard (e.g. an old sheet, or a thin bit of
rubber pond-liner etc).
Sounds complicated, but this is material science !
Simon.

On Jun 7, 4:25 pm, sm_jamieson wrote:
On 7 Jun, 15:43, Dave wrote:

I am preparing to lay some industrial non slip vinyl on our bathroom floor.

I have just found out that the boards are not as flat as I remembered them.

What would be the best thing to go under the vinyl without having to go
for plywood? If there is no other option but ply, can I lay it in
sections and tape up the joints?

Dave

You can use 3mm hardboard instead of ply if you have a problem with
the thickness of the plywood, or are retro-fitting etc. Not quite so
good as ply, but does a good job for a few years. Note: put the
hardboard web side up, and the vinyl clings quite well to it and nails
(ring shank) or small screws sink into it.
BUT: the shiny side down *will* squeak against the floorboards (don't
I know it !), however many nails/screws you put in, since it has some
give. To get round this, sandwich a thin layer of something flexible
between the floor and hardboard (e.g. an old sheet, or a thin bit of
rubber pond-liner etc).
Sounds complicated, but this is material science !

You can buy paper underlay or use newspaper. Or you can put some PVA
between them. But you have to lay the hardboard wet as it shrinks
tight on the tacks like that.

Neglect that step and the hardboard will swell, buckle and curve at
the edges.

sm_jamieson wrote:
On 7 Jun, 15:43, Dave wrote:

I am preparing to lay some industrial non slip vinyl on our bathroom floor.

I have just found out that the boards are not as flat as I remembered them.

What would be the best thing to go under the vinyl without having to go
for plywood? If there is no other option but ply, can I lay it in
sections and tape up the joints?

Dave


You can use 3mm hardboard instead of ply if you have a problem with
the thickness of the plywood, or are retro-fitting etc. Not quite so
good as ply, but does a good job for a few years. Note: put the
hardboard web side up, and the vinyl clings quite well to it and nails
(ring shank) or small screws sink into it.
BUT: the shiny side down *will* squeak against the floorboards (don't
I know it !), however many nails/screws you put in, since it has some
give. To get round this, sandwich a thin layer of something flexible
between the floor and hardboard (e.g. an old sheet, or a thin bit of
rubber pond-liner etc).
Sounds complicated, but this is material science !

Could I get away with putting it down in two/three pieces? The reason I
ask, is that both the toilet bowl and was hand basin pedestal would be
very tricky to cut out from a full sheet. If I could put a joint a few
inches in front of them, fitting would be that much easier. I have the
skills to cut it out in one piece, but I doubt that I could twist the
board around the two. I do not want to put anything under them.

What would the consequences be of using 2 or 3 or even 4 panels. Would
it be best to screw down along the joint that our feet could stand on,
or am I going over the top here?

First panel goes from wall to center line of toilet, second panel goes
from that CL to the CL of wash hand basin and the last piece would go
from CL to bath edge.

Just to note, the floor boards go the same as the length of the bath and
the toilet and wash hand basin are at 90 degrees to that

Dave

On 2007-06-07 22:28:28 +0100, Dave said:

sm_jamieson wrote:
On 7 Jun, 15:43, Dave wrote:

I am preparing to lay some industrial non slip vinyl on our bathroom floor.

I have just found out that the boards are not as flat as I remembered them.

What would be the best thing to go under the vinyl without having to go
for plywood? If there is no other option but ply, can I lay it in
sections and tape up the joints?

Dave


You can use 3mm hardboard instead of ply if you have a problem with
the thickness of the plywood, or are retro-fitting etc. Not quite so
good as ply, but does a good job for a few years. Note: put the
hardboard web side up, and the vinyl clings quite well to it and nails
(ring shank) or small screws sink into it.
BUT: the shiny side down *will* squeak against the floorboards (don't
I know it !), however many nails/screws you put in, since it has some
give. To get round this, sandwich a thin layer of something flexible
between the floor and hardboard (e.g. an old sheet, or a thin bit of
rubber pond-liner etc).
Sounds complicated, but this is material science !

