I ordered a pane of toughened glass about 1.5m tall by 0.5m wide, which
I collected today intending to fit it - it's for a fixed light adjacent
to a front door.

Anyway, I got the old glass out this evening, cleaned everything up,
applied putty to the rebate and picked up the new pane... I was holding
it vertically between fingers and thumbs, just lining it up with the
frame when suddenly - KAPOW!! without any warning or provocation the
whole pane exploded instantaneously in mid air, and landed in a heap of
tiny pieces all over my feet. It must have looked like a Tom and Jerry
cartoon; I was left there holding out my empty hands with a stunned look
on my face.

Clearly I need to have a discussion with the glass supplier tomorrow
morning. It seems to me that the pane was flawed in some way - was the
toughening process done wrong in some way - plausible? Is this sort of
thing common? I'm just envisaging the reaction of the supplier tomorrow
- if he refuses to play ball and tells me I bashed it or dropped it I
would like some knowledge at my fingertips!

I'm also concerned at another level - had this spontaneous breakage
occurred an hour later the pane would have been in situ and the property
empty for the night, and therefore totally open to burglary. And if the
glass is so fragile, WTF is the point of paying for it to be toughened?

Would appreciate any comments (before tomorrow!).
David

In article ,
Lobster writes:
I ordered a pane of toughened glass about 1.5m tall by 0.5m wide, which
I collected today intending to fit it - it's for a fixed light adjacent
to a front door.

Anyway, I got the old glass out this evening, cleaned everything up,
applied putty to the rebate and picked up the new pane... I was holding
it vertically between fingers and thumbs, just lining it up with the
frame when suddenly - KAPOW!! without any warning or provocation the
whole pane exploded instantaneously in mid air, and landed in a heap of
tiny pieces all over my feet. It must have looked like a Tom and Jerry
cartoon; I was left there holding out my empty hands with a stunned look
on my face.

Clearly I need to have a discussion with the glass supplier tomorrow
morning. It seems to me that the pane was flawed in some way - was the
toughening process done wrong in some way - plausible? Is this sort of
thing common? I'm just envisaging the reaction of the supplier tomorrow
- if he refuses to play ball and tells me I bashed it or dropped it I
would like some knowledge at my fingertips!

You only have to brush a corner of it against any brickwork
or concrete for that to happen, and you'd probably never
realise you did that. Double glazing installers do this
occasionally, apparently always with the largest and most
expensive and most important window unit in the installation.
I suppose it might have been left with some strange stresses
in it as a result of toughening.

I'm also concerned at another level - had this spontaneous breakage
occurred an hour later the pane would have been in situ and the property
empty for the night, and therefore totally open to burglary. And if the
glass is so fragile, WTF is the point of paying for it to be toughened?

If it wasn't toughened and it broke, you might now be in
hospital having got a large glass dagger stuck in you.
That happened to a friend of mine in the US -- fell through
patio window, and ended up with a long glass dagger stuck
in his arm. Besides the fact he nearly bled to death because
someone at the scene thought it was a smart idea to remove it,
it was 9 months before he started regaining feeling in his
forearm and hand, with no assuurance that would ever happen
at all.

Would appreciate any comments (before tomorrow!).

Laminated glass would be better from a burglary point of
view, but unless all your ground floor glass is laminated,
there's no point.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Wed, 30 May 2007 18:29:05 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

I ordered a pane of toughened glass about 1.5m tall by 0.5m wide, which
I collected today intending to fit it - it's for a fixed light adjacent
to a front door.

Anyway, I got the old glass out this evening, cleaned everything up,
applied putty to the rebate and picked up the new pane... I was holding
it vertically between fingers and thumbs, just lining it up with the
frame when suddenly - KAPOW!! without any warning or provocation the
whole pane exploded instantaneously in mid air, and landed in a heap of
tiny pieces all over my feet. It must have looked like a Tom and Jerry
cartoon; I was left there holding out my empty hands with a stunned look
on my face.

That's the way they go !

My wife had the exactly the same experience with a glass shelf out of
a 4 years old kitchen cabinet.


Clearly I need to have a discussion with the glass supplier tomorrow
morning. It seems to me that the pane was flawed in some way - was the
toughening process done wrong in some way - plausible? Is this sort of
thing common? I'm just envisaging the reaction of the supplier tomorrow
- if he refuses to play ball and tells me I bashed it or dropped it I
would like some knowledge at my fingertips!

It will have had a flaw in it, whether you notched it in transport or
handling or they did will be a moot point.


I'm also concerned at another level - had this spontaneous breakage
occurred an hour later the pane would have been in situ and the property
empty for the night, and therefore totally open to burglary.

Small to medium size panes of glass are not very secure. AIUI burglars
tend not break in via big panes of glass, too much noise.

And if the
glass is so fragile, WTF is the point of paying for it to be toughened?

It doesn't break into sharp dangerous shards.

