Anybody got any pointers to designs for woodworking benches?

I'm sketching-out some ideas for a woodworking bench top to fit on an
existing sturdy metal frame. The top's going to be 1500x660 (overhanging
slightly at each end), a tool well at the back, a quick release vice set
on the front and a standard vice on the end. Probably also a removable
panel to drop-in a router.
Buying/laminating loads of Beech strips seems like too much work and
expense so I'm thinking of laminating 3 layers of 18mm ply (or maybe
MDF) and edging it with some 30mm wide Beech. There'll be a sacrificial
layer of 6mm MDF on the top that will get changed when necessary. Does
this sound sensible?
Any suggestions for stockists of thicker ply? or HDF, or Beech kitchen
worktops at a sensible price?

Dave
(I'll post this in rec.woodworking too)

Sound a very good plan. You don't say what sort of work you plan to do
on it. I'd make doubly sure there's lots of weight and stiffness so it
can't rock if I'm sawing.

Prepping it for bench dogs/hold-downs and racks for clamps/sash cramps
might be nice if you use them:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/category-...ngs-208051.htm

On 2007-05-08 22:01:01 +0100, NoSpam said:

Anybody got any pointers to designs for woodworking benches?

I'm sketching-out some ideas for a woodworking bench top to fit on an
existing sturdy metal frame. The top's going to be 1500x660
(overhanging slightly at each end), a tool well at the back, a quick
release vice set on the front and a standard vice on the end. Probably
also a removable panel to drop-in a router.
Buying/laminating loads of Beech strips seems like too much work and
expense so I'm thinking of laminating 3 layers of 18mm ply (or maybe
MDF) and edging it with some 30mm wide Beech. There'll be a sacrificial
layer of 6mm MDF on the top that will get changed when necessary. Does
this sound sensible?
Any suggestions for stockists of thicker ply? or HDF, or Beech kitchen
worktops at a sensible price?

Dave
(I'll post this in rec.woodworking too)


It really depends on what you are planning to use the bench to do.
If you need a surface that will remain flat and stable and stand up to
punishment, then it needs to be solid and substantial.

There are some quite reasonable ideas at plansnow,com

If you take a look at their Heavy Duty Workbench it is made in roughly
the way you are suggesting for the surface.
The key to the method (or any other bench) is having a sturdy frame
underneath the surface to support the top.

On Tue, 08 May 2007 22:01:01 +0100, NoSpam
wrote:

Anybody got any pointers to designs for woodworking benches?

The Scott Landis workbench book from Taunton
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1561582700/codesmiths
Don't even think about a bench until you've read this.

It's well worth buying all three (benches, toolboxes, workshops) and
they even do a cheaper box set
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1561585696/codesmiths
Otherwise look on eBay (there's a scrum) or most local libraries should
be able to get hold of it..

Jim Tolpin has also done a workbench book that should be worth the look.

My own bench
http://codesmiths.com/shed/workshop/bench.htm
is the Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking design (stretched a bit) from his
3rd book, a Scandinavian pattern. Not as good a book as his first
volumes (another essential woodworking book) but it's a good bench
design and worth buying the book for that alone, if you use it. I'd
suggest trying to borrow and read it though.

If I made another bench though, it would probably be the Frank Klausz
mainland European design (described briefly in Landis). It's a lot like
Frid's, but the shoulder vice design is a bit more useful for timber
boards rather than half-constructed carcases.

Any other bench I made would have to have some sort of moving dogs in
the top surface (like Frid's tail vice). These are much more useful for
joinery than any iron vice I've ever had.

I'm sketching-out some ideas for a woodworking bench top to fit on an
existing sturdy metal frame.

No such animal, if by woodworking you mean handwork, planing and
chiselling. Steel is strong, but it doesn't have the inertia, damping
and stiffness of a good wooden frame. Under rhythmic loads it'll sway
back and forth beneath you. Even if you weld stiffeners all over it,
it's still an annoyance. As a minimum, I'd use a solid sheet back, then
weld angle sections across that to stiffen it.


