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  #1   Report Post  
AAvK
 
Posts: n/a
Default Advice on bench building please


Calling all bench builders,

I have been cutting and planing all the legs, braces and
stretchers for a very basic trestle made of douglas fir 4x4
& 4x6, I have most of the maple for the top, still need a
bit more.

There will be top side braces that support the maple top,
and lower side braces of 4x4, above the lower braces will
be front and rear stretchers of 4x6 going side to side. All
tenons will be haunched.
_____________
|
|
|
|____________
|
|
|
tenon side view |
|
|
_________________________|

I thought and thought and thought about how to join them
to the legs and had decided for double wedged tenons, then
discovered the DF is too chippy and weak as a 1" wide
tenon, so I decided to go with blind M&T sunk into 50%
the thickness of the leg using bench bolts instead.

I like the idea but, would it be worse or merely not as good,
if I went with straight-in hex-head lag bolts instead of the
bench bolts? Does one have a serious advantage over the
other or would it be an equal call? I really want the better
of the two ideas, please. TIA!

--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
http://www.e-sword.net/


  #2   Report Post  
charlie b
 
Posts: n/a
Default

AAvK wrote:

snip

I thought and thought and thought about how to join them
to the legs and had decided for double wedged tenons, then
discovered the DF is too chippy and weak as a 1" wide
tenon, so I decided to go with blind M&T sunk into 50%
the thickness of the leg using bench bolts instead.

I like the idea but, would it be worse or merely not as good,
if I went with straight-in hex-head lag bolts instead of the
bench bolts? Does one have a serious advantage over the
other or would it be an equal call? I really want the better
of the two ideas, please. TIA!

--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
http://www.e-sword.net/


Lag bolts will loosen up after a while. A nut, washers and a bolt
would work better. Or you could use barrel nuts and a bolt,
but you have to be able to drill the hole for the bolt and
the one for the screw very accurately.

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/BenchPlan.html

charliel b
  #3   Report Post  
Fourleaves
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I would stay away from sinking lag bolts into end grain and expecting great
long term durability, though it would probably work for a while, perhaps
even a long while.

Here is how I worked things out:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~fourl...s/IMG_1551.htm

And how I got the

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~fourl...s/IMG_1513.htm

I was going for solid, simple, cheap (hex head bolts are much less expensive
than the bench bolts I looked at) and relatively quick. I hit the marks I
was looking for. I hope this helps. . . Jeff.

http://www.fourleavesworkshop.com/

"AAvK" wrote in message
news:AbCMd.24575$mt.10477@fed1read03...
(snipped)
I thought and thought and thought about how to join them
to the legs and had decided for double wedged tenons, then
discovered the DF is too chippy and weak as a 1" wide
tenon, so I decided to go with blind M&T sunk into 50%
the thickness of the leg using bench bolts instead.

I like the idea but, would it be worse or merely not as good,
if I went with straight-in hex-head lag bolts instead of the
bench bolts? Does one have a serious advantage over the
other or would it be an equal call? I really want the better
of the two ideas, please. TIA!



  #4   Report Post  
alexy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"AAvK" wrote:


I like the idea but, would it be worse or merely not as good,
if I went with straight-in hex-head lag bolts instead of the
bench bolts? Does one have a serious advantage over the
other or would it be an equal call? I really want the better
of the two ideas, please. TIA!


Screws (lag bolts) into end grain tend not to be as strong. If you use
them, I'd suggest a hybrid: drill a 3/4" hole through your stretcher
in the path of the lag bolt and fill it with a 3/4" dowel, so that the
lag bolt goes through the dowel, and the dowel acts like the captured
nut of a bench bolt. I'd go with the bench bolts if I wanted to
disassemble more often than every 20 years; otherwise, I'd go with the
lag bolt and dowel. But that is intuition based on limited experience
(my SYP bench base is still very tight 10 years after assembling with
this method).
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.
  #5   Report Post  
TeamCasa
 
Posts: n/a
Default

A nut and bolt is significantly better than any lag screw. However, a
pinned tennon will also outlast your desire to own the bench.

Dave



"AAvK" wrote in message
news:AbCMd.24575$mt.10477@fed1read03...

Calling all bench builders,

I have been cutting and planing all the legs, braces and
stretchers for a very basic trestle made of douglas fir 4x4
& 4x6, I have most of the maple for the top, still need a
bit more.

There will be top side braces that support the maple top,
and lower side braces of 4x4, above the lower braces will
be front and rear stretchers of 4x6 going side to side. All
tenons will be haunched.
_____________
|
|
|
|____________
|
|
|
tenon side view |
|
|
_________________________|

I thought and thought and thought about how to join them
to the legs and had decided for double wedged tenons, then
discovered the DF is too chippy and weak as a 1" wide
tenon, so I decided to go with blind M&T sunk into 50%
the thickness of the leg using bench bolts instead.