As a result of the toughening process the surfaces of the glass are
held in tension, if a break occurs in the surface that tension rips it
apart as soon as the break in the surface reaches a critical size
(when the crack gains more energy from the surface tension by growing
than it takes to open the crack it will propagate out of control).

In a shop unit I rent the insurance company insisted I have just such
a glass panel protected with a metal grille.


Would appreciate any comments (before tomorrow!).

Not much help I fear. :-(

DG

Derek Geldard wrote:



That's the way they go !

My wife had the exactly the same experience with a glass shelf out of
a 4 years old kitchen cabinet.





I assume that the glass shelves in my fridge are toughened? Salesman
demonstrated their toughness by takeing one out of the shop floor model
and chucking it on the floor - it bounced in a most rewarding manner!

Fridge is now seven years old. Perhaps I had better stand by for
spontaneously fragmenting shelves, especially as many of them are scratched.

Richard

Derek Geldard wrote:
On Wed, 30 May 2007 18:29:05 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

I ordered a pane of toughened glass about 1.5m tall by 0.5m wide, which
I collected today intending to fit it - it's for a fixed light adjacent
to a front door.

Anyway, I got the old glass out this evening, cleaned everything up,
applied putty to the rebate and picked up the new pane... I was holding
it vertically between fingers and thumbs, just lining it up with the
frame when suddenly - KAPOW!! without any warning or provocation the
whole pane exploded instantaneously in mid air, and landed in a heap of
tiny pieces all over my feet. It must have looked like a Tom and Jerry
cartoon; I was left there holding out my empty hands with a stunned look
on my face.

That's the way they go !

My wife had the exactly the same experience with a glass shelf out of
a 4 years old kitchen cabinet.

Clearly I need to have a discussion with the glass supplier tomorrow
morning. It seems to me that the pane was flawed in some way - was the
toughening process done wrong in some way - plausible? Is this sort of
thing common? I'm just envisaging the reaction of the supplier tomorrow
- if he refuses to play ball and tells me I bashed it or dropped it I
would like some knowledge at my fingertips!

It will have had a flaw in it, whether you notched it in transport or
handling or they did will be a moot point.

Thanks for the replies. Well I suppose since I drove it the short
distance from the supplier to the property, I couldn't stand up in a
court of law and swear that there's no possibility that the pane could
have got notched in transit :-(. Though frankly I really can't see how
it could have. I can certainly say hand on heart that I didn't knock it
any way at the time it fractured though - I was in the middle of a room
and had just picked it up.

Will have to see what the bloke says, I suppose.

David

Lobster wrote:
Derek Geldard wrote:
On Wed, 30 May 2007 18:29:05 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

I ordered a pane of toughened glass about 1.5m tall by 0.5m wide,
which I collected today intending to fit it - it's for a fixed light
adjacent to a front door.

Anyway, I got the old glass out this evening, cleaned everything up,
applied putty to the rebate and picked up the new pane... I was
holding it vertically between fingers and thumbs, just lining it up
with the frame when suddenly - KAPOW!! without any warning or
provocation the whole pane exploded instantaneously in mid air, and
landed in a heap of tiny pieces all over my feet. It must have
looked like a Tom and Jerry cartoon; I was left there holding out my
empty hands with a stunned look on my face.

That's the way they go !
My wife had the exactly the same experience with a glass shelf out of
a 4 years old kitchen cabinet.

Clearly I need to have a discussion with the glass supplier tomorrow
morning. It seems to me that the pane was flawed in some way - was
the toughening process done wrong in some way - plausible? Is this
sort of thing common? I'm just envisaging the reaction of the
supplier tomorrow - if he refuses to play ball and tells me I bashed
it or dropped it I would like some knowledge at my fingertips!

It will have had a flaw in it, whether you notched it in transport or
handling or they did will be a moot point.

Thanks for the replies. Well I suppose since I drove it the short
distance from the supplier to the property, I couldn't stand up in a
court of law and swear that there's no possibility that the pane could
have got notched in transit :-(. Though frankly I really can't see how
it could have. I can certainly say hand on heart that I didn't knock it
any way at the time it fractured though - I was in the middle of a room
and had just picked it up.

Will have to see what the bloke says, I suppose.

Well - I told him my tale of woe yesterday and he looked distinctly
unconvinced, though he stopped short of telling me I was a liar. He's
re-ordering the pane from the factory or whereever it is does the
toughening, and will discuss it with them then.

David

In uk.d-i-y, Derek Geldard wrote:
On Wed, 30 May 2007 18:29:05 GMT, Lobster
wrote:
I'm also concerned at another level - had this spontaneous breakage
occurred an hour later the pane would have been in situ and the property
empty for the night, and therefore totally open to burglary.

Small to medium size panes of glass are not very secure. AIUI burglars
tend not break in via big panes of glass, too much noise.

And if the
glass is so fragile, WTF is the point of paying for it to be toughened?

It doesn't break into sharp dangerous shards.