The top's going to be 1500x660 (overhanging
slightly at each end),

a tool well at the back,

Big enough to catch things rolling, but no bigger.

a quick release vice set
on the front and a standard vice on the end.

I've no use for an iron tail vice whatsoever. Tail vices aren't there as
vices, they're either there as front-edge notch vices (useful) or as a
moving member to work moving dogs (incredibly useful). Wooden tail vices
aren't to be used as vices on the end of the bench (you'll strain them)
and the whole idea of a "tail-mounted vice" is a red herring that has
grown up around them.

Probably also a removable panel to drop-in a router.

Damned annoying to work around. Router tables are easy - make a simple
top and stick it on a cheapWorkmutt frame.
http://codesmiths.com/shed/workshop/techniques/router_table/

Buying/laminating loads of Beech strips seems like too much work and
expense

Bit soft too, IMHO. Use oak or maple, if you're going to that much
trouble. Mine's 12" wide cabinet-grade oak ripped down into 2" strips
and re-jointed, just because we had nowhere to store the stuff any
longer and it was time to use it for a benchtop or firewood! OTOH, you
only need one good face, so you can save money on skankier boards than
"best" and it shoudn't cost an impossible amount.

so I'm thinking of laminating 3 layers of 18mm ply (or maybe
MDF) and edging it with some 30mm wide Beech.

2 x 19mm baltic birch plies and a 4mm MDF top is traditional and works
well. Wax the MDF well, stick it down with DS tape and replace every
half-decade.



--
Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.

On 8 May 2007 15:24:22 -0700, " wrote:

Prepping it for bench dogs

Axminster's square dogs are good, but they're 11 quid a pair and they'll
bite a plane iron if you're ever careless. Maple and a wooden holding
spring is much cheaper, lighter to drop on your foot and safer for your
tools.

On 2007-05-09 00:21:04 +0100, Andy Dingley said:

On 8 May 2007 15:24:22 -0700, " wrote:

Prepping it for bench dogs

Axminster's square dogs are good, but they're 11 quid a pair and they'll
bite a plane iron if you're ever careless. Maple and a wooden holding
spring is much cheaper, lighter to drop on your foot and safer for your
tools.

Veritas ones are nicer....

On Wed, 9 May 2007 00:51:19 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

Veritas ones are nicer....

Heretic! Behold the Unbeliever and his Round-Doggist heresies!!

On Tue, 08 May 2007 22:01:01 +0100, NoSpam wrote:

|!Anybody got any pointers to designs for woodworking benches?
|!
|!I'm sketching-out some ideas for a woodworking bench top to fit on an
|!existing sturdy metal frame. The top's going to be 1500x660 (overhanging
|!slightly at each end), a tool well at the back, a quick release vice set
|!on the front and a standard vice on the end. Probably also a removable
|!panel to drop-in a router.
|!Buying/laminating loads of Beech strips seems like too much work and
|!expense so I'm thinking of laminating 3 layers of 18mm ply (or maybe
|!MDF) and edging it with some 30mm wide Beech. There'll be a sacrificial
|!layer of 6mm MDF on the top that will get changed when necessary. Does
|!this sound sensible?
|!Any suggestions for stockists of thicker ply? or HDF, or Beech kitchen
|!worktops at a sensible price?
|!
|!Dave
|!(I'll post this in rec.woodworking too)

I bought a B&Q softwood bench at about GBP35, and assembled it with *glue*
and the screws supplied. I then *glued* and screwed plywood to the back
and sides, and added plywood doors on the front. I also improved and
strengthened the top. It is now extremely strong, and works well, for
woodworking and metalworking.
--
Dave Fawthrop sf hyphenologist.co.uk 165 *Free* SF ebooks.
165 Sci Fi books on CDROM, from Project Gutenberg
http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page Completely Free to any
address in the UK. Contact me on the *above* email address.

