Installed at the moment is a standard none condensing boiler, on a
kitchen wall and working absolutely fine - supplying heating and hot
water via a tank, with the usual header in the loft.

In my absence an installer has been along to price up for replacing
this boiler with a new condensing type, without specifying make, model
or even the type - though I would assume the type will be 'regular'.

As part of the installation the installer has quoted for the complete
replacement of the gas supply pipe all the way back to the meter, with
no explanation as to why this might be needed or necessary. Obviously I
am rather puzzled, as the existing pipe is not that old, put in during
the last major refit about twenty years ago and I would have thought
perfectly adequate. From memory it is 22mm from the meter to the corner
where the boiler plus cooker are, then drops down to 15mm for the final
1m or so to the actual existing boiler.

Mentioned by the surveyor (all second hand information) was the running
of the new pipe around the outside of the house.

Now before I start shouting expletives at the surveyor down the phone,
I would appreciate some comments first on the above.



--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Fri, 25 May 2007 17:12:19 UTC, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

As part of the installation the installer has quoted for the complete
replacement of the gas supply pipe all the way back to the meter, with
no explanation as to why this might be needed or necessary. Obviously I
am rather puzzled, as the existing pipe is not that old, put in during
the last major refit about twenty years ago and I would have thought
perfectly adequate. From memory it is 22mm from the meter to the corner
where the boiler plus cooker are, then drops down to 15mm for the final
1m or so to the actual existing boiler.

Our old non-condensing boiler had 22mm for most of the distance, then
15mm for the last 2 metres. The new condensing one needed 22mm
throughout, so the guy just replaced the 15mm part. That seems fair
enough - if that much gas is needed at time, then so be it.

Perhaps he's trying to factor the cooker out of the equation because the
pressure at the boiler would fall below minimum if the cooker was in
use. Or perhaps he wants a less obstructed run to keep the pressure
higher.

(I am not a gas engineer; these are just my observations and what the
guy said to me)

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On Fri, 25 May 2007 18:12:19 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Installed at the moment is a standard none condensing boiler, on a
kitchen wall and working absolutely fine - supplying heating and hot
water via a tank, with the usual header in the loft.

In my absence an installer has been along to price up for replacing
this boiler with a new condensing type, without specifying make, model
or even the type - though I would assume the type will be 'regular'.

As part of the installation the installer has quoted for the complete
replacement of the gas supply pipe all the way back to the meter, with
no explanation as to why this might be needed or necessary. Obviously I
am rather puzzled, as the existing pipe is not that old, put in during
the last major refit about twenty years ago and I would have thought
perfectly adequate. From memory it is 22mm from the meter to the corner
where the boiler plus cooker are, then drops down to 15mm for the final
1m or so to the actual existing boiler.

Mentioned by the surveyor (all second hand information) was the running
of the new pipe around the outside of the house.

Now before I start shouting expletives at the surveyor down the phone,
I would appreciate some comments first on the above.


Take a look at the FAQs below. Why are you wanting to change the boiler?


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

Ed Sirett formulated on Friday :
On Fri, 25 May 2007 18:12:19 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Installed at the moment is a standard none condensing boiler, on a
kitchen wall and working absolutely fine - supplying heating and hot
water via a tank, with the usual header in the loft.

In my absence an installer has been along to price up for replacing
this boiler with a new condensing type, without specifying make, model
or even the type - though I would assume the type will be 'regular'.

As part of the installation the installer has quoted for the complete
replacement of the gas supply pipe all the way back to the meter, with
no explanation as to why this might be needed or necessary. Obviously I
am rather puzzled, as the existing pipe is not that old, put in during
the last major refit about twenty years ago and I would have thought
perfectly adequate. From memory it is 22mm from the meter to the corner
where the boiler plus cooker are, then drops down to 15mm for the final
1m or so to the actual existing boiler.

Mentioned by the surveyor (all second hand information) was the running
of the new pipe around the outside of the house.

Now before I start shouting expletives at the surveyor down the phone,
I would appreciate some comments first on the above.


Take a look at the FAQs below. Why are you wanting to change the boiler?

Well thanks for that, but no answer I could find in the FAQ's.

Why, well because our boiler is getting on a bit in years and is
perhaps due for replacement with something more efficient.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
...
Installed at the moment is a standard none condensing boiler, on a kitchen
wall and working absolutely fine - supplying heating and hot water via a
tank, with the usual header in the loft.