Thus endangering the burglar. We wouldn't want that now, would we?

--
Mike Barnes

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Lobster
saying something like:

pplied putty to the rebate and picked up the new pane... I was holding
it vertically between fingers and thumbs, just lining it up with the
frame when suddenly - KAPOW!! without any warning or provocation the
whole pane exploded instantaneously in mid air, and landed in a heap of
tiny pieces all over my feet. It must have looked like a Tom and Jerry
cartoon; I was left there holding out my empty hands with a stunned look
on my face.

Would appreciate any comments (before tomorrow!).

Meanwhile, a boy with an airgun was quietly knotting himself laughing in
the bushes.
--

Dave

In article ,
Lobster wrote:
I'm also concerned at another level - had this spontaneous breakage
occurred an hour later the pane would have been in situ and the property
empty for the night, and therefore totally open to burglary. And if the
glass is so fragile, WTF is the point of paying for it to be toughened?

It's strange stuff, toughened glass. One staff canteen I used to frequent
supplied toughened glass water tumblers and it was quite common for one to
explode. But as windows if it survives installation it generally lasts
well. After all car side and rear windows are still mainly toughened.

--
*Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 30 May 2007 23:40:28 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

After all car side and rear windows are still mainly toughened.

Until some scrote comes along with a bit of sharp ceramic or automatic
center punch...

'tis funny stuff though. Remeber them trying to craze a car window for a
stunt once. Cold chisel held against the glass in a corner, gentle tap
with lump hammer, no effect; bigger thump, chisel bounced and was dropped;
took some serious welly to finally make it break.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In article om,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
After all car side and rear windows are still mainly toughened.

Until some scrote comes along with a bit of sharp ceramic or automatic
center punch...

'tis funny stuff though. Remeber them trying to craze a car window for a
stunt once. Cold chisel held against the glass in a corner, gentle tap
with lump hammer, no effect; bigger thump, chisel bounced and was
dropped; took some serious welly to finally make it break.

Yup - same here. Script called for the driver's window to be smashed in
with a baseball bat. After take 5 and the stunt guys getting nowhere with
it, props fitted a masonry nail to the bat. Worked.

--
*Never slap a man who's chewing tobacco *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article om,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
After all car side and rear windows are still mainly toughened.

Until some scrote comes along with a bit of sharp ceramic or automatic
center punch...

'tis funny stuff though. Remeber them trying to craze a car window for a
stunt once. Cold chisel held against the glass in a corner, gentle tap
with lump hammer, no effect; bigger thump, chisel bounced and was
dropped; took some serious welly to finally make it break.

Yup - same here. Script called for the driver's window to be smashed in
with a baseball bat. After take 5 and the stunt guys getting nowhere with
it, props fitted a masonry nail to the bat. Worked.

;-) reminds of the recent demonstration that it is practically
impossible to light a puddle/stream of petrol with a lit ciggy. The
alternatives wouldn't look so cool though, would they?

Peter

--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country
www.the-brights.net

In uk.d-i-y, Peter Ashby wrote:
reminds of the recent demonstration that it is practically
impossible to light a puddle/stream of petrol with a lit ciggy.

That's true, but try telling smokers that they can smoke but they can't
light up.

--
Mike Barnes

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com...
On Wed, 30 May 2007 23:40:28 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

After all car side and rear windows are still mainly toughened.

Until some scrote comes along with a bit of sharp ceramic or automatic
center punch...

'tis funny stuff though. Remeber them trying to craze a car window for a
stunt once. Cold chisel held against the glass in a corner, gentle tap
with lump hammer, no effect; bigger thump, chisel bounced and was dropped;
took some serious welly to finally make it break.

I recall a woman locked out of her car with the keys visible in the
ignition, c 1975, asking a Policeman to break the door window. I had been
going to offer to open the door without damage, but thought it better not to
demonstrate proficiency with a piece of plastic strapping on a door release
knob once she called him over. It took him lots of attempts with his
truncheon before the window finally gave way.

Colin Bignell

In article ,
nightjar nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com wrote:
I recall a woman locked out of her car with the keys visible in the
ignition, c 1975, asking a Policeman to break the door window. I had
been going to offer to open the door without damage, but thought it
better not to demonstrate proficiency with a piece of plastic strapping
on a door release knob once she called him over. It took him lots of
attempts with his truncheon before the window finally gave way.

An asp works rather better. ;-)

--
*(over a sketch of the titanic) "The boat sank - get over it

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 31 May 2007 10:07:55 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
nightjar nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com wrote:
I recall a woman locked out of her car with the keys visible in the
ignition, c 1975, asking a Policeman to break the door window. I had
been going to offer to open the door without damage, but thought it
better not to demonstrate proficiency with a piece of plastic strapping
on a door release knob once she called him over. It took him lots of
attempts with his truncheon before the window finally gave way.

An asp works rather better. ;-)

How does a snake mange that ? or did you mean a rough file ...

..an asp