Could I get away with putting it down in two/three pieces? The reason
I ask, is that both the toilet bowl and was hand basin pedestal would
be very tricky to cut out from a full sheet. If I could put a joint a
few inches in front of them, fitting would be that much easier. I have
the skills to cut it out in one piece, but I doubt that I could twist
the board around the two. I do not want to put anything under them.

What would the consequences be of using 2 or 3 or even 4 panels. Would
it be best to screw down along the joint that our feet could stand on,
or am I going over the top here?

First panel goes from wall to center line of toilet, second panel goes
from that CL to the CL of wash hand basin and the last piece would go
from CL to bath edge.

Just to note, the floor boards go the same as the length of the bath
and the toilet and wash hand basin are at 90 degrees to that

Dave

The best solution would be not to use vinyl at all, but if you are
going to then joining it and cutting it around basin pedestals and
toilet pans is not going to look good at all; added to which it's an
invitation for water to find its way through the gaps.

For any bathroom floor application, it's far better to remove the
sanitary ware and fit it back on top afterwards.

Weatherlawyer wrote:

On Jun 7, 4:25 pm, sm_jamieson wrote:

On 7 Jun, 15:43, Dave wrote:


I am preparing to lay some industrial non slip vinyl on our bathroom floor.

I have just found out that the boards are not as flat as I remembered them.

What would be the best thing to go under the vinyl without having to go
for plywood? If there is no other option but ply, can I lay it in
sections and tape up the joints?

Dave

You can use 3mm hardboard instead of ply if you have a problem with
the thickness of the plywood, or are retro-fitting etc. Not quite so
good as ply, but does a good job for a few years. Note: put the
hardboard web side up, and the vinyl clings quite well to it and nails
(ring shank) or small screws sink into it.
BUT: the shiny side down *will* squeak against the floorboards (don't
I know it !), however many nails/screws you put in, since it has some
give. To get round this, sandwich a thin layer of something flexible
between the floor and hardboard (e.g. an old sheet, or a thin bit of
rubber pond-liner etc).
Sounds complicated, but this is material science !


You can buy paper underlay or use newspaper.

Could I use some cotton sheet that I purchased for painting etc. It is
clean.

Or you can put some PVA between them.

Too permanent for my liking. There are cables down there, as well as a
cable joint box.

But you have to lay the hardboard wet as it shrinks
tight on the tacks like that.

That means that I will have to cut it out that way, unless you can tell
me what the shrink ratio is. Or, I will revert to ply.

This job is far bigger that I thought. I wish that I had put the floor
down before we had the bathroom done last year, even just the paneling
would have been enough. Then I could still cut around the toilet and
pedestal. But it is only recently that I have realised just how
dangerous that floor will get as we both get older. I am 61, wife is 60
next month, so I am looking to the time we will need all the help we can
get, to get in or out of the bath/shower.

Neglect that step and the hardboard will swell, buckle and curve at
the edges.

Noted.


Many thanks.

Dave

Andy Hall wrote:

On 2007-06-07 22:28:28 +0100, Dave said:

sm_jamieson wrote:

On 7 Jun, 15:43, Dave wrote:

I am preparing to lay some industrial non slip vinyl on our bathroom
floor.

I have just found out that the boards are not as flat as I
remembered them.

What would be the best thing to go under the vinyl without having to go
for plywood? If there is no other option but ply, can I lay it in
sections and tape up the joints?

Dave



You can use 3mm hardboard instead of ply if you have a problem with
the thickness of the plywood, or are retro-fitting etc. Not quite so
good as ply, but does a good job for a few years. Note: put the
hardboard web side up, and the vinyl clings quite well to it and nails
(ring shank) or small screws sink into it.
BUT: the shiny side down *will* squeak against the floorboards (don't
I know it !), however many nails/screws you put in, since it has some
give. To get round this, sandwich a thin layer of something flexible
between the floor and hardboard (e.g. an old sheet, or a thin bit of
rubber pond-liner etc).
Sounds complicated, but this is material science !