In my absence an installer has been along to price up for replacing this
boiler with a new condensing type, without specifying make, model or even
the type - though I would assume the type will be 'regular'.

As part of the installation the installer has quoted for the complete
replacement of the gas supply pipe all the way back to the meter, with no
explanation as to why this might be needed or necessary. Obviously I am
rather puzzled, as the existing pipe is not that old, put in during the
last major refit about twenty years ago and I would have thought perfectly
adequate. From memory it is 22mm from the meter to the corner where the
boiler plus cooker are, then drops down to 15mm for the final 1m or so to
the actual existing boiler.

Mentioned by the surveyor (all second hand information) was the running of
the new pipe around the outside of the house.

Now before I start shouting expletives at the surveyor down the phone, I
would appreciate some comments first on the above.


Firstly, can't help unless you say how long the existing pipe run is from
the meter to the boiler.

Secondly get some more quotes, not just to benchmark prices, but also
proposed method.

Jim A

Jim Alexander was thinking very hard :
Firstly, can't help unless you say how long the existing pipe run is from
the meter to the boiler.

Secondly get some more quotes, not just to benchmark prices, but also
proposed method.

The 22mm pipe is around 8m long, feeding a never used gas pipe, the
boiler and a gas hob (electric oven).

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
...
Jim Alexander was thinking very hard :
Firstly, can't help unless you say how long the existing pipe run is
from the meter to the boiler.

Secondly get some more quotes, not just to benchmark prices, but also
proposed method.

The 22mm pipe is around 8m long, feeding a never used gas pipe, the boiler
and a gas hob (electric oven).


OK, look at the recent "combi size advice" thread for some background. Did
a confidence check using you data assuming a largish combi and a full cooker
and the results are bordeline for 22mm pipe, hence I predict your installer
is trying to slip in a combi and has probably reasonably advised larger
diameter pipework. But if by regular you mean non-combi, there should not
be a problem with using your existing pipework.

Perhaps the main lesson is that as the customer you need to specify at least
the type of boiler you want. As far as make and model is concerned, fraid
there is no consensus.

Jim A

On Fri, 25 May 2007 19:51:22 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Ed Sirett formulated on Friday :
On Fri, 25 May 2007 18:12:19 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Installed at the moment is a standard none condensing boiler, on a
kitchen wall and working absolutely fine - supplying heating and hot
water via a tank, with the usual header in the loft.

In my absence an installer has been along to price up for replacing
this boiler with a new condensing type, without specifying make, model
or even the type - though I would assume the type will be 'regular'.

As part of the installation the installer has quoted for the complete
replacement of the gas supply pipe all the way back to the meter, with
no explanation as to why this might be needed or necessary. Obviously I
am rather puzzled, as the existing pipe is not that old, put in during
the last major refit about twenty years ago and I would have thought
perfectly adequate. From memory it is 22mm from the meter to the corner
where the boiler plus cooker are, then drops down to 15mm for the final
1m or so to the actual existing boiler.

Mentioned by the surveyor (all second hand information) was the running
of the new pipe around the outside of the house.

Now before I start shouting expletives at the surveyor down the phone,
I would appreciate some comments first on the above.


Take a look at the FAQs below. Why are you wanting to change the boiler?

Well thanks for that, but no answer I could find in the FAQ's.

Why, well because our boiler is getting on a bit in years and is
perhaps due for replacement with something more efficient.


So all the stuff about there only being 1mbar drop in gas pressure in the
installation pipes didn't have any bearing on your situation?

The regs are much more tightly enforced that they used to be. Modern
boilers can be less tolerant of poor gas supply pressure.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

Jim Alexander brought next idea :
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
...
Jim Alexander was thinking very hard :
Firstly, can't help unless you say how long the existing pipe run is from
the meter to the boiler.

Secondly get some more quotes, not just to benchmark prices, but also
proposed method.

The 22mm pipe is around 8m long, feeding a never used gas pipe, the boiler
and a gas hob (electric oven).


OK, look at the recent "combi size advice" thread for some background. Did a
confidence check using you data assuming a largish combi and a full cooker
and the results are bordeline for 22mm pipe, hence I predict your installer
is trying to slip in a combi and has probably reasonably advised larger
diameter pipework. But if by regular you mean non-combi, there should not be
a problem with using your existing pipework.

Perhaps the main lesson is that as the customer you need to specify at least
the type of boiler you want. As far as make and model is concerned, fraid
there is no consensus.