On 2007-05-09 01:28:58 +0100, Andy Dingley said:

On Wed, 9 May 2007 00:51:19 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

Veritas ones are nicer....

Heretic! Behold the Unbeliever and his Round-Doggist heresies!!

Ah well.....

I do agree with you about the Landis and the Tolpin books.

Generally, I've found most of the Taunton publications of high standard.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 8 May 2007 15:24:22 -0700, " wrote:

Prepping it for bench dogs

Axminster's square dogs are good, but they're 11 quid a pair and they'll
bite a plane iron if you're ever careless. Maple and a wooden holding
spring is much cheaper, lighter to drop on your foot and safer for your
tools.

I was thinking of drilling 18mm'ish holes when/where I need them, making
them blind with a plate underneath, and then using hardwood pegs.
Alternatively, boring larger circular holes (maybe 50-60mm) and fitting
hardwood inserts which would carry a hardwood square dog. I guess a
spring can be easily fitted to the square dog with a piece of ply, how
do people put springs on circular dogs?

Dave

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-08 22:01:01 +0100, NoSpam said:

Anybody got any pointers to designs for woodworking benches?

I'm sketching-out some ideas for a woodworking bench top to fit on an
existing sturdy metal frame. The top's going to be 1500x660
(overhanging slightly at each end), a tool well at the back, a quick
release vice set on the front and a standard vice on the end. Probably
also a removable panel to drop-in a router.
Buying/laminating loads of Beech strips seems like too much work and
expense so I'm thinking of laminating 3 layers of 18mm ply (or maybe
MDF) and edging it with some 30mm wide Beech. There'll be a
sacrificial layer of 6mm MDF on the top that will get changed when
necessary. Does this sound sensible?
Any suggestions for stockists of thicker ply? or HDF, or Beech kitchen
worktops at a sensible price?

Dave
(I'll post this in rec.woodworking too)


It really depends on what you are planning to use the bench to do. If
you need a surface that will remain flat and stable and stand up to
punishment, then it needs to be solid and substantial.

There are some quite reasonable ideas at plansnow,com

If you take a look at their Heavy Duty Workbench it is made in roughly
the way you are suggesting for the surface.
The key to the method (or any other bench) is having a sturdy frame
underneath the surface to support the top.



Thanks for the pointer, that's an interesting site. One of the pictures
reminded me about chisel slots at the back so probably saved me much
gnashing and wailing when I finally remembered, but after I've built it!

Dave

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Tue, 08 May 2007 22:01:01 +0100, NoSpam
wrote:

Anybody got any pointers to designs for woodworking benches?

The Scott Landis workbench book from Taunton
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1561582700/codesmiths
Don't even think about a bench until you've read this.

Thanks, I'll look for it.

.... snipped


My own bench
http://codesmiths.com/shed/workshop/bench.htm

This looks good (never seen double dovetails before).

.... snipped

Any other bench I made would have to have some sort of moving dogs in
the top surface (like Frid's tail vice). These are much more useful for
joinery than any iron vice I've ever had.

My plan is simply to put dog holes in the hardwood facings of the end
vice - these can then be used to clamp boards against dogs in the bench
- what's the advantage of moving dogs in the top surface?

I'm sketching-out some ideas for a woodworking bench top to fit on an
existing sturdy metal frame.

No such animal, if by woodworking you mean handwork, planing and
chiselling. Steel is strong, but it doesn't have the inertia, damping
and stiffness of a good wooden frame. Under rhythmic loads it'll sway
back and forth beneath you. Even if you weld stiffeners all over it,
it's still an annoyance. As a minimum, I'd use a solid sheet back, then
weld angle sections across that to stiffen it.

This is heavy "U" section with (eventually) diagonal braces, but I take
the suggestion about the solid back.