Could I get away with putting it down in two/three pieces? The reason
I ask, is that both the toilet bowl and was hand basin pedestal would
be very tricky to cut out from a full sheet. If I could put a joint a
few inches in front of them, fitting would be that much easier. I
have the skills to cut it out in one piece, but I doubt that I could
twist the board around the two. I do not want to put anything under them.

What would the consequences be of using 2 or 3 or even 4 panels. Would
it be best to screw down along the joint that our feet could stand on,
or am I going over the top here?

First panel goes from wall to center line of toilet, second panel goes
from that CL to the CL of wash hand basin and the last piece would go
from CL to bath edge.

Just to note, the floor boards go the same as the length of the bath
and the toilet and wash hand basin are at 90 degrees to that

Dave


The best solution would be not to use vinyl at all, but if you are going
to then joining it and cutting it around basin pedestals and toilet pans
is not going to look good at all; added to which it's an invitation for
water to find its way through the gaps.

For any bathroom floor application, it's far better to remove the
sanitary ware and fit it back on top afterwards.

I don't have a problem with the vinyl, I can cut that from one piece. I
have the skills to do this to one mm, it's just the cutting of the board
that will go under it.

Thanks


Dave

On 2007-06-07 23:01:09 +0100, Dave said:

Andy Hall wrote:


The best solution would be not to use vinyl at all, but if you are
going to then joining it and cutting it around basin pedestals and
toilet pans is not going to look good at all; added to which it's an
invitation for water to find its way through the gaps.

For any bathroom floor application, it's far better to remove the
sanitary ware and fit it back on top afterwards.

I don't have a problem with the vinyl, I can cut that from one piece. I
have the skills to do this to one mm, it's just the cutting of the
board that will go under it.

Thanks


Dave

OK.

So why not just remove the sanitary ware and put down one piece in each case?

It would be very much easier and produce a better result.

Andy Hall wrote:

On 2007-06-07 23:01:09 +0100, Dave said:

Andy Hall wrote:



The best solution would be not to use vinyl at all, but if you are
going to then joining it and cutting it around basin pedestals and
toilet pans is not going to look good at all; added to which it's an
invitation for water to find its way through the gaps.

For any bathroom floor application, it's far better to remove the
sanitary ware and fit it back on top afterwards.


I don't have a problem with the vinyl, I can cut that from one piece.
I have the skills to do this to one mm, it's just the cutting of the
board that will go under it.

Thanks


Dave


OK.

So why not just remove the sanitary ware and put down one piece in each
case?

It would be very much easier and produce a better result.

I could do that with the loo, but the wash hand basin has been screwed
to the wall and the pedestal put under after :-(

By the time the base and vinyl has been laid, the wash hand basin will
need re-plumbing :-(

I'll put a spirit level on it tomorrow and see if it is with change
specs of what you suggest. After all, it will be the easiest option.
I'll probably be dead when it needs changing again :-(

That's why I said that I wished I had put the board down before the
bathroom was done. It was done by a local plumber, by the way.

This was all done before I realised that, as we are both getting older,
the requirement for a good quality non slip floor was mandatory.

When the bathroom was fitted 12 months ago, I was tied up in a part time
job that didn't let me think about what was happening in our house. For
instance, out bath used to face the front of the house. Taps against the
front wall, shower head behind you, so that when you had a shower in it,
you got a supply of clean water under your feet. The plumber persuaded
my wife to reverse the bath, now she has to use a rubber mat to stop her
slipping.

I'll take it all on board and make a decision next week.

Many thanks

Dave

Dave wrote:


I don't have a problem with the vinyl, I can cut that from one piece. I
have the skills to do this to one mm, it's just the cutting of the board
that will go under it.