I like the idea but, would it be worse or merely not as good,
if I went with straight-in hex-head lag bolts instead of the
bench bolts? Does one have a serious advantage over the
other or would it be an equal call? I really want the better
of the two ideas, please. TIA!

--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
http://www.e-sword.net/





  #6   Report Post  
DCH
 
Posts: n/a
Default

alexy wrote in
:

"AAvK" wrote:


I like the idea but, would it be worse or merely not as good,
if I went with straight-in hex-head lag bolts instead of the
bench bolts? Does one have a serious advantage over the
other or would it be an equal call? I really want the better
of the two ideas, please. TIA!


Screws (lag bolts) into end grain tend not to be as strong. If you use
them, I'd suggest a hybrid: drill a 3/4" hole through your stretcher
in the path of the lag bolt and fill it with a 3/4" dowel, so that the
lag bolt goes through the dowel, and the dowel acts like the captured
nut of a bench bolt. I'd go with the bench bolts if I wanted to
disassemble more often than every 20 years; otherwise, I'd go with the
lag bolt and dowel. But that is intuition based on limited experience
(my SYP bench base is still very tight 10 years after assembling with
this method).


I did the same thing with my bench, it seems to be holding up well, after
about 3 years use...and I can take the bench apart if need be to move
it... I took some pictures while the bench was being made and put them on
my site, for those interested the link is:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/c/dchaynie...ne/benchpageon
e.htm

all on one line, what the word wrap...also I think the lags will hold
better if the dowel is turned so the face grain catches the threads...

hope this helps...

DCH
  #7   Report Post  
AAvK
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Lag bolts will loosen up after a while. A nut, washers and a bolt
would work better. Or you could use barrel nuts and a bolt,
but you have to be able to drill the hole for the bolt and
the one for the screw very accurately.
http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/BenchPlan.html
charliel b



I was thinking of having my own barrel nuts made actually, I got this friendly local
machinist that would do it at a low cost. I was considering 1-1/2" diameter brass
stock or copper alloy 360, two on each end = four per 4x6 stretcher, then it got too
expensive but so are the LV sets imo, those oughta be $12.95. Grade 8 nuts.

--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
http://www.e-sword.net/


  #8   Report Post  
AAvK
 
Posts: n/a
Default


I would stay away from sinking lag bolts into end grain and expecting great
long term durability, though it would probably work for a while, perhaps even a long while. Here is how I worked things out:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~fourl...s/IMG_1551.htm And how I got the
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~fourl...s/IMG_1513.htm
I was going for solid, simple, cheap (hex head bolts are much less expensive than the bench bolts I looked at) and relatively
quick. I hit the marks I was looking for. I hope this helps. . . Jeff.
http://www.fourleavesworkshop.com/


Yes it does help, thanks. That is one of the main ideas I had in mind, very strongly,
because I had seen that on another website after seeing that other high price...
"ah-hah!" went the light bulb.

--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
http://www.e-sword.net/


  #9   Report Post  
AAvK
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Screws (lag bolts) into end grain tend not to be as strong. If you use
them, I'd suggest a hybrid: drill a 3/4" hole through your stretcher
in the path of the lag bolt and fill it with a 3/4" dowel, so that the
lag bolt goes through the dowel, and the dowel acts like the captured
nut of a bench bolt. I'd go with the bench bolts if I wanted to
disassemble more often than every 20 years; otherwise, I'd go with the
lag bolt and dowel. But that is intuition based on limited experience
(my SYP bench base is still very tight 10 years after assembling with
this method).
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.



Very interesting, thanks. I suppose if it is a hard enough wood for the dowel
it would work.

--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
http://www.e-sword.net/


  #10   Report Post  
AAvK
 
Posts: n/a
Default


I did the same thing with my bench, it seems to be holding up well, after
about 3 years use...and I can take the bench apart if need be to move
it... I took some pictures while the bench was being made and put them on
my site, for those interested the link is:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/c/dchaynie...nchpageone.htm
all on one line, what the word wrap...also I think the lags will hold
better if the dowel is turned so the face grain catches the threads...
hope this helps...
DCH


That is a beautiful piece of work and a great website, definitely bookmarked
for further study. Looks like you have got to have at least one of everything
great in tools. Too poor for that myself, but I would if I could.

In your program you should be able to reset your word wrap so it doesn't cut
off the end of your long links, I have mine set at 132 characters and they never
get cut off.

--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
http://www.e-sword.net/


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