Jim A

Regular as in a direct replacement boiler except it is of the modern
and more efficient condensing design. Retain everything else, as in -
header tank, hot water tank, radiators pipework etc. just a new boiler
plus new controls.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Jim Alexander" wrote in message
k...

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
...
Jim Alexander was thinking very hard :
Firstly, can't help unless you say how long the existing pipe run is
from the meter to the boiler.

Secondly get some more quotes, not just to benchmark prices, but also
proposed method.

The 22mm pipe is around 8m long, feeding a never used gas pipe, the
boiler and a gas hob (electric oven).


OK, look at the recent "combi size advice" thread for some background.
Did a confidence check using you data assuming a largish combi and a full
cooker and the results are bordeline for 22mm pipe, hence I predict your
installer is trying to slip in a combi and has probably reasonably advised
larger diameter pipework. But if by regular you mean non-combi, there
should not be a problem with using your existing pipework.

If the hob is just too much for the gas pipe. it is best to run a 15mm for
the hob back to the meter - cheaper.

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Regular as in a direct replacement boiler except it is of the modern and
more efficient condensing design. Retain everything else, as in - header
tank, hot water tank, radiators pipework etc. just a new boiler plus new
controls.

So that narrows your choice to a "heating only" boiler or possibly a
system boiler if you can find one that will run vented. Having said that
switching to a sealed system would not represent significant change -
you would just no longer need the header tank - and would open up a much
wide range of choice.

Since you are talking about going the combi route then gas pipe size
will be less of an issue since the maximum power demand on the boiler
(and hence gas requirement) will be lower.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Owain wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
So that narrows your choice to a "heating only" boiler ...
Since you are talking about going the combi route then gas pipe size
will be less of an issue since the maximum power demand on the boiler
(and hence gas requirement) will be lower.

I know it was early in the morning (or very late at night :-) ) but

the latter

should there have been a 'NOT' before 'talking'?

Indeed there should...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sat, 26 May 2007 19:54:51 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Jim Alexander" wrote in message
k...

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
...
Jim Alexander was thinking very hard :
Firstly, can't help unless you say how long the existing pipe run is
from the meter to the boiler.

Secondly get some more quotes, not just to benchmark prices, but also
proposed method.

The 22mm pipe is around 8m long, feeding a never used gas pipe, the
boiler and a gas hob (electric oven).


OK, look at the recent "combi size advice" thread for some background.
Did a confidence check using you data assuming a largish combi and a full
cooker and the results are bordeline for 22mm pipe, hence I predict your
installer is trying to slip in a combi and has probably reasonably advised
larger diameter pipework. But if by regular you mean non-combi, there
should not be a problem with using your existing pipework.

If the hob is just too much for the gas pipe. it is best to run a 15mm for
the hob back to the meter - cheaper.

Without seeing the entire layout, existing fittings, materials and methods
of construction. The 'best' way to improve the layout of the gas
installation is no more than educated guesswork.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 May 2007 19:54:51 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Jim Alexander" wrote in message
k...

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
...
Jim Alexander was thinking very hard :
Firstly, can't help unless you say how long the existing pipe run is
from the meter to the boiler.

Secondly get some more quotes, not just to benchmark prices, but also
proposed method.

The 22mm pipe is around 8m long, feeding a never used gas pipe, the
boiler and a gas hob (electric oven).


OK, look at the recent "combi size advice" thread for some background.
Did a confidence check using you data assuming a largish combi and a
full
cooker and the results are bordeline for 22mm pipe, hence I predict your
installer is trying to slip in a combi and has probably reasonably
advised
larger diameter pipework. But if by regular you mean non-combi, there
should not be a problem with using your existing pipework.

If the hob is just too much for the gas pipe. it is best to run a 15mm
for
the hob back to the meter - cheaper.

Without seeing the entire layout, existing fittings, materials and methods
of construction. The 'best' way to improve the layout of the gas
installation is no more than educated guesswork.

Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies has the boiler on its own
independent gas supply.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies has the boiler on its own
independent gas supply.

So two meters for two combis?

--
*You sound reasonable......time to up my medication

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies has the boiler on its own
independent gas supply.

So

Please eff off as you are an idiot.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies has the boiler on its own
independent gas supply.

So two meters for two combis?

At least.

Best of all is to put the second combi on a LPG gas tank so you have
total redundancy when North Sea gas runs out.

I believe Drivel is making his own methane digester powered by hot air,
to produce something worthwile out of all the **** he talks.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Please eff off as you are an idiot.