The top's going to be 1500x660 (overhanging
slightly at each end),

.... snipped

a quick release vice set
on the front and a standard vice on the end.

I've no use for an iron tail vice whatsoever. Tail vices aren't there as
vices, they're either there as front-edge notch vices (useful) or as a
moving member to work moving dogs (incredibly useful). Wooden tail vices
aren't to be used as vices on the end of the bench (you'll strain them)
and the whole idea of a "tail-mounted vice" is a red herring that has
grown up around them.

With dog-holed wooden facings it will be useful for holding boards

Probably also a removable panel to drop-in a router.

Damned annoying to work around. Router tables are easy - make a simple
top and stick it on a cheapWorkmutt frame.
http://codesmiths.com/shed/workshop/techniques/router_table/

There will be an insert plug fitted when the router isn't needed so the
bench top will be flat, the big router will spend lots of its time in
the Woodrat anyway.
Are you just thinking about strength? The hole won't be bigger than it
needs to be for a 1/2" router and will have stepped edges and a
reinforcing brace underneath - so I don't think it'll be a problem.

.... snipped

so I'm thinking of laminating 3 layers of 18mm ply (or maybe
MDF) and edging it with some 30mm wide Beech.

2 x 19mm baltic birch plies and a 4mm MDF top is traditional and works
well. Wax the MDF well, stick it down with DS tape and replace every
half-decade.

I can just get the 3 layers out of a single sheet - and size matters -
so I may as well go for the 3x18 (less offcuts to store).

I hadn't thought about waxing the MDF - why wax rather than oil or PU?
(and which wax?)

Many thanks.
Dave

On 9 May, 10:36, NoSpam wrote:

Any other bench I made would have to have some sort of moving dogs in
the top surface (like Frid's tail vice). These are much more useful for
joinery than any iron vice I've ever had.

My plan is simply to put dog holes in the hardwood facings of the end
vice - these can then be used to clamp boards against dogs in the bench
- what's the advantage of moving dogs in the top surface?

One of the things I don't like about my bench is that it only has the
usual single row of dog holes. A second set about 6" further back
would be wonderful for clamping wider and non-square pieces against
loads that are offset from the dog-line. Certainly dogs don't want to
be too close to the front edge, or every planing load is trying to
skew the workpiece sideways.

There's a lot to be said for the Veritas round-hole Wonder-dogs with
their built-in clamp screws. I would favour square dogs over round for
use in a moving vice, but those adjustable ones in a piece of thick
ply with holes in are great for clamping awkward glue-ups.


and the whole idea of a "tail-mounted vice" is a red herring that has
grown up around them.

With dog-holed wooden facings it will be useful for holding boards

It's a dog-carrier though, not a vice as such. Look at the iron screw
kits (Axminster and Veritas) and see if they can give you something
better.

It's also important to have adjustable dog spacings. A row of holes a
few inches apart gives you coarse adjustment and a bigger range than
the screw thread alone. A single dog in a vice facing doesn't have
this - you rely on the other dog moving and you're always going to be
working right on the end of the bench. I have over a foot or so of
dog holes on my front moving jaw. I've even considered putting an
asymmetrically placed dog hole in (3" and 5" apart rather than all at
4") just to get some rapid change in spacing without having to screw
the vice in and out all the time.


There will be an insert plug fitted when the router isn't needed so the
bench top will be flat,

I don't believe in convertible benches. They're always full of router
when you want to plane on them, or full of crap when you want to rout.


I hadn't thought about waxing the MDF - why wax rather than oil or PU?
(and which wax?)

You need something glue-resistant, especially on MDF as it otherwise
tends to delaminate when you pick glue splashes off it. I've never
had much luck soaking oil into MDF but wax and a hairdrier (just the
cooking Liberon Black Bison) seems to do it. I also wax all my MDF
jigs to keep the damp out.

Even better might be to make it from self-coloured MDF like
Valchromat. More resinous, harder surface, better damp and glue
resistance.