Right. Yes you can do that in pieces but try and join them over a
board, and tack it down really well..I did as bathroom like that in
Marley tiles - self stick vinyl thingies - and they were not that
brilliant - there was signs of wear over slight bumps when I demolished
the lot a few years later.

But spongy vinyl sheet is better in that respect.
I must say most places I can get vinyl charge a 'fitted' price and
frankly the boys do a better job than I can..so..

You can fit the vinyl round pedestals and bogs..slit and cut, and use
double sided tape on the far side..and if you are worried about splashes
use clear silicone round the edges.

It's not perfect, but its workmanlike enough, and it sounds like you
have more issues than aesthetic ones.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Dave wrote:


I don't have a problem with the vinyl, I can cut that from one piece.
I have the skills to do this to one mm, it's just the cutting of the
board that will go under it.


Right. Yes you can do that in pieces but try and join them over a
board, and tack it down really well.

I will do that.

I did as bathroom like that in
Marley tiles - self stick vinyl thingies - and they were not that
brilliant - there was signs of wear over slight bumps when I demolished
the lot a few years later.

Sounds like our kitchen when I did it over asphalt flooring. The later
addition of single sheet vinyl fared no better. Both showed signs if the
substrate, hence my question on this ng about the bathroom floor boards.

But spongy vinyl sheet is better in that respect.
I must say most places I can get vinyl charge a 'fitted' price and
frankly the boys do a better job than I can..so..

You can fit the vinyl round pedestals and bogs..slit and cut, and use
double sided tape on the far side..and if you are worried about splashes
use clear silicone round the edges.

Yes :-)

It's not perfect, but its workmanlike enough, and it sounds like you
have more issues than aesthetic ones.

Many thanks for that. I was trained as an engineering fitter from the
age of 15, so the vinyl is simple fitting for me. It was the substrate
that I was worried about.

Many thanks to all who have replied, I am going to put the job off for a
few weeks :-)

Dave

Well, the weather is a bit warm and the sun does get into the bathroom
quite early in the morning and stay there until about 1500 hrs. I'll con
the wife into thinking that it is too hot for the silicone stuff. By
that time, I will have perfected my method to get this floor down :-)
You never know, I might be able to put this off until October. ;-)

On 2007-06-07 23:36:02 +0100, Dave said:

Andy Hall wrote:

OK.

So why not just remove the sanitary ware and put down one piece in each case?

It would be very much easier and produce a better result.

I could do that with the loo, but the wash hand basin has been screwed
to the wall and the pedestal put under after :-(

By the time the base and vinyl has been laid, the wash hand basin will
need re-plumbing :-(

If you are careful, it should be possible to remove the pedestal by
sliding it forward, put the material into place and put the pedestal
back. Check how well it's fitted to the wall though.




I'll put a spirit level on it tomorrow and see if it is with change
specs of what you suggest. After all, it will be the easiest option.
I'll probably be dead when it needs changing again :-(

If you are only adding the thickness of 3mm of ply or hardboard and
some vinyl, then you should not be running into problems with the
plumbing.




That's why I said that I wished I had put the board down before the
bathroom was done. It was done by a local plumber, by the way.

Nothing better than hindsight.



This was all done before I realised that, as we are both getting older,
the requirement for a good quality non slip floor was mandatory.

Understood. You might want to do some more research on what there
is. Non slip industrial vinyl does spring to mind and seems to be
what is used (for example) in special needs applications. I
wonder whether tiles with a somewhat rough surface would achieve the
same effect for example.




When the bathroom was fitted 12 months ago, I was tied up in a part
time job that didn't let me think about what was happening in our
house. For instance, out bath used to face the front of the house. Taps
against the front wall, shower head behind you, so that when you had a
shower in it, you got a supply of clean water under your feet. The
plumber persuaded my wife to reverse the bath, now she has to use a
rubber mat to stop her slipping.

It's often these attention-to-detail things that make a difference.
It's not always possible to work out all of the gotchas beforehand, but
best to take time.




I'll take it all on board and make a decision next week.

Many thanks

Dave