Back to normal then. Are you back on the booze too?

--
*Too many clicks spoil the browse *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2007-06-03 10:05:53 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies has the boiler on its own
independent gas supply.

So two meters for two combis?

Oh no. A separate pipeline run all the way back to Kazakhstan

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Please eff off as you are an idiot.

Back

Please eff off as you are an idiot.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Please eff off as you are an idiot.

Back to normal then. Are you back on the booze too?

Please eff off as you are an idiot.

Sad. But it's not too late - don't let a relapse ruin things. Get back
into rehab immediately.

--
*A nest isn't empty until all their stuff is out of the attic

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Please eff off as you are an idiot.

Back to normal then. Are you back on the booze too?

Please eff off as you are an idiot.

Sad.

Please eff off as you are an idiot.

In article ews.net,
"Doctor Drivel" writes:

Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies has the boiler on its own
independent gas supply.

Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies calculates the size
of pipework they need, and has a good laugh at your postings.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 2007-06-03 18:59:40 +0100, (Andrew
Gabriel) said:

In article ews.net,
"Doctor Drivel" writes:

Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies has the boiler on its own
independent gas supply.

Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies calculates the size
of pipework they need, and has a good laugh at your postings.

Nice :-)

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
"Doctor Drivel" writes:

Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies has the boiler on its own
independent gas supply.

Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies calculates the size
of pipework they need, and has a good laugh at your postings.

I said....."Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies has the boiler on
its own independent gas supply." Got it, Amateur?

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-06-03 18:59:40 +0100, (Andrew Gabriel)
said:

In article ews.net,
"Doctor Drivel" writes:

Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies has the boiler on its own
independent gas supply.

Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies calculates the size
of pipework they need, and has a good laugh at your postings.

Nice :-)

Another one.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I said....."Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies has the boiler
on its own independent gas supply." Got it, Amateur?

Obviously you don't understand 'independant'. Look at my posts - it will
give you a clue.

Only rank amateurs give advice which is misleading.

--
*My dog can lick anyone

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

I said....."Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies has the boiler
on its own independent gas supply." Got it, Amateur?

Obviously

Please eff off as you are an idiot.

On 2007-06-04 15:55:37 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

I said....."Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies has the boiler
on its own independent gas supply." Got it, Amateur?

Obviously

Please eff off as you are an idiot.

Have you sought treatment for your coprographia?

Apparently, there are suitable medications available....

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-06-04 15:55:37 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

I said....."Anyone who knows anything about gas supplies has the boiler
on its own independent gas supply." Got it, Amateur?

Obviously

Please eff off as you are an idiot.

Have

Matt, please eff off as you are a plantpot.

On 2007-06-04 21:58:17 +0100, Owain said:

Andy Hall wrote:
Please eff off as you are an idiot.
Have you sought treatment for your coprographia?

I think you mean coprolalia.

Coprophilia is something different, I think.

But couldn't we all just ignore him (unless he says something really
dangerous).

Owain

No it was the right word. Coprolalia is the spoken word (e.g. as an
occasional symptom of Tourette Syndrome).

Coprographia is when it's written or drawn.

In message , Owain
writes
Andy Hall wrote:
Please eff off as you are an idiot.
Have you sought treatment for your coprographia?

I think you mean coprolalia.

Coprophilia is something different, I think.

But couldn't we all just ignore him (unless he says something really
dangerous).

A very sensible plan

deprive him of the attention he craves



--
geoff

On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:58:17 +0100, Owain
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
Please eff off as you are an idiot.
Have you sought treatment for your coprographia?

I think you mean coprolalia.

Coprophilia is something different, I think.

But couldn't we all just ignore him (unless he says something really
dangerous).

I once had a dog (a bitch actually) (Lucy) that had coprophagia.
Apparently it was quite common in springer spaniel bitches. It looked
pretty awful, and felt worse when she'd lick you soon afterwards :-(

She was lovely all the same!

--
Frank Erskine

Owain wrote:

But couldn't we all just ignore him (unless he says something really
dangerous).

Yup, it was really rather pleasant here while he was incarcerated. ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Owain
writes
Andy Hall wrote:
Please eff off as you are an idiot.
Have you sought treatment for your coprographia?

I think you mean coprolalia.

Coprophilia is something different, I think.

But couldn't we all just ignore him (unless he says something really
dangerous).

A very sensible plan

deprive him of the attention he craves

Maxie, how your motorbike. When I see a fatty on one I will think of you.